Serious external Midi issues

Back in Logic 8, and earlier versions of Logic 9, I used to be able to just open up an external midi track, and play my keyboard out of it, but these days, the only way to hear an external midi is if I arm an audio track.... what's going on, what happened? and how can I make my keyboard sounds play just from the external midi... thanks!

Pancenter,
Yes.. I do see the occasional minor variations much like yourself when I sync up to my Oasys or more usually the Motif... to a fair sized and complicated project,,. Maybe +/- 1.. or on rare occasions +/- 2 bpm... but nothing close to the OP's +/- 5 bpm experiences...
It actually got better for me when I installed 10.8.x... along with the newest Motu drivers.. and in fact I can't remember the last time I had any unworkable issues with syncing though admittedly I haven't done that much syncing recently.
I do have a project coming up in the next 10 days.. that will require me to use the Oasys synced to Logic so I'll make a note of any issues i have and post back if any occur.
As an aside, I have recently been doing a lot of work with iPad Instruments and Arp Apps and Logic... and the sync as been rock solid over USB...

Similar Messages

Is anybody else getting external MIDI clock tempo issues using Logic Pro 9 and OSX Lion 10.7.5?

I am having really serious tempo issues when sending midi clock to any external device - The tempo wavers and alternates around 5 bpm above and below the tempo set, and to be frank is totally unuasable when trying to clock arps from hardware synths.
I have the problem both with Logic and Ableton LE, as well as through both my MOTU Ultralite and Focusrite Liquid Sapphire 56 interfaces. I am therefore presuming this is a MIDI issue with the actual computer (MacBook pro, bought new last september).
I moved to Mac from PC, so I'm not totally up to scratch with the Mac architecture yet - can anybody shed any light on why this is happening? It's driving me mad!

Pancenter,
Yes.. I do see the occasional minor variations much like yourself when I sync up to my Oasys or more usually the Motif... to a fair sized and complicated project,,. Maybe +/- 1.. or on rare occasions +/- 2 bpm... but nothing close to the OP's +/- 5 bpm experiences...
It actually got better for me when I installed 10.8.x... along with the newest Motu drivers.. and in fact I can't remember the last time I had any unworkable issues with syncing though admittedly I haven't done that much syncing recently.
I do have a project coming up in the next 10 days.. that will require me to use the Oasys synced to Logic so I'll make a note of any issues i have and post back if any occur.
As an aside, I have recently been doing a lot of work with iPad Instruments and Arp Apps and Logic... and the sync as been rock solid over USB...

Logic Pro 10.1.0 update. automation and external midi tracks issues

Hi there,
After i i installed the update I am having some issues with transferring automation to region/track and viceversa + othe issues in creating GM external midi tracks...
anybody else experiencing the same?
Marco

Yes, that behavior is really odd indeed. Never experienced that and never heard of it.
There are two possibilities:
Something Corrupted
This is a long shot, but you never know when bits get tangled up somewhere and cause the weirdest things. As Nigel pointed out, start with the Preferences file.
Another step is to log in to a different user (if possible) and play around to see if you get the same behavior. If not, then it would point to a user file on your user directory, possibly corrupted. You wouldn't still know which one, but at least you narrowed it down and can keep on looking (and hopefully eliminating)
Pilot Error
As Nigel pointed out, there could be a combination how you do the editing which we don't see at the moment. Couple of things that come to mind
Aliases: This is only thing I can think of that "remotely" delete other Events, but you don't mention that you use Aliases (or do you?)
Are you doing the edits in the Piano Roll? If you have "Selected Region" selected in the Local View Menu (instead of the "One Track" option), then the following would be technically possible. Selecting Events in a Region and then going to a different Region keeps those Events selected. If you would go to the Piano Roll and and delete the visible Events, then technically some other Events form other (selected) Regions that are "out of side" but still selected could be deleted too. This is a little bit far fetched but technically possible.
Can you "Track Protect" the MIDI Tracks and only unprotect them when you are editing? This prohibits deleting of Events in those Region manually, and hopefully also those automatic deletion. I know this would be only a "band aid" solution, but if it works to avoid having notes deleted, it gives you time to search for the real culprit.
Hope that helps
Edgar Rothermich
http://DingDingMusic.com/Manuals/
'I may receive some form of compensation, financial or otherwise, from my recommendation or link.'

