Time Machine - how does it handle a full disc when increments are deleted?

I have a 500G.
I could not find any info on the following, so would greatly appreciate help.
My understanding of how it works is
- there is an initial backup - FULL (step0)
- the next steps are incremental i.e.
- step 1 is a delta between the state at the time and step0
- step 2 is the difference between the state at the time and step1
- etc
The questions are the following
1) will there ever be another FULL backup? or all are from step0 on incremental?
2) if the disk is full, what will be deleted?
2a) if an intermediate step is deleted how will the TIme Machine build the next step??
3) if I need to recover/restore, will it start from step0 and then apply step1, step2, step3, etc till it is complete?
3a) if this is the case, how are "deletions" handled, in case there is no more disc space (previous question)
many TIA!
luis

luissimoes, Welcome to the discussion area!
These are really Time Machine questions not Time Capsule questions.
1) will there ever be another FULL backup? or all are from step0 on incremental?
No and yes.
2) if the disk is full, what will be deleted?
From what I understand (and I could be wrong)...
The files deleted from the source drive starting with the earliest ones deleted. i.e. files deleted on Jan 1 will be removed from the backup before those deleted on Jan 2.
After the deleted files have been removed. The oldest versions of files with multiple versions will be deleted.
2a) if an intermediate step is deleted how will the TIme Machine build the next step??
A complete intermediate step would only be deleted if all the files involved had been deleted from the source drive or newer versions of those files were already backed up.
3) if I need to recover/restore, will it start from step0 and then apply step1, step2, step3, etc till it is complete?
Doubtful. That would be horribly inefficient even if nothing was ever removed from the Time Machine backup.

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TIME MACHINE - How does it really work?

Dear Mac users and Apple;
I am new to Mac. For most of my life I used Windows OS. One of the cool features on my new iMac 24'' is TM. In the past I used to use Norton Ghost for creating back ups and safeguarding my data.
Though there is a lot of info on www.apple.com and in the forums I can not find any satisfactory information about the true way of how Time Machine (TM) works.
Below I describe all my concerns, but in order to put them into perspective here is what I was used to on PC while using Norton Ghost. I would run a one time back up of my whole system drive (C:) and other drive (D:) which had my documents on it and then schedule regular back ups (weekly in my case). These were incremental back ups which only " added" the files which changed in the mean time. Of course, this method also meant that anything done between the back ups was at risk of being lost until next back up took place.
When I stated using TM, I assumed a lot of how it works based on my experience described above. However, I ran across this forum http://discussions.apple.com/thread.jspa?messageID=6096304&#6096304 and got pretty confused as to how it really works. I searched for explanations but all I find is us users guessing. I believe Apple should provide its customers with clear explanation and documentation how TM works.
If you read the long formum thread you will understand what I am talking about. If not here is a rough summary.
A guy backed up his data using TM, then after checking it is there he deleted the originals from the source drive only to find out later that the back ups were deleted from TM as well.
The thread goes on and these are the questions I have as a result - I kindly beg you to answer them for me:
1. TM does 1st back up of the whole Mac, at first - correct? This data stays until TM runs out of space on the back up drive, correct?
2.)TM does hourly back ups which are kept for 24 hrs (one day), then only a daily back up stays - which one out of the 24 is considered the daly back up? Or is it a separate back up?
3.)TM does daily back ups which stay for a month then are deleted?
4.)TM does weekly back up and this back up stays until TM runs out of space on the back up destination drive, correct? If yes, when does it take place?( 7days from the initial back up and then again each 7 days?
5.) If I create a file and then delete it before hourly back up stores it, it is not backed up at all, correct?
6.) If I create a file and then delete it once it was backed up by the hourly back up is it stored for 24 hours (one day) and then deleted?
7.) If I create a file and delete it once it was backed up by the daily backup, it stays for a month in the back ups of TM but then is deleted?
8.) If I create a file and it is backed up by the weekly back up, then is deleted - it resides in the weekly back up until TM runs out of space on the destination back up drive and deletes the original weekly back up, correct?
From this, if my assumptions above are right, it means that only files backed up by the weekly back up are kept until back up destination drive has space left. Then it would mean that it is important for me to know when the weekly back up takes place, so that I know that "now is the time and the files I have on my source drive now will stay in the target back up drive as long as it has space".
Further, it would mean that the hourly and daily back ups are kind of temporary back ups which give me the chance to restore the file within 24 hrs if backed up in the hourly back up, or restore it within one month if backed up by the daily back up. If backed up by the weekly back up, then it can be restored any time as long as the back up drive is not full. Is that correct?
IF I do a forced back up (Ctrl click on TM in the dock and then order it " Back up now") is this a back up which stays until back up external disk is full or is it a temporary back up (like the hourly and/or daily)?
Another issue is as follows: If I delete an application from my hard drive BUT it was backed up in the past by TM - can that application be launched automatically without first asking for my (users) permission from the TM's back up on the eternal hard drive? E.g. I install Adobe reader - it is backed up by TM. Then I uninstall it. Then, I download a PDF document, click it to open - does Adobe reader open from the TM back up? If NOT - great, that is how I expect it to work. If YES, then does it warn me about being opened from TM back up? YES it does warn me - great work apple. NO it does not - why? If the later is the case then if you exchange Adobe reader for spyware or malware or a virus, you have a vulnerability how viruses etc. can be reintroduced to system from TM back ups even after cleaned from the original hard disk. Please let me know how it really works.

