Sample Editor (More color please!)

The 'Sample editor' window in Logic has arguably always been it's weak spot. Unfortunately in Logic 8, it seems to have taken a further step back visually, whilst functionally it's feature set has remained stagnant for some time.
As a 'Pro' application, I would expect Logic's sample editor to compete with the likes of Peak, Recycle, Tools etc. All of these editors share great resolution, great visuals (some color!) and some excellent tools.
I'm hoping future updates (?!!) will address this & the various other issues Logic 8 still has - voice your opinions if you feel the same way...

I thought of an even more simple solution to avoid using Logic's sample editor (Logic programmers - hope you're listening!!) :
If you were able to re-size an audio track in the arrange window to fit the whole screen, you would dispense of the need to open a separate sample editor window (or for that matter, a 3rd party Sample editor).
You could even incorporate an additional menu into the arrange page for the destructive & non-destructive functions of the Sample editor (Time-Machine etc.)
The waveforms are (apparently) sample accurate in the arrange window, so I see no reason why this couldn't work in practice. Certainly it would look better (more colourful), and also offer more continuity between the file, the arrangement, & the time-line...
Jus' a thought!

Similar Messages

  • Sample editor headaches.

    i find the sample editor clumsy and frustrating...
    i have opened a garageband project into logic. now i want to move an audio part so i copy it and paste it.
    but in the sample editor, i see ExTrA audio? this must be what i had trimmed off of the beginning and DelEtEd?
    but i deleted it so why does it exist ??
    (oh yeah and before my rant; howcome if i copy an audio event and past it, then when i change the copy, it changes the original too.
    like is that what you mean by your destructive editing? yet it saves junk i want to delete???? what. its so stupid). whose idea was that. useless dumb.
    why is everything about a mac always so wierd. i only like it cos it doesnt blow up yet and my pc does.
    what is destructive editing then someone please tell me?
    because i have to say i am SICK and tired of all these "precautions" and safety features all software has now but i still lose data. these precautions ever serving me any use or save me anything... no.
    nothign but a pain and
    how much hard drive space am i going to WaSte over the Years, with all this JUNK i wanted to DELETE but i never know if its gone or just hidden from ME on MY hard drive that I went to the store and brought home and i own it, not logic and its stupid safety precautions.
    so there.
    also, having sample playback seperate from the project playback would be cool as a Non-default option.. but i think it should be more like garageband by default.
    also, if youre gonna make it tuck the trimmed pieces away why call it destructive and why not just rip of tracktion a step further and put the nifty little fader things up in the corner in the arrage area, right? cos those are cool and i use em all the time, unlike oh screensets for example.
    cos as it is.... im just frustrated and confused.
    there is audio in my project that i dont even REMEMBER RECORDING and it pops up and i have to
    STOP
    being
    CREATIVE
    and
    PRODUCTIVE
    and instead i must begin to be here askign for help and offering my constructive criticizm.
    so tell me, is this to do with importing from garageband?
    but garageband is suposed to delete what i delete too. destructive.
    so WHY am i HERE asking for help about audio i obviously wanted GONE
    so i could focus on what i WANT to hear.
    now im all like oooh, what is it?? is it important?
    is... it like... what is it? why is it there? if i get rid of it will i find out it was something i wanted to keep and not junk like i thought
    man this is so frustrating, just when your pc blows up too.
    grrr. grrr. grr. get it? boo to sample editor!
    everything else seems cool tho. im getting efficient with midi editing but
    i am almost AFRAID to even touch the sample editor, yikes.
    its gonna go wrooong and i will be like ok great leave it up to me to blow up a mac.... with all those funky comercials on tv.
    and i will accidentally delete a wicked guitar solo and it will be gone.
    but i got this junk i dont even know where it came from. boo hoo hoo hoo hoo.

