Skin tones in LR
Skin tones in LR often seem to look pasty and flat. I've been reading Lee Varis's book "Skin", and in it he says Caucasian skin tones should have a roughly equal amount of yellow and magenta (with yellow between 1 and 10 points higher) and about 1/4 to 1/3 the amount of cyan.
Most of the pictures I take of Caucasians and import into LR actually have yellow as the lowest value, with magenta and cyan being roughly equal. These skin tones look pale and somewhat pasty:
When I adjust this same image in Photoshop using Lee Varis's method, I get the following results:
Even though the numbers are "correct" in the second version, I think it has gone too far in the other direction.
In any event, I'd like to know 1) if others have the same problem with the way skin tones appear in LR, 2) if you have found a good way of color correcting for skin in LR without exporting to PS. I'd like to get the color as accurate as possible in LR so I don't have to edit every image in Photoshop.
Thanks.
I am a pro, I shoot primarily for magazines in my area, have been doing so for over 10 years now. I shoot A LOT of people. Here are my thoughts for you:
1) The top photo was shot in an open shade area, this creates a color balance/temperature problem. It is too blue for a daylight setting, yet not blue enough for a cloudy setting.
2)Using a whibal or other reference card for skin tones is very hit or miss. They will give you a very accurate balance of rgb values, but rarely if ever give the most pleasing skin tones. It is a good stating point however, especially for large groups with mixed ethnicity.
3) BY the numbers is a good way to go, I have used it often, since learning it way back in the 90's. However I hardly ever work with in the cmyk color space. There for I have adopted the numbers for use in an RGB space.
Here are my numbers for Caucasian skin tones. This was averaged off of 7 different samples in varying lighting conditions. This is also based on LR's rgb 0-100 scale:
Green Should be 11% lower than Red
and Blue should be 13% lower than green
Example R-------------G ----------- B
84.6---------78.1----------71.2
60.3---------52.5----------40.8 measured in shadow
78.8--------- 70.2---------60.3
87.2--------- 80.5--------- 74.9
78----------- 70.2 ---------64.7
With the exception of the shadow reading above, each came from a slightly different Caucasian skin tone....
Also skin tones are going to change wildly based on shooting conditions. You almost can not make a preset for skin tones unless you shoot in a controlled studio environment and shoot the exact same way each time.
Other wise best advice I can give it to use the above number samples as a guide and learn to "see" skin tones. After you "See" them than you will not need the numbers any longer, because you will know what feels right.
I also tend to back the vibrance slider down 1 or 2 notches if skin tone is very important to the image, but I am sure that is due to me shooting a D60
Also...Every skin color under the sun can be balanced by the numbers once you know the percentages.....experiment with white balance and hsl until you find what looks right for THAT person.
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Hello. I am writing this with the intention that it will be read by the folks at Adobe that are involved in the development of Lightroom. I'm pretty new to this forum, however, and I'm a little confused about whether this feature requests thread actually goes to the Adobe Lightroom team, considering that it is in a user-to-user forum. If there is a better avenue to get my feature request to Adobe, I would appreciate if someone could point me in the right direction.
Before I get into my request, I also want to mention that I did my due diligence and searched this thread to make sure this has not been requested before.
I am submitting this request because I do not see any useful way to measure or evaluate skin tone in Lightroom while adjusting white balance (or after adjusting white balance, for that matter). I can do a mouse-over to read RGB values, but I am not aware of any useful way to use RGB values for evaluating skin tones.
I just watched the latest George Jardine video, in which he recommends to use a calibrated monitor and move the Develop controls back and forth until your eye tells you it's correctly adjusted. I enjoyed this video, and I have found that this generally works well for me for tone balance, but I believe an additional tool for measuring or evaluating skin tones would benefit the Lightroom workflow as I will explain below.
I believe that many serious photographers, pro and amateur alike, routinely use the eyedropper in Photoshop for reading CMYK values to confirm the skin tones in their work. Even if they feel like they can usually eyeball pretty well, they find they get greater consistency when they use the eyedropper.
Now I'm not saying that Lightroom necessarily needs CMYK support. Photoshop Elements, for example has a skin tone adjustment even though it doesn't have CMYK support. And I'm also not suggesting that Lightroom necessarily needs skin tone sliders like Photoshop Elements. I'm just suggesting that the Lightroom workflow would benefit from some kind of tool for evaluating skin tone while or after adjustments are being made in the Develop Module. I would like to leave it up to Lightroom to decide exactly how to implement this.