1. TM does 1st back up of the whole Mac, at first - correct? This data stays until TM runs out of space on the back up drive, correct?
Respectively right and wrong. Out of all the hourly backups it makes, TM keeps only the first of each day for longer than 24 hours and one (presumably the first) of each week longer than one month. Any data which is not part of one of the retained backups is lost. Clearly this may happen long before the drive runs out of space and TM begins deleting the retained backups (oldest first).
2.)TM does hourly back ups which are kept for 24 hrs (one day), then only a daily back up stays - which one out of the 24 is considered the daly back up? Or is it a separate back up?
TM keeps only the first backup of each day for longer than 24 hours. When you bring up a daily backup in TM's browser, you will see on the big shiny black bar along the bottom not only the date but the precise time of the backup you are looking at.
3.)TM does daily back ups which stay for a month then are deleted?
One per week is retained (presumably the first but Apple isn't saying and I haven't seen that confirmed by anyone yet). The others are deleted.
4.)TM does weekly back up and this back up stays until TM runs out of space on the back up destination drive, correct? If yes, when does it take place?( 7days from the initial back up and then again each 7 days?
Don't know about timing. By analogy with the daily backups I would guess first of the week. But remember this is not a separate backup, it is one of the original hourly backups which survives the progressive culling process.
5.) If I create a file and then delete it before hourly back up stores it, it is not backed up at all, correct?
Correct.
6.) If I create a file and then delete it once it was backed up by the hourly back up is it stored for 24 hours (one day) and then deleted?
It is stored for at least 24 hours. If it was never on the first backup of any day it will not survive longer. Otherwise it will.
7.) If I create a file and delete it once it was backed up by the daily backup, it stays for a month in the back ups of TM but then is deleted?
If it was in the first backup of any day then it will be in the backup with that date so long as that backup is retained (at least 30 days and until the drive is full if that day is retained as the weekly backup).
8.) If I create a file and it is backed up by the weekly back up, then is deleted - it resides in the weekly back up until TM runs out of space on the destination back up drive and deletes the original weekly back up, correct?
If it is in the backup chosen as the weekly backup it will be available until that backup is deleted by TM for lack of space.
From this, if my assumptions above are right, it means that only files backed up by the weekly back up are kept until back up destination drive has space left. Then it would mean that it is important for me to know when the weekly back up takes place, so that I know that "now is the time and the files I have on my source drive now will stay in the target back up drive as long as it has space".
I wouldn't advise thinking like this. If you wish to retain long term a particular file TM is not the answer. You should separately archive it outside TM. As has been pointed out elsewhere, you could just copy it to the drive TM is running on, but outside TM's backup folder (however note that this will reduce the space available for TM's backups).
Further, it would mean that the hourly and daily back ups are kind of temporary back ups which give me the chance to restore the file within 24 hrs if backed up in the hourly back up, or restore it within one month if backed up by the daily back up. If backed up by the weekly back up, then it can be restored any time as long as the back up drive is not full. Is that correct?
Correct.
IF I do a forced back up (Ctrl click on TM in the dock and then order it " Back up now") is this a back up which stays until back up external disk is full or is it a temporary back up (like the hourly and/or daily)?
Good question. I have no reason to think that forced backups are priviledged in any way, but who knows? Anyone got any comment?
I install Adobe reader - it is backed up by TM. Then I uninstall it. Then, I download a PDF document, click it to open - does Adobe reader open from the TM back up?
Nothing in the backups is available to you until you have restored it. Interesting question is: if an application is restored, are any other files its original installer would have placed in the system and are needed to run it restored as well? One would like to think so but maybe that's too hard for TM? I would recommend that any major application that has been disinstalled be reinstalled from the original disks rather than relying on TM. Of course, if you've just accidently trashed an application file you can restore it from TM no problem.
Only after restoring it from TM can you use it.
Hope these comments help and anyone with more info adds their piece. TM is proving more confusing than it looked at first glance!

