Setting default cinema tools reverse telecine

Does anyone know of a way to set the default cinema tools reverse telecine to the following?
*Field 1 - Field 2*
*Style 1*
DD
I want to use the "Tools -> Cinema Tools Reverse Telecine" functionality from within Final Cut but for some reason Cinema Tools doesn't remember the settings above as the default. I noticed that it does remember the "capture mode" settings (Field 1 only, field 2 only, field 1 - field 2, field 2 - field 1), but I can't get it to remember the settings in the "Field" section. Does it even do this?
I'm shooting 24p on a Sony HDV camera and it resets the cadence on every new scene, so every clip begins with three progressive frames and then follows with two interlaced frames. I capture to Apple Intermediate Codec 60i. I've made a Compressor droplet to automatically remove the telecine but sometimes it messes up and a few resulting clips have interlacing erratically throughout. So, Cinema Tools is the best bet if I can get it to work in a batch process instead of clip-by-clip for hundreds of clips!
Any and all help would be greatly appreciated!

We'll need some more details. Where is your footage coming from? Was it originally HDCAM and downconverted to DV? Was the audio recorded straight to tape or was it synced in post? Is it consistently one or two frames out of sync or does it drift out of sync? How was it digitized? If you open the clip in Cinema Tools and step through it frame by frame do you see any interlaced frames?
There are dozens of things that can go wrong with this sort of process, so it's important to get really detailed.

Similar Messages

Cinema Tools Reverse Telecine problem-24 vs. 23.98 + sound issue

Hello again folks,
Trying to figure this all out, and thanks in advance for your input; this forum is amazing and has been invaluable!
I've been studying the FCP and CT pdf manuals and lots of links/threads here in the forum to get the proper workflow, have tried it all out, and ran into some problems:
Need to convert--sorry--REVERSE TELECINE--my captured DV 24p (captured at 29.97) footage into 23.98fps to edit in 23.98. Copied some media files so as not to ruin the originals, chose them from project bins, and sent them to CT using FCP'S "Tools>Cinema Tools Reverse Telecine" (super easy and feeling overconfident). When I checked the footage, two things were odd:
1) My new frame rate was at "24" not "23.98", which I believe I want to be working in in order to achieve my desired finished product (I'm sure I read this in the forum and links, does it matter?), and
2) for kicks, while there in Tools, I tried one clip with "Tools>Remove Advance Pulldown", which did result in the 23.98fps.
3) about 6 seconds into the new 23.98fps clip the sound disappears (I checked and the original clips have good sound throughout).
Any thoughts out there on this. Should I be reversing telecine from within CT (by importing clips), and not from FCP's easy Tools>Cinema Tools Reverse Telecine.
Any links or thoughts to clarify will be received with great admiration and thanks!
Greg
Macbook Pro Mac OS X (10.4.8) FCP ver.5.1.2. and CT ver.3.1.2
Macbook Pro Mac OS X (10.4.8)
Macbook Pro Mac OS X (10.4.8)

We'll need some more details. Where is your footage coming from? Was it originally HDCAM and downconverted to DV? Was the audio recorded straight to tape or was it synced in post? Is it consistently one or two frames out of sync or does it drift out of sync? How was it digitized? If you open the clip in Cinema Tools and step through it frame by frame do you see any interlaced frames?
There are dozens of things that can go wrong with this sort of process, so it's important to get really detailed.

TRIED EVERYTHING/NO LUCK with Reverse Telecine in Cinema Tools 29.97 to 24p

I read an article that was on Ken Stones site. It said that, basically you CAN'T
take a clip that is at 29.97 and has 3:2 pulldown in it, and get it to actual 24 progressive frames? Is this true? Has ANYONE out there actually removed pulldown CORRECTLY with footage shot at 24, then transferred to 29.97?
I've tried all options with Cinema Tools Reverse Telecine, and I always wind up with some interlacing.
My QT clip has a 3:2 cadence, one can frame through it and see this.
Am I missing something here? Does anyone know a procedure that can get me to 24 progressive frames. Is there a 3rd party piece of software out there?
Any relies appreciated.
G5 2.3 early Mac OS X (10.4.7) Cinema Tools V 3.1.1
G5 2.3 Mac OS X (10.3.8) Cinema Tools V3.1.1 QT V7.1.2 FCP V5.1.1

