TS4531 Thunderbolt external HDD on Windows 8

Windows 8 doesn't recognise the thunderbolt external HDD if plugged in while the OS is running.
If I reboot the system , its working good.
The plug n play is not working.
I have tried turning off the 'Turn on fast startup' option but no success. The thunderbolt device is recognised only when plugged in before system boot.

it's because of the thunderbolt implementation in windows
same issue with the few motherboards which support thunderbolt
out for build self windows computers
maybe microsoft will change the windows implementation if thunderbolt becomes a success on normal windows computers
though since intel require a higher copyright for licensing thunderbolt then they do usb3 then thunderbolts success on windows is unknown

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It's for video files for editing depending on which computer I want to work on at the time (and location). It's not a drama, just trying to make it easier for myself and not keep too many big files on the internal drives. I can also put one of my FW800 drives on the MacBook and transfer between the two external drives (or MacBook and FW800) and plug it back on the iMac.
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Using an external hdd with windows on boot camp

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Im looking into using boot camp, and was thinking
about the option that you get for seeing files that
you create in XP within mac OSX,
well, wot would
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ive got one connected thru firewire, and when i use
"Get Info" it tells me the format is Mac OS
Extended.
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and would i
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iFelix

Need help with pictures on an external HDD and windows labtop to Ipad3

Hallo everybody!
This week (I finally) bought an Ipad 3 and an Apple TV!
For the time being I still have a windows labtop and an external HDD full with photo's.
The ICloud software for windows has been installed because I would like to stream the pictures from this external HDD to my Ipad and then ofcourse on my flatscreen TV (via Apple TV). And ofcourse back, when I have taken a photo or a movie on the Ipad 3.
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Itunes library is on a mac formatted external hdd: can windows recognize it

subject pretty much says it all. can windows recognize my mac formatted external hdd? i know when i had my ipod formatted to windows, the mac recognized it, but will the mac formatted drive allow windows to see it, play the music, and possibly move it to my ipod?
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Default, Windows will not recognize Mac formatted disks.
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Take a look at this page: http://www.macwindows.com/disks2.html
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M

External HDDs With Windows XP SP2

Hello, Tomorrow I will be installing Windows XP on both of my macs (both run 10.5.2). I have 3 external HDDs connected to one of them, two of which use USB and one Firewire 800 (one of the USB HDDs is formated in FAT32 and the rest of the HDDs in Mac OS Extended Journaled). My question is, when I boot into Windows XP, will XP be able to see the HDDs Formated in Mac OS Extended and if so will it complain that they need reformatting? I never disconnect them, so will this be a problem?

Welcome to the Apple Forums:
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Axel F.

External Hdd with Windows XP Question

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Welcome to the Apple Forums:
P will not see the drive formatted with in OS extended and therefore will not complain about it. You can leave them connected while in XP.
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Axel F.

Install snow leopard on external hdd using windows

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Ummm, this is posted in the forum for help with iTunes on Mac.
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NEW Macbook air and external HDD with windows files

Hi,
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I depends in what format the external drive is formatted as to how easy this is going to be.
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Thunderbolt, External HDDs and an iMac connectivity

Hi,
So I have the aluminum unibody 13inch macbook. (Snowleopard) I also have a mid 2011 iMac 27 inch. (Lion)
I am looking into buying a RAID arranged external HDD, such as the LaCie 2Big 6tb or WD 6tb units and would like to utiliise the associated sped for video editing. However both see to only have thunderbolt connections.
I frequently shoot video in the field and load for preview on my Macbook. So how would I go about getting the media from the macbook to the RAID media store once I'm back at home?
Can I:
Connect the macbook as a tethered disk to the iMac and then use the iMac to transfer from the Macbook to the RAID? I appreciate the transfer limitation will be the USB connection to the macbook in ths case, but would it work?
As an additional question, since the Macbook has wifi and ethernet connectivity, which would be the fastest data transfer rate that I could use?
Thanks in advance, any other solutoin would be appreciated...

