Space Designer / Surround / & Pops

Could someone please check this out?
1. Open a Logic template... anyone will do (even your own customized autoload etc.)
2. Insert any audio file in the arrange, into an Audio object, preferably start the file on bar 2 (so that there is some space at the beginning with no sound).
3. Set the track to Surround Output
4. Add a Space Designer (with any reverb setting) to Bus 1 (or any bus) and set this to Surround out as well.
5. Add a send on the track you added with the audio file to send to the bus with Space Designer.
6. Start playback from Bar 1, and let the audio file start. First play should sound ok.
7. Hit the Enter key (on the keypad-left) to restart playback from bar one.
At this point, is anyone else getting a few Pops??? before the audio file starts????
-Turning OFF Latency Compensation will get rid of the problem.
-Switching the tracks back to Stereo out or mono will stop the pops.
-Deleting the Space Designer Plugin instance will also stop the pops.
What's going on???
G5 dual 1.8GHz 2.5gig Ram Mac OS X (10.4.7)

Yep, same bug here…
A 5.1 impulse on an aux, give me about 2 seconds delay…
Same song opened with 9.0.2 aren't affected

Similar Messages

Space Designer Surround Bug

I'm pretty sure this a new bug...
In a surround session choosing a Surround IR in Space Designer results in a significant delay to the reverb. (not the case with a stereo IR) ... Anyone?
Logic 9.1 Snow Leopard 10.6.2
Keith Moore

Yep, same bug here…
A 5.1 impulse on an aux, give me about 2 seconds delay…
Same song opened with 9.0.2 aren't affected

Space Designer and surround

I can't seem to turn up any info on this so...
Does Space Designer support surround? Are there any surround IRs included?
Thanks.
JP

could you cobble something together? Maybe use aux objects set up with the same SD effect types. Send out appropriate levels of fx to each of the aux objects which will correspond to and output wet only signal to the bus/output objects carrying the surround components. I am not sat at my studio mac right now, so I can't think and speak specifically, but I remember trying something like this in an earlier version with some degree of success on a quadruphonic set up. Still a heath robinson way of doing something that should be a standard plugin in this day and age.

Space designer pop and clicks

Hi guys,
I have two work stations in my studio. on my secondary wrokstation, I run a 1.8 dual powermac with the latest Logic 7.2. Ever since I upgraded to OSX 10.4.10 I'm having problems with the space designer. it starts creating clicks, pops and distortions. I know it's the space designer, because when I remove it, everythings fine again.
any idea what's wrong? help is much appreciated! thanks

Have you tried increasing the audio buffer size by one notch to see if that fixes it?

Space Designer Plug-ins Not Loading

Hi, whenever I try to select a Space Designer plug-in with Logic Pro 8, I get a pop up which says 'no audio file selected' and asks me to 'please locate the file'. I've checked the Logic folder within the Application Support folder of the Library, and all the .pst files are there in the Plug-In Settings folder, but when I navigate to them from the pop up they are greyed out, making it impossible to select them manually anyway. All the other Plug-Ins (Compressor, Reverb, etc) seem to work fine. The problem only appears to exist with Space Designer.
Any help would be greatly appreciated.
Many thanks
Phil

Hi, and thanks for the reply. I couldn't find the Impulse Response folder you mentioned, but just for information, the pop up prompts me to locate the file (for example) '01.4s Jazz Vocal Room.SDIR', and in the bottom pane of the pop up it says 'No Audio FIle Selected', probably because I haven't located and selected the file it's looking for.
Thanks again
Phil

Match EQ, space designer and IRs

Hi, I encounter a problem with Logic studio 9 when trying to make an IR out of the differences between a raw guitar amp (mine) signal and an amp/cab/mic signal (not mine ). I used Match EQ to copy the second signal, it sounds very well. Then I did two pink noise .wav files, with and without the previous Match EQ settings. I used them to decode an IR with space designer, but the result sounds like a 50% wet IR. Did I miss anything ?

could you cobble something together? Maybe use aux objects set up with the same SD effect types. Send out appropriate levels of fx to each of the aux objects which will correspond to and output wet only signal to the bus/output objects carrying the surround components. I am not sat at my studio mac right now, so I can't think and speak specifically, but I remember trying something like this in an earlier version with some degree of success on a quadruphonic set up. Still a heath robinson way of doing something that should be a standard plugin in this day and age.

