Setting White/Black Points using the Tone Curve
I'm trying to set white/black points using the tone curve, but when I try to slide either of the end points of the line in the tone curve tool I can't get them to move. Could those be locked somehow...?
That's what it is supposed to do. Without the sliders, you are working with the curve itself. Now you have direct control of the curve, and can drag any part of it. Have you considered setting your white and black points using the whites and blacks in the basic panel while holding down the alt/opt key? I suppose the reason it says point curve is because that icon is what you used to switch to the point curve.
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Hello,
My apologies if this is a dumb question.
I am new to Photoshop and am making a start on tidying up all my photos. I am keen to establish a good workflow but am unsure on which steps to take first.
At the moment after opening up my image in Photoshop, I first check the histogram and then if necessary use the sliders in Levels to make any adjustments.
I've started trying to set the white/black point values too but am unsure as to when to set them. Please can anyone tell me whether I should take a sample of each at the very beginning before I make any adjustments or at the very end.
Many thanks.First of all one should apply Adjustments as Adjustment Layers and the fewer the better as regards potential banding (but this can occasionally be alleviated by switching the layered version to 16bit).
It may be a matter of taste, but if one does use the white- and black point I’d rather have it used at the beginning (or farther down below as an Adjustment Layer).
Additionally I’d recommend trying to do as much of the global Adjustments as possible with a single (Curves-) Adjustment Layer. -
RGB Channel unavailable in Camera Raw under point in the Tones Curve
How can I use the the RGB channel in Camera Raw under Tone Curve?
Hi yariel83,
Make sure under the Camera Calibration tab that the Process is set to 2012. -
I am finding that the new sliders in LR4 are extremely effective. I am wondering if routine Tone Curve adjustments are helpful any more. How do you feel about using the Basic Sliders for adjustments, and not using the Tone Curve? What would I be giving up by abandoning the Tone Curve?
EricBier wrote:
Jeff,
... I am at a loss to achieve precision using the Tone Curve in Lightroom since any move affects the entire image creating undesireable effects in areas I am not focused on. If I do not go to Photoshop, I tend to use the Adjustment Brush or the Graduated Filter in Lightroom to affect different areas differently, after setting the Basic Sliders.
In general, you are right--I find it best to go to PS for localized tone curve adjustments. But there are a surprising number of special cases where judicious maipulation of the LR curve can affect only the area you want affected.
For example, its an easy matter to bring out sky detail when photographing dark aircraft from below by increasing the curve slope in the bright region and restoring the curve shape at the mid and dark tones. This basically increases sky contrast (and detail) in a way that is not possible with other LR adjustments.
For the last few years I've been teaching a Photoshop class that emphasizes curves techniques like that in PS. I'm a new LR user and was surprised at how many images can be improved even without masks and with the relatively crude curve adjustments of LR. -
Hi, I'm trying to drag the bottom point of my tone curve to kill the shadows, but it does not allow
Hi, I'm trying to drag the bottom point of my tone curve to kill the shadows, but it does not allow me to move it.. Can someone help?*
This little point curve graph does not really look like a clickable button, that's why .
In LR you can try to click/doubleclick on everything you see: text, boxes,triangles. There are some surprises!
That's without talking keyboard shortcuts !
Frans -
Which do you prefer: Increasing exposure or adjusting the tone curve?
I'd like to know how people here handle their images.
I use a Nikon D7100 in camera RAW. In camera my images are always in balance. In LR, if I select Auto Tone in Basics invariably it will adjust the exposure. I tend to adjust exposure near last in my workflow because I assume my camera had the exposure setting right. When I feel I need to adjust the exposure my first stop is the Tone Curve. I'm wondering a couple of things:
1) I know we edit by the specifics of each photo, but generally do you make adjustments to Exposure or the Tone Curve first?
2) Is there a reason or a time to prefer one over the other?
Thanks,My recommendation:
(note: I am interpreting "exposure", in your question, to mean "dynamic range at right wall of histogram", i.e. white point)
Adjust basics exposure first (before tone/point curve), but note: you may not be able to go all the way using the exposure slider. Next stop (if necessary): +whites, but note: it may not be optimal to go all the way using whites. Final stop (if necessary): cinch in the the exposure by dragging white point to the left via the point curve.
Rationale: basics have some intelligence and magic that tone curve does not. If you do tone curve first, you've missed some opportunities..
Still a begging question: how much exposure vs. whites vs. tone curve (point curve).
Note: go easy on the contrast at first, and assure blacks are sufficiently seated using blacks slider (and maybe tone/point curve).
Likewise, cranking whites up will increase global contrast, so if you take a shot at blacks and whites before contrast, then you may avoid a common mistake: radically wrong contrast due to adjusting before establishing ballpark black & white slider values.
