Sales employee without HR
Hello All,
we have a scenario to map the sales employee and pay the commision.this needs to mapped without HR module.
I could see a config in S&D->Master Data>Business Partner--->Use Sales Employee without HR.
has any used this function? Pls let me know how to use 'Use Sales Employee without HR' since there is no much information in IMG on this.
Thanks in adv
Shripad
HI
Use of Sales Employee in HR and SD
When you access this in the IMG it creates two transport requests to
transport the relevant HR tables from client 000. So I added these requests
to the buffer and imported the requests into the development client.
However, still when trying to access the funtion in the IMG it asks to
create two more requests. Does anyone know what steps I need to take to get
this to work. I don't know if I'm doing something wrong on the Basis side or
whether this is an HR/SD configuration question. Running the below mentioned
report just generates the same transport requests.
This is the help text on the subject.
Use Sales Employee Without HR
In order to use the sales employee, you need an HR master record. If you do
not use the Human Resources application component (HR), you can transport
the HR tables that you need for creating, changing or displaying a sales
employee from client 000 into the target client.
Note
In order to transport the required HR tables from client 000 into the target
client, you must have two transport requests. Report RPUTRL00 is called and
updates the Customizing and system tables in separate transport requests
Report RPUTRL00 only copies the standard SAP config.
You will need some basic HR config doing (switching off unnecessary fields,
payroll area's , etc.) which shouldn't take more than a couple of hours
Personnel area's (usually same as Company code)
Personnel sub area's
Employee Group and subgroup
Action L1 may need changing (if the standard doesn't suit your requirements)
0001 Organizational Assignment
0002 Personal Data
0006 Addresses
0900 Sales and Distribution Data
0105 Communication
If you let me have your email I'll send you a document that may help, HR
mini-master was setup for 6 countries, config & testing took 2 days / 18
hours. The doc doesn't say which fields we switched off but it should give
you some idea of what was done.
Message was edited by:
SHESAGIRI.G
Similar Messages
-
Creation of sales employee without HR...?
Dear Gurus,
I have confusion in creating a sales employee without HR..
I need your suggestions and inputs on this issue..
Note-I have thoroughly searched all the forums before posting it here .I am abit confused now going through all those ..
In some forum suggested to use V+23 to create sales employee with PE partner function with account group: 0007 and some forums people are saying use PA30 OR VEP1?
Can you guide me which transaaction code i should use for sales employee creation.
For your valuable inputs will be reward and will great help for me.
Regards
VenkatHello,
You can create Sales Exployee with T-Codes VPE1 or PA30 only if you have implemented HR Module.
To create Sales Employee without HR, refer this IMG Link (& the F1 help there):
IMG - Sales and Distribution - Master Data - Business Partners - Use Sales Employee Without HR
Also refer the blow link for detailed information:
Sales employee without HR
Hope this helps,
Thanks,
Jignesh Mehta -
Sales Employee without HR - Maintaining Address Details
Hi All,
We are using Sales Employee without HR.
When the Sales Employee is linked as a partner on a Sales Document, the address details are filled with "XXXX".
Example:
Name: Graham Shanks
Street: XXXXXX
Post Code: XXXX
City: XXXXXX
I want to be able to maintain the address, specifically the email address of the Sales Employee to setup an email output condition for the order confirmation.
Please assist.
Regards,
Tim ReidHi,
Once you create sales employee without HR,then go to t-code,
PAL3 or PA30
Select infotype text ADDRESS & click on create icon at TOP of leaft hand side
Maintain the address detail and save it.
My suggestion is take help of HR consultant, he will configure infotype for address.
Kapil
Edited by: Kapildev Farakte on Jan 6, 2010 5:17 AM
Edited by: Kapildev Farakte on Jan 6, 2010 5:17 AM -
How to create sales employee without HR module
Dear Experts
IMGSDMASTER DATABUSINESS PARTNER-USE SALES EMPLOYEE WITHOUT HR
2. Define PErsonnel area (usually locations)
3. Define PErsonnel Subarea (bifurcations within loctions, may not exist but recommended to be maintained)
4. Define Employee Group ( usually Types of employment)
5. Define Employee sub group (usually used as grades)
6. Assign Employee sub groups to Employee groups
7. partner function part also i finish in sales order it shows fine
i already finish above steps and i already gone the more than 40 threads
but in t.code VPE1 system show the message
Choose an action type
can you please guide what steps i have to do further so i can create sales employeehello, friend.
try t-code VPE1 or PAL1. even without HR, you may have to define certain HR organizational units in Enterprise Structure (e.g. personnel areas and sub-areas).
regards. -
How to create Sales Employee Without HR?
