System Identification Toolkit 2012

Hello
I´m triying to find the System Identification Toolkit for labview 2012 for evaluation but I cannot find it... version 2011 and 2013 are available but not for 2012
where can I obtain it for evaluation?
Regards

That's weird, they just skipped 2012 in to Product Downloads page.
Do you have your LabVIEW install disc package. This page seems to think you can find it there at least.
Otherwise, I suggest contacting an NI rep directly.

Similar Messages

System identification of a "complex" system

I would like to use labview to extract the transfer function of a closed loop control system. This system uses a PID loop to control the amplitude and phase of a radio frequency cavity.
I can easily excite the real world system with a step response (or any arbitary excitation).
The step response from the system has both amplitude and phase, and in labview is an array of type "extended complex".
Is the NI system identification toolkit capable of extracting the transfer function in both amplitude and phase? I have an evaluation version and have been unable to get this working.
Pete.

System Identification uses frequency response based on "bode" graphs. This means that it has two graphs: one representing the magnitude over the frequency range and the second is the phase against frequency (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bode_plot)
If you see the literature, on complex numbers (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Complex_number), the polar form describes how you can convert Real +/- imaginary to magnitude and phase. Notice that, in general, the magnitude is expressed in log scale and special care is necessary to allow you to use the functions. Fortunately for you, System Identification allow you to use "linear" scale in the conversion. You define this on the "FRF format".
Also, notice that the SI Estimate FRF function is only used when you have the time-domain data (input and output over time) and the other functions in the frequency domain Model Estimation palette are used to convert bode responses into a polynomial in the S-domain or Z-domain.
Please let me know if you still can't configure the functions.
Barp - Control and Simulation Group - LabVIEW R&D - National Instruments

System Identification with Digital System

Hey,
So when using the system identification toolkit, the user excites the system with a analog signal. After they're finished with the entire process they're able to get a plant model of their system. So what if they're system will be using digital inputs/outputs (e.g. a digital amplifier on their proportional valve), can their system be excited with digital outputs and then achieve a digital plant model? Or must their system be an analog system to use the toolkit?
Thanks

If your search didn't turn them up, then you probably have the base package of LabVIEW and the functions are not included. The search function is at the top of the functions palette.
You can use either function provide data to a DAQ output. If you want to use an analog output, you just have to wire the waveform to a DAQmx Write. Look at any of the shipping examples for DAQ output. Most of them use waveforms such as a sine wave but it doesn't matter. Waveform data is waveform data.

System identification using labwindows?

Hello,
I have some linear models to test and need to identify the parameters using estimation algorithms like arx, armax, oe. I am doing that now with an old version of Matlab (2002!!) but since all my other programs run in LabWindows CVI (8.5.1), I would like t know if there is something like a system identification toolkit but not for Labview but for Labwindows! or some library that I can add... any ideas?
Thanks, Kristel

kristel wrote:
I have some linear models to test and need to identify the parameters using estimation algorithms like arx, armax, oe. I am doing that now with an old version of Matlab (2002!!) but since all my other programs run in LabWindows CVI (8.5.1), I would like t know if there is something like a system identification toolkit but not for Labview but for Labwindows! or some library that I can add... any ideas?
The best versions of Matlab are the old ones, they don't cost so much
You really need to be looking for a system identification library written in C. I was a little surprised, when I had a quick trawl, that I couldn't find one so easily. The only toolkits that come up on Google searches seem to be the Matlab and LabVIEW ones. There's stuff like the Numerical Recipes implementations for estimation, that give you the building blocks, but you'd still need to be referencing Astrom, Goodwin & Payne, or another reference to complete the implementation.
I'd be interested to know why you would really want to implement in C. Most system identification is offline, and which tool you use - C, Matlab, LabVIEW - is really immaterial.
Martin
Certified CVI Developer

System identification

Dear All,
I have problem when handling my system identification toolkit. When I running my system in real time, i get this error;
The model orders are inconsistent with the dimensions of the model coefficients.
How can i settle this problem. I don't know what is happening actually. I hope some can give some suggestion, why this situation occur. Thanks all.
Attachments:
Modeling.vi ‏311 KB

Dear All,
I hope, someone can help me to settle my problem. Thank you very much!

Labview 2010 and internet toolkit 2012

We at our company are using labview 2010 for creating quick test applications.
I've recently created a program that uses features that are linked to the internet toolkit.
When creating an installer and installing the application on another system it didn't work, i later found out that you need internet toolkit installed in order to use these features.
In order to install the toolkit i have to install labview. Is it also possible to just have the runtime engine installed (2010 version) together with the interInternet toolkit 2012 in order to use these functions?