Well then, that is your problem. Those aren't reverse telecin-able. What are reversable are DV tapes that you captured at 29.97...in the DV/NTSC codec.
Are you working with Digital Intermediates? Or footage telecined to tape?
Typical Telecine to Tape workflow is:
Telecine to DVCAM
Lab provides DVCAM and Flex file to you.
Open Cinema Tools. Import Flex file and export batch Capture list.
Import batch capture list into FCP.
Batch Capture the DV footage.
Reverse telecine the footage with Cinema Tools.
Edit.
What exactly are you doing? Where did these files come from? What is your workflow?
Shane

Reverse Telecine Question

I'm testing "Cinema Tools Reverse Telecine" from the FCP Tools menu with NTSC DV media and related 35mm Telecine Logs (flxs). The resulting 24fps QTs show proper KeyCode info in overlays and original lab burn-ins but Video TC looses sync between overlays and burn-ins and only catch up at frame 00 of each second. I couldn't find any info about this in FCP's or Cinema Tools help files. Somehow it feels like I'm doing something wrong.
Video TC looses sync after reverse telecine while Keycode remains consistent? Any pointers are appreciated. Thanks a lot!

The video TC burn-in is 30 fps, since there was no 24-frame video to reference during telecine. The keycode is, of course, 24 fps. You now only have 24 frames of video, so the keycode is going to work right, but the video timecode rate has been converted to 24fps. You have two options. You can just ignore the difference in the frame counts (since it matches up on the 00 then you know you're fine) or you can work with a 30 fps timecode rate. Even though there are only 24 frames of video per second, the count will go up to 29. It will just skip numbers along the way in order to get there. That way it should match up with your burned-in timecode, and the actual timecode on the tapes. I think the best way to do that is to start by creating a Cinema Tools database that has the default video TC rate set to 30 NDF. Then do a batch reverse telecine on your clips from within the Cinema Tools application. I think that will create video clips with a 30 fps TC rate.

Reverse Telecine Nightmare - 16mm - Please help...

I´m working for the first time in Brazilian Cinema as a assistent editor and i`m having a serious problem with Cinema Tools Reverse Telecine.
I´ve read the manual but I can´t get any solution.
We shoot the movie in 16mm with an Aaton minima camera.
The telecine was made to dv tapes.
I´ve created a database in Cinema tools with the flex files, exported a xml to final cut and batch captured.
My problem is:
When I use the Cinema tools reverse telecine and open my clip in Final Cut (6.0.3), it still contain fields and I can´t read the letters of the window burn
The field pattern is A2 B2 C1 D1 D3 -- Field 2 only as we can read in the manual.
I´m reversing for 23.98 fps
I´ve tried with the "Standard upper/lower" checked and unchecked with no positive results... When I open in the Final Cut, in a 23.98 project, and see the clip
frame by frame, I can´t read the letters and there is fields... I´ve tried the other options too... But the pull down is always there
In page 132 of Cinema tools manual,you can read in the "Check telecine results" session ---> "each letter should be clearly legible..."
That´s my nightmare... What should I do? Can anyone give me a solution for this problem??
Thanks for reading...

Ugh - single field telecine.
I've never had to put single field video through Cinema Tools so I shouldn't be commenting - but I happen to know that another guy with a -similar- but different problem with single field telecine video in CT set his field dominance to F1-F2, and got usable video. Thought I'd mention it.
See here: http://discussions.apple.com/thread.jspa?threadID=1563046&tstart=13
Single field telecine isn't that complicated, it should be easy for CT to just remove the extra field from the sequence. Make sure you're starting on an A frame (or field, in your case, I suppose.)
Again, never done single field video in CT, so feel free to ignore me completely.

24p reverse telecine

I used to be able to reverse telecine 24p footage from HVX200 camera but now its not working and people are now telling me that it only works with 24pa footage. I used 24p workflow in the past and it worked fine. What has changed? I think I used the 24p workflow before final cut supported 24pa. I already have a whole project shot in 24p and need to reverse telecine.

