Shadow slider acting odd / RED workflow

Question

I’m experiencing something odd with the shadow slider.
I’ll describe my problem, then the workflow.
I use the shadow slider to bring down the blacks, I’m watching the waveform, and when the trace gets to the 10-15ire mark, it starts moving very quickly*. What I end up getting is a bit of posterization in the shadows.
Usually, I adjust the Master lift in the Primary room first (sometimes I just use the shadow slider). I bring shadows down to 0, then tweak master gain and gamma. I experience the same thing with Master Lift.
I’ve noticed that in the [Settings 2] tab, if I change Override the header from Linear to Film, the shadows seem to behave how I am accustomed to. (with other footage, ProRes422, that I’ve graded in color)
I am working with R3D files. I’ve been experimenting with the RED tab, and nothing I do in there seems to effect the shadow.
I feel like there is something fundamental that I am missing, and I’d LOVE to know what that is.
Can anyone help? Do you need more info?
I feel like the problem lies in the header settings, but I don’t know enough about that to do something intelligently. And if I change something, what the repercussions might be.
Thanks
*I’m used to an even movement as I watch the trace move down the WFM.

Answer 1

jPo
JP Owens wrote:
any LUT (such as color space settings) that the crew may have dialed in on set, are thrown out
I thought the Primary In RED tab settings are whatever the metadata settings were when the R3D file was created... feel free to correct me on this.
I'm not certain of this... I know the proxies take on this look (sort of) as to ProRes imports via the L&T tool in FCP. However I haven't worked with much footage where they were was a DIT actually applying looks into the metadata. I've yet to look at proxies that look close to right (however I cut with them as offline 99% of the time), and when I tested the "Native" workflow and sent to Color, the look did not translate, it came in looking closer to the way raw looks in Redcine.
not sure what the crew was monitoring holds any bering on what your doing inside Color.
This is becoming a bone of contention, because users are getting confused about what it is exactly that they ARE recording.
I think the histogram is the most important thing here, and the rest of the workflow should be more akin to 35-mm production, where the DP comes to the Colorist session if he/she is so inclined. The rest should be though of as video assist, because to date the technology doesn't exist to where the look can be accurately baked into the footage and maintained via the raw file. IMHO... prores is not an acceptable workflow for online finishing, and there is always the need for final color correction.
using Camera RGB as color space and Redlog as gamma space.
Might be the "flattest' possible rendition coming into the application. But part of the charm of RED is that the R3D is a Bayer pattern rendition of whatever stimulated the photo receptor and you can re-define that as long as it wasn't oversaturated.
Explain a bit more here Jp... I thought it was a bayer pattern in it's raw state, and you debayer it into what ever color/gamma space you choose. How does the color/gamma space effect how the raw is debayered specifically, wouldn't that be handled the same way regardless, if it's based on the compressed raw codec?
In your opinion, wouldn't you want to start with the flattest rendition, rather than a 'good looking' contrasty image like 601 produces?