Extern midi useless: miditiming in sync with audio, is it possible?

using a UAD-1 latency is a big issue here. Is it possible to have extern miditiming in sync when you use groups? With full pdc miditiming is useless, with pdc on tracks & instr works until you put some UAD plugin on a bus and compensate it with track advance to get the audio sync again; now extern midi is way early. This means that with any plugin; extern midi timing will be compromised!!!!!!!!!!
Can anyone tell me if there is a way to sync midi and audio and still use groups?
Without a workaround Logic Pro is useless. What a mess; instruments dropping out, serious miditiming issues, au validation issues... I'm getting a bit desperate here.
regards
Budy

yes, i know - that's been discussed on this forum though it is not something i feel strongly conversant, only to say that i believe there are ways round the problem.
the site is www.logicprohelp.com
and if they can't help you then no-one can.
if it were me - and it has been when remixing older cues, i have simply put a delay (or by that i mean negative delay which brings it forward) on the midi tracks.
maybe this is not the best method, but you could record a midi generated click (ie a click track with your external module as the source), and then loop it in playback against klopfgeist, adjusting the delay setting until it is tight. this may not offer sample accurate precision, but midi is not capable of sample accurate precision anyway.
there are people out there who have this sorted, and my method worked fine for me, but if you do elctronic music such as house or whatever, then you may be concerned with really really tight timing in which case you might be looking for the "recognized" solution.
have real trawl through this forum - it's been discussed.

When I try to open a project, the only option for a new track is for external MIDI device; when I try to open an audio or software instrument track, I get an error message saying that "the specified number of tracks could not be created. Reduce the n

When I try to open a project, the only option for a new track is for external MIDI device; when I try to open an audio or software instrument track, I get an error message saying that "the specified number of tracks could not be created. Reduce the number of tracks to create and try again." I didn't specify ANY number of tracks. Thanks for help!

Ah.. then I suspect you just need to go to Logic's prefs/Audio and check CoreAudio...
It has been unchecked somehow...
Also.. as an aside.. Be careful not to create such large subject names in future when posting here.. They can cause issues with replying to posts in such threads.. due to a bug in the forum software.. so please keep them short and to the point...
Cheers..
Nigel

Why does Playback stop when I have an external MIDI channel?

I finally have to try to sync up external gear with Mainstage 2.2.2. This time it's sending midi clock to an Akai MPK25. I set up the external midi instrument channel, set the channel's midi out to port 1 on the Akai, set the Akai to external clock. The Akai seems to pick up the tempo (mostly) but my Playback instances that start with Play action cut out after about 1 measure (yes they're set to Loop).
Doesn't mater which instance. The clock keeps going but there's a substantial lag to the transport controls. After a few seconds I can retrigger the Playback that stopped and then it loops as it should.
As soon as I delete the external midi strip, everything is back to normal. Has anyone else experienced this? Is it fixable? Maybe an Akai thing?
I've wrestled with MS to get it gig-worthy for a year and some new bug always seems to pop up.
System:
iMac 20" Core2Duo 2GHz, 4GB RAM

I try 2/3 things.
- monitor sleep after 1 minute
- computer sleep after 3h
- itunes playing songs
.....after a minute, monitor sleep and so does itunes....
VLC doesn't have this issu (luckyly)....

Internal/external speaker issues

I have a MacPro that is just a few months old.
Some video wants to play only through the Mac's internal speaker. As I type this I have the iPod special event from the 5th playing and it is coming through the internal speaker.
Meanwhile if I try to adjust the volume with the keyboard or Finder interface the system sound that acknowledges the adjustment plays through the external speakers as well as other system sounds. iTunes will still play MP3s/etc and most videos through the external speakers. Usually just some lower quality video will play sound only through the internal speakers.
I have run all the current Quicktime/MacOS updates. Any ideas?