workflow:
shoot with HVX200 in 1080i/24p
import/transfer P2 files into FCP
Reverse Telecine to work with 24p version of footage in FCP without interlaced frames.
problem: "cinema tools reverse telecine" under the tools menu does not work as it did with same workflow in previous versions.
Ok, so it appears that the "pro-apps update 2008-05" (which updates among other things FCP to 6.0.5) is the problem. I have decided to work in 6.0.1 where the workflow works fine. Here is my troubleshooting log:
I used FCP remover to uninstall the entire studio
installed 5.0.2 and received corrupted file message when attempting to import P2 file
upgraded to 5.0.4, P2 files imported (no log and transfer in this version) successfully with a DVCPRO HD 1080i60 compression at 29.97 fps. I applied the "Cinema Tools Reverse Telecine" tool to a selected file (one of the same files I have been working with sense the beginning of this issue and will continue to use through out this troubleshooting) and it successfully processed the file resulting in a 24fps clip with no interlaced frames. YEAH!
I used software update as far as I could with this version and the workflow was still successful.
Installed 6.0.1 from CD, the workflow was still successful except the P2 files where coming in with a compression of DVCPROHD 1080p30. I don't see a problem with this. The resulting file was still 24p without any interlaced frames. And this version also has the log and transfer feature.
I ran software update and installed "Pro-Apps update 2008-05" and "Cinema Tools update 4.2.1". So I am working in FCP 6.0.5 and the problem starts. "Cinema Tools Reverse Telecine" just simply does not work. Nor does a reverse telecine work if I go directly through Cinema tools and bypass FCP with the imported P2 files (now quicktime).
I uninstall with FCS remover again.
I install 6.0.1 from the CD and perform the "Pro-Apps update 2008-05" only which takes me to 6.0.5 again. Still no good.
I uninstall with FCS remover again.
I install 6.0.1 from the CD. I don't do any updates and the workflow works great! So I will atleast do the log, transfer, and reverse telecine in this version. In the future I will shoot in 24pa, for that seems to work fine with the same workflow in 6.0.5.
I am going to leave this post as un-resolved sense Apple still needs to fix this in future versions.

I give. No success with reverse telecine...

Here's the scenario...
I have footage that was shot on Super-8 and telecined to Mini-DV. I have no flex file, etc., and no specific cadence information.
One would assume that I could select an arbitrary frame and simple rotate through the obvious permutations (<F1-F1|F2-F1> <AA|BB|etc>) and end up with a properly reversed 24fps clips.
However, even the best results still exhibit interlacing artifacts every three frames.
I've seen it mentioned elsewhere that others have the same issue.
I'm placed a sample clip at...
http://nedron.net/av/revtc/00.dv
This is from the "master" Mini-DV tape and is about 25 meg.
Anyone with a broadband connection want to take a look and see if they can correctly reverse the telecine on this? Hopefully, using something relatively common like Cinema Tools or After Effects, etc. My hardware options are pretty limited for the time being.
-David

Try using the reverse telecine in Final Cut: Tools->Cinema Tools Reverse Telecine. I went through this with 1080i footage, not DV. Couldn't get a clean reverse out of CT directly. But this seemed to work. I suspect that FCP understands the pulldown correctly and then tells CT how to do it. But try it and see if it works for you. Just make sure you copy your original file and work on the copy in FCP, because CT will overwrite the file and there are no warnings or options. You should see the property of the clip change in FCP from 29.97 to 23.976. Then go through frame-by-frame and see if it worked.
Good luck!

FCP asking for Cinema tools application

I am trying to reverse telecine a couple of clips and FCP is asking to choose the Cinema tools application.
I selected the clips then clicked >Tools > Cinema Tools Reverse Telecine.
After this i get a pop up box asking to locate the Application.
As far as i am aware Cinema Tools does not operate outside of FCP so should i select FCP as the application?
Cheers Kev

It is part of FInal Cut Studio - of which Final Cut Pro is also a part. If you look in your applications folder, and you did a complete Final Cut Studio install, you should see Cinema Tool.app.
Have you move Final Cut Pro out of the Applications folder, or rearranged or renamed the apps from where they were originally installed?
Did you choose not to install Cinema Tools from the Final Cut Studio Install discs?
MtD

Cinema Tools doesn't recognize pulldown cadence on 24p DVCPRO 50

Hi everyone, I'm hoping someone can give me a couple suggestions on this...
I've been capturing 24p material for a documentary from different sources and with different pulldown cadences: DV @ 24p and 24p Advanced, and DVCPRO 50 @ 24p.
The extra frames from the two DV types get removed properly, but not from the DVCPRO 50. I take a clip into Cinema Tools and hit 'Rev Telecine..' (Automated so no options to choose from) and it gives me a 23.98 clip with the what should be the C frame interlaced. (A B C/D D)
It looks like CT is removing 2:3:3:2 'advanced' pulldown and not the normal 2:3:2:3, like it's reading the metadata in the clip wrong. Does anyone know a way to manually set the type of pulldown--either in Cinema Tools or within the metadata of the clip itself?
Thanks in advance,
Will
Dual 2.7 GHz G5, 4.5 GB RAM Mac OS X (10.4.2) FCP 5.03, Cinema Tools 3.03

