Sorting order for Highlights, Shadows, Whites and Blacks controls.

I absolutely love the new set of controls as compared to the similar options in LR3. With just these 6 controls and a few seconds I can get my image looking great. One thing is making me crazy though, the four controls are logically sorted "Whites, Highlights, Shadows, Blacks" in terms of the range that they impact. If the controsl were sorted as I suggested, I would be able to think through the problem of fixing a particular image more efficiently.
Has this been discussed or considered?

tomalphin wrote:
I should add, with only four items in question, putting the two you are most likely to use slightly closer together will result in little gained efficiency. Having them sorted in a manner that is easier to teach, learn and internalize will likely lead to better results for a larger percentage of users.
Further, if they were sorted in the manner I suggest, it would be possible to further strengthen the understanding of how the features work by showing a color curve overlay on the histogram. This would make it even easier for folks to understand how these six abstract controls affect the image.
It sounds like there is a mix of rational and reactive pushback to this approach from the vocal audience on this forum. I would be very interested to see how the two compared in blind lab studies with participants of comparable experience. (Including new and existing users... I would like to think that Adobe is saavy enough to realize that it is important to court new users if they want to grow their customer base and profit opportunity.)
If there's one thing we can pull from this whole discussion, it's that there's no way for Adobe to make everyone happy on this issue. There just isn't. Some people absolutely hate that the sliders are ordered as the are in LR4b, others seem to think it makes perfect sense. Both are adamant in their stance. So now it becomes this whole over-blown issue of," What percentage of users like it this way compared to that way." I'm sorry, but I just don't understand why it's such a big deal. Is it that hard to use the controls in the order that Adobe placed them in LR4b. Really? Is it? Is it really that slow for you high-volume photographers out there? Is it really something that you won't completely get used to in all of a few hours of using LR4?
The current sort order of the sliders in LR4b is not necessarily just an order-of-operations that is being thrust upon Lightroom users. The rationale is that the controls follow an order which, in most cases for most photographs, flows from the most global adjustments to the most specific. It's more than just an arbitrary ordering based on "what Adobe says we ought to do first".
The truth is, while I understand Adobe's reasoning here, I really don't care what order the sliders end up in. Why? Because it really doesn't matter all that much, at all. I mean, think about it. Let's say that the current order of the sliders in LR4b makes it to the final version. Are users going to keep using Lightroom 3 in protest? No. Are users going to keep all their photos in PV2010 expressly because they simply can't handle the order of the sliders in PV2012? No. The reason that nobody will go to such lengths is that it's reallly just not that important. This is an exceptionally minor issue of personal preference that has less weight and importance than the hard drive space at Adobe used to store all of the threads that have popped up in complaint of the slider order.
I know that everyone vehemently arguing against the current slider order will whole-heartedly disagree... but I simply had to put in my two-cents. The issue of slider order is so miniscule that I cannot fathom why so much has already been written about it.
EDIT*****
An afterthought...
Really? "Blind lab studies" to scientifically determine what order to put LR4 sliders in? C'mon guys... you've got to be kidding me...

Similar Messages

Highlights, Shadows, Whites, Blacks

So in the Basic panel of the Develop module, there are sliders for:
Highlights
Shadows
Whites
Blacks
Is it just me or from a workflow perspective, wouldn't it make more sense to have them listed as:
Whites
Highlights
Shadows
Blacks
While playing with the beta, I found myself working with highlights and whites together or working with blacks and shadows together. The jumping around in that panel meant I had to pay way more attention to it than necessary which was distracting.
Anyone else or am I just too uptight?!

Despite the fact that I see the "top down" approach, I would still rather sacrifice that a little bit and instead having the sliders in the photographic order.
Top down is only valid for the first run. After that, I usually find myself adjust here and there a little bit. And that usually take quite a bit more time than the first run.
So when sanitizing the shadows/blacks for instance, the jumping seems tedious.