Dear all,
I checked the function of creating sales employee without HR but it only generate the two request only, but i cannot create the sales employee.
Can any plz send me the details for the same.
Thx & Regards,
PMhello, friend.
try t-code VPE1 or PAL1. even without HR, you may have to define certain HR organizational units in Enterprise Structure (e.g. personnel areas and sub-areas).
regards. -
Fail to create sales employee without HR
Hi experts,
When creating sales employee, the error message below pops up. Actually, employee group Z & employee subgroup Z1 have been defined. Z1 has been assigned to Z.
Plz help solve. Many thanks.
"No entry in table T503 for Z Z1
Message no. PG301
Diagnosis
The input values must be stored in table T503. The value or values " Z Z1" are not in the table.
Procedure
Check that the entry is correct.
If necessary, notify systems administration so that the entry can be included in the table."
Edited by: Cathy on Jun 28, 2010 4:01 AMHope it is a HR config related error. Kindly check following links of understanding:
No entry in table T503
Re: No entry in table T503 for "D"
[facing T503 problem|http://www.sap-basis-abap.com/hr/sap-hr-questions.htm]
Links for Sales employee without HR:
Re: sales employee
How to get data from 3 ODS into 1 ODS?
Sales employee without HR
Thanks & Regards
JP -
How to block sales employee without enter in sales order.
Dear Guru's,
I have created sales employee code 1234 and using same in sales order with using partner function due to the some reason now I donu2019t want to book sales for same employee code 1234. Can anyone help me how to block employee code.
Regads
dharmahi
if i enter sales employee manually in sales order it should not allow me to enter and it should give message this employee in inactive status so that user will under stand accordingly.
this employee number we are entering in sales order manually it's not copying from customer. -
Employee Sales by cpoy HR information (Use Sales Employee withou HR)
Correct me if I'm wrong. I'm trying to copy the employee tables that will be used as a partner function ER in a specific customer. I know that this functionality is availible but I dont know how I can copy it. HR and SD are on 2 diffrent clients. I want to know if something must happen in HR, and what, and what do I have to do in SD inorder to copy this information.
Thank you.Check following link,
Re: fail to create sales employee without HR
I hope it can assist you.
Thanks & Regards
JP -
HI
i'm trying to create sales employee as partner function for this i'm creating sales employee master record ( we don't have HR module)
in tcode VPE1/PAL1 -
*HERE I WANT TO MAKE CERTAIN FIELDS AS OPTIONAL/supress
LIKE PERSONNEL AREA/EMPLOYEE GROUP/SUBGROUP/sub area/pay roll area ETC.*
pl suggest how this can be donehi
we don;t have HR module implemented - & i'm trying to create sales employee without HR from sales point of view.
in PAL1 some fields are mandatory i want to make them as optional
LIKE PERSONNEL AREA/EMPLOYEE GROUP/SUBGROUP/sub area/pay roll area ETC. i want to make as optional entry.
Pl suggest -
Sales employee / sales person
Hi,
I want to use the sales employee , and want report on the same. As there is a option that i can use sales employee without implementing HR. Since we Are not implementing HR.
Plz guide me as how i will use this function,
How to maintian master data for sales employee, what is configuration required the complete process.
Thanks in advanceDear Rishi,
To use Sale Employee without implementing HR Module, follow this:
You have to Maintain Partner Determination in SPRO:
SPRO --> IMG --> SD --> Basic Functions --> Partner Determination -->Set up Partner Determination
As you want it in Sales Order (say, At Header), Click:
-->Set Up Partner Determination for Sales Document Header
Select TA - Standard Order.
Now, From Left-hand side tree, click on:
Partner determination procedure assignment.
Here assign TA to your Sales Doc type (Say, OR - Sales Order).
Again from Left-hand tree, select
Account groups - Function Assignment
Here, Link all Customer Acct Groups to PE/ VE
Similarly configure Partner Determination for Customer Master & other Sales Documents.