Changing sample rate corrupted space designer.... somehow.... HELP!

This is a new one to me, so it's very difficult to explain whats happened. I'll start from the beginning.
I created a new, blank logic file with a sample rate of 96.
I created a new software instrument and began to fill it out, adding some compression, some eq, and a little bit of reverb. The reverb came from space designer, using the small room preset "Thicken Vocals". So far so good. No problems, everything's working fine.
I open Reason to rewire in (and ultimately track and record) some drum samples out of reason. The sound is coming out of reason into an aux bus in Logic, and that aux bus is being used as the input for a new audio track. I lay down some midi notes, play back the drum audio out of Reason and hit record on the audio track, essentially making an audio file of the drum samples coming out of logic.
During this, something happens. Rewire is doing a LOT of work balancing the sync, the sample rate, etc.... and somehow, SOMETHING freaks out in the space designer i was using as some subtle reverb for my software instrument in logic (this software instrument is UNRELATED to the Reason audio).
Now, when i hit play, the space designer just produces a loud, annoying pop. If I CHANGE the space designer preset, everything is cool. If i change it back to "Thicken Vocals" under small rooms.... POP.
Worse, it seems to be a permanent problem.
SO --- Ive done a LOT of trying to figure out whats going on. I create a new document and recreate the software instrument. I browse to Thicken Vocals... POP! I tried to replace the IR that "thicken vocals" is referencing by overwriting the file from a system backup I have (an IR called "0.03s_Room Vocals")... still no dice.
Here's where it gets strange. It works FINE if the sample rate is 44.1... I can browse to "Thicken Vocals" and it loads up and init's fine, and everything is golden. As soon as I go to 96, or load it up when the document is set to 96, that's when it freaks out. NOW, if i adjust the falloff curves of the reverb just enough, THEN it suddenly works again, even under 96k.
So, in a nutshell, at 96k, when I load "thicken vocals"... it almost appears (even according to the waveform Space designer draws) to misread the IR waveform, and it plays back as a POP. If I adjust the Falloff curve, it corrects itself, and the waveform even redraws! At 44.1, there are no problems.
I did NOT have this problem before... does anyone have ANY clue what could be tweaking my system right now? I can post more details if I haven't posted enough... including pictures.
THANKS!!
Chris

You might have a corrupted song file. Possibly your autoload as well. Try trashing logic prefs and rebuilding you autoload. Also, repair permissions and maybe even try updating the prebinding in the terminal. Another possibility could be a conflict with the driver of the Audiowerk8, unlikely, but possible.

Having some Space Designer panning issues.

Hey all. I'm new to this board. I come with a bit of a problem. Hopefully, someone here can shed some light.
In learning how to use Logic, I was told to maximize my CPU resources by setting up as few instances of Space Designer (among other things) as possible. I was instructed to link two Aux Channel Strips, insert Space Designer (SD) and assign a Stereo Bus as input, and then Send whichever instruments to that Stereo Bus. I've up a few of these, using a different preset in each, depending on my need.
The problem is, when I send a mono instrument that is panned hard to one side, I get beautiful sounding reverberations, but the instrument heads more and more toward the center the more I Send to SD. Obviously, a little SD goes a long way, but there are instances where I would really like to control exactly how much gets panned left or right. I don't want all of my sound ending up in a murky, muddy soup in the center. Ideally I'd love for shared SD resource as I've described to be totally linked to the panning of the instrument. If panned hard left, then no SD at all on the right, and visa versa, and every step in between, all controlled by the panning
What am I doing wrong?
thnx, Rafiki

