Thinking behind 'beta' as in Camera Profiles

It would be interesting to hear some guidance on the Beta part of the new Camera Profiles title. Particularly as there is now word of a Beta 2.
It is hardly a scientific survey, but from what I have seen on this and the ACR forum, I would have said that since their introduction there has been nary a word said against them. And certainly little in the way of suggested improvements. The response from users appears to be wholly positive. But then again there has never been a forum dedicated to feedback.
Are there folk in the background providing constructive feedback which will be implemented into improvements to those that already exist? And will those improvements be in Beta 2? Or will this retain the existing profiles and only add additional ones for newly introduced cameras? And if the former, will there be further improvements added to further Beta numbers; or is the plan at some stage to finalise the existing profiles as a firm release?
There are after all, I would surmise, many thousands of images already treated to the existing excellent profiles. It would be great to know a little of what the future holds.

Hi everyone,
Our basic plan at this time is to release a "beta 2" set of profiles which will include support for new cameras well as fix some known issues with the existing ones. There will also be a "beta 2" of the DNG Profile Editor, which is essentially a bug fix update.
As with the beta 1 profiles, there will be an installer so you don't have to worry about where to stick the new profiles. The installer won't delete or replace the existing beta 1 profiles, nor will it overwrite any custom profiles you may have built using DNG Profile Editor. So you don't have to worry about the color rendering for existing images (which use the 'beta 1' profiles) changing their appearance behind your back.
Both are free and will be released to the public very soon. See Thomas's notes in his description of Camera Raw updates in a recent thread in the Camera Raw forum if you want a closer guess on what "soon" means.
There are more details, but I think this is enough for now. Ultimately I will attempt to update the DNG Profiles FAQ with more info, but I haven't yet figured out how to squeeze 25 hours into a day!
Eric

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Lightroom 4.4 beta and Camera Profiles Issue

I'm testing Lightroom 4.4 beta and noticed that my D600 RAW files don't seem to be interpreted correctly when selecting camera profiles such as Camera Neutral or Camera Standard, etc. This becomes most obvious when processing higher ISO files. The only profile that seems to come the closest is Adobe Standard. I shoot in Camera Neutral. When I view them in Lightroom 4.4 and select camera neutral, the shadow areas especially seem overexposed. I don't remember having this issue in Lightroom 4.3. Will the final Lightroom 4.4 do a better job with camera profiles? I really hope Adobe works on this.

Here is Adobe Standard 100% crop, which looks closest to the View NX 2 rendition shadow-definition-wise, but not so much color-wise:
Here is a 100% crop of Camera Neutral preset, where shadows look like they've been pushed, but they haven't.
Here is the way View NX 2 renders this file, but unfortunately I had noise reduction turned to "normal" in-camera and View NX 2 won't let me turn that off to view the clean RAW file. I don't have CNX 2, which would have allowed me to turn off the noise reduction. Still this illustrates a difference between shadow definition and color brightness difference:
This is the full photo so you can see the lighting circumstances:
Maybe I expect too much. I don't know. Let me know what you guys think.

Beta Camera Profiles installation problem

I downloaded Camera Raw 4.5 Plug in, which is needed for the beta Camera Profiles installation. CR 4.5 is definitely in the right place and working fine. According to Adobe FAQ, beta Camera Profiles belong in the Adobe folder in Camera Raw. I copy here:
Where are the new profiles installed on my computer?
On Mac OS X:
/Library/Application Support/Adobe/CameraRaw/CameraProfiles
I do not have CR 4.5 in my Adobe folder, only in Plug ins. I do still have CR v 4 in the Adobe folder, but not v 4.5.
My question is... does the beta version of Camera Profiles automatically put Camera Raw 4.5 in the Adobe folder, or do I need to do something to get CR 4.5 there. I've already messed up on the download/installation of Camera Profiles by moving it into CR 4.5 the plug-in folder. When I realized my error, I have trashed that.
Can someone give me some input here ? I'm clueless. This is not a BIG DEAL, as I'm getting along fine with CS3. I;m just curious to know how CR 4.5 gets in the Adobe folder>
Thanks
carolyn

