STP 2.0 Ls Rs problem in surround panner?

I have an audio track that I only want heard in the rear (Ls and Rs) -- so if I move the head point to the rear I hear very faint audio from my Ls and Rs speakers (even with max vol settings).
As a work around to this problem I use the rotation value and rotate 180 degrees which provides clear loud audio in my Ls and Rs speakers.
I'm also a Logic Pro 7 user -- when using the very same audio file (Electrical Noise 2.aiff) the surround panner in Logic works as expected -- meaning I move head point to the rear and audio is place in the Ls and Rs. This also validates that I have all my hardware/speakers setup correctly.
So I guess I'm a little confused at why STP is different than Logic Pro and why I need to rotate 180 degrees in surround panner to get good volume out of my Ls and Rs channels?
Did I miss something obvious? The submixes are set to Surround 1-6. Is this a bug or did Apple decide that the Logic Pro 7 version is wrong and STP way is right??
Very confused.
Rob.

Hi Rob,
I was trying to do the same thing (pan a stereo signal to just the Ls Rs speakers), and I think I found a way to get it to work. Try setting the collapse parameter all the way to the right.
Then, if you drag the panner puck about 1/2 of the way back (between the first and second concentric circles on the big panner), you'll see that the left and right blobby things are right in front of the Ls and Rs speakers, and the stereo track comes out of Ls & Rs exclisively. That seemed to work for me. Does that avoid the rotate 180 degrees approach you were using?

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Surround Panner using realtime

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It depends on your budget. MOTU interfaces are excellent. Something like the MOTU Ultralite is great:
http://www.motu.com/products/motuaudio/ultralite-mk3/
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http://www.focusrite.com/products/#ranges_saffire
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Thank you for the info, though I admit I'm still a bit confused.
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Date: Mon, 1 Jun 2009 21:58:08 -0600
From: [email protected]
To: [email protected]
Subject: output channel mapping problem for surround encoder

Hola, tengo un problema al editar 7.1 surround. Configuro el proyecto para que sea 7.1 y tengo todo listo pero en el surround panner solo me aparecen 5 canales. No me salen los laterales. Que puedo hacer para tenerlos y que que en el bounce me lo haga con

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5.1 surround panning angle problem

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Thanks for the suggestion. When viewing the auitomation data (which by the way is not truly MIDI, it's numbers from 0 to 359 representing degrees from front center, numbers that I created by dragging on the surround panner with the mouse), it's clear that the angle is being represented as 0 degrees and upward as it moves clockwise from the front center, and 359 degrees and downward as it moves counter-clockwise from front center. The problem occurs when the sound's location moves ACROSS that front center axis (a perfectly normal and logical thing for it to do to create the illusion of left-right or right-left movement), because the automation data leaps from one extreme to another (such as from 2 to 359 in my example). Well, as Logic sets the intensity of each channel sample-by-sample as it pans, it naturally has to interpolate between angle values. But Logic is apparently programmed to do that interpolation directly EVEN WHEN the panning value goes from extremely low to extremely high or vice versa. So, instead of Logic "realizing" that a change of paning angle from 2 to 359 should be interpreted as a slight move across the front center axis, it apparently interpolates UPWARD from 2 to 359, creating a wild clockwise circular swoop. So, ...
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Here are a couple great testers for my problem:
This surround sound only works if dolby digital is on: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6H6a-...eature=related
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The Send as SMS has nothing to do with that. Send as SMS is only done if an iMessage has a send failure message. No settings need to be changed to send an SMS to someone who doesn't have iMessage.
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Surround panning problem

Hi,
I've just installed Logic Studio and have been testing out the surround capabilities. I have set a channel to output in surround and can adjust the position using the small panning view (that appears above the fader). However, I know you can double click on this to load a bigger panning control, but I can't seem to be able to do this. When I double click it seems like the Panner begins to load but then just closes again - I see a small pop-up window for a split second but then it disappears. Does anyone have any ideas why this is?
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Thanks for the suggestion. When viewing the auitomation data (which by the way is not truly MIDI, it's numbers from 0 to 359 representing degrees from front center, numbers that I created by dragging on the surround panner with the mouse), it's clear that the angle is being represented as 0 degrees and upward as it moves clockwise from the front center, and 359 degrees and downward as it moves counter-clockwise from front center. The problem occurs when the sound's location moves ACROSS that front center axis (a perfectly normal and logical thing for it to do to create the illusion of left-right or right-left movement), because the automation data leaps from one extreme to another (such as from 2 to 359 in my example). Well, as Logic sets the intensity of each channel sample-by-sample as it pans, it naturally has to interpolate between angle values. But Logic is apparently programmed to do that interpolation directly EVEN WHEN the panning value goes from extremely low to extremely high or vice versa. So, instead of Logic "realizing" that a change of paning angle from 2 to 359 should be interpreted as a slight move across the front center axis, it apparently interpolates UPWARD from 2 to 359, creating a wild clockwise circular swoop. So, ...
I can't see how I can fool Logic into not doing that, and "smoothing" the transistion with additional data doesn't really solve the problem if it's occuring internally in Logic's samplewise interpolation scheme.

