Software monitoring problem, increased latency?

I tested 8 in the studio yesterday, with a real band etc. There was a major problem though, try as I might I couldn't get a proper monitor signal for the singer using software monitoring(through Logic).
He complained about the horrible flanging/tremolo sound in his cans, whatever the hardware buffer size. I did all the usual tricks, checked that latency compensation was off, switched low latency mode on and off, etc. Nothing worked and I had to resort to hardware monitoring(meaning no reverb for the vocal while recording, not ideal but better than nothing).
I never had this problem with this singer with vs 7, I use a 128 sample buffer which gives acceptable results/no complaints.
I even switched the buffer to 64 with the i/o safety buffer on. Didn't fix the flanging problem, though I was pleasantly surprised audio worked without glitching/breaking up, as it normally does when using 64 with my FF800 and LP7.
BTW, it crashed the first time I used 'save a copy as' for project backup.
Best,
Zip
All this on my G5 2.7

WuWei wrote:
There shouldn't be any flanging - just a delayed signal.
Well, technically, yes, that's correct.
I think the term "flanging" or "chorusing" gets used a lot, because in the case of a vocalist, they can hear themselves "inside their head" as well as through the cue mix, and the latency, even a small amount, creates the illusion of a flanged or chorused signal.
All that said, I too, find the latency to be greater in version 8. Not a show stopper yet, but for those of us monitoring through the software, every little bit gets noticed.
It's discouraging to get a "new" and "improved" Logic, and have greater latency than before.
If I was the paranoid type, I'd believe Apple did that on purpose, to make us all want to go buy Apogee Symphony systems and new Intel Mac Pros...
Did I just say that out loud...?

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Activity Monitor problems increase CPU and power burn

Migration Assistant worked very nicely, transferring from a Powerbook G4 with 30GB of files and data in about 45min via Firewire.
However, after 2 days of usage, the CPU was still running at 80% and applications were incredibly sluggish. My battery calibration at full charge only showed a little over 1 hour. Activity Monitor also would not show any processes -- the list was completely blank.
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Software monitoring and latency

I've heard people mention that they turn off software monitoring to minimize latency, but I don't see how to do that. I realize it has to do with the equipment and maybe my device does not allow for non-software monitoring.
I'm using items none of you have probably heard of: A HarmonyAudio Miglia firewire device. It has two analog inputs, firewire out, and a headphone jack. The inputs and headphone all have gain or volume controls. The two inputs come from a Behringer 8 channel mixing board's main outs. This mixer also has a headphone jack, control room outs and tape in/outs. It is a pretty nice board. I have a stereo amplifier and studio monitors for mixing. It seems like I could turn software monitoring off and listen via the Miglia headphone jack (or run it into the amplifier), but that does not work. When software monitoring is off, no sound comes from the Miglia.
In general, with this sort of set up, what is the best way to have minimum latency. It is driving me crazy--I'm about to go back to my little $150 Foxtex flash card recorder. It has zero latency, zero! Latency is a deal breaker for me. If I can't fix it I'll have to go back to flash card recording. As much as I like the bells and whistles of computer recording, in doing the fundamentals it is too, too primitive. Thanks for any tips!

I thought this sounded familiar - then I saw your earlier thread:
http://discussions.apple.com/message.jspa?messageID=9832448#9832448
I searched for the Miglia manual to see what they offered for hardware .v. software monitoring, and they don't appear to have any additional software for audio routing, which seems very odd to me. Most interfaces come with a control panel/mixer application which allows you to turn off software monitoring and instead listen to your source direct, thereby latency-free.
Unless I'm missing something, short of buying another interface, you're left with only software monitoring as an option - what's your I/O buffer size set to in Logic? The smaller the better - too small and you'll get pops and crackles, but 64 or 128 should have low enough latency to be workable for you.

How would I monitor with FIREPOD and not software monitoring?

