The topic of scoring to film with logic...

Hello everyone,
I wanted to get a little discussion started on the topic of scoring to picture and how people here do it with logic.
My experience with this has been quite on the side of frustration, and I've always thought "wow--- is it really this dumb?.. It CAN'T be this dumb.."
So, when I talk about scoring to film, the biggest issue is the scene change-- something might be building and building and tempos increasing and rising and rising, and then suddenly BAM.. scene change, slow ambient music... Then scene change, fast paced intense music... When dealing with creating music notation for something like this, it's especially important to make sure that the note events are strict in time and on the beat (quantized, etc) so that your scores make visual sense and players won't hate you. "Yeah-- umm this 32nd note really is a quarter note happening over here.. But.. You know how Logic is.."
My thought always was-- if Logic just had a "create downbeat" operation, it would solve all of these problems. You could have a section of music that abruplty ends at Measure 175 on beat 2.7431 and force 2.7431 to become measure 176-- and then you could assign a new tempo, a new time signature, etc.
Logic's manual likes to talk about using tempo operations to achieve this, but this is when I ask "is it REALLY that dumb?".. I mean to be required to have a zillion crazy tempo changes in order to bypass beat 2.7432 through the end of beat 4, just seems counter intuitive, non-user friendly, and completely non-musical.
So... I am asking, how do you guys feel about this, and how do you deal with it.. Am I the only one who thinks this is dumb?
-patrick

There has been no improvement or change in automation behavior between 7.x and 8.x, unfortunately. If anything the behavior has gotten buggier/worse in L8. But that's a different story and not related to what I mentioned previously about beat mapping.
Automation data is time-stamped when it's written; but if you change the tempo after the fact, the spacing between notes will either compress or expand. Therefore, automation data (TBA, track-based automation) is "malleable" with respect to tempo changes. This actually makes sense to a certain extent, but it's not a good paradigm for automation to operate under when you've got automation data associated with specific regions. To put it more simply, if you lock a region and there's automation associated with it, the region will be locked but not the automation data.
The workaround, as you hinted at, is to convert your TBA automation data to region-based automation data (RBA) prior to commencing tempo change operations. This is exactly what I do in this case, and it's become a regular part of my routine. It's kind of a PITA process, but absolutely necessary if you want to preserve your automation data prior to commencing any edits to the tempo.
The procedure is to create an additional track for every track in your arrangement. If you're doing big orchestral stuff, for example, you may have dozens if not hundreds of tracks, maybe within folders, etc. That's where the "PITA" part comes in. But anyway, once you have a duplicate of every track in the arrangement, use the pencil tool to create a blank region on once of those tracks. Extend that region to go a little beyond the end of the arrangement. Use the color palette to give it a color that's not used for any of the other regions in your arrangement (you'll see why soon).
Copy that blank region to every single one of those duplicate tracks. Then, with one of those blank regions selected, use the "select similar color" key commands and all of the blank regions will now be selected. Then invoke the command to move all automation data to region data.
Finally, Select-ALL and tjem SMPTE-lock all of the regions in your arrangement. At this point you can change tempo/commence beat mapping with impunity. (For S&G's, if not for safety, check the "protect MIDI" checkbox in beat mapping prior to doing any beat mapping operations).

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Which is the best MIDI interface to use with Logic 7 ?