Tim,
I came across this article yesterday:
http://docs.info.apple.com/article.html?artnum=300832
Your comment about quality reminded me of it.
I've had similar audio randomness, but seems to have subsided. No clue why. I've got serious kernel panic issues seperate from the audio thing, so I am following many rabbit trials in search of an answer.
Hope this is not redundant for you and is of use.

HELP! External MIDI is playing EARLY compared to the audio tracks!

Hi Guys
I have a project in L9 which has about 12 audio tracks, each running a few effects (fairly basic ones, nothing too heavy).
Tonight I am recording a rhythm part on an external MIDI device (my Kurzweil synth). I'm quantising this part to 1/8 notes, and in the piano roll editor, it's lining up perfectly after quantization.
However, when I play back the project, the MIDI is all EARLY!
I've tried soloing just the MIDI and the click, and the MIDI part runs uniformly early compared to the click track.
I believe this has something to do with the delay compensation that is in effect across all the audio channels... what's happening is that all the audio content is being delayed so all the tracks sync with each other. But for some reason, MIDI is not part of this delay compensation, and is playing in perfect time, and hence sounding early compared to the audio material.
I've done a test new project with just one MIDI track, and when quantized, it DOESN'T suffer this problem... ie, it aligns perfectly with the click track.
Is there any way to get external MIDI instruments to be part of the delay compensation process? Or is there some other solution to this issue?
Really desperate here as this has come out of the blue and I can't think of any way to solve it!
Thanks heaps guys,
Mike

yeloop wrote:
Is this something new for Logic 9?
I don't know, I have never used external MIDI with Logic (8 or 9) - but think it is new, yes.
I wonder if there's a way to set the global default for MIDI so that it always has delay compensation? I can't see why anyone would want to use an external MIDI device and not have it in perfect time with their audio material!
Yes, there is. You'll have to set it up in AMS first (choose *New Device*, and then configure the device and cable it) In Logic, you'll have to go into the Environment. You need a *Standard Instrument Object* for a monotimbral device, a, *Multi-Instrument Object* for multitimbral devices and a *Mapped Instrument object* for Drummodules. Explanation starts on pg 1082 of the LP9 pdf manual.
Once it is all setup, you can make a template of it, or you can import the Environment layer into new projects.
regards, Erik.
regards, Erik.

How to control external MIDI multi-timbre device

I have an external midi device that has distinct buttons with which I can control on/off individual sounds. The device has a single midi channel but many different sounds that can be turned on/off in any combination - i.e., I can have two or more sounds turned on which the device mixes down to its stereo outputs.
Each specific sound has a name and can also be controlled with a midi message in the form of "Bn 49 xx" (on event) or "Bn 4A xx" (off event). I would like to be able to control these sounds from logic pro.
Note that I have refrained from calling these "sounds", "patches". A fundamental difference between a patch and a "sound" as I described above is that you can only select a single patch at the time - I need to be able to turn on/off any combination of these sounds.
Hope it is clear to someone what I am trying to do... your comments are most welcome.

After some serious support from Pancenter (thanks again!), I arrived at a working configuration using Apple’s Environment editor. In the hope that my learning experience is of use to someone else, hereby a quick write up.
My objective was to control the stops (programs) of two pipe organ modules from Logic Pro 9, preferably with a nice graphic interface. The modules are broken up into 3 sections that each have a direct midi channel. I already set them up on my midi controller and could play a midi file on them just fine but not the stops. Rather than a typical synth program switch, stops on an organ can be turned on/off in any combination thereby mixing the sounds together. The documentation I had showed these midi byte sequences for turning on/off a stop:
Bn 49 rr = stop on
Bn 4A rr = stop off
with ‘n’ being the midi channel, and ‘rr’ the hex code for a particular stop. With Pancenter’s help, I started playing around with a Fader/Button 3 on the “Click and Ports” layer from the Environment (command 8). A button can be used to send a variety of midi message types, in my case I need a Control message with its channel set to the appropriate midi channel of the pipe organ module (channel 2 for me). A midi control message has the form <control byte> <byte 1> <byte 2>. The byte 1 field holds the specific control and byte 2 the value for that control.
Buttons send their max value when on (depressed) and min value when off. i.e., the value of byte 2. As you can see from the midi sequences listed above, this creates a bit of a complication in my case because the value ought to stay the same but the control (byte 1) must change.
I decided to set the button values to the midi stop I wanted to control as the min value and the max value as the stop +1. So my button out going sequences are now:
Bn 74 34    stop off
Bn 74 35    stop on   this should be changed to Bn 73 34
(Notice that 74 = 4A hex and 34 = 22 hex)
Using a transformer object right after the button, I detect the Bn 74 35 sequenc and change it to the desired Bn 73 34. As it turns out... easy as pie when you get a little help from a friend ;-)
This is the button with output to the transformer:
The inspector details for the button:
The transformer setup:
The entire pipe organ module with stops, just need to clean up the names a bit and we're done. Notice that I used a fader text object for the stop headers.
I am a 2-3 week user of Logic Pro and must admit that I am starting to be thoroughly impressed with its capabilities. The Environment editor is ahhwwsome though perhaps a bit daunting at first.   Thanks again Pancenter for your totally cool help !