Sound confusing?
OK I'm using a Firepod. If I disable software monitoring (to reduce latency) how do I monitor through the Firepod? I lost the manual so that's why I'm asking here.

If you are trying to monitor the Firepod w/ no Latency, simply turn the input/playback knob either to the middle (to hear already recorded tracks + your input) or hard left for input only. Arm the track in Logic, then use the headphone jack or listen through your monitors.
This should give you latency free monitoring with no problems. I do this all the time after tracking w/ a board for seperate monitor mixes, since the firepod doesn't support that.

Software Monitoring

When my **** singers record their vocals they always prefer some effects to be heard while they sing, like reverb and delay. Well I have set my input 1 for the vocals in my Presonus FB as a mono track. I always put in a compressor in that track and in Bus 1 i assigned my fx. But when i start to record the singers there is a small delay in the singing while hearing it. How am i suppose to rectify this problem. Basically i want to record my vocals with reverb and delay heard and it should sync while recording and hearing it at the same time.

It takes time to route audio in and out of a computer, due to the nature of audio interfaces and buffers.
For critical timing, you don't generally want to be hearing yourself *through the computer* as this will introduce delay. You can reduce this delay by reducing the buffer sizes, and for some applications, this will be acceptable.
Otherwise you need to monitor your tracking through the audio interface directly, and avoid routing it into the computer/Logic and back out again before you hear it.
In the case of comfortverb, the delay shouldn't matter too much, so what I suggest you do is reduce your buffer sizes for tracking to a reasonable tradeoff between latency and performance. Leave software monitoring on but do not monitor the live dry signal, set it's output to "No output", and route the send to your reverb as before. Leave the dry signal to be directly monitored via your audio interface.
Now the singer will hear themselves without delay, and will also hear the reverb - this will have a little delay, but for reverb this is not a problem, it just effectively slightly increases the predelay of the reverb.
If you still can't get things they way you want, then get an inexpensive hardware FX unit for comfortverb and do not software monitor in Logic at all.

Software Monitoring (EASY UNDERSTANDING IT)

Hi all
Just a question:
What is the SIMPLEST way to handle Software Monitoring in Logic Pro 7.2?
Do I have to turn on/out the button always when I record and than mix?
What is the SIMPLEST way to handle this feature?
Thanks for a CLEAR and SHORT answer!
Marcos
PS: What is the essential meaning of Software Monitoring anyway? Is it very important?
Mac OS X (10.4.9)

I only monitor through Logic. I use no external mixer.
(So in my case Software monitoring should always be ON, right?
You do have an external mixer - it's inside your audio hardware.
I have a MOTU 896HD but NEVER used the CueMix DSP™
on-board mixing feature (to complicated to me)
Then stick to software monitoring only.
Either you mix the guitar signal with the output of
Logic in your audio interface, and send the mix to
your speakers (direct monitoring),
Don't understand exactly what you mean!!!
Direct monitoring:
- Guitar is plugged into input 1 on your audio interface.
- That guitar input is sent directly to the outputs of your audio interface (and therefore to your speakers).
- The main output of Logic is also sent to the outputs of your audio interface (and therefore to your speakers) - so Logic's mix is mixed together with the guitar signal from the audio interface's input so you can hear them both
- The guitar input is also sent to Logic for recording purposes, but you don't hear it inside Logic - that way, you only hear the direct guitar signal, rather than two copies of it
Software monitoring:
- Guitar is plugged into input 1 on your audio interface.
- That guitar input is NOT sent directly to the outputs of your audio interface (and therefore to your speakers).
- The guitar input is sent to Logic for recording purposes, and Logic adds this into it's main mix, so Logic's output includes the guitar sound you are recording
- The main output of Logic is sent to the outputs of your audio interface (and therefore to your speakers)
This means, since I use no external mixer, I can only make
audio recordings and stay clean with the latency problem
if I don't use any plug ins (because using them would create latency).
No - any audio that goes into Logic and back out again will have latency, because it takes time for the audio to go through both buffers. If you add plugins, that is likely to increase the latency because they may need even more time to process the audio. But software monitoring will always have some latency - and it's for this reason that direct monitoring on audio interfaces was included.
In other words, I can't record and at the same time use plug ins?
Yes you can, as long as you are using software monitoring. If you are using direct monitoring, then you can't hear the plugins, because you are not hearing the guitar in Logic (and therefore also it's plugins), you are hearing the dry direct signal only.