Now in Sales Order (T. Code: VA01/ 02), to include Sales Employee:
Goto --> Header --> Partner
here, in Column Partner. Function: Select VE/ PE as defined for Sales Employee.
To Create Sales Employee / Representative - T. Code: VPE1 / PAC1
Hope this helps...
Give points if useful...
Thanks,
Jignesh Mehta -
Sales Person and Sales Commission without HR Module
Hi,
Can anyone explain me the customisation and process for sales person commission.
MahiUse T code <b>VPE1</b>. and create . hiring event.. mini
master... create sales representatives
Sales employee without HR
<b>For Commission </b>
1) Establish Partner Functions for the Commissionee(s)
Menu Path: TOOLS ->; BUSINESS ENGINEER ->; CUSTOMIZING ->; SALES AND DISTRIBUTION ->; BASIC FUNCTIONS ->; PARTNER DETERMINATION ->; DEFINE PARTNER FUNCTIONS
Transaction Code: VOPA
2) Assign the Partner Functions to Partner Procedures
Menu Path: TOOLS ->; BUSINESS ENGINEER ->; CUSTOMIZING ->; SALES AND DISTRIBUTION ->; BASIC FUNCTIONS ->; PARTNER DETERMINATION ->; DEFINE PARTNER FUNCTIONS
Transaction Code: VOPA
3) Create a Partner Procedure for the Commissionees
Menu Path: TOOLS ->; BUSINESS ENGINEER ->; CUSTOMIZING ->; SALES AND DISTRIBUTION ->; BASIC FUNCTIONS ->; PARTNER DETERMINATION ->; DEFINE PARTNER FUNCTIONS
Transaction Code: VOPA
4) Create New Customer Account Group(s) for Commission Agents
Menu Path: TOOLS ->; BUSINESS ENGINEER ->; CUSTOMIZING ->; LOGISTICS GENERAL ->; LOGISTICS BASIC DATA: BUSINESS PARTNERS ->; CUSTOMERS ->; CONTROL ->; DEFINE ACCOUNT GROUPS AND FIELD SELECTION FOR CUSTOMER
Transaction Code: OVT0
5) Assign the Partner Functions to the Customer Account Group(s)
Menu Path: TOOLS ->; BUSINESS ENGINEER ->; CUSTOMIZING ->; SALES AND DISTRIBUTION ->; BASIC FUNCTIONS ->; PARTNER DETERMINATION ->; DEFINE PARTNER FUNCTIONS ->; GOTO ->; PARTNER FUNCTIONS ->; ENVIRONMENT ->; ACCOUNT GROUP ASSIGNMENT
Transaction Code: VOPA
6) Assign the Partner Functions to the Partner Procedure for the Sales Document Header
Menu Path: Tools ->; Business Engineer ->; Customizing ->; Sales and Distribution ->; Basic Functions ->; Partner Determination ->; Define Partner Functions
Transaction Code: VOPA
7) Assign the Partner Functions to the Partner Procedure for the Sales Document Item (OPTIONAL)
Menu Path: TOOLS ->; BUSINESS ENGINEER ->; CUSTOMIZING ->; SALES AND DISTRIBUTION ->; BASIC FUNCTIONS ->; PARTNER DETERMINATION ->; DEFINE PARTNER FUNCTIONS
Transaction Code: VOPA
8) Edit the Pricing Communication Structure (KOMKAZ) to Hold the New Functions (Client Independent)
Menu Path: Menu Path: TOOLS ->; ABAP WORKBENCH ->; DEVELOPMENT ->; DICTIONARY
Transaction Code: SE11
9) Edit MV45AFZZ userexit_pricing_prepare_tkomk (Client Independent)
Menu Path: TOOLS ->; ABAP WORKBENCH ->; DEVELOPMENT ->; ABAP EDITOR
Transaction Code: SE38
10) Edit RV60AFZZ - userexit_pricing_prepare_tkomk (Client Independent)
Menu Path: TOOLS ->; ABAP WORKBENCH ->; DEVELOPMENT ->; ABAP EDITOR
Transaction Code: SE38
11) Edit MV45AFZB - userexit_new_pricing_vbkd changing new_pricing (Client Independent)
Menu Path: TOOLS ->; ABAP WORKBENCH ->; DEVELOPMENT ->; ABAP EDITOR
Transaction Code: SE38
The following code should be inserted into program MV45AFZZ to allow the system to re-execute pricing if the user makes a change to the relevant partner function (alteration, addition, deletion).
