Setting White Points in Camera Raw

When setting white points in Adobe Camera Raw, while holding down Alt (on a PC), are the red marks what I should look for? Because white marks also appear? Which ones are relevant for the white point?

ACR doesn’t work that way. There is an eyedropper for the overall white-balance that you can set by clicking on a relatively bright, neutral area, but there aren’t black and white-point eyedroppers. But, what is clipped black or white is determined by the output colorspace you have set at the bottom and you can get some idea of what will be clipped black and white by turning on the clipping indicators and watching for the areas you’d be eye-droppering on (the black and white patches in your grayscale) to start showing the clipping color overlay for black and white, but any further toning adjustments will move data in and out of what is darker than black and lighter than white so what is clipped for output will change as you fiddle with the various toning sliders.
The reason things are different: In PS, when you set a black-point and white-point in Levels and click Ok, the data below and above those is thrown away and that is the starting point for the next adjustment. In ACR, things are non-destructive and all the adjustments occur simultaneously, rather than sequentially as in PS, and no clipping occurs until you create the output file. This means that the pixels that are darker than your black-point and lighter than your white-point are still there, and can be moved into the black-to-white range if you do further toning adjustments. Having more headroom of the pixels that are outside the black-to-white range is good because you won’t get the posterization or banding that occurs when colors and levels are clipped after each adjustment in PS.
Can you describe what you intend your overall workflow to be on an image: how much adjusting will occur in ACR and how much, if any, might happen in PS, after the image is opened into PS from ACR, or opened from a file saved from ACR? There might be other ways to approach what you’re trying to accomplish.

Similar Messages

Setting White Balance in Camera RAW

I have heard and read (what apppears to be) contrary information about using the White Balance Tool in Camera RAW.
I have sometimes heard that I need to select a naturally white point (as opposed to a specular / highlight point); but I have also heard that I need to select a neutral gray point.
I am wondering if it's either / or and that it all amounts to the same thing.
Can anyone assist and explain the differences?

You can use any area that has no colour contend regardless of its tonal value. For instance you can use full black to se WB. Note this is not the same as setting black and white points in ACR

Change preferences for Auto black/white point in Camera RAW

Hey guys,
By hold shift and clicking on the slider for whites Camera RAW automatically sets the white point, same goes for the black. However, it always gets pushed to 255 (white).
Is there some way that you can edit this preference?

I don't know, but somebody may know for sure over in the camera raw forum:
https://forums.adobe.com/community/cameraraw

Confused on setting black point in Camera Raw 7

Hi,
I just upgraded to CS6. I was wondering how the new Blacks slider in Camera Raw 7 correlates to the same in the older version. The slider in CS5 went left to right from 0 to 100. The new slider defaults in the center and goes from -100 to +100. I never seemed to have a problem setting the black clipping point in the old version. In the new version I'm not sure if I'm getting it right. Any advice would be appreciated.
Kindest regards

Once you have some contrast added (if it's an underly contrasty shot), or some contrast removed (if it's an overly contrasty shot), then simply move the blacks slider left until you have the desired amount of black clipping. You can also move the blacks slider right if you need more light in the pic, and PV2012 will keep the blacks fairly-well seated (if its a full dynamic range shot), or it will let the black point slide up more (if original tonal distribution was not occupying whole histogram). But consider, before +blacks, whether +exposure (and maybe +shadows/-highlights) wouldn't do ya better. Note: +blacks will reduce contrast, so sometimes if you opt for +blacks you need +contrast (and/or +clarity) to go with it. Likewise, -blacks increases contrast, so you may need some -contrast to go with it (and you may find you need less clarity if you have blacks plenty-well seated).
Legend:
'+' = positive (right)
'-' = negative (left)
"plenty-well seated" = clipped enough but not too much .
"fairly-well seated" = not unclipped too much .
Clear as mud? ,
Rob

Setting White, Mid and Black Points in Camera Raw 7

I am using Camera Raw 7 and can not seem to locate where can you set the white, mid, and black points in Camera Raw with the eyedropper tool. It seems you have to create a new psd file in Photoshop to do this, which does not make much sense since it is a basic levels adjustment. I am batch editing a bunch of CR2 files, and I just need to select the black, mid and white points on a grayscale that I've shot in the images - is there a way to do this in Camera Raw 7? Thanks!!