BDAqua, 480Mbit/s vs 100Mbps. Is the former in MBITS and the latter in MBYTES, meaning wifi is much faster?
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My macbook retina (15" mid 2012) crash when plug Lacie Thunderbolt external HDD

Hello,
I got this problem several times, and now I decided to post here to find some help. I got a macbook retina 15" mid 2012 and a Lacie 1T Rugged Thunderbolt. They works together perfectly at the first few months. And the crash started to happen about 4-5 months ago. It sometime crash my mac when I plug the Lacie in, sometime not. I tried to run the Lacie Firmware Updater but it said "No Lacie devices found".
Anyone please help.
Below is the log from the Console-> System Diagnostic Reports on Jan 7th 2014:
The log file name is : "wpa_supplicant_2014-01-07-000045_cuongs-MacBook-Pro.crash"
Process:         wpa_supplicant [132]
Path:            /Library/StartupItems/wpa_supplicant_srv/wpa_supplicant
Identifier:      wpa_supplicant
Version:         ???
Code Type:       X86 (Native)
Parent Process: launchd [1]
Responsible:     SystemStarter [115]
User ID:         0
Date/Time:       2014-01-07 00:00:45.420 -0500
OS Version:      Mac OS X 10.9 (13A603)
Report Version: 11
Anonymous UUID: E0CBEC6A-A197-B3B1-60B3-D048528D270B
Crashed Thread: 0 Dispatch queue: com.apple.main-thread
Exception Type: EXC_BAD_ACCESS (SIGBUS)
Exception Codes: KERN_PROTECTION_FAILURE at 0x0000000000000078
VM Regions Near 0x78:
--> __PAGEZERO             0000000000000000-0000000000001000 [    4K] ---/--- SM=NUL /Library/StartupItems/wpa_supplicant_srv/wpa_supplicant
    __TEXT                 0000000000001000-000000000005b000 [ 360K] r-x/rwx SM=COW /Library/StartupItems/wpa_supplicant_srv/wpa_supplicant
Thread 0 Crashed:: Dispatch queue: com.apple.main-thread
0   wpa_supplicant                          0x00045d6c l2_packet_receive + 63
Thread 0 crashed with X86 Thread State (32-bit):
eax: 0x00000000 ebx: 0x00008ba0 ecx: 0x00000001 edx: 0x020fee00
edi: 0x020fee00 esi: 0x00045d2d ebp: 0xbffffc88 esp: 0xbffffc40
   ss: 0x00000023 efl: 0x00010212 eip: 0x00045d6c   cs: 0x0000001b
   ds: 0x00000023   es: 0x00000023   fs: 0x00000000   gs: 0x0000000f
cr2: 0x00000078
Logical CPU:     3
Error Code:      0x00000004
Trap Number:     14
Binary Images:
    0x1000 -    0x5afff +wpa_supplicant (???) <4CC4D923-8EC1-4402-F06C-1C2C4747E543> /Library/StartupItems/wpa_supplicant_srv/wpa_supplicant
0x8feb6000 - 0x8fee8417 dyld (239.3) <4B280BB1-55F8-313F-86A6-8ADD644ED69E> /usr/lib/dyld
0x900c6000 - 0x900cbff3 libsystem_platform.dylib (24.1.4) <875321B9-34EF-3FCC-880C-633FA05223F5> /usr/lib/system/libsystem_platform.dylib
0x90205000 - 0x9020ffff com.apple.bsd.ServiceManagement (2.0 - 2.0) <B84F3916-236A-347B-9C1F-3DE571496737> /System/Library/Frameworks/ServiceManagement.framework/Versions/A/ServiceManage ment
0x90210000 - 0x902fcff7 libxml2.2.dylib (26) <32040145-6FD6-3AD2-B98B-39F73BF9AC47> /usr/lib/libxml2.2.dylib
0x90346000 - 0x903affff com.apple.datadetectorscore (5.0 - 354.0) <0C6C812D-3E7A-31A4-BFDE-CD3316AA35B6> /System/Library/PrivateFrameworks/DataDetectorsCore.framework/Versions/A/DataDe tectorsCore
0x903b0000 - 0x903b4ffc libpam.2.dylib (20) <50623D44-795F-3E28-AA85-23E0E7E2AE0E> /usr/lib/libpam.2.dylib
0x903b5000 - 0x904c7ffc libsqlite3.dylib (158) <B3DB0FED-FE4C-314D-8329-CF7708C8AAF4> /usr/lib/libsqlite3.dylib
0x904c9000 - 0x90532fff com.apple.SystemConfiguration (1.13 - 1.13) <542075CD-9085-3F30-B84B-DD0277D6A40E> /System/Library/Frameworks/SystemConfiguration.framework/Versions/A/SystemConfi guration
0x90533000 - 0x9059dff7 com.apple.framework.CoreWiFi (2.0 - 200.21.1) <13EE6C12-B981-3132-864A-D493B91AE37E> /System/Library/Frameworks/CoreWiFi.framework/Versions/A/CoreWiFi