Steph_Kimball,
You're the one who is mightily confused. :)
> the recently released BETA CAMERA PROFILES which may be chosen in lieu of ARC
Assuming "ARC" is a typo for ARC, the beta camera profiles are used in ARC, inside Camera Raw,
not
"in lieu of". The new profiles, once installed appear IN the Calibrate Tag in ACR, alongside any profiles there may be there for your camera model from earlier versions of ACR, in the very same menu, not
"in lieu of".
If you do NOT have a raw file generated by a Canon or Nikon camera supported by ACR 4.6 (I'll forget about ACR 4.5 for good now), you WILL NOT see the new beta profiles appear in the dropdown menu in the calibrate tag.
You HAVE to be opening an image from a camera that is supported by the beta profiles or you will NOT see them. You'd see only the profiles from older ACR versions there.
It's akin to not seeing JPEG as an available format if you try to save a 16-bit image file through Save As, because JPEG does not support 16-bit images.
ACR must be presented with a file generated by a specific camera model supported by the beta profiles, or you won't see the beta profiles. It's that simple.
I suggest you take this discussion to the ACR forum, where it belongs, and where the ACR team hangs out, participates very actively and will be able to set you straight.
I don't think you understand how ACR works.
You are adding to the confusion here, Steph, because you are confused yourself. If you go over to the ACR forum, you will be able to interact with the creator of ACR and Photoshop, Thomas Knoll, with ACR programmer Eric Chan, and with the man who literally wrote the book on Adobe Camera Raw, Jeff Schewe.

Beta Camera Profiles installation question

I downloaded Camera Raw 4.5 Plug in, which is needed for the beta Camera Profiles installation. CR 4.5 is definitely in the right place and working fine. According to Adobe FAQ, beta Camera Profiles belong in the Adobe folder in Camera Raw. I copy and quote here:
" Where are the new profiles installed on my computer?
On Mac OS X:
/Library/Application Support/Adobe/CameraRaw/CameraProfiles "
I do not have CR 4.5 in my Adobe folder, only in Plug ins. I do still have CR v 4 in the Adobe folder, but not v 4.5.
My question is... does the beta version of Camera Profiles automatically put Camera Raw 4.5 in the Adobe folder, or do I need to do something to get CR 4.5 there in order to install the beta Camera Profiles ? I've already messed up on the download/installation of Camera Profiles by moving it into CR 4.5 the plug-in folder. When I realized my error, I have trashed that.
Can someone give me some input here ? I'm clueless. This is not a BIG DEAL, as I'm getting along fine with CS3. I;m just curious to know how CR 4.5 gets in the Adobe folder>
Thanks
carolyn

O.K. I understand about v 4.6. At the time I installed ACR 4.5, it was the version Adobe said was required. What has happened since then I was unaware of.
Where I have the ACR 4.5 plug in installed is EXACTLY the path you describe, not the HOME folder, but in my HD. I can show a screen shot but don't think that works in this space. To follow my ACR4.5 plug in path, which is the same as you say above, here it is:
HD/Library/App. Support / Adobe /Plugins/CS3/ File Formats / Camera Raw Plugin
When I am in Bridge, the window shows Camera Raw v 4.5 at the top. So I must have it in the right place. I think you misread my original post as the path I copied there was copied from the Ådobe FAQ! link for the Camera Profiles, NOT for ACR. Sorry if I was unclear.
I totally understand that the beta Camera Profiles and ACR do NOT reside in the same folder. ACR is in Plug ins, and the beta Camera Profiles go in the Adobe folder under Camera Raw. But I do NOT have ACR 4.5 in the Adobe folder so that I can put the profiles there. So what am I supposed to do ??

Where are the files that camera profiles install?

I have downloaded from this link: http://labs.adobe.com/wiki/index.php/DNG_Profiles
DNG profile editor 1.0 beta 2 and camera profiles beta 2.
After installation of these camera profile on PC where are the files?
I have searched but I don't find these!
Please help me.