ACR doesn’t work that way. There is an eyedropper for the overall white-balance that you can set by clicking on a relatively bright, neutral area, but there aren’t black and white-point eyedroppers. But, what is clipped black or white is determined by the output colorspace you have set at the bottom and you can get some idea of what will be clipped black and white by turning on the clipping indicators and watching for the areas you’d be eye-droppering on (the black and white patches in your grayscale) to start showing the clipping color overlay for black and white, but any further toning adjustments will move data in and out of what is darker than black and lighter than white so what is clipped for output will change as you fiddle with the various toning sliders.
The reason things are different: In PS, when you set a black-point and white-point in Levels and click Ok, the data below and above those is thrown away and that is the starting point for the next adjustment. In ACR, things are non-destructive and all the adjustments occur simultaneously, rather than sequentially as in PS, and no clipping occurs until you create the output file. This means that the pixels that are darker than your black-point and lighter than your white-point are still there, and can be moved into the black-to-white range if you do further toning adjustments. Having more headroom of the pixels that are outside the black-to-white range is good because you won’t get the posterization or banding that occurs when colors and levels are clipped after each adjustment in PS.
Can you describe what you intend your overall workflow to be on an image: how much adjusting will occur in ACR and how much, if any, might happen in PS, after the image is opened into PS from ACR, or opened from a file saved from ACR? There might be other ways to approach what you’re trying to accomplish.

Setting white point in LR

I'm almost sure I'm missing something but I cannot find a solution. I'm using LR (currently 2.2) for quite a while (since 1.2) but I simply cannot find an easy, user friedly and predictable way how to set a white point of edited pictures.
In PS, CR, DPP and most other editing SW and RAW processors, there two typical easy tools how to set the white point.
1) a white point picker which (when used) defines a desired tone as white and the relevant SW then redistributes the tones accordingly;
2) in "levels" or "curves" dialog (or their equivalents it is possible to move the "White level" treshold below which the remaining tones are redistributed accordingly - the iterface varies (sometimes it is the border of the histogram or curve diagram that can be moved (DPP), sometimes it is the slider in histogram or curve diagram setting this limit
botw ways generally lead to the same and quite uniform result. I.e. I'm usually able to get almost identical result by setting white point in PS, DPP, CR, .... and other SW by such simple operation when working over identical picture data.
However in LR it is virtually impossible to achieve similar result in LR. No white point picker, no slider enabling setting the white limit, no chance to move borders in the histogram chart. The only available tools for this purpose are
"Exposure" and "Brightness". None of them providing for the desired functionality alone - their combination giving sometimes acceptable but hardly predictable results (definitely not as predictable as achieved e.g. in PS by simple and single move of white limit slider in "level" dialogue or equivalent step in CR.
Do I really miss something important (I hope so) in this respect or is LR completly lacking this (for me really core/basic) functionality present in all other photo and RAW editting SW I know - even from Adobe?
thanks

I agree with the original poster - I find it troublesome to set the white point in an image. In a situation where a traditional (PS, Aperture) levels control would make it convenient to push a particular tone to white, I find myself going back and forth between exposure and the tone curve a fair amount. Another description of what I want, effectively, is a 'recovery' slider that goes up as well as down.
(See end of post for replies to a few specific points.)
An example:
Here is the original image, with its histogram and tone curve - black to middle gray:
I want to push the small hatch/door to white, but that also overexposes my middle grays (I haven't yet touched the tone curve):
So now I go to the tone curve, and pull down both darks and lights:
However, at this point I've lost my whites (they are not quite clipped any more); and probably more importantly, since the tone curve is at the extreme low values, I have little working room or control.
Rather than working together or providing complementary functions, in this case exposure and the tone curve, to me, seem to be fighting; it requires back-and-forth to get the desired effect.
(To be clear, most of the time - that is, when my white point starts out more or less where I want it - being able to drag the histogram and smoothly-transitioned segments of the tone curve is brilliantly easy and useful. It's specifically the exposure control's nonlinear behavior/effect that I dislike, as it makes it difficult to adjust near-white tones.)
Responding to specifics:
> Also, hold the ALT key (David Edwards)
Cool! (However, not a fix for this issue.)
> the controls themselves are not linear (Lee Jay)
> attempts to preserve highlights (Lee Jay)
> the exposure slider is almost exactly equivalent to the white point slider in Photoshop's levels/curves (Joa V. L.)
I think this is the root of the issue, for me - the exposure control is being intelligent in a way to protect hilights, which is counter to my intent. My experience leads me to disagree strongly with Joa's comment (though I would be very happy to discover I was wrong) - my problem is specifically that adjusting exposure up (brightening the image with exposure) affects tones less, the brighter they are.
> I need to decrease the Brightness (Henry_Deer)
> you may need to generate a higher-contrast tone curve and work with that (Lee Jay)
The brightness adjustment seems analogous to my use of the tone curve, though it's an alternate approach I haven't tried. However, both seem to suffer from the 'several rounds' problem.
Edited to reply to a few specific points