The basic sliders disappeared. Including the Exposure, Contrast, Highlights, Shadows, Whites, Blacks, Clarity and Vibrance Sliders are no longer available. I need help to get them back

The basic sliders disappeared. Including the Exposure, Contrast, Highlights, Shadows, Whites, Blacks, Clarity and Vibrance Sliders are no longer available. I need help to get them back on the program.
I can't figure out where the sliders went and how to put them back on. Anyone have any suggestions?
Thanks

In Lightroom, go to the Window menu, select Panels, select Basic

Sort Order for Legend and X Axis

Does anyone know of a way to keep a specific sort order for both the X Axis and the Legend. Both start with numbers and I can get one or the other to sort correcly on the chart but not both. Biggest problem is not all of the legend items are in the first X Axis item so the colors change on the bar graph depending on the legend items in the first X Axis item.

If you tie bar colors with values, how you will differentiate the bars for different legends.
Take an example, there are three columns Employee, Location and salery have following values
Employee Location Salery
A London 30000
B Chicago 40000
C London 50000
D Chicago 60000
if we keep Location as Legend and Employee in X Axis, and sort Legend first then Employee. Set Blue for Chicago and Red for London, First two blue bars for A and C will be displayed and then two red bars for B and D will be displayed. Order in X axis will be A,C,B and D. This is not in sequence but this is the way it will and it should work. If you sort by Employee instead if Location, you will get sequence in X axis, but the same colored bars wont be together.
Thanks
Swami

Start an adjustment with Whites and Blacks?

Martin Evening in CS6 for Photographers recommends adjusting an image using Exposure, Contrast, then fine tune with Highlights and Shadow. Says use Whites and Blacks only if necessary. Julieanne Kost has a pithy video on ACR in which she starts by setting Whites and Blacks (which harkens back to Bruce Fraser/Real World Photoshop advice using Levels in Photoshop). http://tv.adobe.com/watch/photoshop-cs6-featuretour/adobe-camera-raw-70-in-photoshop-cs6/
I know I can see what works best for an image, etc. Wondering what is the recommended procedure.

Hi bmad,
I too would love to see a thorough treatise on the new basic sliders, with full disclosure of image adaptive behavior.
But, my guess: Adobe will leave that to 3rd parties, who may or may not ever tackle such an undertaking, with the kind of detail that would please the most curious users.
Anyway, there was a fair amount of back & forth about this in the beta forums way back when.
Eric Chan who implemented the software, was in the camp of:
* Set exposure 1st
* The rest in the order presented.
* Blacks & whites last as more of a fine-tuning of clipping points.
But, I came to accept fairly quickly that leaving blacks & whites til the end was not always going to work for me.
I regularly end up with blacks between -20 and -50, or more.
And, it's not too unusual for me to end up with +whites up to 40, or more...
Likewise, I've had a few photos with +blacks=100 & -whites = 100.
Those kinds of settings can not wait til the end as fine tuning!
Anyway, part of this depends on personal tastes.
+whites is a lot like +exposure, except it pulls harder on the upper most end. Exposure reaches further into the midtones and shadows.
So if you like your shadows and midtones bright, and highlights not as bright, then you may prefer +exposure over +whites.
In a way, +whites is kinda like:
+exposure +contrast -highlights
So, it's possible that two people can end up with similar pictures, even though they started with different sliders...
Personally, I often adjust exposure & whites simultaneously: almost think of them as a related pair. But, that only works for the more normal photos.
When large -whites values will be needed for taming the highlights, (and often +blacks complements it in that case) then the whole game changes...
I have my speculation about how the design / implementation of PV2012 came about, but I'm probably wrong, and for all practical purposes - it doesn't matter anyway.
Truth betold, the end result only depends on the final values of the sliders, not how you got there.
I think the biggest thing that people who've done their time on the learning curve want to depart on those less traveled in the PV2012 journey is:
Don't bring PV2010 thinking (or other less image-adaptive technologies) into PV2012, or it's a recipe for frustration.
e.g. Some people look at a photo and think: gee, the highlights seem bright enough already, so I think I'll try and boost the bottom up treating shadows slider like Lr3 fill light slider. Those people fairly quickly get on the forum and start screaming about how PV2012 doesn't work very well, and they want Lr3 fill back, when what they need to do is +exposure +shadows -highlights instead.
So if you always keep in mind that exposure (perhaps in conjunction with whites) is the primary means for setting overall image brightness, and shadows & highlights sliders balance around it, you'll probably be OK regardless of where you start.
Pop-quiz:
Suppose the picture looks almost perfect as is, except the highlights are too bright. What is the best thing to do?:
A. -highlights
B. -exposure -highlights +shadows
Answer: Usually B
Why? Because -highlights = +shadows is a sweet spot in PV2012, and the -exposure +shadows will keep the bottom end the same, and drop highlight brightness too, so less -highlights is needed for bringing the highlights down: Net effect: about the same, except you keep PV2012 in it's sweet spot.
In my opinion, contrast should usually be put in the ballpark early on after exposure, but fine-tuning contrast can wait til exposure/whites & blacks are more solid. It's not unusal for me to have highlights & shadows be the very last sliders tweaked.
I think one of the reasons contrast slider is up top near exposure in the slider order is to steer people away from attempting to use highlights/shadows for contrast control. Contrast is more for midtone separation, and highlights/shadows as compensation for over/under brightness of highlights & shadows due to settings of exposure and contrast.
PS - Don't forget to add a touch of clarity, if it's one of those kinds of pictures ;-}
Cheers,
Rob