Pitch Correction plugin and Software Monitoring

Okay guys...When ever I use the pitch correction plugin...I get a great deal of latency even when i change my buffer...this doesnt sound normal, because when I had the demo of Autotune...this never happens. When I am singing...I cant stack because of this. Also, when I click low latency mode (which i shouldnt have to) i don't hear the software monitoring(the effects of the PitchCorr)...help! i dont know what to do.... this is bad because i cant properly execute what I normally used to do with the autotune...might I add though, Pitch correction sounds alot more natural than autotune!!! sounds great! so excited to be able to use it properly!!! I was ready to purchase AT, but I dont want to anymore!!!

and beejay dont act like its uncommon for singers to use it while tracking.
In my experience, it's incredibly uncommon to use the software Autotune *while tracking*.
For exactly the reasons I described (and others).
Auto Tune doesnt have this problem...Logics autotune does...
Auto Tune absolutely has latency. It's how pitch detection works.
From the AutoTune manual:
"In order for Auto-Tune to automatically correct pitch, it must also detect the
pitch of the input sound. It's easy for you to calculate the pitch of a periodic
waveform: Simply measure the time between repetitions of the waveform.
Divide this time into one, and you have the frequency in Hertz.
Auto-Tune does the same thing: It looks for a periodically repeating waveform
and calculates the time interval between repetitions.
The pitch detection algorithm in Auto-Tune is virtually instantaneous. Like
your eye-ball, it can see the repetition in a periodic sound within a few
cycles. This usually occurs before the sound has suffcient amplitude to be
heard. Used in combination with a slight delay (about 1 to 10 milliseconds),
the output pitch can be detected and corrected without artifacts in a seamless
and continuous fashion."
So you are always going to get some milliseconds of latency. Whether AutoTune is faster than Logic's I don't know and don't really care. This only matters if you are using software monitoring while tracking, and if you are doing this then you are also adding additional delays on the signal because of the round-trip buffer sizes and so on anyway.
What you are actually saying is that for you, the latency you get tracking through AutoTune is acceptable, and it is not acceptable when using Logic's pitch correction.
In that case, either don't track through pitch detection, or buy AutoTune...

L9 - all tracks seem to "software monitor" when set to record! BUG?!

Hi Guys,
Not sure if this is another Logic 9 bug or if I am just going crazy!
Often when recording tracking parts, I need to record three or four tracks at the same time. For example, today I was recording vocals, keyboard and bass.
I always monitor the vocals through Logic, so the singer has some reverb in real time. However, for zero latency monitoring on piano and bass, I would usually just monitor them straight through the mixer and not through Logic.
To achieve this in Logic 8, I would press the "software monitoring" button (the green one beside the transport window). I'd also press the orange "Low latency mode" button to make sure the tracks that were software monitored would not have any latency.
Then I would select record for all tracks I was recording, and I would press the "i" button (orange button for input monitoring) for the tracks that I actually wanted to software monitor. Tracks with "i" pressed (usually just vocals) would monitor through Logic with effects, the rest would just be monitored through the mixer.
In Logic 9, this isn't working! Even if I only press the "i" button on one track, ALL of the tracks are coming through Logic. It seems to be applying software monitoring to ANY TRACK THAT IS IN RECORD MODE, even if the input button isn't pressed for that track!
So I either have to have ALL record-enabled tracks software monitored (which induces a little bit of latency for the keys and bass) or NONE (and leave the vocalist without any real-time effects in the mix while he sings).
Am I missing something here? Is there a new setting somewhere that automatically sets all record-enabled tracks to software monitor mode when the software monitoring button is pressed in the transport bar?
OR... is this a new bug?! It's a big one if it is!
I'd love to hear what other people think... or if anyone has a suggestion that might help with this? I might just be missing something obvious here, but I don't think so...
Thanks heaps guys!
Mike