Welcome to the discussions,
Your music and movies should still be part of the iTunes library on your computer. See if your movies are listed in "movies" in the left window in iTunes.
Photos you took with the phone are part of the last backup, if you did not sync after that. If you did, the data got overwritten.
See what else is inside the backup and how to restore from it here: http://support.apple.com/kb/HT1766

DNG Beta 2 Camera Profiles

I installed the beta2 camera profiles for PS CS4. Camera Raw 5.6. When I go to the dropdown box in the Camera Profile presets there is only listing for nikon D2x profiles and Camera Standard, Portrait, Neutral, and Vivid. I have a D300. Should there be profiles for other cameras other than the Nikon D2x? If Yes how do I import them or where can I find them. Are there profiles for the d300?
Thanks

The profiles that don't say a camera are for the current camera which is a D300 in your case. The D2x ones simulate that camera mode on the D300.
I think the D300 is new enough not to be supported by the old, old beta profiles, but they will clutter up the list for older cameras, so it's better not to have installed them. ACR 5.6 comes with its own up-to-date list of profiles.

Time frame for Camera Profile Beta?

What might be Adobe's thinking in terms of releasing a final version of the new Camera Profiles? Not as idle a question as it might seem. It sounds like many LR users have added a new profile as an automatic Import choice; and as the weeks go by, significant numbers of photos must have been given one of these excellent developments as a starting point for further tweaking.
As the profiles are in public beta, and Adobe Labs state they want user import before finalizing the release; it is germane to ask to what degree does Adobe plan - or indeed need to plan - to provide compatibility between a series of profiles that might be subject to further modification, and those applied during the interim (beta) period? And also how long that interim period is likely to last?

The beta profiles will never just disappear. When we do release the final profiles, they will be installed such that both profiles appear in the calibration popup. The beta profiles will only go away if you manually delete them.
If the user choses to manually delete the beta profiles, Camera Raw/Lightroom will automatically switch any previously adjusted images using the beta profiles to the final profiles with the same base name.

SOLUTION: Beta Camera Profiles Cause Lightroom to Hang

I finally found what was killing my LR2 install. I was moving and processing images when the CPU went to 50% (one core at 100%).
I ran a file monitor program and discovered LR2 was scanning *all* the camera profiles for each image selected. This is pointless since I had them all set to ACR 4.4!!!
So if you're experiencing hangs, go visit the following directory and delete the profiles:
c:\documents and settings\All Users\Application Data\Adobe\CameraRaw\CameraProfiles

Thomas, I have a few questions, if you don't mind:
"When you say scan every profile, do you mean all 300+ profiles"
Does that mean that the Camera Profile Calibration Beta packages every profile available to Adobe in the download? Thinking about it after reading this post, I only remember choosing the OS being used.
"or just the 10 or so profiles for the camera model you select?"
I didn't think that we selected the camera model, instead thought Lightroom determined the camera used (presumably from the camera model information listed in the photographs metadata) and made the profiles for that camera available in the drop-down list.
Will Adobe consider making camera profiles for each camera model available as a separate file, then let the user choose which camera profile(s) they need and download into a "profile folder." If so, it would be nice if the user could return to the download page and choose additional profiles when needed (such as when one buys the latest/greatest camera) and add them to the profile folder without over-riding or or removing profiles previously downloaded.
Without going OT about which camera systems people use and why, I would think that everyone would agree that there isn't any need to load all 300+ profiles when you only need the profiles for the camera(s) one uses. This is especially true if it causes the program to run slower than it would without all those profiles one wouldn't use anyway.
One other thing about the profile presets, if you don't mind - will Adobe also consider adding access to the camera profiles in the the Library Module's Quick Develop area near the Saved Presets option. It would be nice if you could access the profiles without switching over to the Develop Module.
Thanks, in advance, for any response provided.
Regards, JML

Camera Profiles Beta 2 in LR 2.3

I just downloaded the beta 2 camera profiles from labs.adobe.com. They appeared as advertised in Camera Raw 5.3 but all I get in LR 2.3 under Camera Calibration is Profile: "Embedded"
I did restart the computer but still no luck.
Is there a step I am missing?
Thanks,
Alan
PS I have Vista Ultimate with 4 GB of RAM.