White and black point vs ??

I never know which forum to post these things, so I'll start with the photographers.
 
 These three shots are as follows: (1) the camera raw version, (2) where I moved the sliders from the ends to approximately the beginning/end of the major portion of the histogram, and (3) using the threshold control to find the white and black points in the main part of the picture.
 
 Then, in the two adjusted versions, I lightened the image with the curves control.
 
 In both these cases, I used the grey dropper to touch the same spot on one of the rocks, to get the apparent neutral point.
 
 It seems to me that the threshold method to find the white and black points is preferred, based on the overall color and appearance of the finished adjustment.
 
 But, I've found on some images where the histogram has missing black and missing white, if I adjust the sliders to these two ends, I get pretty much the same outcome, as far as the contrast, color, and grey point.
 
 Could I have some advice on the preferred method to use in handling my image adjustments? Doing it the threshold method takes more time, and sometimes it's difficult to find the white and black points, or even the grey point.
 
 Thanks.
 
 Al
 
 
<a href="http://www.pixentral.com/show.php?picture=1SlEeG9kfwzD34gVOEcCbg7Ktp83p3" /></a>
<img alt="Picture hosted by Pixentral" src="http://www.pixentral.com/hosted/1SlEeG9kfwzD34gVOEcCbg7Ktp83p3_thumb.jpg" border="0" />
 
 
<a href="http://www.pixentral.com/show.php?picture=1tIEs4eAyKz4sxamyVaYRlKjTIIfKj" /></a>
<img alt="Picture hosted by Pixentral" src="http://www.pixentral.com/hosted/1tIEs4eAyKz4sxamyVaYRlKjTIIfKj_thumb.jpg" border="0" />
 
 
<a href="http://www.pixentral.com/show.php?picture=17K3ewFXsGo4K2uH5TGfO06CdVayyn1" /></a>
<img alt="Picture hosted by Pixentral" src="http://www.pixentral.com/hosted/17K3ewFXsGo4K2uH5TGfO06CdVayyn1_thumb.jpg" border="0" />