I didn't know therre was an Automated way either until working on this project, and maybe it's a new setting in Cinema Tools 3. The manual says that CT will recognize the pulldown on the clip automatically when it was shot in a 24p video camera, that this information gets embedded in the clip. The dialog box it gives you for the automatic reverse telecine has no options at all, and all my clips started on an A frame for the possibility of doing all as a batch.
I may have found what happened, (although not how to fix it). My capture setting had Remove Advanced Pulldown checked, and the tapes were recorded with regular pulldown. In my experience with DV footage this has never mattered, it would remove it if it could and if not leave the clip alone.
It looks like there's a bug somewhere in the DVCPRO 50 capture process--that the clip is has the 24p Advanced markers embedded even though it is regular 24p, and so Cinema Tools treats it improperly and removes the wrong frames:
24p Advanced (2:3:3:2) A B B/C C D 29.97 Footage
24p (2:3:2:3) A B C/B C/D D
I I 0 I I (CT removing 2:3:3:2 Pulldown)
24p Advanced A B C D
24p *my result* A B C/D D 23.98 Footage
Has anyone else encountered this bug? Any work arounds known?
Thanks,
Will

Reverse telecine but footage too fast

Ola,
Here's my problem:
Captured 24p footage, reverse telecined it to 23.98. looks great, but 30% faster than before. Is there a way to change the speed to the original, either in Cinema Tools or FCP?
A.

I recall reading on here that Cinema Tools does not like reversing any clips larger than 5GBs. Since your 30 minute clip (6GBs DV) went through fine, it may not be the case, however it still could be. 40 minutes is 8GBs and might be too much. I had this same problem and had to perform a work around.
I exported smaller chunks of the big clips via Final Cut Pro as full quality DV movies, brought those into Cinema Tools, reversed them and then brought them back into Final Cut for editing.
That "not enough memory" error has been the bane of my existence and I still haven't figured out what exactly causes it or what the perfect solution is.

Does Reverse Telecine with orig 24fps, trans to 29.97 ACTUALY WORK !!!

I've tried all presets within the REVERSE TELECINE POP UP options. Nothing seems to bring the 29.97 footage to actual 24 progressive frames. I saw a posting on Ken Stones website that said Cinema Tools CAN'T actually do it. WHAT? Am I missing something here? What good is it (Cinema Tools) if it can't do the job correctly.
Any ideas or approaches

I've been trying to get Cinema Tools to remove 2:3:3:2 telecine from 1080i/24pA footage. I haven't tried with DV footage. Its supposed to recognize DV 24pA footage and automatically remove the pulldown, but it doesn't recognize 1080i.
I tried exhaustively to get CT to correctly remove 2:3:3:2 pulldown from 1080i footage, using manual settings, and each time it screwed up the cadence and left interlaced frames. It seems to be a lot smarter about 3:2 pulldown than 24pA 2:3:3:2 pulldown.
But I may have found a work-around.
If you bring the footage into Final Cut, and then tell final cut to have Cinema Tools reverse the telecine, it appears that some magic happens. I've tried it several times and it seems to effectively remove 2:3:3:2 pulldown, although maybe I was just lucky.
What I think is happening is that Final Cut is recognizing the pulldown cadence and telling Cinema Tools how to remove the pulldown. CT runs blindly and when it finishes the footage in FCP appears to be properly reversed. I guess the "smarts" are in Final cut and the "how to" is in Cinema Tools.
One word of warning though: If you try this, CT will overwrite the original file. And it doesn't ask if you want to do that or provide any warnings. So if it gets it wrong there is no 2nd chance. So make sure that you copy your original file and work on the copy rather than the original.
Good luck!

Using Cinema Tools in three Macs

Is it possible to use Cinema Tools in three Macs (two laptops, one tower) to distribute the workflow, specially connecting the clips in Cinema Tools, reversing the clips to 23,98, importing the reversed clips in Final Cut, create the sublips, synchronize and merged them so then get this info to the Final Cut Project in the tower so the editor could work with what he really needs and finally export the EDL to the lab?
Thanks a lot

Finally We end up working on two macs and hoping that everything will work OK for the Lab

Reverse Telecine in Cinema Tools

My 24p fcp project is finished and I need to reverse telecine it to get rid of the ugly interlacing. How do I do this?
I've tried importing the movie into Cinema Tools and it keeps crashing. When I import the whole thing as a single clip (QT Movie), the Reverse Telecine button isn't available.
Also, why can't I import an mpeg-2 clip?
I'm using Cinema Tools 2.2, in case this has something to do with it.
Thanks in advance.