    Hi,
    well, it took me some time to try and understand your actual questions...
    First of all, the concept behind the arrange window and audio editor is really very smart and "logical", but if you misunderstand this concept, all kinds of strange things start happening, because your brain and mouse clicks will speak another language than Logic Express....
    Logic Express is a high end application, for people that find Garageband too limiting. The consequence is that it's more complicated, simply because it has to do complicated things. But the guys who programmed Logic had excellent reasons to build it the way they did, believe me.
    Now, if you record something, Logic will simply make an audio file like any audio software on any computer. You'll be able to see this file in the audio bin.
    Besides that, you'll see a region appear on the track that you used to record the audio on. This region is a "building block", and it only contains a reference to the actual audio. So, if you take the scissor tool, and cut the region in 2 pieces, for instance, you get one building block that will play the first half of your audio file, and another one that plays the second half. And if you use the crossfade tool (see page 359 of the LE 8 User Manual) on a region, it will not do anything to your original audio material, but simply gradually turn down the volume. This really great, because you may want to use a whole piece of audio in one verse, and only a part of it in another. You simply copy the region, mess around with the copy, while nothing happens to the first region. That's non-destructive editing. So, most things you do with regions in the arrange window are non-destructive, and therefore not dangerous.
    Now to the Sample Editor. Everything you do hear will have an effect on any region using this audio, so this is destructive editing, and therefore dangerous. So, if you want to repeat something in your song, you almost certainly won't do it here!!! You only should use the sample editor for things that are wrong in your original recording. Suppose you played a wrong pitched note. You can use "Time & Pitch Machine" to repair this one note, and it will be the right note in all regions using this audio.
    The audio bin is the place where you can find all audio you recorded for your song. So, if you can't find back something you recorded, look there. Just a hint: give audio tracks in the arrange window a proper name before you hit the record button, and it's much easier to find your audio files back.
    Hope this helps....
    Kind regards,
    Jaap

  • Sample Editor - "sample accuracy" is a matter of opinion...

    In trying to figure out exactly what was going on with start/anchor/end points in the Sample Editor, I discovered the basic relationship between the Sample Editor and Arrange window... thought this might be useful to others.
    Basically, it's a matter of opinion whether or not the Sample Editor truly lets you make sample-accurate edits. By itself, the Sample Editor does let you move the start/anchor/end points to any sample value, and Logic will save and remember these settings, accurate to the sample.
    But, you can't rely on those sample-accurate edits when you place the region in the Arrange window. Logic always "remembers" them, but the results in the Arrange window can get sloppy.
    Bottom line: Logic forces all region start and end boundaries to rounded tick values. So, if you go into the Sample Editor and adjust the start/anchor/end by samples, it's impossible for all of these edits to get consistently represented in the Arrange window. To get that, Logic would have to allow the region start and end to be between ticks, and it won't allow that--something has to give.
    Here's what actually happens: you set the anchor with sample accuracy in the Sample Editor, then you place the region in the Arrange to be at exactly bar 5 (5 1 1 1 1), for instance. You'd expect the anchor to be at exactly bar 5, but it isn't... it's close, but what Logic actually does is line up the region by the region start marker. The region start marker never moves relative to the region's audio: when you try to put the anchor at bar 5, Logic actually slides the region to the nearest tick value--the start marker goes precisely on a tick, and the anchor ends up slightly ahead or behind the bar 5 marker.
    Now, this behavior isn't so bad in most cases--can you really hear a few samples difference between exactly where you put the anchor, and exactly where it ends up ? Almost certainly not, although I know an obsessive-compulsive post editor who isn't going to be happy when I tell him this...
    But the dark side of this behavior occurs with the region end point. Again, Logic never moves the region start relative to the region's audio--it shifts around the anchor to make the region start fall on a rounded tick. But what about the region end ? Unfortunately, even though the Sample Editor will let you put the region end anywhere you want it, and it will save the region/file that way, that region end will get shifted around to fall on the nearest tick in the Arrange.
    So, you cut a sample precisely in the Sample Editor, make sure the start and end fall on zero crossings, then you place the anchor at a transient point and spot the region in the Arrange. What actually happens is that
    1) your start region edit gets preserved
    2) the anchor gets put somewhere fairly close to the actual spot point
    3) the region end gets rounded to the nearest tick
    #1 is great, #2 probably OK, but #3 can be a problem. Your region may sound great in the Sample Editor, but it may click on the back end in the Arrange... unless the region's start and end happen by luck to be exact tick multiples of each other, the region end will get moved by a few samples, which may cause a glitch in playback.
    My suggestions:
    1) Be aware that anchor's aren't placed with sample-accuracy. You probably will never care, but it's good to know.
    2) Leave a tick or two of silence at the end of a region. If you use a Sample Editor to trim the region end precisely to a zero crossing, you'll probably get bitten when you put this region in the Arrange. Either do a destructive fade in the Sample Editor, or use the fade tool in the Arrange. (DAWs are going to have to take a few more steps forward before we can stop being superstitious about fading the start and end of every single region, even when edits are at zero-crossings. If the work is important, crossfade everything!)
    3) Apple... PLEASE, PLEASE, PLEASE revamp the Arrange window to be sample-accurate. There are so many kludgy little issues that would go away if the base timescale could be samples. Not to mention that almost every other DAW has this...
    James
    [email protected]
    Dual 1.25 G4   Mac OS X (10.4.8)  