The only way I currently see to do adjust while measuring skin tones is to open the file in Photoshop, make adjustments, and save. Even if there is a way to do this with ACR and have the adjustments saved in the sidecar or in the DNG, it still seems like a time-comsuming and unnecessary step for my workflow.
Now this request is predicated on the assumption that evaluting skin tone is fundamental enough for a basic workflow that it should be included in Lightroom. In my opinion it is, and that is why I am making this feature request. I'm sure that some might not need it for their workflow, but it seems to me that this would be a valuable feature to a great many Lightroom users.
Thanks for lending your ear, Adobe. I look forward to ALL your future versions of Lightroom, and I hope that skin tone evaluation/measurement is included in one of them.
Regards,
MikeYour post seems to assume that Lightroom is a tool for travel/landscape photography, and other types of photography (e.g., portrait/fashion) should be supported by a "specialized add-on module". I have to disagree with you on that point. Considering many of the examples on the Lightroom marketing are fashion shoots, I would think that they considers portrait/fashion photographers to be an important part of their target audience. They are not a fringe group of specialists.
I'm sure that portrait/fashion photographers would feel the same way about a Lightroom capability that primarily benefits the workflow of a travel/landscape photographer, i.e., when I do do some landscape work, I just edit in Photoshop. But you wouldn't agree to that, would you?
Skin tone measurement can be an incredibly easy tool to implement. It can be something as simple as showing the CMY values alongside the RGB values during a mouseover. Keep in mind, I'm talking about CMY not CMYK, so there should be no need to worry about what ICC profile to use. RGB to CMY is a straightforward transformation. It's embarassingly simple.
There are other ways Adobe can implement skin tone management that would be more powerful but a little more complicated. Those would be great too.
Anyway, thanks for the link to the Adobe feature request page! I will use it.
Regards,
Mike -
Skin Tones Look Wrong When Printing From iPhoto
Hi
I'm having trouble getting the caucasian skin tones to look right on photos printed with my Epson Stylus C86 printer on Epson Premium Semigloss paper. They look too pinky/purple when compared with the screen of the Sony DSC camera I shot them with and also my iMac's monitor. They just look wrong as though the subjects have a combination of bad sunburn, high blood pressure and are blushing at the same time!
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3. Selected the Use ColorSync option when printing from iPhoto's print dialogue box.
These made no difference to the default behaviour i.e. same color problems.
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TD -
Changing skin tones with adjustment layer fails
Hi,
I am running PS CC 2014 and all I want to do is to adjust a skin tone to match it to the rest of the bodys skin color.
I have watched some videos on YouTube but my PS doesnt seem to work that way and I wonder why.
My workflow:
Copy background layer.
Quick select area of body where skin tone has to be changed
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Now create adjustment layer with gradiation curve
Select with double click midtone pipette and select one point of the "good skin tone" (also pressing CTRL at the same time when selecting it)
Confirm with OK.
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Thx.
Arnold.For what it's worth: I have found that when sculptural modeling is involved, such as the in the hand, working with Curves in LAB (where tone is discrete from color) produces the color change more naturally and provides greater control over local contrast. You may want to consider that alternate approach. In this sample, the left forearm provided the reference color and I chose to lighten the tonal scale a bit.
One off-topic comment: A shorter than normal focal length lens creates a foreshortening that makes near objects disproportionately large in relation to the rest of the object or scene. In this instance, consider its effect on the hand-head sizes. I would suggest that a focal length at least 1 1/2 times normal would be more appropriate.
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I want to color correct a shot that is very blue/ magenta.
I would like the skin tones to be less magenta and more orange/yellow.
I get the best results by adding yellow on the Midtones and Shadows.
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I want to color correct a shot that is very blue/ magenta.
I would like the skin tones to be less magenta and more orange/yellow.
I get the best results by adding yellow on the Midtones and Shadows.
I'm wondering if it's the right thing to do...
