Sun Update Connection Proxy

Hello all!
I have a local Patchserver, configured like this:
patchsrv setup -l
Patch source URL: https://getupdates.sun.com/solaris/
Cache Location: /var/sadm/spool/patchsvr
Web proxy host name: ip-address-of-proxy
Web proxy port number: port-of-proxy
And a Patchmanager refering to it:
smpatch get
patchpro.backout.directory - ""
patchpro.download.directory - /var/sadm/spool
patchpro.install.types - rebootafter:reconfigafter:standard
patchpro.patch.source http://ip-address-of-patchserver:3816/solaris/ https://updateserver.sun.com/solaris/
patchpro.patchset - patchdb
patchpro.proxy.host - ""
patchpro.proxy.passwd **** ****
patchpro.proxy.port - 8080
patchpro.proxy.user - ""
patchpro.sun.passwd **** ****
patchpro.sun.user - ""
smpatch analyze produces the following:
Cannot connect to retrieve detectors: Server returned HTTP response code: 500 for URL: http://ip-address-of-patchserver:3816/solaris/
can anybody help me?
Thanx in advance

The problem is that whilst what Barry Greenberg originally published would have worked at the time (after the reader had gone to the trouble of correcting a few errors), the feature itself was broken shortly afterwards by a newer revision of the patch. As of this time the tools to develop custom baselines have not been and will not be created in the current form of Sun UC software.
The feature to create custom is available in the Sun Connection (formerly Sun UCE, or Aduva) and may be a feature of smpatch/updatemanager in the future, but we are not in a position to be able to tell you as we at this time do not know.
We have actually been campaigning to have this document removed or updated since the beginning of the year, originally due to the errors, but later as a result of major changes that completely broke the previously 'undocumented' feature. The page was meant to have been removed late yesterday in a maintenance push on the BigAdmin site, but as you are aware this has not happened.
Please disregard the document.

Similar Messages

  • How Sun Update Connection Proxy really works

    Hi,
    Apolgies if this question is in the FAQ, but the FAQ link in the header text of this forum gives me a 404.
    I've been trawling the docs on Sun Update Connection Proxy and trying to understand how it works with regards caching. The docs are quite detailed in how to set it up, for example how to point to a proxy using http://<proxy-name>:3816 etc., and how to install patchsvr and how to start it.
    What seems to be missing from the manuals IMHO (and this all might become blatantly obvious once I've been using it a while) is any details on how the smpatch update process works end-to-end through a proxy, e.g. I know how to change the cache location using the patchsvr command but how and when is anything stored in that location? What are all the files and directories that reside under /var/sadm/spool, and how many of these relate to a proxy (LPS) server?
    Is smpatch supposed to clear out the .jar files in there or do I need to set up a job to do that regularly?
    Hope someone can point me in the right direction.

    Inside /var/sadm/spool there are several directories, I won't describe all of them, but for most purposes this should be enough:
    Client:
    /var/sadm/spool/cache/Database - stores patchsets (current2, etc)
    /var/sadm/spool/cache/xml - stores the MoTD files
    /var/sadm/spool/cache/entitlement - stores the entitlement file (note this is generated by the server on each request)
    /var/sadm/spool/cache/updatemanager/analysis.results - if you have the swupAuto cron job, this directory is used to hold analysis to speed up UM launch
    /var/sadm/spool/cache/ReadMe - holds the patch readme's (mostly for use with UM)
    /var/sadm/spool/cache/collection - holds a file containing information about available patchsets
    /var/sadm/spool/cache/category - holds a file describing the types of patches (currently Update Tools, Security, Recommended, and Generic)
    /var/sadm/spool/sunucLog - holds job_history.log
    Proxy:
    /var/sadm/spool/patchsvr - this holds all files required for analysis and patches with URL-encoded filenames, the files used to be stored in a more hierarchical directory structure, but this changed a few patch revisions ago.
    As for cleaning, in general it is safe to delete all files under /var/sadm/spool/cache/ as all of the patches are stored at /var/sadm/spool/ and most other files should be replaced on a regular basis automatically, however you may want to remove all of the patches too once you have completed your patching sessions - this is not done automatically. On the proxy you might not want to be so thorough - you would normally want to keep the patches (or at least keep the most recent ones - 180 days in this example):
    # cd /var/sadm/spool/patchsvr
    # ls | grep -v all_signed | xargs rm
    # find /var/sadm/spool/patchsvr/ -mtime +180 -exec rm {} \;Does this answer your questions, or do you need further explanation?