13) Add the KOMKAZ Fields to the Pricing Field Catalog (Client Independent)
Menu Path: TOOLS ->; BUSINESS ENGINEER ->; CUSTOMIZING ->; SALES AND DISTRIBUTION ->; BASIC FUNCTIONS ->; PRICING ->; PRICING CONTROL ->; DEFINE ACCESS SEQUENCES ->; MAINTAIN ACCESS SEQUENCES
Transaction Code: OV24
14) Create Condition Tables (Client Independent)
Menu Path: TOOLS ->; BUSINESS ENGINEER ->; CUSTOMIZING ->; SALES AND DISTRIBUTION ->; BASIC FUNCTIONS ->; PRICING ->; PRICING CONTROL ->; DEFINE ACCESS SEQUENCES ->; MAINTAIN ACCESS SEQUENCES
Transaction Code: V/03
15) Create an access sequence containing the new tables (Client Independent)
Menu Path: TOOLS ->; BUSINESS ENGINEER ->; CUSTOMIZING ->; SALES AND DISTRIBUTION ->; BASIC FUNCTIONS ->; PRICING ->; PRICING CONTROL ->; DEFINE ACCESS SEQUENCES ->; MAINTAIN ACCESS SEQUENCES
Transaction Code: V/07
16) Create a new condition type
Menu Path: TOOLS ->; BUSINESS ENGINEER ->; CUSTOMIZING ->; SALES AND DISTRIBUTION ->; BASIC FUNCTIONS ->; PRICING ->; PRICING CONTROL ->; DEFINE CONDITION TYPES ->; MAINTAIN CONDITION TYPES
Transaction Code: V/06
17) Add the Condition Type to the Pricing Procedure
Menu Path: TOOLS ->; BUSINESS ENGINEER ->; CUSTOMIZING ->; SALES AND DISTRIBUTION ->; BASIC FUNCTIONS ->; PRICING ->; PRICING CONTROL ->; DEFINE AND ASSIGN PRICING PROCEDURES ->; MAINTAIN PRICING PROCEDURES
Transaction Code: V/08
11) Create Commsission Report ZZCOMMISSION (Client Independent)
Menu Path: TOOLS ->; ABAP WORKBENCH ->; DEVELOPMENT ->; ABAP EDITOR
Transaction Code: SE38
Message was edited by:
SHESAGIRI.G
Message was edited by:
SHESAGIRI.G -
Sales employee incentive scheme without HR Module
Dear Experts,
My client's requirement is as below:
My client is in to trading business and he wants to starts an incentive schemes for his sales employees. Problem here is, he has not taken HR module. Can anyone please let me know, whether we can configure incentive plans and calculation of incentive through SD Module. If so, how we can do it, if not what are the alternative customizations we need to do.
Thanks & Regards,
RajeshwariGood Morning.
Its not possible to calculate the incentive scheme's for employees in SD.
One option i can suggest you here., if the incentive schemes offered are quite simple, then to calculate the incentive figure earned by each sales employee, a separate program needs to be coded by ABAPer, accordingly.
Again for this, the inputs to be taken from the sales reports., Ex- sales by each employee or collection by each employee.
I suggest you strongly to discuss in detail the incentive scheme offered. Then discuss the logic with the ABAPer to calculate the incentive percentage for each employee.
if every thing is fine to you, take a decision.
I had encountered a similar situation in my project. but in my project HR module was implemented......also the incentive scheme was very complicated in my project.
Hope, this input shall be useful to you.
Warm Regards,
Kiran.S -
Hi,
I need a report to see total sales by sales employee wise. We are using HR module and I am able to select sales employee in my sales order from the HR master. However when I run the report MCTI, I am not able to select the sales employee (no drop down available). I guess the issue is with sales employee data from sales order not getting updated in LIS. Can any one tell me the settings to update sales employee data in LIS.
GirishHi Girish,
If you run MCTI without sales employee selection (use just sales org, distr. channel or whatever), what's the result? Do you see a bunch of zeros 00000000 under the sales employee column?
In VPE3, are you able to find the sales ppl list under Personnel no. (with restriction to the relevant sales area)?