    iSchwartz,
    Serves me right for not doing a listening test.
    Turns out that you're entirely right about what actually gets played back. I did a few tests by aligning two regions, phase-canceling them, then moving around the start, end, and anchor points.
    Sure enough, what I HEARD corresponded exactly to what I saw in the Sample Editor.
    But the Arrangement doesn't show things that way--I was looking instead of listening, and in these cases, the Arrangement can show things that are contrary to what gets played back.
    When you move that end marker to the right in the last step of your test, I'll bet the Arrange window doesn't show the little glitch that you're now able to hear. And if you take an Arrangement region that ends with a little glitch, you can remove it by sliding the region end a sample to the left in the Sample Editor, but you'll still SEE the glitch in the Arrange window. Looks like the Arrangement plays back exactly what you've got in the Sample Editor, but it DISPLAYS things rounded to the nearest tick.
    And this gets more confusing when you move around the anchor point. Trim one of your clicks so the anchor and the region start are both precisely on the transient, and move that region to a bar marker. Then look at the Arrange window at maximum zoom--you'll see exactly what you'd expect.
    But... now... go back to the Sample Editor and try moving the anchor a few samples to the right. When you go back to the Arrange window, nothing has changed--the transient still looks like it's precisely on the bar marker, while the Sample Editor shows that it's not.
    And it gets weirder... go back to the Sample Editor, and move the region start a few samples to the left. Now, when you go back to the Arrange window, what you see is exactly the opposite of what you'd expect. You'd expect the anchor to have stayed put, and the region start should have moved. Instead, the region start is still at the bar marker, but the audio inside the region appears to have moved.
    This is why I was so confused about what was going on. You're completely right about the playback--I did some tests, and all this strange behavior I'm seeing in the Arrange window, none of it makes it to playback. When the Arrange window and Sample Editor disagree, the Sample Editor seems to be ALWAYS right.
    But when you start doing sample-accurate editing with the Sample Editor, the Arrange window no longer reflects reality--region start and end markers appear to be on at rounded ticks, even though they're not, and audio will appear to be displaced within regions, even though it's actually lined up perfectly by the anchor.
    Just goes back to point #3... it's kludgy crap in the Arrangement resulting from the tick timebase. Logic 8 ?
    James
    [email protected]
    Dual 1.25 G4   Mac OS X (10.4.8)  

  • In the New group from layers, How can I get more colors on the Folders options in Photoshop CC?

    Hola
    There is any way that I can get more or make my own colors to distinguish the folders in Photoshop CC?
    Please, let me know
    Thanks

    Daniel Ulysses wrote:
    Not good
    Hope someone knows a hidden way to make more colors…
    If you're very good at writing code and willing to hack your copy of Photoshop—but, then, if you were you wouldn't be asking here, I suppose.

  • Open file in sample editor

    Hey forum,
    This is probably a super noob question, but I have a clip of a 7 bar guitar line that I want to open in the sample editor so I can reverse it. I know the default is to double-click it, but it has the arrow on the left side and when I double click it, it pulls down the only take that I did of that section (instead of opening in sample editor). I want to know how to do this for other clips with more than one take as well.
    So basically, how do I open a snippet in sample editor without double clicking on it?
    Thanks,
    Daniel

    Hey Jorge.
    Thanks for the suggestion. I've actually had to re-install the bug ridden 8.0.0 version to get it to work. Never thought i'd be saying that
    I haven't updated it yet as i need to get some work done before i waste another day trying to sort out mysterious errors.
    Thanks anyway
    Rowan

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    what level of subscription you have?i would say try to delete the site and try to create a new.
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    are you able to open the site in the sharepoint designer?
    or try to send them the private message to the support team.
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  • Sample editor 'functions' greyed out.