You should not be bothering with the beta profiles as they have been superseded when ACR 5.2 was released.
If you download Camera Raw 5.3 you will find an installer package for the most recent versions of the camera profiles included in the download package.
Mac - http://www.adobe.com/support/downloads/thankyou.jsp?ftpID=4364&fileID=4061
Windows - http://www.adobe.com/support/downloads/thankyou.jsp?ftpID=4365&fileID=4067
Embedded suggests that the file you're trying to check the profile in is JPEG, TIF or PSD, which don't support the camera profiles. In some situations it may also appear for DNG files, but thse should also show Adobe Standard as a second option.

Camera Profiles and DNG Profile Editor beta 2 now available

Hi everyone,
Beta 2 of the camera profiles and DNG Profile Editor are now available. Please visit here and enjoy:
http://labs.adobe.com/wiki/index.php/DNG_Profiles
I hope to have more detailed release notes/changes for you soon. You are welcome to ask questions, but please note that it may take a while for me to respond.
Eric

Eric,
I followed very carefully your instructions for installing the new beta2 profiles and deleting the beta1 profiles, but have the same problems as many others. I'd like to provide a bit more information. I'm running Windows Vista Home Premium and have installed Photoshop CS4, updated with ACR5.1 and Lightroom 2.1 final release. As others have described, the default for all of my images was set to one of the Camera profiles (Canon faithful beta1), but now the profile name in Lightroom is blank. I tried looking at the other profiles and it does indeed appear that the beta2 profile is being used, but if I then reset the image it now shows ACR4.4, whereas the image had been imported with the camera profile as default. Also, if I open an image in ACR5.1 that was specified to use the same camera profile, it now shows ACR4.4 and it is not using the beta2 profile of what I had been using, I can see this by selecting the other profiles. Going back to Lightoom, I guess I could select all my images and select the Canon faithful beta2 profile, but then the mark shows up bottom right of the image showing that they have all been edited/modified, is there anyway to get all my images using the profile I was using but the beta2 version, without this happening and how about new imports?
Thanks, David.

Camera Profile Beta - will it port?

First, thank you very much to Adobe for creating these new camera profiles per:
http://labs.adobe.com/wiki/index.php/DNG_Profiles#Camera_Profiles_and_DNG_Profile_Editor
For the Fuji S5 and Nikon D80 this makes a major difference.
So, here's the question - if I set my pictures to "Adobe Standard beta 2" profile and in a couple months you go out of "beta" and the profile becomes "Adobe Standard", are the pictures I assigned "Adobe Standard beta 2" going to lose their profile or get messed up.
I assume when this becomes production I will remove and reinstall the production version and/or the production one will replace the beta profiles. In which case will the "fixed" naming of profiles cause me problems?
If the answer is yes, will there be a way to find and replace the broken profiles at some future date with the correct production one (I have a very large catalog)???
Thanks in advance!

In article <[email protected]>,
[email protected] wrote:
>
I actually read that before going ahead and deleting the beta 1 profiles.
"Camera Raw 4.6, 5.1 and Lightroom 2.1 will automatically switch to
using the beta 2 profiles instead."
This statement seems rather clear, but when I checked afterwards the
profile selection was empty on *all images* that had the beta 1 profile
assigned before.
What does that mean? Did the automatic switch not work or is this just a
cosmetic glitch?
Cheers Martin

Lightroom 4.3 camera profiles. V3 beta no more available!

After fresh installation of Lightroom 4.3, I am not able to install old nikon camera profiles v3 beta, therefore my old pictures are darker by -0,5EV. Copied profiles to the proper directory and NOTHING!