Thanks for your feedback
BR,
Zuzana -
Sales Employee Description is not following into COPA
Dear Experts
I have set sales employee as a characteristic in my operating concern that was triggered from PAPARTNER. From there I developed then run COPA report painter (KE30) for sales employee with ALV display options. In fact the report can only display sales employee code, without the description. I desperately need sales employee description in my report, based on user requirement.
Here we didn't activate HR module. In the same time SD has defined Sales Employee as Partner Function (SE) in customer master data. The Partner Function is looked up the sales employee name from HR table, PA0001 so that they can display sales employee code and name in the customer master data.
From the story above I've tried to do some ways, such as:
Changed display options from ALV to Drilldown -> with this way, sales employee description can appear from the report, but actually I just need the ALV report because of my client didn't accept the report layout except ALV. This is my big problem.
2. I found other threads with similar problem with me, then I tried to follow that instructions that will be described below:
I tried to create new char WW100 with PARVW table for sales employee then follow these steps:
Create 2 derivation rules in KEDR using table look up (table VBPA) for the same partner function
1. In one Der Rule, make the sale order item KDPOS as constant value 0000
2. In the other one, dont make it a constant....Leave it as it is
DERIVATION RULE 1
SOURCE FIELDS
VBPA-VBELN = COPA-KAUFN
VBPA-POSNR = COPA-KDPOS
VBPA-PARVW = GLOBAL-USERTEMP1 (Click on Magnifying lens.. Specify Constant = Your SD Part Function)
TARGET FIELDS
VBPA-KUNNR = COPA-WW100
DERIVATION RULE 2
SOURCE FIELDS
VBPA-VBELN = COPA-KAUFN
VBPA-POSNR = COPA-KDPOS (Click on Magnifying lens.. Specify Constant = 0000)
VBPA-PARVW = GLOBAL-USERTEMP1 (Click on Magnifying lens.. Specify Constant = Your SD Part Function)
TARGET FIELDS
VBPA-KUNNR = COPA-WW100
Unfortunately the ways above still can't solve my problem, the report still only show the sales employee code without description. At the last whether possible if i want sales employee characteristic with origin table coming from PA0001, so that data will derive from HR table? or perhaps any other solution to solve my case?
Please suggest me in detail..
Thanks a lot
Regards,
MaradonaHi Maradona,
I want a clarification - Does the value flow properly to the value field and only the description is not coming?
1. If the value flow is proper and only description is a problem, then check whether compunding has been used in KEA5 for the characteristc WW100? If yes, check the text table for WW100 and compare it with the origin table in terms of the fields in both the tables.
(My guess is that not all the compunding characteristics are available in text table)
2. If value flow is a problem, then compare SE16 and SE16N for any sales order for the denotion of partner function field PARVW. Sometimes the denotion of partner function (two character code) may vary in SE16 and SE16n.
Get back for any more query
BR
Abhi -
Delete sales employee in header level with BAPI_CUSTOMERQUOTATION_CHANGE
hi experts,
I try to delete sales employee in header level, but i always get the error message:
FB call: insufficient parameters
The sales document is not yet complete: Edit data
Sales document 0007002015 was not changed
Please give a light how to delete sales employee successfully . Thank you very much!!
My program:
REPORT z_test_change_partner .
DATA:
order_header_inx LIKE bapisdh1x,
order_header_in LIKE bapisdh1,
return LIKE bapiret2 OCCURS 0 WITH HEADER LINE,
quotation_item_inx LIKE bapisditmx OCCURS 0 WITH HEADER LINE,
partners LIKE bapiparnr OCCURS 0 WITH HEADER LINE,
partnerchanges LIKE bapiparnrc OCCURS 0 WITH HEADER LINE
order_header_inx-updateflag = 'U'.
quotation_item_inx-updateflag = 'U'.
quotation_item_inx-itm_number = '000010'.
APPEND quotation_item_inx.
CLEAR partners.
partners-partn_role = 'VE'.
partners-partn_numb = '00001000'.
APPEND partners.
CLEAR partnerchanges.
partnerchanges-document = '0007002015'.
partnerchanges-itm_number = '000000'.
partnerchanges-updateflag = 'D'.
partnerchanges-partn_role = 'VE'.
*partnerchanges-p_numb_old = '00001111'.
*partnerchanges-p_numb_new = '00001000'.