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Oil Paint 13.0
OpenEXR 13.0
Paint Daubs 13.0
Palette Knife 13.0
Patchwork 13.0
Paths to Illustrator 13.0
PCX 13.0 (13.0 20120305.m.415 2012/03/05:21:00:00)
Photocopy 13.0
Photoshop 3D Engine 13.0 (13.0 20120305.m.415 2012/03/05:21:00:00)
Picture Package Filter 13.0 (13.0 20120305.m.415 2012/03/05:21:00:00)
Pinch 13.0
Pixar 13.0 (13.0 20120305.m.415 2012/03/05:21:00:00)
Plaster 13.0
Plastic Wrap 13.0
PNG 13.0
Pointillize 13.0
Polar Coordinates 13.0
Portable Bit Map 13.0 (13.0 20120305.m.415 2012/03/05:21:00:00)
Poster Edges 13.0
Radial Blur 13.0
Radiance 13.0 (13.0 20120305.m.415 2012/03/05:21:00:00)
Range 13.0 (13.0 20120305.m.415 2012/03/05:21:00:00)
Read Watermark 4.0
Reticulation 13.0
Ripple 13.0
Rough Pastels 13.0
Save for Web 13.0
ScriptingSupport 13.0
Shear 13.0
Skewness 13.0 (13.0 20120305.m.415 2012/03/05:21:00:00)
Smart Blur 13.0
Smudge Stick 13.0
Solarize 13.0 (13.0 20120305.m.415 2012/03/05:21:00:00)
Spatter 13.0
Spherize 13.0
Sponge 13.0
Sprayed Strokes 13.0
Stained Glass 13.0
Stamp 13.0
Standard Deviation 13.0 (13.0 20120305.m.415 2012/03/05:21:00:00)
Sumi-e 13.0
Summation 13.0 (13.0 20120305.m.415 2012/03/05:21:00:00)
Targa 13.0
Texturizer 13.0
Tiles 13.0
Torn Edges 13.0
Twirl 13.0
U3D 13.0 (13.0 20120305.m.415 2012/03/05:21:00:00)
Underpainting 13.0
Vanishing Point 13.0
Variance 13.0 (13.0 20120305.m.415 2012/03/05:21:00:00)
Variations 13.0 (13.0 20120305.m.415 2012/03/05:21:00:00)
Water Paper 13.0
Watercolor 13.0
Wave 13.0
Wavefront|OBJ 13.0 (13.0 20120305.m.415 2012/03/05:21:00:00)
WIA Support 13.0 (13.0 20120305.m.415 2012/03/05:21:00:00)
Wind 13.0
Wireless Bitmap 13.0 (13.0 20120305.m.415 2012/03/05:21:00:00)
ZigZag 13.0
Optional and third party plug-ins:
ArtWork 6.0.1491.8030
Sketch 13.0.2473.8439
Plug-ins that failed to load: NONE
Flash:
Mini Bridge
Kuler
Installed TWAIN devices: NONE -
Presets sought for fine-tuning skin tones
Are presets available to fine tune skin tones in Camera Raw, perhaps by tweaking colors and hue/saturation/luminance settings in the HSL/Grayscale menu?
I like almost everything about ACR except how the default settings render skin tones on my 5D's CR2 files. I bought a copy of Margulis' 'Professional Photoshop' and now can consistently "fix" what I didn't like, but I suspect as much or more could be accomplished with knowledgeable tweaking in the HSL menu.
I found one preset, after visiting this adobe forums thread:
http://www.adobeforums.com/webx/.3bbed80a/1
... but that's all. I think they'd be a snap for an expert retoucher to create -- e.g., warm_with_pink.xmp, warm_with_yellow.xmp, presets for skin tones of different ethnicities, etc.
Of course, I've tried to do it myself, by nudging orange, red, yellow and magenta sliders, but ... with limited success, to put it mildly. I'd much rather start out with tweak-the-skin-tones presets from an expert, and then adjust to taste. If I can find 'em.Thanks for the links to chromoholics and creativepro. My last experience with creating a custom camera profile wasn't that successful, but that was a long time ago, and I probably shouldn't let that discourage me from trying again. If that's the ultimate solution, you've told me what I need to know.
For whatever it's worth, though, I've shot with two 5Ds, and can't tell the CR2s they produce apart. ACR at default settings yields the same (to me) objectionable, pale apricot skin tone from the CR2s of both cameras.
I would fix this in ACR, if I knew how. I don't; I'm not that good with the HSL sliders; I have to do it in Photoshop. But because the 5D is a popular and fairly high end camera, I guessed, or hoped, that professional wedding or fashion photographers who live and die by nuances of skin tone might have sub-directories full of presets to nudge 5D skin tones ... and, further, that they'd generously share said preset collection with the world. -
Skin tone adjustments in Aperture
I normally use Photoshop for editing, and Aperture as an "image management" and output system. However, I just did a shoot of my brother's baby and I have 200+ pictures to correct so PS is not an option this time. My nephew's skin is very red, so I'm wondering what the best way to correct that is in Aperture. I normally use selective color or curves in PS, but neither of those are available in Aperture.