  • Sun Update Connection

    I have several hundred Solaris 10 boxes (with a current Sun support contract) on an internal (i.e. isolated from the Internet) network. I would like to set up a Sun Update Connection proxy for Solaris patches only. Is it possible to download (and periodically update) the files needed for the proxy server (patches, database, etc.) using a web browser by hand? Moving the proxy server between the Internet and the internal network is not possible.

    Thanks. The "Enterprise edition Sun Connection" is the same as "Sun Connection-Customer Satellite", correct? If so, am I also correct that, although the Solaris 10 Update Channel is included with my support contract, the Satellite software needs to be purchased separately?

  • Does update connection proxy store patches for other servers

    I have following set-up ( all running sol 10 )
    Server A : E250 , has connection to internet. runs update connection proxy and update manager.
    update manager uses update connection proxy on the same server to get sun patches. This server is registered on SUN web site.
    Server B: V440 NO connection to internet , runs update manager which connects to update connection proxy on SERVER A.
    Suppose a patch becomes available for a Sun Driver that I have installed on SERVER B but NOT on SERVER A .
    Will the update connection proxy running in SERVER A download the patch for that driver and pass it to SERVER B update manager to be applied ? Altough SERVER A does not need that patch ?
    I would expect the answer to this to be YES , otherwise I do not see any value of running update connection proxy !!
    Is anyone able to answer this ??
    Thanks

    Yes - The primary purpose of the Sun Update Connection Proxy is to provide patches to machines (like Server B) which cannot directly reach the internet.
    In a nutshell, you should see no difference in the behaviour of Update Manager on Server B when pointing it directly at Sun, and pointing it at a Sun Update Connection Proxy that in turn points to Sun.
    What will happen is:
    Server B: will run analysis against the full patch set, and decide which patches are applicable to Server B. It will recommend any patch that meets the appropriate criteria for Server B. If a patch is recommended, you can select it for installation, and Server B will then request the patch from Server A, if Server A doesn't happen to have this patch already, it will in turn "proxy" this download from Sun, cache the patch and return it to Server B.
    Hope this helps,
    -ethan

  • Sun Update Connection Server Maintenance Notice 2005.12.22

    Synopsis: Sun Update Connection Service Maintenance
    Start Time: Thur 12 Dec 2005 8:00PM EST (20:00 GMT -5)
    End Time: Thur 12 Dec 2005 10:00PM EST (22:00 GMT -5)
    NOTICE AND END USER INSTRUCTIONS
    The Sun Update Connection will undergo a routine maintenance Thursday, 12/22. Customers connected to the the service during the maintenance may experience a disconnect. and will have to login again.
    CONTACTS
    If you have additional questions, please send an email to [email protected]

    Hi
    I am getting following error about every 15 mins since Jan 07, 2006 evening.
    Jan 7 21:50:41 jp-script SRS Proxy[3822]: [ID 728115 daemon.error] File upload failure: exceeded maximum retry count
    Jan 7 22:11:40 jp-script SRS Proxy[3822]: [ID 728115 daemon.error] File upload failure: exceeded maximum retry count
    Jan 7 22:31:36 jp-script SRS Proxy[3822]: [ID 728115 daemon.error] File upload failure: exceeded maximum retry count
    Jan 7 22:50:29 jp-script SRS Proxy[3822]: [ID 728115 daemon.error] File upload failure: exceeded maximum retry count
    Jan 7 23:11:24 jp-script SRS Proxy[3822]: [ID 728115 daemon.error] File upload failure: exceeded maximum retry count
    Jan 7 23:31:38 jp-script SRS Proxy[3822]: [ID 728115 daemon.error] File upload failure: exceeded maximum retry count
    Jan 7 23:50:41 jp-script SRS Proxy[3822]: [ID 728115 daemon.error] File upload failure: exceeded maximum retry count
    Jan 8 00:11:57 jp-script SRS Proxy[3822]: [ID 728115 daemon.error] File upload failure: exceeded maximum retry count
    I ran /opt/SUNWsrspx/bin/srspxrun -p and got SUCCESSFUL PING. I also ran this /opt/SUNWsrspx/bin/srspxstat and found nothing unusual.
    Any suggestion on how to fix it?
    Thanks

  • Welcome to the Sun Update Connection forum.