yeloop wrote:
Hi Guys,
Not sure if this is another Logic 9 bug or if I am just going crazy!
Often when recording tracking parts, I need to record three or four tracks at the same time. For example, today I was recording vocals, keyboard and bass.
I always monitor the vocals through Logic, so the singer has some reverb in real time. However, for zero latency monitoring on piano and bass, I would usually just monitor them straight through the mixer and not through Logic.
To achieve this in Logic 8, I would press the "software monitoring" button (the green one beside the transport window). I'd also press the orange "Low latency mode" button to make sure the tracks that were software monitored would not have any latency.
That's not what Low Latency Mode does, it only bypasses high latency inducing plugins, there's a threshold setting in Logic. But that's not the problem...
Then I would select record for all tracks I was recording, and I would press the "i" button (orange button for input monitoring) for the tracks that I actually wanted to software monitor. Tracks with "i" pressed (usually just vocals) would monitor through Logic with effects, the rest would just be monitored through the mixer.
That's not how it works here (on version 8.02)
With software monitoring enabled any track in record mode is passed through Logic's audio engine. Input monitoring only works when a track is -not- record enabled. At least that's how it's working with my RME hardware.
Perhaps you're thinking of "Auto Input Monitoring", try adding that button to the transport bar and see if that's working the way you expect. Any tracks set to input monitoring and record will pass their signal thru Logic, tracks set to record only, will not. The sequencer has to be running so the vocalist wouldn't hear reverb until you actually start recording.
pancenter-

BUG: Software monitoring and playback levels

Have you ever thought your headphone monitoring level jumped up or down, for no apparent reason ? I think I may have found out why... try this:
1) Turn ON Software Monitoring. Independent Monitoring Level can be on or off, it doesn't matter. Take an audio track with active regions on it, arm that track for recording, and press play. Move the record fader up and down--it will adjust the level of the playback audio. All is good. Move this fader down around -20dB, so you can hear the track, but it's quiet.
2) Now, stop the transport, turn OFF Software Monitoring, and press play again. The track's playback level has not changed, which is fine. Move the record fader up and down--it doesn't do anything. Would be nice if that fader controlled the playback volume, but that's more of a feature request. Here comes the real bug...
3) Take the track out of record, then put it back in record. Press play: BOOM!, your playback level on that track has now jumped to 0dB. And there's no way to change it--regardless of the level set by the record and play faders, you're now monitoring at 0dB.
4) Turn ON Software Monitoring, and everything goes back to normal--the playback volume jumps back to the setting of the record fader. Now, turn OFF Software Monitoring, and your monitoring level will stay where you just put it UNTIL you take the track out of record. Next time you re-arm the track, it will jump back to 0dB.
Very weird, eh ?
As best I can tell, when Software Monitoring is OFF, the only way to change your playback monitoring level (for a track armed for recording--using auto-punch, etc.) is to turn Software Monitoring ON, then back OFF again. That will set your level to whatever the fader is showing. But once you take the track out of record, the level resets back to 0dB.
Assuming this isn't some bizarre corruption of my system, maybe we could get Apple's attention to fix this ?
And I think there may also be a related bug where the live input monitoring level jumps (regardless of visible fader position) while Software Monitoring is ON, but I can't reproduce it. Just thinking I've experienced that from time to time, too, and it's such a similar problem to this one...
-James