Hi folks :o)
Firstly, thanks all for any advice you can give. I'm a pro user, but right in the middle of a major upgrade (G4/OS9/CubaseVST32 >> G5/OSX/CubaseSX3/Logic7) & feel a huge learning curve coming on!
The situation is this:
I have a Steinberg Midex 8 midi interface, plus a MOTU MTPav in the cupboard. The Midex took place of the MTPav because it had much better midi timing under OS9 with Cubase... The Midex8 drivers for OSX, however, are still beta & a pile of rubbish. (It keeps losing communication with the G5.) I'm fed up with how bad Steinberg have been sorting (not!) these problems out (not to mention the fact that Cubase SX3 can't recognise my 'studio' created in Audio Midi Setup either.. arghh!), so I'm considering jumping ship & going entirely to Logic in one hit, plus whichever is the best midi-interface for this software & OSX.
As food for thought, I'm currently thinking of tracking down a 'Unitor 8', having made the (perhaps wrong) assumption that it'd work 'best' with Logic seeing as it was made by Emagic. BUT, despite a lengthy search in Logic 7's manuals & this forum, I can't find any mention of Emagic's 'Active Midi Transmission' protocol & whether or not Logic 7 supports it; AMT is the only reason I'd buy the Unitor. (I've got all the other bases covered with the MTPav.) I'm also concerned about the long-term support issues regarding drivers for the Unitor 8 & OSX; ****, I'm having enough problems with Steinberg & their Midex 8 (which is still a current product in theory!) without throwing Emagic & a midi interface that's no longer manufactured into the pot...
So..... What do you folks feel is the best midi interface to use with Logic 7 as regards tight midi timing & system reliability? Can anyone out there with a big midi setup categorically say "I've got one (or more) of these MIDI interfaces, it works beautifully under OSX & Logic 7, & the MIDI timing is rock-solid, even when put under heavy midi 'duress' " ??
Many thanks again in advance for any feedback!
Your new Logic Pro virgin ;o)
Jason

Thanks for your reply folks. It's good to hear a number of you are having good results with your MTPav - I guess I'll pull mine out of the cupboard in that case!
As an aside, it's been interesting to note how difficult it's been to get a clear answer from companies (be it shops or Apple) as to whether or not Logic 7 supports 'Active Midi Transmission' on the old Unitor 8 MkII..... (The reference manual has one mention of it in the index, yet points to a page that doesn't say anything about AMT at all!)
If anyone here DOES have a clear answer about AMT with Logic 7, I'd be very interested to hear about it... thanks.
Kind regards,
JC

How can I change the tuning (pitch) of apple loops with logic?

how can I change the tuning (pitch) of apple loops with logic? Is it possible at all ??? Cant get a clear information . I´m a user of Logic 9.14

Thanks.....but... How to change the pitch within a song arrange, lets for example say the loop is in F in original tune and i want him to be played in the song arrange maybe in A.... when i draw it in the arrange window, the tune goes back to the original...