    Hi there,
    I'm having a problem in Logic 8 whereby all the functions in the sample editor are disabled. I'm pretty new to logic but i'm getting to grips with it, just can't figure out why i can't use any of the functions

    They are greyed out because of a possible lack of manual reading....while that's the most likely cause a secondary problem might be not applying basic computer use skills that you already know.
    In most every program what must you do to data to be able to edit?
    You have to select it... it looks like from the pic you've posted that you have not selected the audio, usually it comes up selected (darker color) when you open the sample editor.
    Either drag select the area you wish to work on or use the Apple key in combination with the A key to select all.
    This is basic editing, from a long time Logic user...trust me, reading the manuals can provide many benefits... there's always secondary information included along with the info you're looking for. Logic's manual has a large chapter on editing audio in the sample editor. It's a good read.

  • Sample editor audition button goes silent when any track is solo'd

    I've discovered that if a track in the arrange window (and others, I think) is in solo mode, it seems to override the audio audition function when I open the sample editor. This seems to be some poor heirarchical design to me because it forces me to go back to the arrange window (bye-bye sample editor!), find the solo'd track, unsolo it, move the window to hunt for the sample editor, or open another sample editor window from the track I was originally working on. A complete nuisance. Shouldn't the sample editor have priority?
    Also, the solo tool is basically worthless right now because it never starts playing at the point I click on in a region. Completely inaccurate. You certainly can't zero in on any critical audio editing with this clumsy feature. Maybe it has to do with sluggish performance due to buffer setting issues??? It's a far cry from Digital Performer, where you simply highlighted a section of a region ("soundbite" in DP) and it instantly played back as soon as you let go of the mouse regardless of any solo assignments per tracks. Plus it was dead accurate. I spent the extra 700 mammies upgrading to Logic Pro mainly for the precious "marquee tool" which does s##t in terms of selecting and copying (it splits the region after you copy a selection, then you have to undo the split). Whoops, I'm ranting. Just can't believe the agony of audio editing in this beast of a program...

    Excellent! I can't imagine how you discovered that...
    The little "1" in the parameters indicates which audio channel the sample editor plays through - you can change it to anything, but this is not saved in a song (annoyingly enough), so whilst for most people it would be more convenient to set it to track 128 or something, we have to leave it at 1 and reserve that channel for the sample editor, or keep changing it all the time.
    So it's mostly understanding of how Logic works that gets you these steps, and that comes form trial and error, experience, exploration, manual reading, and asking other people...
    Could you describe the key command set-up you mention here?
    Everyone of us here will have different requirements and workflows - I strongly recommend digging through the key commands window to see what useful things lay in store. Some things I use frequently others may have a different way of achieving, and some commands I never use are absolutely essential for others.
    The beauty and the achilles heel of Logic is that it is so configurable - great for power users, but often it leaves new users confused as they simply don't know enough to set themselves up efficiently.
    But key to efficient working with Logic are selection, navigation, zooming, screensets, linked windows (especially editor windows) and personalised key commands and autoload songs. So do explore those tools and see what they have to offer.
    The tip I mentioned here doesn't help you particularly, but there are loads of key commands that will - I'd suggest starting a separate thread with just this issue and ask how others here would handle it - you might be suprised how many different answers you get - many ways to skin the same cat in Logic
    But the audio editing in Logic still seems much more tedious than DP
    It's also tricky to make these kind of judgements when you aren't too familiar with things - you may be right on the money, but you also may just not know key concepts and workflow tips that make things much easier.
    There are plenty of new users who post along the lines of "Logic is cr.ap because..." and within a few posts it's abundantly clear that they just simply don't have a clue - I'm not implying that about you at all - I'm just simply saying that it takes time to build up workflows and explore the small little things that make or break an efficient workflow.
    So I'm not saying you're wrong, but from your posts I would also guess that there's still a lot about Logic you're not on top of that could probably make you life a lot easier - so hang around here, and hopefully you should improve some workflow habits fairly quickly...
    I hope that's been of some help. It's so much better when people control the rants, calm down, and start learning...!