    Welcome to the Sun Update Connection forum. Sun Update Connection services lets you analyze and update your systems and stay up to date from anywhere-while providing easy access to patches and software updates. The Sun Update Connection, System Edition incorporates a number of exciting features. These features* include access to all Solaris 10 software updates (security fixes, device drivers, recommended updates and feature updates) through the following update mechanisms:
    � Sun[sm] Update Manager � A client-side application with a graphical user interface (GUI) and command-line interface (CLI) for locally managing updates on your system
    � Sun[sm] Update Connection - Sun-hosted Web application for remotely managing updates on one or more of your systems
    � Update Connection Proxy - A local caching proxy server which serves updates from Sun to the client systems that are inside your enterprise security domain. (requires use of Sun Update Manager.)
    � SunSolve Patch & Updates Portal - A venue for downloading patches and obtaining patch readme's
    For more information about these tools, please see the following documentation:
    - Sun Update Manager 1.0 Administration Guide
    - Sun Update Connection 1.0 Administration Guide
    - smpatch(1M) man page
    - patchsvr(1M) man page
    - Sun Update Connection, System Edition 1.0 Preview
    Release: Installation Guide and Release Notes
    * Please note that in the future, some features will require a valid Sun Service Plan. Please see the "Get Started" Page for more information.
    http://www.sun.com/updateconnection/getstarted
    You can also access a Frequently Asked Questions (FAQ) document from the Sun Update Connection services web application by clicking Help or directly at
    http://www.sun.com/service/sunupdate/faq.html
    And of course, you can post questions here on the Sun Update Connection forum and we will do our best to respond.
    Happy updating,
    Sun Update Connection Offering Team

    .

  • Sun Update Connection Client 1.0.8 now available

    The Sun Update Connection System client, version 1.0.8 is now available as
    software update 121118-08 (SPARC) or 121119-08 (x86). Version 1.0.8
    is the biggest update we have produced since the initial release of the Sun Update
    Connection and includes the following enhancements:
    o Sun Update Manager has a brand new user interface which includes a new
    look and icons, numerous usability improvements such as better progress
    reporting and the ability to print/save installed and available patch lists and
    patch README files.
    o Support for Solaris Live Upgrade so patches can be added to an inactive
    alternate boot environment.
    o The Solaris 10 SMF configuration framework is now used to trigger the
    installation of patches with special handling requirements (single user mode
    or restart-after required) which will improve compatibility and reliability.
    o The version 1.0.8 client uses a new Sun-hosted patch server that outsources
    content delivery to Akamai. This enables us to provide superior download
    performance to our customers worldwide.
    For a complete list of the defects corrected in this release please
    refer to the patch README file for this patch. Note also that this
    update includes fixes that were delivered in prior releases of the
    Sun Update Connection client software patch. By installing this update
    you may be getting fixes that were previously available but not present
    on your system.
    Sun Update Connection Hosted application has been refreshed to include
    numerous user interface adjustments and fixes that have been suggested by a
    customer focus group usability study. Although there are no new features,
    the usability of the product is substantially improved.
    Thank You,
    Sun Update Connection Team

    On the SunStudio Patches - I dont believe that this will be fully fixed since part of the problem is the patches themselves. I however do not have access to a SunStudio installed test system at present so I'd be interested to hear feedback from someone who has tried installing these through the SunUC 1.0.8 toolset
    Fonts - I believe that greater flexibility will be coming in future releases. Work on the Update Manager gui is still ongoing
    Patch server - Yes the SunUC proxy will use the new servers providing it has been upgarded to 1.0.8
    Sun4u patch - This is an issue with the patch metadata being incorrect and not the toolset.