The best way to get help with logic

I was posting in a thread on support for logic which appears to have been deleted. anyway, what I was going to say I think is useful info for people, so I'm going to post it anyway. to the mods - it doesn't contain any speculation about policies or anything like that. just an explanation of my views on the best way to deal with issues people have with logic, which I think is a valuable contribution to this forum.
I think there's a need for perspective. when you buy an apple product you get 90 days of free phone support to get everything working nice and neat. you can call them whenever, and you could actually keep them on the phone all day if you wanted, making them explain to you how to copy a file, install microsoft office, or any number of little questions no matter how simple - what is that red button thingy in my window for?.. on top of that, you've got a 14 day dead on arrival period (or 10 days I can't remember) in which if your machine has any kind of hardware fault whatsoever it's exchanged for a totally new one, no questions asked. a lot of people complain that applecare is overpriced.. and if you think of it just as an extended warranty, then it is a little pricey. but if you are someone that could use a lot of phone support, then it's actually potentially a total bargain. the fact that 2 or more years after you bought a computer, you could still be calling them every single day, asking for any kind of advice on how to use anything on the machine, is quite something. many people on this forum have had problems when they made the mistake of upgrading to 10.4.9 without first creating a system clone or checking first with their 3rd party plug in vendors to make sure it was ok. so, with apple care, you could call them and keep a technician on the phone _all day_ talking you through step-by-step how to back up all of your user data, how to go through and preserve your preferences and any other specific settings you might not want to lose, and then how to rollback to an earlier OS version.. they'll hold your hand through the whole thing if you need them to.
as for applecare support for pro apps like logic, I'd be the first person to agree that it's not great for anyone except beginners and first time users. if you look at what it takes to get even the highest level of logic certification, it's all pretty basic stuff. and logic doesn't exist in a vacuum, there is an entire universe of 3rd party software and hardware, as well as studio culture and advanced user techniques that are going to be totally invisible to some poor phone support guy at apple that did a logic 101. but it's not hard to see that apple are trying to promote a different kind of support culture, it's up to you to decide whether you want to buy into it or not.
the idea is that they are able to provide basic setup support for new users, including troubleshooting. because it's a simpler level of support, at least they can do this well. so there's no reason why any new user with say a new imac and logic can't get up and running with the 90 days of phone support they get for free.
but the thing is, for extremely high end pro users it's a different matter altogether. pro use of logic within the context of say, a studio or a film composition scenario is a very different world. it's almost a nonsense to imagine that apple could even hire people capable of giving useful support for this end of the spectrum, over the phone. there are so many variables, and so many things that require a very experienced studio person or in-work composer to even begin to understand the setup, let alone troubleshoot it. and it's a constantly evolving world, you actually have to be working in it and aware of developments on 3rd party fronts as well as changes in hardware.. not to mention even changes in the culture of studio production and the changed expectations that come from that. there's no way some poor little guy sitting at a help desk at apple can even hope to be privy to that kind of knowledge. it's already good enough that they don't outsource their support staff to india, let alone go out to studios and hire the very people with the skills that should be staying in the studio! not answering phones for apple.
so, given this reality.. companies have two choices. they can either offer an email based support ticket system, which others do. but in my opinion.. this can just be frustrating and only a half-solution. sure you 'feel' like you are getting a response from the people that make the software and therefore must know it.. but it's not really the case due to what I said above. DAWs don't exist in a vacuum, and so much of what you need to understand to help people requires an intimate knowledge of the music industry in which they are working. you still won't get that from steinberg, even if they sort of answer your emails. the other problem is that this kind of system can mean sporadic answers, a lot of tail-chasing, and quite often you won't get an answer that helps you in the end anyway.
the other model is to foster a strong user support culture. some people react in the wrong way to this idea.. they just think it's a big brush off from the manufacturer, saying we don't care, go sort it out yourselves.. but this isn't true. apple has a classification for pro resellers called 'apple solutions expert - audio'. what this means is that these dealers are recognised as audio specialists and they can receive extra support and training from apple for this. but more importantly than this.. most of them are music stores, or pro gear dealerships that are also mac and logic dealers. they already employ people that have worked or do work in the music industry, and are constantly on top of all of this stuff. apple encourages these dealers to run workshops, and to provide expert sales advice in the very niche area that logic is in, which they can do far better than some generic apple store ever could. but most importantly, they are encouraged to offer their own expert after-sales support and whatever other value-adding expertise they can, to get sales. because margins in computer gear are so tight nowadays, discounting is not really a viable option for these dealers to guarantee getting musicians to buy computers and logic setups from them. the only companies that can entice people with a lower price a big online wholesalers or big chain stores. so the best idea for these niche expert stores to get sales is to offer you their own experts to help with configuration, ongoing support and to generally make it a better idea that you bought your system from them rather than from some anonymous online store. I can see the wisdom of this.. it puts the support back out there on the ground where it's needed, and also where it can work best. apple could never hope to offer the same level of expertise in helping a film composer work through some issues with a specific interface or some highly specific issue they have with getting a task done. no big software manufacturer could do this anywhere near as well as people out there that have worked in studios or currently do work in studios. so in my opinion it's a far better model to foster this kind of support culture, along with training courses, books and training video support. also user forums like this one are possibly one of the most valuable ports of call anyone could ask for. apple couldn't replicate this with their own staff, even if they tried. and even if they made a system where some of the people close to logic development were able to answer emails, it would still be nowhere near as useful, as rapid or as capable of being up to speed with logic use out in the real world with 3rd pary gear, as any of these other methods are.
the only thing I think they could do better would be to publish a list of known bugs which are officially recognised. this would help everyone and put an end to a lot of wasted time and speculation on if something is a bug totally to do with logic, or if it's a specific issue raised by a particular configuration.
but really, in my view, a 3rd party support and training culture through a combination of specialist dealers, consultants that literally run a business setting up computers for pro-users and helping them keep it all working, online user-to-user forums and published materials really are the way forward.