Yes the image was purposely underexposed. What I was trying to accomplish was to speed up the shutter speed to remove the slight blurring and compensate by pulling data from the shadows. Even though the lens has an image stabilizer the amount of light wasn't enough for a proper sharp shot.
this image is before touch up
These two images are F/5.6, 1/20, ISO 800
After touch up
Better lit scene but shows slight motion blur
This last image is F/5.6, 1/4, ISO 800
I believe that I will have to wait next year and hope I have a faster lens by then. I just don't think the 28mm-135mm f/3.5-5.6 lens is fast enough. I was trying this without a tripod to get in tighter.
Also I was taking these shots without the flash to get the drama of the tree lights.
What I would have prefer is a shutter speed of 1/125 or better as it helps with my hands shaking I believe the slowest should be 1/60
And the lower the ISO the better for noise.
These preferences are what I am used to with my Canon G3 that does not have IS.
I am getting so off track here, lol. But anyways, here are the pictures.

Handling colour: working in red, white and black

I've got a music video project which was shot (HDV) in very rich colour in the inside of an old car with red leather seats, and it's well styled. I want to do something a little different with the colour in post - by saturating the reds, whites and blacks and desaturating the rest, to land up with an un-natural look that will suit the style of the production. Is there a way to selectively desaturate and work with colour in certain frequency spectrums rather that mids/highlights? This tends to put a colour cast over the entire image, which I don't want.

Well you sure picked the three worst colors to work with!
Search this forum for "pleasantville effect" and crack open the manual to read all about the threeway color corrector and "limit effect"
Have a blast.

I tried updating my iPod touch 4th gen and now the screen is bright blue or flashing white and black lines.ive tried the whole home and power button thing but it only brings up the apple icons then goes back to the blue or other screen.please help?

I tried updating my iPod touch 4th gen and now the screen is bright blue or flashing white and black lines.ive tried the whole home and power button thing but it only brings up the apple icons then goes back to the blue or other screen.please help?

This has worked for some others.
- iOS: Not responding or does not turn on
- Also try DFU mode after try recovery mode
How to put iPod touch / iPhone into DFU mode « Karthik's scribblings
- If not successful and you can't fully turn the iOS device fully off, let the battery fully drain. After charging for an least an hour try the above again.
- Try on another computer
- If still not successful that usually indicates a hardware problem and an appointment at the Genius Bar of an Apple store is in order.
Apple Retail Store - Genius Bar

Why are some sort order texts goasted rather then solid black?

To all and anyone
The subject says it all...
Why are some sort order texts ghosted rather then solid black?
Thanks!
Fred

The ghosted/grayed values correspond with auto sorting. Auto sorting drops the leading articles, a/an/the, and variations in other languages, so that for example, The Beatles sorts as Beatles under B unless you explicitly override the auto sort by putting The Beatles in the sort value so that it sorts under T.
tt2

I bought a macbook pro retina ME665 in Dubai, and 3 month later its display stopped working properly.some white lines appeared on it and display itself became white and black. Can anybody suggest what should I do to fix this problem?

In October 2013 I was on Vacationin Dubai and bought there Macbook pro retina ME665. I returned to Kyrgystan (home town) and for New Year I was away for a week. When I came back i found that the dispaly of my laptop became white and black, some lines appeared on it. Everybody in my family told me that no one has dropped my laptop or done anything that can cause this problem. there is no any service provider of apple in my country. WIl, the international warranty cover this case? I bought this laptop not from apple store,but in a simple store and I lost reciept.

Put the Serial Number in here...
https://selfsolve.apple.com/agreementWarrantyDynamic.do
to see if it is registered with Apple..
And see here for Contacting Apple World Wide for Support and Service
http://support.apple.com/kb/HE57

White and black vertical lines

I Have the iPhone 5. It has been in a case since the day I bought it. It is 2 months out of warranty and I got white and black vertical lines while I was laying in bed. My friend tried checking my screen and replaced it with a working screen and it did the same thing so it wasn't the screen. Took my phone to Apple they said it's the screen and I have to pay $130 to fix it even with it out of warranty..... Lady standing next to me had the same problem they plugged it in fixed it and she was on her way with it. What is wrong with my phone? What should I do?