Found the answer:
http://forums.adobe.com/thread/1116231?tstart=0

Beta camera profiles

Hello: I just downloaded the beta camera profiles from the link posted on the adobe website. My question is rather primitive. When I open CS3 and click on the Camera Calibration Tab, I see a list of profiles that include some named:
Camera Faithful beta1
Camera Landscape beta1
Camera Neutral beta 1
Camera Portrait beta 1
Camera Standard beta 1
Could you please tell me which camera they pertain to? The photo I used was taken with a Canon 1Ds. Does it pertain to that camera's specific profile and to no other camera. I also have a Canon 1D Mark III. If I open a photo taken with this last camera, would the profiles be specific for the Mark III?
Thank you and pardon my ignorance.
Amada

I have a similar question. When using ACR 4.5 in Bridge (CS3) I see various camera specific profiles, but when I use LR 2.0 (final release, not beta) I only have a choice of ACR 4.4, ACR 4.3, and Adobe Standard Beta 1 when opening a previously converted to DNG file from Nikon D300 NEF. Should I be able to see other choices in LR 2.0

Current Lightroom / Camera Raw Camera Profile for Sony ILCE-6000 inaccurate: green cast in shadows! Capture one better! Please fix it!

Hi folks from Adobe!
Please take note that the current Lightroom / Adobe Camera Raw Camera Profile for the Sony ILCE-6000 is very inaccurate: There is a serious green cast in the shadows!
Capture One Express for Sony (which is free by the way) renders a lot more correctly!
Please correct this, since I'd rather buy the coming LR6 because of keeping my established workflow instead of going the Capture One route.
A good example can be found in the dpreview forum "LR5 A6K shadow pulling, a mess! Adobe LR is broken? "
Or search for Philp Reeves 3 weeks with the Sony A6000 review "3 Wochen mit der a6000", where he compares it to the Sony A7, using both times Lightroom to push the shadows.
The Sony A7 is fine where earth looks like brown earth, the A6000 picture looks like grass instead.
Please fix this! This is a high volume camera frequently bought by enthusiast or as second body for FF photographers. That would be really great!

I am talking about the two raw files linked in the very last post of page 6 of the Reeves comparison thread, not JPGs or screenshots of unknown manipulation. In LR they both say f/11 and ISO 100 and have a similar tone, but one is shot at twice the shutter speed as the other. This side-by-side is using Adobe Factory Defaults for each image where the profile is Adobe Standard, the toning sliders are all 0, tone-curve linear, and the Sharpening and Color NR are 25:
However, when I look at the camera-embedded JPGs, side-by-side, the 1/80th image on the left is darker than the 1/40th image on the right, as expected given the reported shutter-speed difference:
And it is indeed the darker image that has more shadow problems, also as expected.
When I do manipulate the darker (a6000) raw file in LR, I do see that the shadows are greenish when brightened unlike most other cameras which usually show magenta, which is the combination of the blue and red sensors showing more noise because there are half-as-many photosites as compared to the green, so I am seeing what people are complaining about and would expect shadow noise to be purple not green, I'm more concerned that these two example raws aren't actually comparable due to apparent differences in exposure. It is also odd that the lens listed in LR is different than the lens listed in the filename, so either someone has mistakenly or deliberately renamed the file wrong or someone or something has changed the EXIF parameters that LR is reporting to be the same when they're really not.

Adobe Beta Camera Profiles

Sorry to ask such a stupid question, but how do you use/apply the profiles?
I know they are selected in the camera calibration tab, but are they camera specific? What is the best one to choose for 'normal' use? 'Camera standard'?
Thanks.

I have been really impressed with the camera profiles - in my case the Standard NEF for a D3 - and posted a complimentary message to that effect on the Labs LR beta2 forum under the pseudonym Rockshead.
The revelation that each profile is camera specific raises a particular question about that for the D3. Whilst the conversions at 'normal' ISO ratings are - as I said - stunning; the same cannot be said of those for the very high ISO numbers, available with the D3, compared to the conversion in View/CaptureNX. Applying LR noise reduction - by the bucket load - cerrtainly aids the definition, but has little effect on the colour differences.
I suppose my question is, is this something that we have to live with; or is there hope for the future that this will be able to be sorted using tweaked profiles. Let me hasten to say, I am content to live with it for the relatively few ultra high ISO pictures I deal with. No complaints at all from me on the way Adobe has tackled this problem. Nevertheless, regular use of high ISOs is coming, and so it is a legitimate question.

Thinking behind 'beta' as in Camera Profiles

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