How do I transfer from time machine lightroom programme to my girlfriends computer (backed up on time machine) with out setting up my full desktop - i need it until i can afford a new computer to restore my old set up completely.

How do I transfer from time machine adobe lightroom programme to my girlfriends computer (backed up on my hard drive via time machine) with out setting up my full desktop - i need it until i can afford a new computer to restore my old set up completely.
Any ideas, I can access files - i.e. jpegs of old work, but can't edit new photos...
P

If you have a license for Lightroom, you should be able to reinstall it from an installer disc or re-download it from Adobe after explaining the situation and clarifying the license issues. Either will be simpler than trying to extract and install it from a TM backup of a different Mac, I think. If it's anything like other Adobe products, it has bits and pieces all over the place that you'll have to find and put in their right places on your girlfirend's Mac.

How does FCP handle 23.98 DV Files?

Hi All,
Has anyone Edited using the DV-NTSC 24P (23.98fps) Easy Setup?
1) How does FCP handle this video connected to a DV Converter Box like the Canopus ADVC-110?
2) Does it actually play at 23.98fps on a monitor connected to the DV Converter Box?
3) Does it get converted to 29.97fps somewhere in the process before it gets displayed?
4) is it displayed at 29.97fps or is it really being displayed at 23.98fps?
these are things that I am not sure of.
sorry if I posted this message a couple of times. I didn't know that hitting the "Tab" Button posts the message, I thought it would just function like the Tab in a normal Text editor and indent a line. But here it doesn't.
thanks
Kalagan

Hi,
Thanks for the feed back. I guess I should fill in the caps a little.
*DESCRIPTION OF ISSUE:*
One of our main Clients Disney, is migrating to a Tapeless Workflow based on ProRes HQ 422 @ 23.98fps. From here on out, they will only send us ProRes HQ 422 1920x1080 files @ 23.98fps and they want us to Edit every project we work on for them @ 23.98fps. At the moment, it doesn't sound like they care if we Edit our projects in ProRes HD or some SD format, but the important thing to them is that we edit @ 23.98fps.
PROBLEM:
Our facility doesn't have the infrastructure to support 25 machines accessing ProRes HQ 422 files. Our facility was built to support DV NTSC @ 29.97fps and we have been working this way fairly well, for a number of years.
SOLUTION:
I am trying to find a way to continue to us our current equipment and satisfy Disney's request to work on all their projects at 23.98fps, starting from 1920x1080 ProRes HQ 422 files @ 23.98fps. So, it was my hope to be able to take the 23.98fps ProRes files and export them to 23.98fps DV NTSC. This way we wouldn't have to reconfigure our entire Facility (which would cost a couple hundred Thousand dollars).
My approach was to:
1) Use Media Manager to render a new DV NTSC file at 23.98fps, which it does pretty well for the most part. It keeps the Timecode consistent between the two files (very important), but doesn't allow you to Letterbox the 16x9 video in the 4x3 frame, it just stretches it to fill the entire 4x3 frame (not so good).
2) Then import the newly created DV NTSC 23.98fps file into a FCP Project based on the DV NTSC 24(p) 23.98fps EASY SETUP. Which works well. No problems there.
3) Then Play the file in FCP out through a Firewire based Canopus ADVC-110 DV Converter connected to a SD Sony Monitor. This seemed to worked fine also.
The fact that it plays is great!!!! But, that brings up the question, is it really playing a 23.98fps?
My understanding of Standard Definition and specifically DV NTSC, is that it can only be displayed at 29.97fps, it doesn't support 23.98fps natively. So the fact that it played when I tested it got me thinking that I may be missing something here and DV NTSC and other SD equipment (like the Sony SD Monitor) can playback/support 23.98fps SD video. But that goes against everything I know up to this point!!!
Have I been wrong all this time?
1) Can SD Video and DV NTSC Video be displayed at 23.98fps?
2) Or is it getting converted to 29.97fps somewhere in the process before it is getting displayed?
3) If it is getting converted back to 29.97fps, then where is it getting converted, FCP or in the DV Converter Box?
I am sorry I went a little long on this email, but it is a problem that will have great influence on they way we work for a couple of years to come!!
Thanks for your input!!
Kalagan