0x905a3000 - 0x905a6ff9 com.apple.TCC (1.0 - 1) <A5FCF7AA-3F56-3A19-9DF1-661F1F02F79D> /System/Library/PrivateFrameworks/TCC.framework/Versions/A/TCC
0x9096a000 - 0x9096bfff libsystem_blocks.dylib (63) <2AC67D5E-ECD4-3644-A53C-9684F9B7AA33> /usr/lib/system/libsystem_blocks.dylib
0x90afd000 - 0x90b25fff libsystem_info.dylib (449.1.3) <BB68E8CC-422F-3121-8C86-D0F766FB696D> /usr/lib/system/libsystem_info.dylib
0x90c5b000 - 0x90d06fff libcrypto.0.9.7.dylib (106) <DA3D5F8E-5822-3D41-BC1C-FFE1CC9BB42B> /usr/lib/libcrypto.0.9.7.dylib
0x90dfc000 - 0x910fdff7 com.apple.CoreServices.CarbonCore (1077.13 - 1077.13) <C514A490-8689-3665-AD82-863B5FF8D6AE> /System/Library/Frameworks/CoreServices.framework/Versions/A/Frameworks/CarbonC ore.framework/Versions/A/CarbonCore
0x922e7000 - 0x922effff libcopyfile.dylib (103) <1B1484BD-08B6-3BA9-94CA-A7C24B610EB3> /usr/lib/system/libcopyfile.dylib
0x931a8000 - 0x931b6fff libxar.1.dylib (202) <B73748D4-F830-3C71-98B3-7A3ABF5136FD> /usr/lib/libxar.1.dylib
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0x93377000 - 0x93382ffb libcommonCrypto.dylib (60049) <F8E60C43-22EE-3E0B-9546-3365056901F1> /usr/lib/system/libcommonCrypto.dylib
0x934d0000 - 0x934d8fff liblaunch.dylib (842.1.4) <3798500D-4436-3AEB-B273-7F2428C33A4A> /usr/lib/system/liblaunch.dylib
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0x94051000 - 0x940afffd com.apple.AE (665.5 - 665.5) <54F2F247-160C-3A22-A6E3-5D49655A67AB> /System/Library/Frameworks/CoreServices.framework/Versions/A/Frameworks/AE.fram ework/Versions/A/AE
0x9447e000 - 0x94485ffb libsystem_pthread.dylib (53.1.4) <8B1B7B84-1B5D-32A8-AC0D-1E689E5C8A4C> /usr/lib/system/libsystem_pthread.dylib
0x94486000 - 0x944b7ffa libsystem_m.dylib (3047.16) <28E614E8-7802-3E84-960A-AD4721EF10F7> /usr/lib/system/libsystem_m.dylib
0x94854000 - 0x94871ff4 libsystem_kernel.dylib (2422.1.72) <C5641F6C-E271-380A-A656-AE4C04345602> /usr/lib/system/libsystem_kernel.dylib
0x948cf000 - 0x948e7ffd libdispatch.dylib (339.1.9) <6249BAE5-044F-3A7A-9CCC-03FF7E6B405B> /usr/lib/system/libdispatch.dylib
0x94a96000 - 0x94ad3ff7 libauto.dylib (185.5) <CD008E66-4A0C-35F5-8D72-80D76A716A03> /usr/lib/libauto.dylib
0x94b71000 - 0x94b7dffe libkxld.dylib (2422.1.72) <F9B35FA5-C936-3286-A055-2B0780A674AC> /usr/lib/system/libkxld.dylib
0x9553e000 - 0x9553fffd libunc.dylib (28) <22A126A1-DCFB-3BE5-A66B-C973F0A5D839> /usr/lib/system/libunc.dylib
0x965fd000 - 0x9667dff7 com.apple.CoreServices.OSServices (600.4 - 600.4) <1227DF22-E2DA-3764-A1CA-10CC0CEBE377> /System/Library/Frameworks/CoreServices.framework/Versions/A/Frameworks/OSServi ces.framework/Versions/A/OSServices
0x966c2000 - 0x966cdff6 com.apple.NetAuth (5.0 - 5.0) <3B2E9615-EE12-38FC-BDCF-09529FF9464B> /System/Library/PrivateFrameworks/NetAuth.framework/Versions/A/NetAuth
0x96c47000 - 0x96cd9ffe libsystem_c.dylib (997.1.1) <D06FD754-8CE3-3EB7-BE05-2EF939BBE05F> /usr/lib/system/libsystem_c.dylib
0x96cda000 - 0x96cdcfff libsystem_configuration.dylib (596.12) <1C31C3F6-568D-3854-AE03-A5DA2F39297E> /usr/lib/system/libsystem_configuration.dylib
0x97284000 - 0x973e6ff3 com.apple.CFNetwork (673.0.3 - 673.0.3) <5E0E9AE8-073B-3F2B-B0C7-A0129DE787F6> /System/Library/Frameworks/CFNetwork.framework/Versions/A/CFNetwork
0x97899000 - 0x978bdfff libxpc.dylib (300.1.17) <252BC88F-A5CA-3E67-AEDB-3D7B9F4537E2> /usr/lib/system/libxpc.dylib
0x978c1000 - 0x978ecff7 libpcap.A.dylib (42) <66FBEAD3-FE91-3A89-8706-FB95229068AC> /usr/lib/libpcap.A.dylib
0x978ed000 - 0x978edffd libOpenScriptingUtil.dylib (157) <4D06E8ED-D312-34EA-A448-DFF45ADC3CE5> /usr/lib/libOpenScriptingUtil.dylib
0x978ee000 - 0x978effff libDiagnosticMessagesClient.dylib (100) <B936B1D4-90BB-395D-8EA9-E1237608E7D0> /usr/lib/libDiagnosticMessagesClient.dylib
0x97929000 - 0x9792cfff libdyld.dylib (239.3) <729B32AC-EEE2-3739-8CE3-F90838D51906> /usr/lib/system/libdyld.dylib