Rafik! wrote:
What am I doing wrong?
Your conception about the system verbs routing is wrong.
Let's have a look at the real world and haw the things are in the native acoustical surround. Imagine you are a listener sitting in the center of a big concert hall and the singer is singing from the left side of the stage. What you hear?
1. You will hear/feel that the singing is coming from the left side - this is the DRY path of the sound source. It is the faster one and it is direct, that's why the human ear determines where the signal is coming from.
2. There will be lots of WET signal reflections which go to different sides re-reflect ( depends on the hall architecture ) and as a whole they all will spread to the listener with a slight amount of latency.
In the DAW you can use different methods to manipulate the reverbs but it will be more effective if you use them as inserts and control the spread and pan using a Dir.Mixer plugin after reverb insert for example. You can set even to mono just to get some deepness and prevent any mud in the soundscape.
Finally you can add a bit little send of a system verb which give the listener a picture of some room ambience. You can also try to set the send to "Post-Pan"
though its main purpose is for headphone/stage monitoring most and special plugins side chain like Waves C1s/ch for example. Using with system verbs may cause anomaly. Note, some hardware mixers have one Mono Send/Out and two Returns/Stereo for example.
!http://img59.imageshack.us/img59/4967/aglogo45.gif!

Using Space Designer/Automation/Exciter/channel EQ / or Plug-in ?

Hi - I'm creating a piece which has piano (midi-keyboard) (Ivory ), Jam Pack solo flutes + English Horn, and EXS pop strings as background. There's also 1 min. of Voice Over (Audio) at the beginning. The music is polyphonic.
I'd like the final sound to be so that the solo woodwind instruments- and the piano -'stand out' from the mass of sound; a bit like the feeling of embossed note-paper, or having a halo of light around the head in religious paintings, but not as a really separate solo + accompaniment.
The piece should sound very 'immediate' and not like an ensemble playing far away in a concert hall. I've tweaked the piano sound in Ivory, to a very warm- though not fuzzy- one and will do the same for the flutes/English Horn, in Logic.
It seems that I could
1) use automation to alter the dynamics
2) use different *reverb settings* for each instrument - I like *Space Designer* and chose one: Warm Organ Cabinet with a very short reverb time (0.4s). But then I felt that a) I'd actually like a little longer reverb b) when I tried out other reverb settings the original instrumental sound changed.
3) Reading the Logic Manual, I wondered if the Exciter was suitable for this.
4) or should I use the *Channel EQ* ?
Logic has so many seeming possibilities, but perhaps there's much simpler way- an effect or Plug-In which I don't know about.
Please please pass on some ideas. I'm really enjoying the experimenting but am getting bogged down.
Thanks - as always,
Kay.

Hi Kay,
Stuff you might like to mess™ with, is the binaural panning function. You can both put things up front, to the back, above, below etc etc. Try the *Planar Mode* and its' (extra) parameters.
Clickhold the output slot of the track you want to use BiP on.
This menu appears, choose binaural:
The panpot changes in a binaural panner. If you doubleclick the knoblet, you get a floating window:
If you then click the triangle bottom right, you get some extra parameters to set:
Needless to say you can automate all those parameters if you wanted to move sound around.
Binaural panning is more CPU-taxing (it is no different than a plugin) than LR panning though, so freezing BP'd audiotracks can help if the CPU's hit the red too often, even if the track has no (other) active inserts on it.
regards, Erik.

I am having trouble using reverb of any kind; it does not sound natural, but rather "pixilated." Does anyone have any ideas for a solution? I have used Silververb and Space Designer and am having the same problem...

I am using Logic Pro 9 with two MXL 990 microphones in my piano and a Rode NT1A for vocals. I have tried recording with added reverb and keeping getting not a natural reverb sound, but a rather "pixilated" one that does not sound natural. Does anyone have any ideas on how to solve this issue? I have tried using Silververb and Space Designer, and both result in the same problems. Thank you!