If I update from 10.6.8 to Mavericks and I have a time machine backup, can I do a full restore back to 10.6.8 and resume as if I had never updated?

If I update from 10.6.8 to Mavericks and I have a time machine backup, can I do a full restore back to 10.6.8 and resume as if I had never updated if there is a problem? Probably an answer I should know but I don't. Thanks in advance! (instruction suggestions welcomed)

Upgrading the OS is a system wide thing. So all users will receive the upgrade.
It should not delete files and such. However, if you have for example files made with Pages '09. Then the new Pages that comes with Mavericks will make a copy of those files so you can continue to edit them. But those new files can not be opened in Pages '09. BUT again, some people perfer Pages '09 and they use that still. Mavericks will just hide Pages '09, it's still usable in Mavericks just hidden.
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Clicking the Time Machine icon does nothing.

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nerowolfe wrote:
Bobsax wrote:
Can I close my macbook while Time Machine is doing it's thing?
I've read some conflicting info on sleep and TM
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If closing your lid forces the machine to sleep, you will force TM to abort.
If closing the lid allows TM to continue, then it's OK.
TM does not work while the computer is sleeping.
Since TM usually takes a minute or less after the first backup unless you have created a large file, why close the lid?
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I'm doing a full backup so it's taking awhile.
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I accidentally combined all of my photos on iphoto to be one event. i have it the way i want it saved on my external harddrive from time machine. how do i make my computer go back to that

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http://pondini.org/TM/15.html
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the box is checked that has the icon appear in my menu
Uncheck it and check it again. Any change? If not, see below.
Please read this whole message before doing anything.
This procedure is a test, not a solution. Don’t be disappointed when you find that nothing has changed after you complete it.
Step 1
The purpose of this step is to determine whether the problem is localized to your user account.
Enable guest logins* and log in as Guest. Don't use the Safari-only “Guest User” login created by “Find My Mac.”
While logged in as Guest, you won’t have access to any of your personal files or settings. Applications will behave as if you were running them for the first time. Don’t be alarmed by this; it’s normal. If you need any passwords or other personal data in order to complete the test, memorize, print, or write them down before you begin.
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The login screen appears even if you usually log in automatically. You must know your login password in order to log in. If you’ve forgotten the password, you will need to reset it before you begin.
Test while in safe mode. Same problem?
After testing, restart as usual (not in safe mode) and verify that you still have the problem. Post the results of Steps 1 and 2.

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When it's on the timeline, is it being conformed to the frame rate of the video?
When audio is exported, does FCPX force it to conform to the video frame rate in the project settings, audio properties, or both? Or does it allow the audio to export at whatever rate the original media is at?
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Also, to get out to an AAF with X2Pro, it does not support retiming, so I had to strip out 22 instances of retiming.
Whew, glad that's all over! Hopefully this AAF will be pristine for my audio post supervisor to bring into ProTools!
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Open Macintosh HD > Applications > Utilities > AirPort Utility
Click the AirPort Utility menu just to the right of the Apple icon in the upper left corner of the screen
Choose About AirPort Utility
What version of AirPort Utility do you have?

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Time Machine - how does it handle a full disc when increments are deleted?

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