Is it even possible to edit surround sound on a Mac Pro?!?!?!

Hello,
I've just been reading this thread:
http://discussions.apple.com/thread.jspa?messageID=2924869?
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Any help greatly appreciated!
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Typically 5.1 is mixed, and monitored on a 5.1 monitoring system, which means you need an audio interface and setup capable of outputting six channels of audio.
So of course the Mac Pro is capable, but not without additional multi-channel playback and monitoring hardware.
Encoded surround sound, which you hear on playback from things like a DVD, is entirely different story and the encoding is done at the end of the mixing/mastering process. Sometimes you will encode a mix in a variety of formats, Dolby Pro Logic, DTS etc.

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Mr. Ahmed,
Excuse-me by my bad english.
I experienced the same problem when surrounded my scripts with comment caracters:

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Mr. Ahmed,
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How to get Surround Sound to work With Itunes 7 and Stop Skipping

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Unlike many of you I purchased Logic 8 to do surround sound mixing. I liked the fact that it included Sound track Pro. I quickly realized after purchasing it that soundtrack pro had its limitations with regard to doing full audio post for film projects that i am accustomed to doing here in Los Angeles. I turned to Logic as an alternative only to find out that the surround panner is inadequate and somewhat limited when trying to automate it. The issue is that when trying to do a 360 degree pan counter clockwise the node reverses itself clockwise once you cross the 180 degree position in the plane or center of the rear speakers and then continues its counter clockwise 360 degree path. This causes a noticeable stutter in the audio as there is a 1 to 2 millisecond delay that occurs. This also occurs when moving the node from left to right across the rear speakers. I have posted this message to bring attention to this issue in hopes of getting this resolved quickly. I have used many surround sound programs and this is the first time that i have ever encountered this type of problem.

DJWillis wrote:
Since this morphed a little into a Logic vs PT threads as for benefits and drawback, one question always occurs to me when I see any post on surround sound: do you know ANYONE who has a surround sound system in their home who is just a regular consumer, and not a pro audio person testing a mix?
I don't. Surround sound is only for theatrical releases, and it's just small component of seeing a film. No one goes or doesn't go to a movie because it does or doesn't have dolby blah blah surround up the wazoo! Who cares? No one. They just want to see a good movie.
I'm always amazed that this marketing gimmick has had any impact. I mix music in stereo. Period. When I edit movies I edit in stereo. Period. No one has ever asked for surround for delivery. But then again, I won't work for the studios.
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Sorry to rant, but it's all just so silly. Going from mono to stereo was awesome I'm sure in its day. Same for going from black & white to color and silent to sound. And from VHS to DVD.
But from stereo to surround? Pass. I'm not stringing up a bunch of speakers around the living room because my life is so boring I need to hear sounds behind me when I'm watching a movie!
Hi DJ,
My next door neighbor has a 7.1 system, and has a few audio-only titles. He wishes there were more.
My uncle, a general contractor, also has a 5.1 system in his home, and mostly watches movies with it. He does have an Eagles concert DVD in surround, and likes it a lot.
When I went to Circuit City, which is going out of business, I asked the pro sound guy what was flying off the shelves, and he stated two things : cameras, and surround theater systems.
As to your statement in red, you should probably become a member of either the NARAS, or the AES, they have both conducted research, with doctors both of physics and medicine, about what is more important, both consciously, and sub-consciously, to a human observer, when viewing a moving picture, both with and without sound.
Both guilds agreed that the sound was more important in judging the realism, and therefore what was believed, than any picture without sound, or an picture with poor sound. The determining factor for when an observer was more involved in the experience always ended up being related to the sound, and it's quality, or lack thereof.
And this research was done a while ago. A nice Canadian fellow has been conducting research on this since 1969 :
http://www.psych.mcgill.ca/labs/auditory/laboratory.html
And his book :
http://www.psych.mcgill.ca/labs/auditory/book.html
Let me know if it's too deep for ya... I'll try to find something a little less technical.
Cheers

STP 2.0 Ls Rs problem in surround panner?

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