In all honesty this is currently the 3rd "logicboard" (motherboard)
in my powerbook due to a design flaw regarding the 2nd memory slot....
Yep. Mine failed five weeks after I bought it. However, I bought it for work and couldn't afford being without it for four weeks while they fixed it, so I had to live with it. My serial number did not entitle me to a replacement either, post Applecare.
My firewire ports have burnt out from a third-party defective device (no hot-plugging involved)
My screen is blotchy (my PW serial number did not entitle me to a replacement).
My battery serial number did not entitle me to a replacement, and is not that good these days.
My guaranteed Powerbook-compatible RAM is actually not, causing RAM related problems, most notably these days meaning that as soon as I switch to battery power, the laptop crashes, so I can only use mains power. The company I bought it from stopped taking my calls and wouldn't replace it after they replaced it once, so I'm stuck with it. And of course, only one ram slot is working, so I can't even use my original stick in the first slot, which would shift the dodgy stuff away from the lower system area.
My power supply failed at the weak spot and caught fire. I managed to break apart the power supply and recable it so I didn't have to buy a new power supply, although the connection at the laptop end is loose (all the more fun that as soon as power is lost, the laptop crashes - see above). The power supply is held together with gaffa tape. Silver gaffer tape though, so it's still kind of 'Appley"...
My internal hard drive is dying - four or five times now it clicks and won't power up, causing the laptop to die.
One foot has fallen off (but glued back on).
The lid is warped.
The hinge is loosish.
The S-Video adaptor cable is intermittent.
But aside from all that, I have looked after it well, and I love it to death. Just as well, because it doesn't look like it will be that long...
But it still "just works". Apart from the battery power obviously. And the ram slot. And the ram. And the screen. And the hard drive. And the firewire ports. And the feet.
But everything apart from the main board, the screen, the case, the hard drive and the power supply works fine. So thats... er..
Hmm.

What's the best controller keyboard to run with Logic Express?

I am a composer of mostly acoustic/classical music and was wondering about best user friendly controller keyboard for Logic Express. Does anyone have any recommendations? I am not a rocket scientist when it comes to working with connections, so I need something real easy in a 61 or 76 key synthesizer/controller. jack

Cant really answer thatqestion in terms of the "best to use" with logic express, however, im in the opposite postion as you in the sense that im using logic with a motif 6 and want to sell it, and just get a controller. I produce hip hop, and have always prefered the sounds in the triton to the ones in the motif.....fo waht im using it for at least.

Whats the best Audio Interface to use with Logic and MacBook Pro?

I currently own a Line 6 Pod X3 Pro and although its much better than the Eleven Rack (what an overrated piece of junk in a pretty candy coating, more fizz than club soda and still no balls. Some say it just needs a cheap overdrive box to do the trick. I say how can it possibly be worth a Grand if a cheap added piece of equiptment is needed to improve the sound?) It's still not exactly top notch, to say the least.
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PS How do I switch this topic to the Logic forum? I'm sure it will be more helpful to others there.

What is the best external drive to use with logic studio?

I want to get Logic studio, but don't have enough hard drive space on my 2009 IMac, running Snow Leopard. What is the best, most efficient, external hard drive for this purpose?

What you want to look for is not so much a fast drive, although that is desirable, but a seperate buss to run it from. What i/o do you have on your iMac?
Shattuck

Parameter inactive in the selection screen of a report with logical datab.