Thanks,
ChrisHi there,
Sounds like we use the same prcedure for similar reasons.
Yes and no to your question, and sadly, a bigger NO that there isn't a true workflow. We're into the best workaround FOR YOU. Mine is FOR ME, and (as my wife will tell you, I'm unique .... which I take as a compliment, errrrr).
Yes, the time to batch export and then import may be faster, technically, possibly, maybe, who knows?
No, the issue of getting the photos tagged back into the stacks (if this is of use to you) becomes manual activity and is unsupported by the system outside of sort conditions.
You can easily overwhelm memory with CS2 loading images and Aperture there as well, so I tend to do 10 or a dozen at a time ... more if image size and memory permits. Run an Action in CS2 unless masks are needed, Save and Close. On Save, the image is placed back into Aperture without any further work on your (i.e. MINE since I am LAAAZY).
BTW, somebody else mentioned this. I am a big fan, but have ghad to learn to work with quarter tone Levels. If the color shift is most needful on the skin tones, and less objectionable elsewhere, you may be able to use the quarter tone adjusts in combination with exposure and white balance adjustments within Aperture. Oh, how I would like selection and masks!!!! -
What are the ranges for correct skin tones using RGB%?
What are the ranges for correct skin tones using RGB%? Used to using a scale from 0 to 255. But with LR it's RGB , I know 100% RGB is white. What do you use for %?
While I whole heartedly agree that we should not be constrained to hard and fast numbers for accurate skin tones ... LR does offer an RGB color readout ... I am assuming they made those percentages available for the user to monitor the breakdown of specific color values for a reason ... so we could have an indication of how a specific color in an image will be reproduced ...
I liken this to using a speedometer ... while many experienced drivers in well tuned vehicles can travel on the highway at the prescribed legal speed limit without really monitoring the readout on the dashboard ... however, there are times when they would like to verify the speed at which they are traveling ... the RGB color percentage readout in LR is no different ... just a source of information to verify you are achieving what you desire ...
Again, going by specific numbers in this instance, I believe, could lead to problems ... there may be times when you may desire or actually need to adjust skin tones ... even though a pleasing WB has been achieved ... the relationship of R, G and B can be used to get you there.
From what I have researched and put into practice with LR the following seems to be a good starting point and the data was borrowed from "the pixelation" blog:
R: highest %
G: middle %
B: lowest %
To get a little more specific. In general,
R: Y + (15-20)
G: average of R and B
B: R – (15-20)
For example, the following values represent common Caucasian skin tones using the rules above:
* R: 80%; G: 70%; B: 60%. R is 20 points higher than B, and G is midway between R and B. That’s perfect.
* R: 86%, G: 78%; B: 70% also reflects a nicely balanced skin tone. Again, G is midway between R and B, and R is 16 points higher than B. This, too, illustrates a great relationship among the colors. -
Layer Mask with Adjust Skin Tones?
Is there a way to use a layer mask with the adjust skin tone option in PE4? I like what it did to the skin , but not what it did to the wall in the photo. Thanks.
Hi Jon there are at least three ways.
#1..Make a selection.. then apply the skin tone option. Only the selected area will be active.
#2... Duplicate the layer you want to work on. Apply the skin tone. Then hold the Ctrl key and make a new layer. The new blank layer will be below the layer with the skin tone. Then hold the Alt key and click between the two layers to group them. The skin tone will disappear but you can paint it back with a black brush, or remove with an eraser. Just be sure to have the blank layer active.
#3... Duplicate and apply tone as in #2. Open an adjustment layer, like levels, directly below the skin tone layer. Click ok do not make any adjustments. Then as above hold the Alt key and click between the layers to group them, look for the link symbol. Now you can remove with a black brush or add with a white brush.
Butch -
In the tutorial "Photoshop Tutorial:Adjusting Skin Tones" (huge address so did not include) you find the perfect skin tone (ref), use color sampler tool and in info change to HSB. You change the brightness here to same value as troublesome skin tone pic (target) and jot down RGB values. Next you make a selection of the target and make a curves adjustment layer. So far so good.