Mixing when using external midi devices . . .

Hi,
This is the first time I'm mixing a project using an external midi device. Formerly, using an older version of DP, I would record each track from the midi device into an audio track before mixing because those tracks don't "bounce" when mixing. Anybody here who uses external devices do it differently?
Thanks, josf

Using the external I/O plug in you can bounce your external midi instruments to audio tracks in realtime in logic, but you have to add the New multi instrument in the environment so that it can be represented in the external destination parameter of the EXternal I/O plug in.
At least I think this is how things work. You also need an audio interface with the outs of your hardware to the ins of the inputs and the midi cables configured.
But.. I think there is a latency issue there.. anyone know how to compensate for this? Like if I bounce a track in realtime in logic.. it records the time that it takes the audio to "get into" the software.. It never bounces a track right on the beat, as if I were to bounce a track from say the EXS sampler.. When I do it inside logic it bounces it right on the beat.. with no "dead space" beforehand.. but if I use external equipment there is always a lag.. any suggestions?

External Midi Plugin and Midi Output Delay

This one is fairly esoteric but has anyone run into the following problem or have a workaround?
I'm trying to incorporate the External midi plugin into my setup so I can use the new midi plugins, but I cannot correctly calibrate my system when using it. My calibration technique invoolves setting delay for each synth to the slowest of the bunch and then compensating for all in the Sync > All Midi Out > Delay preference. However, when you use the external midi plugin this control has no effect. Running the synths as standard midi does work but then you lose the option of using the new midi plugins.
If verified, does anyone know if this issue will be resolved in an update?
Thanks,
David

Pancenter,
Thanks for replying. I haven't had internet in a couple days and I'm back on now. Time Warner Cable is sometimes unstable around my area.
Logic:
I've been trying different things for the last couple days and nothing works.
I replayed and recorded a 4 bar piano part and made sure that the hits were as close to the grid as possible. It sounded fine on MIDI Recording. But on MIDI Playback Here's what I found: The Midi data is not misplaced, it's right where it should be. But the actual sound is delayed on playback.
I have a PreSonus Monitoring Station. The outputs of the Motif go straight into the Traveler (In 5-6). The Main outputs on the Traveler go into the PreSonus Monitoring Station as well as my KRK Monitors. I control the volume from the Monitor Station.
Software Monitoring and Independent Monitoring Level are both enabled.
I don't get it...Please help.

Problem with external MIDI routing has to be MainStage 2 bug

I posted a bug the other day where I was getting occasional bogus MIDI note events in one external synth while playing a keyboard that was (supposed to be only) sending MIDI data to a different external synth.
I have now performed two experiments that would seem to indicate that the problem must be caused by MainStage 2 and not by CoreMIDI or by MOTU drivers/external MIDI interfaces.
Experiment 1:
I created a new Digital Performer sequence, enabled multi-input mode and routed one keyboard controller to one external synth and another keyboard controller to another external synth, essentially reproducing the MainStage 2 patch. Played both keyboards together for some time with no problems whatsoever. (In MainStage 2, I'd get a glitch pretty quickly)
Experiment 2: (to eliminate the possibility that Digital Performer (a MOTU product itself) wasn't doing something special)
I used Max/MSP and created two midiin/midiout connections, one representing the first keyboard controller and external synth, the second representing the second keyboard controller and external synth respectively (duh). Again, I played both keyboards for a while and everything worked perfectly, no glitches.
I have reported this to Apple several times via their feedback but have heard NOTHING back from them.
Original bug posting
(http://discussions.apple.com/thread.jspa?threadID=2137282&tstart=0)