jnashguitar wrote:
And I think there may also be a related bug where the live input monitoring level jumps (regardless of visible fader position) while Software Monitoring is ON, but I can't reproduce it. Just thinking I've experienced that from time to time, too, and it's such a similar problem to this one...
This happens to me on a fairly regular basis. In my case, the input volume is always LOWER than the fader position.
I will be, say, recording an electric guitar part. Software monitoring on (I monitor thru Logic). The fader is at 0dB, and the guitar on input is a bit loud in the mix, but good for overdubbing a part. After a few passes, the level on input, or even while in record, will drop a good 3 or 4 dB. Hit stop, hit play, and the playback volume is loud again. Go into record, and it drops... the fader was never touched.
This is isn't every time I record, but common enough to not surprise me... It's definitely a bug

Hooking up external synth. monitoring problem. HELP!!!

so...i had been using garageband without a problem. i am having a problem with logic. i want to record the sounds off my alesis micron. i have 1/4 inch cables running through a tascam us 122. that is hooked up to my macbook pro via usb cable (just trying to be specific here as to how i have things hooked up and my settings). computer input is the us-122, the output is the headphones built in output (instead of the output on t he tascam).
heres what i have been trying:
i have the driver on the tascam within logic. clicked on an audio track...enable recording. when i play my keyboard i can see that its picking up a signal...but i can't hear anything. even when playing one of the tutorial tracks that come with logic i cannot hear anything. so i experiment...i record, play my synth a little (even though i can't hear it) and stop. it records the waveform. when i try to play back, i can't hear it. when i switch the driver to direct line...only then can i hear what i records (i cannot hear my synth when the driver is set to direct line, no signal comes through obviously). my initial thought was that there is a monitor play thru button somewhere like garage band. the software monitoring was clicked the whole time. i have no idea what i'm doing wrong. can anyone help me?
sorry for being longwinded here but im trying to give as much information as possible.

With no offense intended: your questions seem to indicate confusion on an extremely basic level that's probably quite beyond the scope of this forum.
It sounds like you need an introduction to basic MIDI, and the differences between MIDI and audio.
http://www.tweakheadz.com/howto_get_started_withmidi.html
Basically, MIDI is the equivalent of sheet music - it tells the performing instrument which note(s) to play at what time. What the actual audio generated sounds like is of no concern to MIDI - that depends on the instrument used.
The audio is the equivalent of a CD recording of the sheet music being performed. It's a completely different medium, as it were.
Where it gets confusing is in devices that do both, such as the Kaoss pad: you can use it as a MIDI controller to influence the parameters of the synthesizer, AND you can use it to mangle the audio that comes out of the synthesizer (or anywhere else).
You're going to want to hook the Kaoss pad up via MIDI and audio; the trick is using the Presonus Firebox's mixer/routing application to route the incoming/outgoing audio to your monitor system and into the Kaoss pad at the same time (so as to be able to add FX from the Kaoss pad).
The audio routing will probably be easier to setup for an inexperienced user/better to control with an external mixer, though the Presonus is certainly potent enough to get it all done in software. But how to set that up really depends on what exactly you're looking to be doing.
It's easier to fiddle around with cables and a hardware mixer if you're just learning.

Can only get sound when "software monitoring" is checked

Working my way through David Nahmani's logic pro 8 and express book. On the second lesson trying to record acoustic guitar. It says to turn off software monitoring under preferences > Audio so the computer isn't picking it up twice, but when I do I get no sound at all in my monitors or headphones. The channel strip still reads and lights up, it will even record, but don't hear it when I'm actually recording it. The guitar tuner only works when software monitoring is checked too.
I'm using logic express 8 my interface is a Presonus Firebox.