Can you set the curves in Camera RAW 3.6?

HI.
I'm trying to do some color correction up front in Camera RAW 3.6 so that I don't have to do it directly in Photoshop. Say if I set color samplers for my white, grey, and black points. I'd like to correct/neutralize them within the Curves tab of Camera RAW 3.6. Is that possible? If so, how?

> ... what is a good workflow for RAW? I thought I could do it all in Camera RAW.
Even with CS2, you can accomplish 90% of your workflow with ACR. For example, for ~70% of your images ACR can be 100% of your workflow, and for 20% be 95% of your workflow ... leaving as little for PS as possible. YMMV of course, but ACR 3 can accomplish a lot, but it wasn't intended to replace some of the tools in PS.
Altho I haven't yet upgraded, ACR4 is a considerable upgrade and offers many more of the tools available in PS (e.g., red eye removal). Tonal adjustments you need may be accomplished with whitepoint, exposure, blackpoint, brightness, contrast; however, they are predictable algorithms that cannot be manipulated with a curve ... altho a curve is provided for the RGB output but not as easy to use as PS's. The "Real World ACR" texts will fill you in with much of the power offered by a workflow using ACR and Bridge. A definite good read!

White Balance in Camera raw

Every time I open an image from Bridge in CS6, into camera raw the white balance always defaults to fluorescent. How can I change default opening to read as"shot as"?

Hi there! Because the forum you originally posted in is for beginners trying to learn the basics of Photoshop, I moved your question to the Camera Raw forum, where you'll get more specialized help.

No white balance in camera raw

i am trying to use iphoto instead of Photoshop to correct my raw images, but in the Adjustments pane i don't see a white balance correction. am i doing something wrong?

I looked at the Help, and it pointed me to the Eyedropper tool. That's that little icon left of the Tint in the adjust palette. It does exactly what white balance used to.

How to set white point in "Levels" - using a different photo

Hello all,
I'm taking shots of some furniture I made. I get the shot all set up and the exposure correct for what I want, then I take an 'extra' shot with a gray and a white calibration card in the scene. Now I have two identical shots except that one has the calibration cards. My question is: how to I select the white (and gray) levels from the calibration shot and then use that data to set the white (and gray) levels in the good shot. I had done this many years ago in CS3, but I don't remember the process. Any help is appreciated.
Thanks,
Kevin H.

Kevin,
this is one possible workflow:
Using the image with card:
Image > Mode > Lab
Layer > New Adjustment Layer > Curves
Apply changes as required for the card (neutralization)
Save As *.acv
Then apply this file to the photo without card.
If required convert Lab to RGB.
How to apply a complete color correction for reproduction:
http://www.fho-emden.de/~hoffmann/camcal17122006.pdf
Best regards --Gernot Hoffmann
Language problem:
Is a ColorChecker a card or a chart?
Edited:
According to
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ColorChecker
it's a chart
Edited:
Curves is much more effective than Levels.

Is it possible to set the performance in Camera Raw, like in PS? I have problems with the performance of the adjustment brush. It is a very bad workflow.

I have problems with the performance of the adjustment brush. It is a very bad workflow.

Had you specified you're on Windows, I wouldn't even have replied. I don't do windows.
Yes, it has been a waste of time for both you and me.
You don't even know how to ask a question properly and you want me to read the FAQs? Hah!
No one will take your word for "ACR latest version", and "PS CC latest VersionVersion [sic]", as many users believe they are fully updated when they are not. Exact version numbers are needed.
8 GB is considered the realistic minimum to run Photoshop CC, but it's far from optimal—on any platform. There are other factors that can be at play and which you don't specify, such as the space available on each of your hard drives, whether you have a physically separate, dedicated hard drive for Photoshop's scratch drive, what video card you have and how much VRAM does it have, what your graphics settings are in Photoshop's Preferences > Performance, etc.
That's why I had indicated a link for you to read:
Please read this FAQ for advice on how to ask your questions correctly for quicker and better answers:
http://forums.adobe.com/thread/419981?tstart=0
If you read that link in its entirety and provide the pertinent information, maybe some of the Windows experts will be able to help you out.
Now I'm out of here.