0x9795e000 - 0x97b064af libobjc.A.dylib (551.1) <31CBE178-E972-30D1-ADC6-4B8345CAE326> /usr/lib/libobjc.A.dylib
0x97b07000 - 0x97b2aff7 libc++abi.dylib (48) <5367BE5A-D475-3FB4-972D-E1DC999A709A> /usr/lib/libc++abi.dylib
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0x99d80000 - 0x99e18ff7 com.apple.Metadata (10.7.0 - 800.12) <0AE4CD6B-FDFC-31ED-9F2C-FE870155CAF9> /System/Library/Frameworks/CoreServices.framework/Versions/A/Frameworks/Metadat a.framework/Versions/A/Metadata
0x9a165000 - 0x9a181fff libCRFSuite.dylib (34) <FFF76EBA-DF35-3A5F-857F-3F4B1C9F4C77> /usr/lib/libCRFSuite.dylib
0x9a28b000 - 0x9a451ffb libicucore.A.dylib (511.25) <44DDE9A4-578E-3D23-A41A-D8795D000A18> /usr/lib/libicucore.A.dylib
0x9a4ee000 - 0x9a6f0ff7 com.apple.CoreFoundation (6.9 - 855.11) <50F70E07-043A-3A2F-87EF-A36BA6C5C9D9> /System/Library/Frameworks/CoreFoundation.framework/Versions/A/CoreFoundation
0x9a6f1000 - 0x9a766ffb com.apple.framework.IOKit (2.0.1 - 907.1.13) <86D72735-9DFB-35C8-83F7-CE0DCF17D354> /System/Library/Frameworks/IOKit.framework/Versions/A/IOKit
0x9a767000 - 0x9a7bcfff libc++.1.dylib (120) <10C0A136-64F9-3CC2-9420-013247032120> /usr/lib/libc++.1.dylib
0x9a7c7000 - 0x9a83afff com.apple.SearchKit (1.4.0 - 1.4.0) <6F607AB6-7553-37BA-BEC5-98FD7C27FAD7> /System/Library/Frameworks/CoreServices.framework/Versions/A/Frameworks/SearchK it.framework/Versions/A/SearchKit
0x9a83b000 - 0x9a83bfff com.apple.CoreServices (59 - 59) <06747539-5035-3307-8645-9BC4E7F89023> /System/Library/Frameworks/CoreServices.framework/Versions/A/CoreServices
0x9a83c000 - 0x9ab67ff6 com.apple.Foundation (6.9 - 1056) <C8AE9C03-3460-354A-A8B6-EF4955BE600D> /System/Library/Frameworks/Foundation.framework/Versions/C/Foundation
0x9ab68000 - 0x9ab6cffa libcache.dylib (62) <9730D7F2-D226-3F30-8D26-BF598CB781F6> /usr/lib/system/libcache.dylib
0x9b009000 - 0x9b00afff libremovefile.dylib (33) <ED35EA79-EB06-3B84-A6D4-B1A9D6B8648D> /usr/lib/system/libremovefile.dylib
0x9b00b000 - 0x9b017ffc libbz2.1.0.dylib (29) <3CEF1E92-BA42-3F8A-8E8D-9E1F7658E5C7> /usr/lib/libbz2.1.0.dylib
0x9b05f000 - 0x9b067fff libsystem_dnssd.dylib (522.1.11) <1C015806-B971-34F9-B162-3DF7897351D0> /usr/lib/system/libsystem_dnssd.dylib
0x9c141000 - 0x9c145ff7 libmacho.dylib (845) <D8E93E59-1F80-3413-B9CF-78B848F6E873> /usr/lib/system/libmacho.dylib
0x9c16b000 - 0x9c17dfff libbsm.0.dylib (33) <1BE92DB5-0D2F-3BB5-BCC6-8A71EF2A3450> /usr/lib/libbsm.0.dylib
External Modification Summary:
Calls made by other processes targeting this process:
    task_for_pid: 0
    thread_create: 0
    thread_set_state: 0
Calls made by this process:
    task_for_pid: 0
    thread_create: 0
    thread_set_state: 0
Calls made by all processes on this machine:
    task_for_pid: 105
    thread_create: 0
    thread_set_state: 0
VM Region Summary:
ReadOnly portion of Libraries: Total=71.6M resident=14.6M(20%) swapped_out_or_unallocated=57.0M(80%)
Writable regions: Total=55.8M written=456K(1%) resident=500K(1%) swapped_out=0K(0%) unallocated=55.3M(99%)
REGION TYPE                      VIRTUAL
===========                      =======
Kernel Alloc Once                     4K
MALLOC                             47.6M
MALLOC (admin)                       16K
Stack                              64.0M
VM_ALLOCATE                           8K
__DATA                             1640K
__IMPORT                              4K
__LINKEDIT                         43.1M
__OBJC                              460K
__PAGEZERO                            4K
__TEXT                             28.5M
__UNICODE                           544K
mapped file                       188.5M
shared memory                         4K
===========                      =======
TOTAL                             374.3M