This is asking for the impossible! It does not sound natural because maybe it isn't and in judging so whats your reference anyway. If you are in dire need of some natural sounding room you can go and record it yourself. But even then, the chances that it sounds like you imagined it, are very slim.
There are very decent sounding reverberation plugins, based on artificial reverb generators or convolution-style, the last one is said to sound more 'natural' then the first one. Be it as it maybe, it really is like cooking food. You got all the ingredients for this delicious taste at hand and believe it or not to reach a satisfying result this is not enough, because if you do not mix the ingredients in the right proportion you will end up with a different dish you thought you'll get. This is exactly the same when one would mix audio, I dare say.
So treat yourself to some good ingredients and the rest is up to you, namely: taste and experience!
And looking at some of my past music productions I always find the same plugins for the 'ambient' task:
Altiverb by Audio Ease when I have acoustic ensembles (classical music mostly), the Sony Oxford Reverb in studio productions, Bricasti when I have to deal with drums and MMultiBandReverb from MeldaProduction for all-round stuff. Thats the base I start from, after that I can end up with dozen Reverb plugins which basically all are doing the same thing but just in a tiny different way.

I am missing "Warped Effects within my Space Designer. Please help!!!

I downloaded Logic Pro 9 off app store and it appears that I am missing "Warped Effects" within my space designer. My friend is running exact same version of Logic Pro 9 and has this setting. I do not understand why this setting is not present on my Logic. I have downloaded all additional content besides the Jam Packs. Please help me!!! I really need the Warped Effects. I do not understand how my download ended up without them. Thanks.

Have you double checked to make sure ALL the additional content was correctly downlaoded and installed by going back to Download Additional Ciontent and checking each of the items by clicking on each of the little Disclosure Triangles...and making sure they all say Installed?
Alternatively you can simply click on the "Select All Uninstalled" button in the bottom left hand corner of the "Downlaod Addtional Content' window and then click the Install button in the bottom right hand corner.. if it will allow you to.

One instance of Space Designer for multiple instruments

Hi - I know that if you have - for example - four instances of an instrument all using the same Space Designer setting, you can have just one instance of the SD and use buses to send all the instruments to the same - somewhere - so they can all use it.
I've tried this but I obviously placed the SD in the wrong -somewhere - since they didn't find it.
Where is the correct place ?
Thanks -Kay.

Yes, that's the way to go.
It is a shame, by the way, that names assigned to Busses in the I/O labels dialog are global to all Projects, so if you go crazy at one time and use *and name* 17 Busses for parallel compression, this naming is reflected in all other Projects too. Also, configurations in older Projects ported from V6,7,8 will vary wildly as you have refined your Templates, shifted gear, sold hardware etc. over the years. I have recently worked on a Project started in 2003, and Bus names were all over the place. It is one thing to have indifferent Bus 13, Bus 14, Bus 15 shown in the Sends, but it's a whole other dimension when all the names are wrong like Guitars, Vocals, Moreme when actually they feed Delay 1, Headphone and Drums.
You can, however, work around this limitation. After copying the *IO Labels* file from User/Library/Application Support/Logic to a safe place like +Default IO Labels+, you can change the original to your liking and then copy that to your Project folder. This way you can throw the correct file back into the AppSupp folder when you're working on that Project later. You have to restart Logic for this to take effect.
Christian

Space designer causes crash - any suggestions??

Hello people
I just started running logic 8 on a new imac and I have a big problem with space designer.
Everything will be going sweet (well kinda). I open SD and things are still fine, but if I try to open any preset then it crashes. Complete freeze, have to force quite and try again...
This also stops me from opening any of my old Logic 7 songs as I use SD on most tracks, so I guess that is what is causing it to hang...
Any suggestions?
I have tried trashing the prefs, but no joy still.
Any help greatly appreciated.
Cheers
Justin

Now tried the same thing on iPad and iPad Mini. Didn't work and not even my documents show on iPad. Very frustrating as can't use Pages at all. Apple need to sort this.