  • Sun Update Connection Service Maintenance - 9th September, 2006

    Sun Update Connection Maintenance Outage
    Date : 9th September 2006
    Start Time: 0700 EST, 1200 BST
    End Time : 0730 EST, 1230 BST
    Description of maintenance / outage:
    The Sun Update Connection will undergo a routine maintenance Saturday 9th September 2006 from 0700 EST to 0730 EST. The Sun Update Connection service will be unavailable during this maintenance.
    When the maintenance is complete, a notice will be posted on the Sun Update Connection announcement and FAQ forum at :
    http://forum.sun.com/jive/forum.jspa?forumID=335
    Thank You,
    Sun Update Connection Team

    Hi
    I am getting following error about every 15 mins since Jan 07, 2006 evening.
    Jan 7 21:50:41 jp-script SRS Proxy[3822]: [ID 728115 daemon.error] File upload failure: exceeded maximum retry count
    Jan 7 22:11:40 jp-script SRS Proxy[3822]: [ID 728115 daemon.error] File upload failure: exceeded maximum retry count
    Jan 7 22:31:36 jp-script SRS Proxy[3822]: [ID 728115 daemon.error] File upload failure: exceeded maximum retry count
    Jan 7 22:50:29 jp-script SRS Proxy[3822]: [ID 728115 daemon.error] File upload failure: exceeded maximum retry count
    Jan 7 23:11:24 jp-script SRS Proxy[3822]: [ID 728115 daemon.error] File upload failure: exceeded maximum retry count
    Jan 7 23:31:38 jp-script SRS Proxy[3822]: [ID 728115 daemon.error] File upload failure: exceeded maximum retry count
    Jan 7 23:50:41 jp-script SRS Proxy[3822]: [ID 728115 daemon.error] File upload failure: exceeded maximum retry count
    Jan 8 00:11:57 jp-script SRS Proxy[3822]: [ID 728115 daemon.error] File upload failure: exceeded maximum retry count
    I ran /opt/SUNWsrspx/bin/srspxrun -p and got SUCCESSFUL PING. I also ran this /opt/SUNWsrspx/bin/srspxstat and found nothing unusual.
    Any suggestion on how to fix it?
    Thanks

  • Update connection proxy only listening on interface 127.0.0.1

    I have installed S10 6/06 on an e450 and have added the patchserver patch/packages.
    Configured the patchserver and registered it with sun update connection.
    I can get the e450 to download and cache patches if I set the update proxy URL to
    "http://localhost:3816/solaris." and run updatemanager to download and apply patches.
    BUT If I change the URL to "http://e450-1:3816/solaris" I get "! Error:Unable to download
    document: "collection/default" Cannot connect to retrieve collection/default: Bad Gateway"
    e450-1 is this hosts name. I get the same result if I use the fully qualified hostname.
    Of course I get the same error when I attempt to patch a local client using the local proxy.
    This suggests that proxy server is only binding to the 127.0.0.1 interface and not the other
    network interfaces. Any suggestions where to look for errors etc / how to correct the configuration of the server?
    e450-1> smpatch get
    patchpro.backout.directory "" ""
    patchpro.download.directory /var/sadm/spool /var/sadm/spool
    patchpro.install.types - rebootafter:reconfigafter:standard
    patchpro.patch.source http://localhost:3816/solaris/ https://getupdates1.sun.com/solaris/
    patchpro.patchset - current
    patchpro.proxy.host webgate.canterbury.ac.nz ""
    patchpro.proxy.passwd **** ****
    patchpro.proxy.port 3128 8080
    patchpro.proxy.user agw50 ""
    root@e450-1> patchsvr setup -l
    Patch source URL: https://getupdates.sun.com/solaris/
    Cache Location: /var/sadm/spool/patchsvr
    Web proxy host name: webgate.canterbury.ac.nz
    Web proxy port number: 3128
    Web proxy user: *****
    If