  • Sample editor display jumps to file begin on zoom with large files

    Hey - does anyone else have this problem:
    When I zoom in to the max possible zoom level in the sample editor in Logic (eg to edit single samples with the pencil), in any audio file longer than 12:41, the waveform display suddenly jumps to very beginning of the file.
    It happens using either the zoom-in key, zoom slider or zoom tool. It is somewhat infuriating because I have to guess when to stop pressing zoom-in to get as close as i can without triggering the jump. (If i go one zoom level too far, I have to go back, zoom out and re-find my place and try again.)
    I did some investigation and the bug in zoom behavior starts happening with audio files a little shy of 12 min 41 sec ( 12:40.871ms to be more exact).
    Here are the results in "length in samples" of a test audio file (AIFF 24-bit Stereo, 44100Hz):
    33554453 samples and greater => sample editor jumps to beginning when zoomed in to max
    33554432 - 33554452 samples => sample editor jumps to END of file when zoomed to max (bizarre, eh? a 20-sample window in which the bug works in the OPPOSITE direction!)
    33554431 samples and less => sample editor zoom is normal and zooms in perfectly to the proper location at max zoom.
    I also tested other things like trashing my logic prefs and starting from an empty song with nothing in it - none of which make any difference. This bug is present in Logic 8.0.2 on both my Macbook Pro with OS X 10.5.7 and my Powerbook G4 with 10.4.11
    Maybe time to report this to apple - can anyone corroborate by just continually pressing your zoom-in key with the cursor in the middle of an audio file longer than 12:41 and see if the display jumps to the beginning?
    Thanks!

    bump?

  • Sample Editor - Assigning a controller to the Anchor point?

    Does anyone know if it's possible to assign a rotary controller to the anchor point in the sample editor (so that you can adjust the start time of audio or a sample in the EXS on the fly - as you can on a hardware sampler)?
    Many thanks.

    Happens regularly. I'm more often second though, because of the screenshots I add...
    ...and your reply is not parrotting, since you didn't read mine before you wrote yours...

  • Why does sample editor play through Track 1 / Ch1 by default?

    Do the controls, such as inserts & faders on the selected track effect the sample's playback?
    Why does Sample Editor use the "Ch" abbreviation when it means "Track"?
    Why play back on a track most likely used by another instrument? Shouldn't Sample Editor create its own track for playback?
    Do most people create a separate track for this purpose?
    Can somebody at Apple please force Steve Jobs to use Logic so he'll make it easier to use?
    MacBook Pro 2.33 GHz Duo, 3GB   Mac OS X (10.4.9)  

    Do the controls, such as inserts & faders on the selected track effect the sample's playback?
    Yes... anything associated with the selected audio channel will affect the sample playback. It's part of the workflow?
    Why does Sample Editor use the "Ch" abbreviation when it means "Track"?
    Because it doesn't mean track. It means Channel. The sample editor plays on the audio channel. The track you're using is tied to the audio channel.
    Why play back on a track most likely used by another instrument? Shouldn't Sample Editor create its own track for playback?
    Don't confuse tracks with channels. They are two totally different beasts here.
    Do most people create a separate track for this purpose?
    No... change the channel to a desired channel that you wish to audition your sample.
    Can somebody at Apple please force Steve Jobs to use Logic so he'll make it easier to use?
    How about we please force you to RTFM to learn Logic's workflow?
    Mastering Logic is not an overnight process.
    jord

  • No destructive editing using installed plug-ins in the sample editor.

    It is a shame that it looks like there still is no destructive editing using installed plug-ins in the sample editor. Seems very obvious to me that this feature should be included in Logic. Very disappointing. I’m assuming that you will be able to do this via Soundtrack Pro, but that’s just another layer added to the work flow.

    fermusic wrote:
    in any case there are no reason to use Soundtrack pro for make a destructive editing with AU plugins.
    While everything you say is absolutely correct, in terms of being able to do this within Logic itself, there are times when using Soundtrack Pro does make more sense for destructive printing of AU FX's.
    High pass filtering a vocal track with a lot of plosives comes to mind. It's easier to destructively apply the AU high pass filter on just the plosive syllable, or waveform in STP, than in Logic.
    Same goes for some extreme cases of De-essing.
    With STP selected as your external audio editor, it's very easy to use from within Logic. The two co-exist quite gracefully.
    I'd personally love to see Logic adapt some of STP's destructive capabilities, and I'd actually be surprised if we didn't see that at some point in it's evolution.
    But I say none of this to dismiss what you've generously offered here. The information you provided in your first post is important for the Logic novice to be aware of.