Impulse Response editing - Do it the right way: IRs for Space Designer

Dear fellow board members,
after doing several research on this topic and many attempts to match some Impulse Responses I finally have to admit, that a little help or insight would be much appreciated. Most of the (Beamsonic) IRs, especially the Studer and Ampeg IRs, seem to have overlength (≈ 6 sec.) and some do have "silence" at the very beginning (see picture below).
I would be thankful for a helping hand explaining me, which part of this IR is of relevant importance: Do I need the "silence" tail at the end? What should I take care of when editing such IRs as the pictured one? Would only the marked yellow area be of importance? Get rid of the red areas (beginning & end)?
As many of the IRs I do have correspond to the image above, I have to go through heavy manual editing and before doing so, your help would be much appreciated.
Does anybody have gone through this before and would like to exchange some of his material for the Space Designer (IRs + corresponding Presets)? I am looking for: EMT 250, Studer A80 Tape, other Tape Sats as well, Ampeg, Westlake Studio D, other useful top quality IRs as well.
For now, many thanks in advance for sharing interest
Vic.
Mac OS X (10.3.8)

1. You maybe want to comment on what is considered to be the
"technical right way" to achieve DAW Tape Saturation via IRs, i.e.
what makes sense and what not?
Really, there is no technical right way - all we are doing is altering our recorded audio in a way that we like - it will vary depending on your tools, your tastes, the material, the artistic intent etc...
a - Insert the Convolution Reverb right on the Audio Channel
itself with Pre/Post-Compression/EQing, etc.
I will do this if I want to process an individual channel for colour. Remember to set the effect to 100% wet.
b - Send audio to a Convolution Reverb Bus (and share w/multiple
audio channels), loss of quality, etc?
You're just sending a bunch of channels - in convolution terms, the results as far as I know will be the same if you process 10 channels indivdually and sum them, compared to if you sum the 10 channels then convolute them. Remember, convolution is a static process in most tools, including Space Designer.
How would you judge the value of using "Impulse Responses"
in comparison to "Plug-Ins"?
Well, I don't think anyone's done a tape saturation plugin properly yet. I'm not an expert in this field, but had some interesting discussions with one of the Sonalksis developers over on KVR who is heavily researching into tape saturation (he's doing a doctorate in the subject) and he thinks that it is possible to do a decent tape saturation plugin - not easy by a long stretch, but possible, so I'm sure we will eventually see decent plugs appearing.
Having said that, I'm not actually a huge fan of the tape sound anyway - I like the impulses for that colour if I need it, but I certainly don't run everything through it. I don't really like the smeared transients, at least on my "less natural" pieces. Rock music (as an example) may well work better.
The plugins that do saturation in varying amounts are a mixed bag in my opinion. A lot of people love VintageWarmer, but I'm not that keen on it (again, I'm not an "expert" by a long stretch, these are just my personal opinions).
I've had some great results using Guitar Amp Pro for saturation and warming (we're talking subtle stuff here) on drums and guitars.
There are a bunch of other plugs too, but none that I have used to tape saturation. DUY's tape does saturation, but not really accurate tape simulation *from what I have heard* - I haven't used it personally myself. Charles Dye seems to like it, anyway!
. Finally: Did anybody experiance differences in quality when
comparing Convolution Reverbs (i.e. SD vs Altiverb vs Waves) in
processing the same IR?
In general, no. Mathmatical convolution is afaiu a mathmatically "perfect" process, much like the adding of audio signals in the digital realm. As long as you know how to do the maths correctly, there should be no difference, given the same IR (it's the IR that really determines the quality of the output).
Of course, different plugs implement things differently, and have different features, but by and large, the convolution engines these things use should be generally the same.
Again, I'm no expert and haven't done exhaustive testing or anything - this info comes from discussions I have and my understanding of these processes from a DSP point of view. Other may well be able to back up or debunk what I've said, so I'll leave the floor to them now...

Slow loading of IR's in Space Designer

When i load an Impulse response in space designer, it takes at least 20-30 seconds with a frozen Logic, before it loads.
I suppose Space Designer is looking for IR's but i don't know why.
Anybody experienced the same?

Slow is not so easy to calculate...
Slow as Seconds?
Minutes?
They are original Apple IRs or from 3rd Party ones?
there is some warning message during loading?
How much free space size is in your System Hard Drive?
I hope more than 25 or better 30% free space of the total disk size!
G

Space Designer / Surround / & Pops

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