If I understand you correctly, I think I experienced a similar problem. However, in my case, I don't have two separate midi input devices, but rather one; and two separate external devices I am wanting to control with midi.
Brief background: I use an EWI to play various softsynths & now external synths via MS2. I also route the audio from my EWI into MS2 for additional processing and I use an external effects processor (Eventide Eclipse) for additional processing and sound manipulation. I send program changes with my EWI to change patches using MS2. My EWI transmits only on midi channel 1, which MS2 is set to receive on. Also, my Eclipse is set to receive midi data on channel 5 (a method I used to keep things separate in my all hardware rig when MOTU MTP AV was my switching device).
Initially, I thought I could just have my EWI send a program change message on channel 1, and then MS2 would send a program change message to the Eclipse on channel 5, all from the same MS2 keyboard object. It worked, but with one small glitch ... after the program change happened, and I started playing my EWI, the Eclipse began receiving my midi note information which in turn caused the Eclipse to be confused and start trying to change patches, etc. I checked the keyboard object which was not supposed to transmit on channel 1 to anything external, but I could not figure out how to set it up. Note: none of my devices are set to OMNI because I learned a long time ago, that I want to control routing and specific channels ensure their separation ... or supposed to anyway.
What I ended up doing was to create another midi object (this time the little spherical thing, not the keyboard), and assigned it to transmit on midi channel 5 and not receive on any channel. This turned out to be the solution / work around for this situation.
Another problem I am having with midi control when using MS2 as a go-between, is an issue with pitch bend information getting messed up as its sent to my external synth (Yamaha VL70m). For some reason, playing the VL70m by way of MS2, causes my EWI pitch-bend data to force the VL70m pitch-bend in the permanent down position making all notes flat. My solution in this case was to set up a direct link with MidiPipe, from my EWI to my VL70m and filter out any program changes so that I can use the MS2 to send a patch change to it, but use my EWI to play it directly. It seems to work well, and my pitch-bend is back to normal, but I am not certain (and don't know how to test) if the VL70m is now getting duplicate note on/off information with the potential of a minuscule delay from MS2 being in the path as opposed to playing direct from my EWI. It seems unnoticeable to my ears, but it's in the back of my mind.
Anyway, these are some of my midi episodes and I think it's pretty clear that Apple needs to quickly address some issues about midi handling and MS2.
Hope this helps ... and maybe we can come up with some more creative ways to deal with these "undocumented features" (to borrow a saying from the Windows world).