  • Wrong name in sample editor.

    I have a project where I was recording test voices for a voice over that was to appear in a TV ad.
    The client wanted 8 people to audition and the piece was 8 words which came out to around 3.5 seconds. I gave each person their own track and let them say the line over until they were either satisfied or fed up.
    After the session I began chopping the audio up, topping and tailing each take as the client wanted mp3's of all of them for the next morning for approval. I ended up with 121 takes across the 8 tracks.
    Whilst I was editing I came across a weird bug that I had never seen before or since. I double clicked on the first take to open it up in the sample editor window and did my more precise edit..... and on this went.
    At some point this stopped working and when I double clicked on a take it would open a completely different take, on a completely different track. At first all i noticed was that I couldn't hear my edit (in the arrange page). So, as a test (ready to undo) I changed gain down drastically. When I did this I noticed that a different piece of audio's waveform changed (on the arrange page) which is when I checked the name and realised this wasn't the piece of audio I had double clicked on. This behaviour continued until I restarted Logic. It was ok for a an edit or two then reverted back to this behaviour.
    Has anyone else experienced this bug? Like I said, it has never happened before or since and the only difference to my usual sessions was there being lots of small (3.5 second) regions.
    Strange and dangerous. I have reported it via Apple feedback but just wondered if anyone had ever experienced the same thing.
    Thanks for your time.

    Ahhh, another of those long standing bugs. I hadn't actually read about this one. Thanks for your reply, I'll stop worrying about template corruption and stuff now.
    Thanks again.

  • Wierd issue with Sample Editor...

    Hi again! More questions to use this program efficiently without pulling all my hair out... When I'm using the "time and pitch machine" under Factory in Sample Editor, I've run across an issue. I got a sample to loop accordingly Trimming off the rest of the song in the sample, then I Changed the BPM from about 240 to a new destination of 220 just to shake things up. When I did this, I wasn't too happy with the sound afterall, so I simply chose UNDO from the edit menu.....and now, there is an extra piece of the loop that was added to the end of the loop... that I can't get rid of! Undo can't undo? What gives?
    Secondly, It has a function to "pre listen" in the menu of the time machine... yet when I hold the mouse down to preview it... It simpy plays back the exact tempo it was originally without any change reflected. The Help file says some audio hardware it will work with... I'm using a MOTU 2408MK3, I figured this could handle a simple task. Anyone have this issue or suggest anything?
    - Thanks for all the help guys!

    logic need to improve on that, its been like this since it was first introduced
    it works well with short samples/loops and it works well with different algorithm
    so try all of them
    also you can turn your loops into apple loops, it works better sometimes like that
    the other choice is to export that loops and import it back again, so that logic can activate the follow the tempo on it
    Secondly, It has a function to "pre listen" in the menu of the time machine... yet when I hold the mouse down to preview it... It simply plays back the exact tempo it was originally without any change reflected. The Help file says some audio hardware it will work with... I'm using a MOTU 2408MK3, I figured this could handle a simple task. Anyone have this issue or suggest anything?
    that works if the sample is playing whilst you are dragging your mouse to move the blue ball around
    stash

  • LP8 with Leopard 10.5.1 - Error -36 in sample editor

    i work with a brand new Mac Pro with Leopard (updated to 10.5.1) and LP8. The biggest problem i have since yesterday is, that i cannot copy a part of a take in the sample editor and paste it into another take. This happened after i did this several times without any error, but suddenly i got only the error code -36. The malfunction is not comming when i copy something and paste it into the same take. But to paste it into another take now is no more possible. Who can help me? With this problem it is not possible for me to make recording further on. Quick help is appreciated.

    the first crashes of LP8 i had before the update to Leopard 10.5.1 while i was adjusting the key commands and i was very astonished about the crash by such a simple action. From another side i got the tip, that the problems maybe are caused by the fact, that i loaded a song from Logic 5.5 into LP8. If this is true, it would mean, that i have to create a complete new song in LP8 with all the necessary configurations in the environment, the midi routing and so on. And the second consequence is the real desaster: it is not possible to work with an older song in LP8 - and i have 3 of them! I hope that this is not the reason but from the first it is very important to know the reason for my problems, however.

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