Here is where I get confused.
"Step 5: Using Curves
Once you have all the skin area selected, it's time to create an Adjustment Layer. To do this, go to Layer, Adjustment Layer, and then Curves. Then, going through each curve: Red, Green, and Blue, add a point on each one. Once that is done, hold on Shift+Command for Mac users and Shift+Ctrl for PC users and click on the area that you sampled earlier (the sample where you checked the HSB settings). Once you have sampled the color, all you need to do is replace the figures found in each R, G, and B curves with the numbers you jotted down in Step 3".
When asked to add a point on each curve how do you know where to click on the line for point? Where do you get the points? I clicked on the target and the point appeared, but did not stay. So I then clicked on line at that location. Is that what is meant?
"When you use Shift+Ctrl on the sampled area" is this on the ref. area? What does this do? I see no change.
"Once you have sampled the color, all you need to do is replace the figures found in each R, G, and B curves with the numbers you jotted down in Step 3." I assume you grab the point on the lline that was added above and drag to the new value?
Perhaps someone with experiece in this or similar method can provide some clues.
ThanksWith the Curves dialog open, Ctrl+Shift+clicking in the image will place a point in the curve in all the channels at that position. From what i understood of the tutorial you Ctrl+Shift+click on a skin tone that you want to modify and then modify those points so that that section of the skin matches with the ref area.
A faster method would be to just paint with that color on a separate layer and then set that layer to the Color blend mode. It doesn't always work but it's usually worth a try before messing around with per channel curves adjustments. -
I have photoshop CS2, wanting to adjust the skin tones
I take photos of clothing for a on-line seller. I have been using a Nikon D-200 which seems not to like the various blues of jeans. When I adjust the color of the the jeans, it of course changes the skin color. How could I isolate the skin for color correction. Any ideas would be much appreciated
Hi John, Thank you for the tip, I will practice the methods you suggest.
Sincerely,
Cherie
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Date: Fri, 27 Nov 2009 17:57:21 -0700
From: [email protected]
To: [email protected]
Subject: I have photoshop CS2, wanting to adjust the skin tones
You've almost answered your own question. You'll need to "isolate" the skin areas in your photograph(s). This is a tedious process that takes some getting used to. I tend to use the "lasso" tool, but you could use something like the "magic wand" tool. If it's the jeans you want to manipulate, you'll have to "select" them separately. I'd get the selections and then save them separately ( Selections > Save Selections ). You might want to post this in the Photoshop section of these forums and see what they come back with over there. Up until now, it sounds like you're color correcting the entire photograph, so nice blues, but not so nice skin tones. Makes sense to isolate them from eachother, no?
> -
Skin tone balance? (as opposed to white balance)
much like there's a way of automating white balance (through the eye-dropper or auto-WB), i wonder if there's a way of matching skin tones. is there some sort of "match hue" option where you can make someone's forehead be the same hue in every photo (without doing it manually)?
there's such an option in apple's final cut pro in the 3-way color corrector. it's a very handy and time-saving feature.
thanks!This is only half the answer. Have you seriously tried to edit large numbers of files with this method? It's an exercise in frustration.
I just started up Aperture to see how many Tabs it takes to go from White Balance to Exposure, 7 from memory as it highlights every sub-menu along the way. I say from Memory because it decides this time (a first) it's not going to move to the next field no matter how many times Tab is pressed. And when my workflow is Exposure, then White Balance, (don't get me started about bright sparks who tell you to do it the other way), then H&S, then Saturation, which is how many Tabs? Somewhere between 35 and 40. And you have to take your eyes of the screen to see where you are.
I've said this quite a few times in these forums, and yes, I have posted a number of times in the feedback, that the best implementation of this is Capture 1 where (on PC) Control +/- controls exposure, Shift +/- White Balance etc. And it works perfectly on a network, unlike Bridge which just keeps crashing.
As someone who edits anywhere between 1100 and 2000 CR2 files a week there is no way I could use Aperture in our Companies workflow. I use it for my personal work where time and volume are not crucial considerations but file management is.
Even though Capture 1 is long in the tooth, ie no H&S, no Recovery yadda, yadda, yadda, to my knowledge no other Professional level RAW processor has this direct entry of important adjustment values and once used any other method is just tedious.
While I love most of the other features, in my opinion, the Tab method of moving between adjustments as implemented in Aperture is half baked and very buggy.
End of rant.
Cheers,
Terry
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