    No all interfaces are configured correctly - they work for all other applications.
    For the record
    /etc/inet/
    root@e450-1> ifconfig -a
    lo0: flags=2001000849<UP,LOOPBACK,RUNNING,MULTICAST,IPv4,VIRTUAL> mtu 8232 index 1
    inet 127.0.0.1 netmask ff000000
    hme0: flags=1000843<UP,BROADCAST,RUNNING,MULTICAST,IPv4> mtu 1500 index 2
    inet 132.181.20.12 netmask ffffff00 broadcast 132.181.20.255
    ether 8:0:20:87:b2:41
    qfe0: flags=1000843<UP,BROADCAST,RUNNING,MULTICAST,IPv4> mtu 1500 index 3
    inet 192.168.23.2 netmask ffffffe0 broadcast 192.168.23.31
    ether 8:0:20:93:54:18
    /etc/inet/
    root@e450-1> more /etc/hostname.*
    /etc/hostname.hme0
    e450-1
    /etc/hostname.qfe0
    e450-1e
    /etc/inet/
    root@e450-1> m ipnodes
    # Internet host table
    ::1 localhost
    127.0.0.1 localhost
    132.181.20.12 e450-1 loghost
    192.168.23.2 e450-1e
    /etc/inet/
    root@e450-1> m hosts
    # Internet host table
    127.0.0.1 localhost
    132.181.20.12 e450-1 loghost
    # 192.168.23.0/27
    # netmask 255.255.255.224|ffffffe0
    #192.168.23.0-31
    192.168.23.1 ue2s-0b #qfe0
    192.168.23.2 e450-1e
    192.168.23.3 e220-0a
    192.168.23.5 daktari-e
    192.168.23.6 v440-0-e
    192.168.23.9 v100-0e
    192.168.23.10 netra-0a
    192.168.23.12 e450-0f
    192.168.23.13 intel460
    192.168.23.14 netgear7224
    192.168.23.15 blackbox
    192.168.23.17 v210-0-e
    192.168.23.18 se3310
    The only app that is unaware of the hme0/qfe0 interfaces is the http patchsvr.
    Allen

  • Update Connection Proxy with temporary internet connection

    Hi,
    I have a lot of systems which are not allowed to connect to the internet - and even are not allowed to connect to a system, which is connected to the internet.
    Is it possible to connect the Update Connection Proxy only temporary to the internet, to download the patches. Then disconnect it and connect it to the clients to do the update on the clients.
    Or is a internet connection required during the update.
    Regards,
    Hans-Juergen

    It is not possible to use smpatch/updatemanager in a disconnected environment regardless of whether or not a Sun UC Proxy (aka LPS) is being used.
    The reason is that there will be no way to get the data to the disconnected environment. All of the LPS download mechanisms are driven by demand from a client; there are no mechanisms for bulk downloading data which has not been requested.
    So unless your clients are able to connect to the LPS while it is temporarily connected to the internet, Sun UC will not work for patching your clients.
    Your best option at present would be to use patch clusters or to look into the Sun Connection 1.1.1 or xVM Ops Center software.
    Edited by: ForumModerator on 03-Mar-2008 22:02

  • Managing patches with Sun Update Connection

    I have just started using updatemanager to download and install my patches and found some issues I would like to discuss.
    First, the patch that updates the software to version 1.0.3 (121119-03) was not available on updatemanager itself. I found it on the sunsolve site by accident.
    Second, from the 20 patches available for me to install, 19 failed. The ones that needed reboot "succeeded" but upon shutdown they failed one by one. Even though the failure reasons were ok, like there is a newer patch revision already installed, I think updatemanager could handle all this dependency and versioning thing automatically, and suppress these patches from the list of available patches or at least show them with different status.
    Third, I am not sure how to use Sun Update Connection on a systematic basis for keeping my system up to date. Should I install all patches available or not? I don't want to lose time reading all patch descriptions to find out which patches are necessary or not. Is there a straightforward way?
    Am I missing something or is updatemanager really just falling short of my expectations?
    -- Douglas

    To repeat a comment I made in another thread, I agree with datique on this. UM should have a way to say "ignore this patch, I don't want it and never want to see it again". Of course, it needs to keep track of any dependencies there may be later on down the road. The example I gave in the other thread involved the GigaSwift update being needed on my Blade 100 at home.
    This isn't meant as a gripe, but a suggestion. I realize that UM is a new tool, and many things like this need to be (are?) hammered out with community feedback.
    Rainer