APPEND partnerchanges.
CALL FUNCTION 'BAPI_CUSTOMERQUOTATION_CHANGE'
EXPORTING
salesdocument = '0007002015'
quotation_header_in = order_header_in
quotation_header_inx = order_header_inx
SIMULATION =
BEHAVE_WHEN_ERROR =
INT_NUMBER_ASSIGNMENT =
LOGIC_SWITCH =
NO_STATUS_BUF_INIT = ' '
TABLES
return = return
QUOTATION_ITEM_IN =
quotation_item_inx = quotation_item_inx
partners = partners
partnerchanges = partnerchanges
PARTNERADDRESSES =
CONDITIONS_IN =
CONDITIONS_INX =
QUOTATION_CFGS_REF =
QUOTATION_CFGS_INST =
QUOTATION_CFGS_PART_OF =
QUOTATION_CFGS_VALUE =
QUOTATION_CFGS_BLOB =
QUOTATION_CFGS_VK =
QUOTATION_CFGS_REFINST =
SCHEDULE_LINES =
SCHEDULE_LINESX =
QUOTATION_TEXT =
QUOTATION_KEYS =
EXTENSIONIN =
LOOP AT return.
WRITE / return-message.
ENDLOOP.
CALL FUNCTION 'BAPI_TRANSACTION_COMMIT'
EXPORTING
wait = 'X'
IMPORTING
RETURN =Hi Edith,
Thank you very much for your reply.
I changed my program by following your steps in the reply. Now the BAPI is showing error messages: "Instance 7200000060 of object type PurchaseOrder could not be changed" and "Price without service not allowed".
Please refer my code below.
poitem-po_item = '0010'.
poitem-pckg_no = '0000001964'.
poitem-item_cat = '9'.
APPEND poitem.
poitemx-po_item = '10'.
poitemx-po_itemx = 'X'.
poitemx-pckg_no = 'X'.
poitemx-item_cat = 'X'.
APPEND poitemx.
Parent line
poservices-pckg_no = '0000001964'.
poservices-line_no = '0000000001'.
poservices-ext_line = '0000000000'.
poservices-subpckg_no = '0000001965'.
poservices-matl_group = '01040107'.
*poservices-delete_ind = 'X'.
*poservices-quantity = ' '.
*poservices-base_uom = ' '.
*poservices-gr_price = ' '.
APPEND poservices.
CLEAR: poservices.
Child line.
poservices-pckg_no = '0000001965'.
poservices-line_no = '0000000002'.
poservices-ext_line = '0000000010'.
poservices-quantity = '1'.
poservices-service = '000000000005000010'.
poservices-base_uom = 'EA'.
poservices-gr_price = '150'.
poservices-subpckg_no = '0000000000'.
poservices-matl_group = '01040107'.
poservices-delete_ind = 'X'.
APPEND poservices.
CALL FUNCTION 'BAPI_PO_CHANGE'
EXPORTING
purchaseorder = '7200000060'
TABLES
return = return[]
poitem = poitem[]
poitemx = poitemx[]
poservices = poservices[]
posrvaccessvalues = posrvaccessvalues[].
CALL FUNCTION 'BAPI_TRANSACTION_COMMIT'.
Regards,
Revanth
Maybe you are looking for
-
How do I use my isight camera live?
I have a 27 inch Imac. How do I use my Isight camera as a web cam? I have flashplayer 10, but it still won't work. Help?
-
when i swipe the notifcation centre downward to see calendar or reminder or weather, Iphone 4 freezes and there is apple logo and then i am back to lock scrren
-
How do I place an image and insert a different photo for the "mouse down" state?
I have placed an image within an accordian widget and when I select the "mouse down" area in the states dialog box, i click "fill" in the toolbar and insert the photo i want to display when the image is clicked but this image is "covered up" by the o
-
I have this code with an error: SELECT (CASE id_type WHEN 4 THEN companyid ELSE nric END) AS customerid FROM customer GROUP BY customerid HAVING COUNT (*customerid*) = 1 The error is at the bold word with the error: Invalid identifier. How should I r
-
Import in itunes two simphonies
I want import in itunes two simphonies (for istance Beethoven n°5) but with different conductor. Well when I try to import the second CD, iYunes tell me if I want re-write it again and so I cannot have the same music but with different conductor/orch