Hi,
this advice applies to recording acoustic guitar with a mic and without headphones.
With an electric guitar, or while wearing headphones, software monitoring should be turned on.
Even better, since there's no latency, is hardware monitoring. Some audio interfaces have a knob to select between input and computer output.
Fox

Input monitoring problem

Hi all!
I've got the latest version of GarageBand that runs on my OS X Mavericks. The problem is with my guitar tracks. I plug in using my line-in input with simple cord and at first, there is no problem. I can hear my guitar playback live in real time(i.e. input monitoring is on) on the guitar track. But then something happens and my guitar sound disappears from the track, although the input monitoring function is still shown as working. Can somebody please tell me why this is so?
All help much appreciated.
therealking

I have a similar problem, although I'm on Logic Pro 8.
I can't seem to record my guitar track (mic'd cabinet) without having the result monitor back through my studio monitors unless I turn off software monitoring in Preferences/Audio. But then if I want to record keyboards direct and listen to what I'm playing, I have to go back in and turn the option back on.
In Sonar on the PC, this was much more intuitive. You could arm a track for recording by clicking the "R" button, and separately toggle monitoring on and off by clicking the little speaker button to the right. You didn't have to constantly fiddle with the program preferences.
I have a FireWire410 interface, and the monitoring only happens when Logic is loaded. I would have thought that the little "I" icon was to turn monitoring on and off, but it's some "pre/post-tape" toggle I can't find a use for.
Kevin, how did you control your monitor mix before?

No software monitoring ouput

I have a problem where I'm getting signal from my microphone, but ZERO software monitor output. Also, now I'm not getting any audio from anything in my composition. I've never had this problem before. I attempt to close Logic to start it over, but I have to force quit, and an error saying COREmidi error. Any help would be greatly appreciated!
I'm running on an older version of Logic, but that shouldn't be a big deal to the point where I have no sound coming out of it.

Okay, I just had the same problem and what fixed it for me was to switch the Mercury Playback Engine (or MPE) from GPU Acceleration to Software Only. (Project\Project Settings\General...)
I also updated Premiere to 5.5.2.
I'm running Windows 7 with a Quadro 4000.

Software Monitoring HELP

I use a 1.83 GHz G5 iMac to run Logic Express. My mixing board is firewire and supports software monitoring, it's a MultiMix16 Firewire. My problem is with software monitoring.
Randomly, a few days ago, I began working on something and realized I wasn't hearing any audio from the program. Most normally, I'd be plugged into my headphone out or even main mix out, and I'd hear what I've recorded via the program. (All the tracks, etc.) Now, for whatever reason, I can still record with the board but don't hear any audio out except the live noise. Confusing, but I need help. I know I've got software monitoring enabled.
Is my mixer broken? Is it simply a setting issue in Logic express? HELP!
1.83 GHz G5 iMac, 1 GHz G4 Powerbook Mac OS X (10.4.10)

Hello Bahamaboy,
Your problem is exactly my problem. I tried both Windows Xp and 7. I can see live video, but the utility only record for a few second and freeze. There is no tech support in my country - cambodia, so I'm in a more serious situation. I also need help. May be I should tried from a fresh windows installation, but what is it good for. It takes lot of time to reinstall everything. Your comments do suggest some software conflict. I think I will try it on my laptop rather than my desktop, which I do not have lot of software installed on my laptop.
(Mod note: Edited post for guideline compliance. Thanks!)
Message Edited by JOHNDOE_06 on 01-20-2010 08:35 AM

Software monitoring gives some sort of electrical disturbance sound

Hi. Im using a dual G5 with 2.5 Gb ram and a Mackie 400F. When activating software monitoring from within Logic I sometimes get some sort of sparkling sound. Its there all the time, even when not recording or playing back.
Sounds like some sort of sparkle/crack. Its constant. If I turn off software monitoring and listens straight off the 400F it goes away.
Any inputs appreciated.
Thanks.

I dont think its the firewire whine. Pretty sure it isnt. In fact I just installed Tiger and at first glance it seems like that solved it.
I have one more problem regarding a full left or right pan in logic, where I get a slip trough of disorted sound on the other side than the one I panned 100% to, but I will take that in a new thread.
And where do I DL the CHUD?
Thanks a lot.

Software monitoring problem, increased latency?

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