I`m using a logical database in a report (PNP).
I need put as inactive some parameters of the selection screen. How can i do it ??? From customizing ???
Thanks

Hi,
Check this code..
" In screen loop You need to inactive the field.
AT SELECTION-SCREEN OUTPUT.
LOOP AT SCREEN.
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       screen-name CS 'PNPKOSTL' OR
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Apogee Ensemble: What are the issues it has with Logic 8?

I've read raving reviews about the Ensemble--one of which describes it as being a huge improvement over a MOTU 828mkII, which I happen to have. At the same time, I've seen some posts in this forum about the issues the Ensemble has with Logic 8. I couldn't find, or understand, what those issues are.
Can someone explain to me what problems I might encounter if I get an Apogee Ensemble? I'd much appreciate it.

Mackie control with Logic 8 is all over the place, i was surprise to see this the Stop Play Rewind and so forth is at fault, the faders works so i have to use the Controls on screen, i take it Apple will soon update the Control-units to work properly with Logic 8, even though L.8 is pretty new, but i find Logic 8 to be very impressive,
Fr. BlayZay.

Question about the EXSP24 sampler (or any other samples) bundled with Logic

Are there any Clarinet samples in Logic?
Are there any French Horn samples in Logic as well?
I'm not looking for loops, just samples (like the ones for trumpet, tenor sax etc.)
If not, how would I find these and place them in the application so I could use them in Logic Express.
Thanks from the NEWBIE.
Mark

I think you probably mean the Garageband instruments that you use with Logic - I'm not sure if Clarinet and French Horn come with Garageband so if they aren't there you'd need to buy the appropriate Apple Jam Pack or get something similar elsewhere (Google 'Orchestral samples' for some free ones) - the Jam Packs are pretty good quality sounds on the whole and good value for money.
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Apple Remote won't work with Logic

I bought a new iMac (3.06 GHz Intel Core 2 Duo) and the Apple Remote won't work with Logic 8. It worked fine on my MacBook Pro.

jazzmaniac, I did something by holding down two buttons on the remote for a few seconds. I guess that is called registering. But when I try to play a song file in Logic, Front Row pops up instead.
I've searched the Internet and am finding little on this topic.

Using a usb external drive with logic

I have a 500 GB Lacie usb hard drive which I'm currently using just to backup my system. (Still on Tiger by the way.) I'm in an older intel iMac (1.83. 2 gigs ram, 250 gig internal hard drive). After installing LP 8 and all the bells and whistles on the internal drive I now have less than half of my internal drive space available. My logic project files are there as well. Not a big problem but I'm trying to look further down the road... Usb drives are slower than firewire but my projects are relatively simple. I don't record more than 2 tracks simultaneously and rarely exceed 24 tracks total for a song. Two questions. First can I get by with my usb external drive? And second how do I move my projects onto and external drive and still have logic know where they are? Thanks

I have the oldest macbook (1.83. 2 gigs ram, 60 gig internal hard drive)
I have all my logic content on my external maxtor firewire 400 drive (usb 2.0 is actually faster than firewire 400) and everything is fine. the good thing is if your external drive has 7200rpm, but the ones with 5600rpm should do as well.
Once you drag your apple loops to logic from your external drive, logic will remember for the next visit. And when you are opening a project which is on the external drive , just find it with logic finder and all should be fine.

Questions about Novation Remote 25SL integration with Logic Pro 8

Preface: I have to apologize in advance if this seems somewhat confusing. I'm sure some of the terms I'm using are just plain wrong - I'm somewhat of a n00b.
I have a Novation Remote 25SL configured to use AutoMap with Logic Pro 8 from Novation's website and most things are working well. It's confusing at times because sometimes I find it hard to tell what mode the keyboard is in, but that's ok - it's the least of my worries. Based on what I've seen through reading the manuals and my own experimentation, I have a couple of questions:
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- Is there a way to control non-Apple AU plugins like the rest of those which ship with Logic? All the sexy looking ones like Ringshifter, Compressor, Overdrive, etc. It seems odd that Remote will go into Mixer Automap mode and be able to control the certain portions of the instruments, but not the plugins that are automatically loaded into the channel strip when the instrument is loaded.
- I have a 25 key Remote. In Ultrabeat, I find the key maps miss a chunk of notes between where the drum pads end and where the keyboard starts (or vice-verse). Is there a way to get it so each key has a mapping? 25 keys in Ultrabeat, 25 keys on the board plus 8 drum pads - seems like there's lots of room.
Thanks in advance for all your feedback.
Message was edited by: Jason Lixfeld