Oh, and Mr. Gilman was saying that there will be interlacing no matter what if it's on DVD or Beta? Why is this?
It's what I was trying to tell you when I said If tape, you need the pulldown anyway. If DVD, the pulldown would be added by the player.
You have to understand where the interlacing is coming from. It is coming from the pulldown inserted to bring the fps from 24 to 30...
Google reveals these Pulldown explanation pages:
http://www.adamwilt.com/24p/#24pRecording
http://home.aol.com/ajaynejr/pulldown.htm
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/24p
http://www.zerocut.com/tech/pulldown.html
http://www.denecke.com/24pinfo.htm
here's a visual representation of 24P with pulldown added to be recorded on a 29.97 tape (this is how all feature films are broadcast on NTSC)
You can see from this image that two frames BC and CD are interlaced - that is, they are made up of two fields taken from different frames. When a DVD has 24fps material on it, the DVD player automatically inserts this pulldown to bring it up to 30 fps so it can be shown on a regular TV.
Now. I believe your problem may stem from an incorrect field order, but first I want to ask - When you created your export of your movie that you fed into DVDSP to make your DVD, did you try importing it into FCP and playing it back on your TV. Did it look okay then?
Patrick

Reverse Telecine Question (Cinema Tools)

Dear board members,
I have footage that was shot with Panasonic AG-HVX200 in 1080i60 (29.97fps), but with 24p function with a 2:3 pulldown. When I ingest it in FCP through Log and Transfer this footage (for some peculiar reason) shows up as 1080p30. I also need to remove pulldown to make it 24 (23,98) FPS.
My workaround is as follows:
1) I export these files from FCP as DVCPRO HD 1080i60 QT files.
2) then I send these new "masters" to Cinema Tools, where I do Reverse Telecine process.
The results looks fine, but I just want to double-check my settings in Cinema Tools, because the batch for this job contains thousands of clips and there is no room for mistake.
Reverse Telecine in Cinema Tools settings:
Capture Mode:
Field 1 - Field 2
Fields:
AA
File:
New (smaller)
Frames:
Conform to: 23.98 FPS
Standard Upper/Lower: Checked
Thank you very much for your time and (hopefully) helpful comments.
Regards,
Tim

I just did a test yesterday with MXFX software and there is a visible recompression in the resulting file. I compared the same frame (from different clips) processed through Cinema Tools and MXFX and also compared it to the original frame and MXFX clearly does something to the image (recompression or noise reduction, whatever you want to call it). Contacted them about it, they said they will look at it. Anyhow, the result is pretty visible at 200% zoom. Anyhow, that made me decide against MXFX.
Thanks for a suggestion though.

Problems with reverse telecine in Cinema tools

I am trying to reverse telecine some 24p footage I shot on a panasonic dvx. I have captured several tapes of footage in FCP 7 (as 29.97 footage to get the full data stream), then I have been sending clips to cinema tools to be reverse telecined, then bringing them back into FCP and editing on a 23.98 timeline. So far, I have used this workflow with three of my tapes and they all look fine in the end, but with one tape in particular I took all of the same steps but am having problems. When I bring clips from that tape into cinema tools and select "reverse telecine" it seems as if Cinema Tools is working and processing the footage, but at the very end the window with that clip suddenly disappears and no .rev file of the footage is created. Cinema tools remains open, only that window with the footage that was being processed is gone. I have tried recapturing the footage, renaming it, and double-checking my capture settings in FCP but have yet to figure out why these clips from this tape in particular will not be reverse telecined. Any suggestions about what I could be doing wrong?

I am almost positive I shot them the exact way, although the scene file dial on the dvx is pretty easily changed, so maybe if I bumped it during filming...
So to check, I looked at the footage before it was reverse telecined on an external moniter and it looks the same as all my other footage--with about 2 interlaced frames for every five frames. Is there another way I could check?
I'll try your compressor idea and see if that will remove the 3:2 pulldown! Thanks for the advice!

Setting default cinema tools reverse telecine

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