Like mentioned before the internet toolkit does not have to be installed on the target PC. If VI where missing from the executable, it will not run at all and return an error stating it is missing VI's. What I think happens is that the toolkit VI's are in an error state but since you do not stop the loop on an error the loop will just continue to run and because of the error it is not doing anything. You can do a couple of things:
1. Debug the executable. How that is done is described in the following KB:
http://digital.ni.com/public.nsf/allkb/8DA679805915DE40862572D5007B2F70?OpenDocument
When you are connected to the running executable you can use the normal debugging methods like probes to see what happens. Especially the error line would be good to monitor.
2. Let the loop stop on an error. The executable will then show the error (if any) in the error cluster.
3. Monitor the error line within the loop to see if there is an error occurring.
Let me know what the outcome of one of these actions is.
Regards,
Rik Prins, CLD
Applications Engineering Specialist Northern Europe, National Instruments
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Novice System Identification

I'm new to System Identification (both as a concept and as a toolkit!), does anyone have any suggestions of where I can start to get to grips with it? I'm going to be doing both linear and non-linear identifications in the course of the project I'm working on but unfortunately none of us have ever played with system ID before.
Any help would be much appreciated,
Andy
Solved!
Go to Solution.

Hi Andy,
You should have a look at the NI Developer Zone. There's examples and other useful documents. I found something that you may find useful, follow the link below
Stimulus and Acquisition Considerations in the System Identification Process
http://zone.ni.com/devzone/cda/tut/p/id/4170
You can also search on the website for tutorials and examples. go to ni.com
Regards,
Rico P

System Identification and Transfer Function of the LEGO MINDSTORM NXT Robot

Can anybody please help with the below question.
Using your LabView interface, input different values of power and record the output value of the number of wheel rotations. You can convert the latter into speed by measuring the diameter of the wheel. Then, type ‘ident’ in the command line of Matlab to launch a graphical user interface for system identification. Using the data collected for input power and recorded speed, you can derive the transfer function for your robot in the Laplace domain.
You will notice that it is possible to approximate the transfer function to a first order system.
Add disturbance to your system such as wind drag, road profile or friction. You might want to model the disturbance as a sinusoidal waveform.
Analyse the system response in LabView in order to tune the response.
Finally, write a LabView program to test your controller.
Set both Integral and Derivative to 0
Increase the value for Proportional controller to 0.5, 0.8, 1, 1.1, 1.3, and 1.5
Select a suitable simulation stop time.
Compare each simulation results and draw some conclusions.
Record the steady-state error. Has it dropped to near zero?
Record the rise time. Has it decreased to less than 0.5 second? And for what values of Kp?
Check whether this response is realistic i.e. a real cruise control system generally cannot change the speed of the vehicle from 0 to 10m/s in less than 0.5 second.
Adjust the gain (Kp) to give a reasonable rise time and add an integral controller to eliminate the steady-state error.
Change both Kp and Ki and see what happens to the response. When you adjust the integral gain Ki, start with a small value since a large Ki can destabilise the response. (Ki =0.001, 0.002, 0.003, 0.004).
Then you need to adjust both the proportional gain Kp and the integral gain Ki to obtain the desired response. Record the values of Kp and Ki that can meet all the design criteria.
Write the PID-feedback control LabVIEW program as described above.
Does it work? Quantify! Show us it is working
Hand in a short report on the PID project on the cruise control of the LEGO MINDSTORM NXT Robot. Your report should contain an introduction to cruise control and uses of PID controllers, a brief explanation of how PID feedback control works. The printout of the Block Diagram and Front Panel of your LabVIEW program should be attached at the end of your report.
Put it all together. There are many questions that can be explored and written up in the result section. Be creative.
Here are some things that may be addressed: Check whether your system can stabilise speed to within 1%. What are the optimal PID parameters that you have found? Can you choose PID parameters to both reach the set speed quickly and also maintain the speed within good accuracy once the system has reached the set speed? Can you control the speed of small steps? Explain your results?

Thanks for that.
DanHarryman wrote:
HI ToolMonkey
You should be able to build control system to do this using PID control VIs. The following paper is a good place to start when working with PID systems.
http://www.ni.com/white-paper/6440/en
Let me know how you get on using some of the functions in this.
Thanks
Dan.H
UKAE

Move SUP role from Server 2008 R2 to new Site System running Server 2012 R2

Is it possible to move the primary SUP role which is currently running on a separate site system under Server 2008 R2 (WSUS 3.0 SP2) and move it to a new site system running Server 2012 R2 using the same SUSDB? I've moved the SUP role
around before by setting up a secondary SUP (using the same DB) then removing the primary SUP role which causes the secondary SUP to become the Primary but that was using the same version of OS and WSUS. With the version of WSUS being different
on Server 2012 R2, I was thinking this may not be possible since the documentation says the WSUS versions must be the same when creating multiple SUP roles.