Alignment of external MIDI events and audio

Hi,
I've been doing some careful measurements of the timing of MIDI events under Logic 8.0.2. I record a lot of external MIDI hardware, so the timing of external MIDI events and its relation to recorded audio is very important to me.
My setup is OS X 10.5.5, Logic 8.0.2., all relevant patches and updates. I'm using an RME fireface 800 as both the audio and MIDI interface in these examples.
I've created a project in which there is no plug-in of any kind: neither instrument nor effect. Even the klopgeist is gone.
My preferences settings:
Audio/Devices:
buffer=1024 samples
sw monitoring=off
indep mon level=off
I/O safety buffer=off
Audio/General:
PDC=Off (I also measured with PDC=all, to verify that it has no effect)
low latency mode=off
I create an external MIDI track of quantized whole notes: C3, playing on the first tick of each bar. BPM is 120.
I then create another external MIDI track, cable MIDI OUT to MIDI IN on the Fireface, and record the first MIDI track onto the second (i.e., loopback test). The note data is right on the money; within one tick of the original values. I set PDC to all, repeat the test, same result.
I then cable MIDI out on the Fireface to a hardware synth, and call up a patch with a sharp attack. I route the audio output of the synth to an audio input of the Fireface. I create an audio track with this input selected, and record the output of the synth. The recorded audio is early by 20ms or so -- roughly equivalent to the buffer size.
I repeat the test with PDC set to All, same result. PDC has no effect, as you would expect, as there are no plug-ins in this project.
I then set Preferences/MIDI/Sync/All MIDI Output delay to 21ms. I repeat the audio recording test, and now the recorded events are on the money.
Here are my questions. First, am I doing something wrong, or does Logic have a fundamental bug concerning the linkage between MIDI timing and audio timing?
It seems clear to me that this timing error has nothing to do with PDC. There is no "P". Right?
I thought that the RME has timestamped MIDI. The RME manual speaks of very accurate MIDI timing, and I can verify that the MIDI jitter of the Fireface is indeed low, in the 1ms neighborhood. This is borne out by the MIDI loopback test I did above. But MIDI timestamps don't mean anything if they are not correlated to the time code of the audio, haha! What am I missing here?
If timestamping the MIDI data can't work for some reason, could this problem not be solved by having Logic automatically delay the transmission of external MIDI data by an amount equal to the audio buffer size? Put differently, my solution to this problem is to set a MIDI output delay in preferences equal to the audio buffer size, i.e., 21.3ms. And this seems to work. Is that a proper solution, and if so, why does Logic not do such a thing automatically?
Thanks,
-Luddy

OK, so I just retested and here is the best part... I recorded a loop from my drum machine, cut the first note nicely to the 1 on the first bar... using a count in etc.
I played it back and looped outs 3-4 back into 1-2 on my Ensemble. I also played back the same kick on my drum machine just to check this reverse latency issue. I was not concerned with hit for hit layering accuracy. What I got back astounds me!
The "loopback" recording was spot on to the original being played out... totally locked. BUT, the one that was midi clocked by Logic and play from my drum machine came in ahead of the 1??? How is this possible when I am hearing it when monitoring this recording and it is slightly behind? RIDICULOUS! What does this mean?
Logic is NOT recording what I am hearing, but rather recording some timewarped version of it in which it places events ahead of when they happened, but ONLY on midi clocked or midi sent notes!
I have lurked here a long time and I know that there is not much known here about this issue, so before anyone tells me the typical solution I will say as I did in my last post:
I have done a ton of tests like this, I also followed the loopback testing as described on Logicprohelp.com.
Yes I tried it with all PDC modes, SW monitoring on AND off.
I am truly beginning to think that this is a major bug of some sort.
Anyone else out there with hardware that reports latency to Logic (RME, Metric Halo, and Apogee stuff are ones I know that do this) experiencing this abberation?
thanks

External Midi and Delay compensation

is there a delay compensation for the external midi devices now???

This is a long standing issue. Although Apple has given us a bass amp and a couple of thousand apple loops, they have not fixed this basic and crippling issue.
I have written to Apple about it, I have talked about it with their tech support for years... In my opinion, not addressing such issues as sync between MIDI and audio leads me to question Apple's commitment to pro users. It is a real shame

External Midi Events Playing Too Early

Hi there. Got a bit of an issue with midi timing under Logic 8, I run an Emagic AMT8 and a MTP AV as my midi interfaces but I'm noticing the midi events are playing before audio events, ie if I've got a bassline running on an plugin instrument, copy it to an external midi track and trigger a midi synth the synth is playing back earlier than plugin by about -120 ticks or whatever the delay compensation unit is in the inspector. This is global across all midi ports. I've got full plugin delay compensation turned on for the audio, my buffer is 512 (I use 2 UAD cards and thats the recommended setting)
I've hunted high and low through the manuals but can't find any parameter or reason why this would globally apply across all external midi ports, any suggestions greatfully appreciated as its driving me nuts.

Well Logic's Plug In Delay Compensation only works for the native Plug Ins not for external Midi stuff so the best thing to do is to record your external Midi as Audio data and align it with the rest of the music otherwise you'll get grey hair trying to find the correct delay offset to sync your external Midi.

Serious external Midi issues

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