and one more thing, itunes cannot read my device i did that for 20-30 sec but it won't turn on

Iphone 6 plus screen flashing white and black

My iPhone 6 Plus 16Gb suddenly started to show screen artifacs, like flashing with white and black, so I can't see the springboard only black and white screen. Restart of the phone didn't help. Even when the phone is booting, Apple logo doesn't appear and then again flashes. As it seems on background everything is working, as I can receive sms and phone calls. It is just the screen. iPhobe 6 Plus is brand new, I've been using it for 1 week and it never dropped. No physical damage, no nothing, just flashing

Have you tried a Reset by holding down the Sleep / Wake Button and the Home Button at the same time until the white Apple logo appears, then let go of the buttons, but wait until the Reset completes and you are back at your lock-screen? If this doesn't work then do you have a computer with the current version of iTunes? If yes and you already have a Backup of your Media and Data on iCloud or iTunes, then you can put the iPhone in DFU Mode. Don't do this unless you have a Backup and also have a computer with the latest iTunes. You will need your Apple ID and Password. To go to DFU Mode you can hold the Home button while you plug the Lightning Cable into the iPhone, a graphic will appear on the iPhone screen showing that you need to connect to iTunes. At that point just connect the iPhone via the Lightning Cable with USB into your Computer. Open the iTunes App on the Computer and wait until a button appears representing the connected iPhone. Then click on the iPhone button on the iTunes screen and it should open to the Summary page. At that point you can Restore the iPhone to Factory Settings and bring it up as A New Phone. The iPhone should screen should then show Hello and you will need to connect to your WiFi via your Router WiFi Password and then answer all the question put forth by the iPhone. When the "Lets Get Started" occurs you can thoroughly check out the iPhone to make sure it is all OK. When satisfied that things are good, you can plug into the computer and iTunes and this time Restore from Backup. or if you Backup is in iCloud you can Restore over the air.

Default Sort Order for Library View

It would be fantastic if there were a user defined preference for a default sort order in Library view. For example, some users may prefer to always view the images by File Name, or Rating, etc, without having to change the sort order for each individual folder they view via Lightroom.
Thanks!

Thanks for your suggestion Allan, but it doesn't work.
I'm specifically referring to the defaults that Aperture 3 adopts when you use the "File, Import, Folders as Projects with the projects and albums setting.
What I'm finding is regardless of the setting in the Library preferences, the default sort order for the project is Date and Manual for the album.
Yet if I create a project manually the default sort order is as per the Library prefs. Strange.

How do I change the Sort order for Music Video's on the iPad

Hi All,
Apologies if this has been dealt with elsewhere - I can find posts about sort order for TV Shows and Movies but not Music Video's.
When I sync my music video's the appear in Track order in the video app and I cannot find how to change the sort order to 'by Artist' (or any other order come to that).
Any ideas please>

Hi!
Im afraid I believe this cannot be done yet. Sorry!
You can try submitting feedback to apple by clicking [here|http://www.apple.com/feedback/ipad.html] if you wish.
Hope this helps!

Default column sort order for 11g table

Could anyone give me some indication on how I would go about setting the default sort order for a table?
I have a table with a few columns, and dataset returns in a particular order, but my table decides to sort if in any given order until I manually click on the column header and sort it.
I would like to have it done by default on a particular field.
Any info is appreciated.
Thanks
Jonny

As Chris says, the easiest way and best re-use way is to use the order-by clause in your underlying model layer SQL query. For instance in ADF BC this would be in a View Object's query.
However as you haven't dictated your model layer technology, there is another way in JDev 11g. In your web page that contains the ADF Faces RC table, select the binding tab at the bottom of the page, then double click on the iterator in the binding page, and in the Edit Iterator Binding dialog, select the Sort Criteria tab. This allows you to override the sort order on the iterator's columns.
CM.

Sorting order for Highlights, Shadows, Whites and Blacks controls.

Similar Messages

Maybe you are looking for