Follow-up research:
Apparently there is a driver conflict between the AlphaTrack and the ReMOTE. So far I have got the ReMOTE working - sort of - in Logic using the following method which was published at Novation's Answerbase:
1. disconnect the alphatrack.
2. launch Logic and then turn on the ReMOTE SL.
3. Go into the Environment window, and add a Monitor Object. Connect it to the Remote SL's ports 2 and 3.
So far, this seems to at least get MIDI note input into Logic, but the Automap function seems a bit sketchy so far. This will depend on Novation updating Automap and the SL's firmware for Logic 8.
As noted previously, there doesn't seem to be any AlphaTrack support in Logic 8 yet and it's up to Apple to make it work. They do support their TranzPort product, so with luck there'll be support in the next update.
I'd really love to use BOTH control surfaces with Logic simultaneously -- the AlphaTrack with the Mixer and plugins, the ReMOTE with Software Instruments. I suppose it might take some interesting mapping but this doesn't seem like that strange a setup -- there are plenty of "mixer surfaces" like the M-Audio one, and the Novation Automap stuff is quite popular....

Sync microKorg with Logic Express 9

I'm trying to sync the arpeggiator of my microKorg XL with Logic Express 9, using Logic as the master. I seem to have almost done it, in that tempo changes in Logic change the microKorg's tempo. However, I can only hear the microKorg whilst I'm either recording or playing back - I can't hear it if I press a few keys.
I think the problem lies in that I have "Local off" set in accordance with the microKorg manual. The manual says I should also "turn on echo back" on the computer - but I don't know how to do this in Logic Express.
Grateful for advice.

When you set "Local Off" in any synth with MIDI capability, it disconnects synth's keyboard from its sound engine. Switch it back ON to be able to play sounds again using microKorg's keyboard. There is no point to disable the keyboard in your case anyways. Unless of course, you want to avoid midi-loop (but that's only when you have both MIDI IN and MIDI OUT wired to Logic).

Euphonix not working with logic

Please help.
I cannot figure this out. I have a MC control artist series with two MX mix connected via ethernet switch.
1) EuCon software crashes a lot (often together with logic). The software and firmware is up to date.
2) The MC shows that its connected with logic but suddenly the touchscreen doesn't show any functions anymore. And the MC mix display doen't show the tracks. And yes, Logic is always on top.
The faders do not respond. When I switch to the finder and go back to the application the Euphonix works for half a minute, than the same problem again.
This happens on my G5 as well as on my new iMac (Mac OS 10.5.8) and it was the same problem with 10.5.6.
I appreciate your feedback,
desperately Eddie

Eddie Eagle wrote:
Please help.
I cannot figure this out. I have a MC control artist series with two MX mix connected via ethernet switch.
1) EuCon software crashes a lot (often together with logic). The software and firmware is up to date.
2) The MC shows that its connected with logic but suddenly the touchscreen doesn't show any functions anymore. And the MC mix display doen't show the tracks. And yes, Logic is always on top.
The faders do not respond. When I switch to the finder and go back to the application the Euphonix works for half a minute, than the same problem again.
This happens on my G5 as well as on my new iMac (Mac OS 10.5.8) and it was the same problem with 10.5.6.
I appreciate your feedback,
desperately Eddie
Hi,
You might want to go back a version or two of the EuCon software, since you are on 10.4.11 or at least your signature says so...
Also check the ethernet cables, make sure they're connected properly.
Please contact Euphonix for further support on this.
Cheers

The topic of scoring to film with logic...

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