Hi,
>>I was thinking this may not be possible since the documentation says the WSUS versions must be the same when creating multiple SUP roles.
As the document indicated, "When you have multiple software update points at a site, ensure that they are all running the same version of WSUS." So the scenario you decribed should be not supported.
Reference:Prerequisites for Software Updates in Configuration Manager
Best Regards,
Joyce
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Technical System Identification

Guys ,
I need to add JRUN into my system lanscape , What I want to know is What will be the <i><b>Technical System Identification</b></i>, while adding the technical system using technical system wizard.
Thanks
Manish

Hi Manish,
You can give any value to identify the JRUN on the host it is running.
Thanks
Prasad

How does the system identifies whether we use Psotive or Negative Time Mngt

Dear All,
How does the system identifies whether we use Psotive or Negative Time Management.
Appreciate your early response.
Regards
Rajesh

Hi
1. In positive time management we record the actual time of the employee working in organization and following are the infotypes we need to maintain in master data,
          1. Organztion Assignement [0001]
          2. Personal Data [0002]
          3. Absence Quota [2006]
          4. Planed working time [0007] with the time management status " if you are using PDC then "2" " Or "1. Time evaluation actual time".
          5. Time Recording Info [0050]
2. In Negative time management we are only recording the time deviation like "Absence, Illness, Leave" and following are the Infotype we need to maintain in master data,
         0001, 0002,0007 with time management status "0" i.e No time evaluation and 2006.
Best of Luck
Swapnil

System Center Orchestrator 2012 Integration Pack for Lync Server 2013 release Date?

Hi,
I want to know about System Center Orchestrator 2012 Integration Pack for Lync Server 2013 release Date?
or Microsoft has already released it?
Amit Sharma

Hi,
I believe it will be around Q4. At the moment there isn't any updates on the release dates yet. So I suggest you to wait patiently.
Guowen Su
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System Identification ErrorR

Hi
When installing new SunFire V100 i get :
"System Identification ErrorR I=377703" - "An error occurred while trying to set the IP address"
I've tried many IP's with or without DHCP .
anyone have any idea ?
Thanks'
Kobi

If this error is during the OS installation, I would suggest skip the Network configurastion and continue with the installation. Latter once the OS installation is done....run sys-unconfig and configure the network.
-M

System Identification Assistant w/o NI Signal Generator

Hello,
I am using a GW Instek power source to heat a graphite rod within a vacuum chamber. I am detecting the temperature with a K type thermocouple connected to a thermocouple input module. I have written a labview program with a PID and have everything running, yet i force tuned the PID. I would like to use the signal identification tools labview provides to identify the transfer function and model the process. I have used the system identification assitant in attempting to send a step signal and acquire a response, yet I have been running into difficulties. The only way I can perform a step function is to manually generate an output of a specified power and then measure the response, as the signal generator within the system identification software is not identifying the GW Instek PSW 30-108 power source. With manual input and importing both input and output data i am able to get a parametric model, yet the transfer function provide me PID values which are 5 orders of magnitude greater then the ones i am currently using. Ideally i would like to use the software to generate the signal and measure the response continuously rather then using data i collect through my program. If possible, I would also be interested in perhaps directly integrating VI's to perform signal analysis directly into my process program.
Problems and what I have done:
I have the drivers for the power source and my process program recognizes the device yet system ident assist cannot find the hardware. I have attempted to creat a task in NI-MAX yet the hardware is also non-identifiable.
Port module input works with VISA and this is how my VI is communicating with the power source.
Goals:
I would like to use the system ident assist to generate power ouput and collect temperature input, and generate a process model, so that I may tune my PID more accuratly.
Also, I may be interested in integrating VI's directly into my process program, yet I am new to the LV language...
I have attached my Labview program below. I would like to thank you in advance for your time and look forward to responses.
Cheers
Attachments:
Test1_RT.vi ‏186 KB

Using cDAQ 9171 interface to accquire thermocouple data. My Device does appear in MAX under devices and Interfaces, and i set up the Port/Visa for my LV program. So LV program recognizes the power device, although System Identification does not give me the option to access the device for signal generation. I have tried to set up a task under device neighborhood, and have alse attempted and IVI device session setup. Both unfortunately did not get me any farther. I am thinking i may have to right a program with VI's and integrate it into my current LV program. Although I dont want to attempt to do this until I am certain that I can get the System Identification VI's to recognize the Power Supply. Ideally I would like to avoid contructing a program and simply use the system ident assisten and parametric modeling to provide me the T.F.

DC motor system identification

I am using a set up in which I am measuring the speed of a small 9V DC motor using a hall effect sensor.I wish to determine the transfer function of the motor.How do i go about it?
I tried working it out with the attached vi,but it doesnt really work..
Please suggest some good examples about how to try this out.
Attachments:
Parameter_estimation.vi ‏344 KB

Hello ShishKeBobby
Thanks for your reply, but realy these information I knew, I need more information like a datasheet for this DC motors concerning the electrical and mechanical parameters.
I searched for the tetrix DC drive motor, part no. 39083 on pitisco web site but I could not download the datasheet.
these are the information I need
Motor constants (KT, KE)
Motor internal resistance (Rm) and inductance (La)
Motor friction (viscous friction)
Interia (J)
, thanks
or I am thinking to get these parameters by system identification but I dont know how without disasseblying of the dc motor from DANI and having a benifet from Labview and the assembled Morors in DANI.....
what you think?
Thanks for help
A.Hakim

System Identification Toolkit 2012

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