  • Sun Update Connection install fails on Patch 119574-02

    Just finished installing Solaris 10 (3/05) on my brand new Sun Blade 1500. I then downloaded the latest version of Sun Update Connection, but the installer fails as follows:
    # ./installUpdateConnection
    Adding patch 119574-02
    Validating patches...
    Loading patches installed on the system...
    Done!
    Loading patches requested to install.
    Done!
    Checking patches that you specified for installation.
    Done!
    Approved patches will be installed in this order:
    119574-02
    Checking installed patches...
    Verifying sufficient filesystem capacity (dry run method)...
    Patch 119574-02 failed to install due to a failure produced by pkgadd.
    See /var/sadm/patch/119574-02/log for details
    Patchadd is terminating.The above log file reads as follow:
    # cat /var/sadm/patch/119574-02/log
    This appears to be an attempt to install the same architecture and
    version of a package which is already installed.  This installation
    will attempt to overwrite this package.
    /export/home/richard.cross/updateConnection/patches/119574-02/SUNWcsu/install/checkinstall: /export/home/richard.cross/updateConnection/patches/119574-02/SUNWcsu/install/checkinstall: cannot open
    pkgadd: ERROR: checkinstall script did not complete successfully
    Dryrun complete.
    No changes were made to the system.Where have I gone wrong? I haven't done anything to my system between installing Solaris 10 and downloading SUC, so why is it complaining about an existing patch?

    Solved it. Solution is to move all of the patches into /var/spool/pkg and run patchadd on each one in there (in the right order).

  • Need to download Sun Update Connection - Enterprise

    Where would I download the Sun Update Connection - Enterprise 1.x .tgz file?

    You can download it using this https://cds.sun.com/is-bin/INTERSHOP.enfinity/WFS/CDS-CDS_SMI-Site/en_US/-/USD/ViewProductDetail-Start?ProductRef=SunUCE-OTH-G-F@CDS-CDS_SMI ]
    In case you do not already have a license you will need to contact Sales. See http://www.sun.com/service/sunconnection/get.jsp for more information.

  • Smpatch vs Sun Update Connection

    What does Sun Update Connection offer that I
    can't get by just using the 'smpatch' tool on Solaris?
    Besides telling Sun all about my machine and its
    configuration?
    There are no screen shots or lists of specific concrete
    features on the web site. It's all very abstract, and I
    don't have time to download and install it just to figure out
    what it is.
    --chris                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                   

    I shouldn't have said "are no screen shots etc" I should have
    said "I can't find any...".
    Also, I should have compared Update Connection with
    "Sun Update Manager" GUI client. That's what I use
    now to download and install patches.
    Will the Update Connection client give me something different?
    Or are these just two competing products from Sun that
    do the same thing?
    (By the way maybe this should be a FAQ)
    --chris                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                       

  • Sun Update Connection Certificate Update - Install by 23-Feb-2006

    Important Notice: Sun Update Connection has updated the certificates we use to secure our communication channels. To ensure continued service, you will need to apply a special software update before February 23, 2006.
    The specific patch IDs are:
    122231-01 (Solaris SPARC) - http://sunsolve.sun.com/search/document.do?assetkey=1-21-122231-01-1
    122232-01 (Solaris x86/x64) - http://sunsolve.sun.com/search/document.do?assetkey=1-21-122232-01-1
    After February 23 you can use the following command on your managed systems
    to install the appropriate patch to enable management at the Sun Update Connection
    application:
    smpatch update -i 122231-01 (for SPARC clients)
    smpatch update -i 122232-01 (for x86 clients)

    Solved it. Solution is to move all of the patches into /var/spool/pkg and run patchadd on each one in there (in the right order).

Maybe you are looking for

  • How to connect iPad to printer

    I have iPad and want to connect it to canon MP280 printer, please advise

  • DATE format - while defining the table column

    Hi Friends, I came across a piece of code which was applying a TO_DATE() function on a date type column. I have two tables t1 and t2 and they have col1 and col2 columns respectively of type DATE t1 col1 DATE t2 col2 DATEalso there is a variable var1

  • Disappearing reel name and timecode

    Ok, here's one for you: batch capture from a list that has proper reel names and media start and end timecodes. Capture complete and the reel name disappears to be replaced with a blank space, and the timecode is set to zeros. Hmmm, the clip is there

  • Best export options in QuickTime Pro to burn a dvd with?

    I'm trying without luck to establish a workflow where i edit original content (combine image and sound, add credits) in QuickTime Pro then i need to burn the resulting movie to a dvd. This seems near to impossible. I have finally figured out i need t

  • Yet another export issue with Aperture 3

    Judging by a search of topics, there seem to be a myriad of problems associated with getting files out of Aperture, some of which represent occult setting issues, others which seem to be actual bugs.  I've run into an issue which seems to defy catego