CS4 Camera RAW White Point

Setting White Point in Camera RAW 5.7 CS4
I am trying to make pictures out of scanned old slides/negatives which often have colour casts.
Some pictures do not have a suitable white spot for setting the point.
I often find that the "As Shot" or any of the default settings do not look right.
Please what is the best way to set the white point for these ?

Photoshop, or even Elements, would have more options than Lightroom for fixing colors or a color-cast in images that have not been added by the scanner, but is already in the images, themselves, a color cast usually caused by different rates of deterioration of the various pigments in the photo paper or film.
Trying the different Options in the Photoshop Levels command can be helpful.
You can tweak the RGB channels differently in Photoshop Curves.
Elements has a Remove Color Cast command that works for simple cases and is similar to the Auto WB in LR or ACR.
Sometimes you need to duplicate one of the color channels and substitute it for one of the other color channels. For example if the red is entirely faded, then duplicate the blue channel and paste it into the red channel and see how things look, or perhaps use the green channel, instead, depending on the mix of colors in the original. There are techniques for adjusting skintones at the expense of other colors in the image.
There are tutorials for fixing underwater images that would be somewhat applicable to photos heavily faded by prolonged exposure to sunlight or indoor UV sources.
Tweaking the HSL sliders in LR or ACR can be helpful if the image is mostly fixed by prior adjustments.

Setting black and white points

Dear friends,
I am shooting some pics with a "Whibal like" target card which has a white, black and 18% neutral grey shades.
In Camera Raw I I can easily correct the white balance with the provided eyedropper on the top row by clicking on the grey target.
I cannot find any way to set the black and the white points though and have to resort doing that for EACH picture in Photoshop via a levels or a curves adjustment layers.
It would be great to be able to set those in Bridge/Camera Raw so that I can then copy those settings to other similar shots.
Any ideas ? Thank you
Marco

I am having the same problem, although its now Camera Raw 7 - where can you set the white, mid, and black points in Camera Raw with the eyedropper tool. It seems you have to create a new psd file in Photoshop to do this, which does not make much sense since it is a basic levels adjustment. I am batch editing a bunch of CR2 files, and I just need to select the black, mid and white points on a grayscale that I've shot in the images - is there a way to do this in Camera Raw 7? Thanks!!

Setting Preferences in Camera RAW?

Can you tell me where to set this preference in Camera RAW, please? This note is from the Lightroom 4 ReadMe. Sory for being stupid, but I can't seem to fine prefs for "Camera RAW."
Viewing Lightroom settings in Camera Raw
Before working in conjunction with Lightroom and Camera Raw please set the Camera Raw preference to: Save image settings in: Sidecar ".xmp" files. By default Camera Raw will display the image adjustments exactly as performed in Lightroom‟s develop module.
Thanks,
ken

I have the same workflow, but I don't do anything! I don't use xmp sidecars, and LR simply transfers the raw file with whatever develop settings it has in its catalog to CS5, CS6 or Elements11. I just use whatever default settings the programs have for this, and my develop settings get transferred just fine.
Bob Frost

RAW Images Alter When Saved After Processing in CS5 Camera RAW?

Hi,
I am currently experiencing a problem in Photoshop CS5, where after processing a CR2 RAW image file in Camera RAW, whether I then decide to open the image straight into CS5, or save as a jpeg or tiff file, the image completely alters from what I was previously seeing in the Camera RAW window?
The saved jpeg/tiff, or image now shown in CS5 is now very tinted, where objects that were perfectly white in the Camera RAW window are now a dirty yellow colour.
I was just wondering if there was any advice any of you could give me as to what the problem might be?
I have made sure that both CS5 and the Camera RAW window are both set to sRGB, but it has had no effect on the problem.
Thank you in advance for any help
Russ

Color Management in Photoshop.
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Setting White Points in Camera Raw

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