Anyway, be aware that increased PV2012 exposure (and/or whites) is designed to be used with -highlights (note: there is no "brightness" slider), and to avoid making things too washed out (or over-jamming the highlights) it may be desirable to substitute +whites and/or +shadows for some +exposure.
Note: tones may gang up (on the right side of the histogram) in a non-optimal way when using +exposure and/or +whites, in which case it may be better to use point curve for white point adjustment (e.g. leftward drag). For example, sometimes the whites will be overly compressed if you don't bring white point in on the curve instead.
Rules of thumb:
Most of my normal photos end up with:
+exposure (to fully brighten)
+whites (for full dynamic range without excessive exposure setting)
-highlights (for dialing back +exposure and/or +whites)
+shadows (so -blacks and doesn't leave image with overly dark shadows)
-blacks (for full dynamic range without needing as much contrast)
*contrast: depends - if overly contrasty to begin with (or a lot of -blacks and/or +whites are employed), this usually gets dialed back; if underly contrasty to begin with (or +blacks and/or -whites have been employed), this usually gets bumped up.
(for abnormal photos or when desiring abnormal results - anything goes..).
Other common mistakes (in addition to wrong contrast and/or non-optimal balance between exposure & whites..):
trying to recover highlights via -whites. try -highlights (and maybe +whites) before -whites.
Warning signs:
if you have very high values for +shadows and -highlights, you may have contrast set too high.
if you have a positive value for highlights, you may have contrast/exposure/whites too low.
if you have a negative value for shadows, you may have contrast too low, or blacks/exposure too high.
Miscellaneous:
Try +clarity and +saturation (and/or +vibrance) to pump it up, if reduced contrast and/or increased exposure has left it looking a little washed out.. (likewise, -saturation if +contrast has left it looking a little too "rich"..).
You already know this, but for the sake of completeness (and other readers): you can learn by clicking 'Auto Tone' "button". You may need to dial back the exposure afterward etc. but it can be very educational none-the-less..
Of course, you can always fine-tune tone using tone curve (e.g. if image is just way overbright, like some snow shots, try tugging the midpoint downward..).
Don't forget the locals for final spot toning.
In case you haven't gleaned yet, adjusting via PV2012 is not the same as you might think at first - you don't just set exposure/black/white points and leave them, and then adjust everything else. e.g. -highlights pulls white point down more than -whites does (but +whites brings white point back up, which means you usually need to adjust in tandem..), so be prepared for a lot of back n' forth, to lessen with experience..
PS - There are tutorial videos galore, but at the risk of opposing Adobe and their sycophants, be forewarned: some are geared to how they wished PV2012 was (simple), and not to how it really is (interdependent image-dependent settings..) - examples:
top-down is touted, but that ignores black/white point issues which can lead to radically wrong contrast (and/or exposure) setting.
often, adjustment of blacks is considered optional/fine-tuning, but blacks sometimes need large value adjustment, and dramatically impacts contrast & shadow brightness..
often, adjustment of whites is considered optional/fine-tuning, but sometimes optimal toning can only be had by using a large whites value adjustment, which dramatically impacts contrast, and exposure..
cteavin wrote:
I tend to adjust exposure near last in my workflow because I assume my camera had the exposure setting right.
In case not clear yet, adjusting exposure and/or whites (and/or white point on curve) and all the rest is often done to turn an image "with potential" into a very nice image, not just to compensate for in-camera exposure imperfection. I have lots of under-exposed images that end with -exposure (granted, usually +whites), and vice-versas.. That said, if you don't know whether to crank it up or down, there is something to be said for passing until you do..
Lastly, for emphasis: exposure slider is an intelligent slider. It behaves more like normal exposure adjusters at lower values, and more like brightness adjusters at higher values (has clipping protection and highlight roll-off logic which kicks in as you crank it up..). So, it's a mistake to think of adjusting it just to make up for non-optimal camera exposure setting.
Sorry for verbose answer, but there is really no short answer which doesn't run the risk of being bad advice: best way to adjust "exposure" depends...
Cheers,
Rob -
Does the Tone Curve operate in RGB or Lab?
I was wondering if the Tone Curve of LR works in the RGB color space, or if it is designed to only affect the L component of Lab.
(Andrew_Rodney) wrote:
This new PDF might be useful to the discussion too:
http://www.luminous-landscape.com/essays/Curves.shtml
Looks like the file has been removed. Does anyone have a copy or another link?
Been fighting with some images recently, getting yellow faces when increasing contrast (curves or slider). -
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I have lost my "Basic" panel in the Develop module and can't figure out how to get it back. My right panel goes from the Histogram straight to the Tone Curve panel. My Basic panel should be below the Histogram. Any ideas how to get it back. I have even uninstalled my lightroom and reinstalled it with same issue. Help!!!
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Color option of the Tone Curve of LR 5.2?
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