Please read this whole message before doing anything.
This procedure is a diagnostic test. It’s unlikely to solve your problem. Don’t be disappointed when you find that nothing has changed after you complete it.
The purpose of the test is to determine whether the problem is caused by third-party software that loads automatically at startup or login, by a peripheral device, by a font conflict, or by corruption of the file system or of certain system caches.
Disconnect all wired peripherals except those needed for the test, and remove all aftermarket expansion cards, if applicable. Start up in safe mode and log in to the account with the problem. You must hold down the shift key twice: once when you boot, and again when you log in.
Note: If FileVault is enabled, or if a firmware password is set, or if the boot volume is a software RAID, you can’t do this. Ask for further instructions.
Safe mode is much slower to boot and run than normal, with limited graphics performance, and some things won’t work at all, including sound output and Wi-Fi on certain models. The next normal boot may also be somewhat slow.
The login screen appears even if you usually login automatically. You must know your login password in order to log in. If you’ve forgotten the password, you will need to reset it before you begin.
Test while in safe mode. Same problem?
After testing, reboot as usual (not in safe mode) and verify that you still have the problem. Post the results of the test.

External HDD with Airport Extreme gets stuck

Hi guys,
I hope you can help me. I bought an Airport Extreme last december.
The problem is that I can enter my External HDD via Windows 7. After reading and writing at the HDD, Windows Explorer get stuck, and it will say it couldn't find the path Z:\ ..... My Airport Extreme also gets stuck. I lose my signal (still connected to Airport, but not to internet) and I have to unplug it. After it the Airport will start up again and everything works.
I tried several things but it didn't work:
- Hard reset
- Different hard disk (with external power supply)
- Today I went to the Apple Store in Haarlem, and I got a new Airport, but this one has the same problem!
I formatted the hard disk to FAT32.
Please help me!

Thank you for your reply!
My problem is slightly different. The hole AirPort is stuck, it won't do anything. Wifi stays connected, but there's no Internet connection. Also my iPad and iPhone don't have internet connection anymore.
The problem arise also when I'm just viewing pictures at the external hard disk, or just browsing through folders. The only way to get all working again is to unplug the AirPort from electricity.
It's kind a weird that Apple uses this feature as unique selling point, but unfortunately it doesn't work for PC!
Simple and secure file sharing.
AirPort Extreme can turn your external USB hard drive into a secure drive you can share across your Wi‑Fi network and access securely over the Internet. All the documents, videos, photos, and other files instantly become available to anyone on the network, Mac and PC users alike. It’s perfect for file sharing, collaborative projects, and more.

Windows 8 search not working for on particular folder on external HDD

I have an external HDD which has a library of pdf documents on it (about 11gigs worth) - it's in my index and it used to be perfectly searchable by windows search until I had the files system converted to NTFS from FAT32. Now it literally will not
find anything in the folder with all the pdfs in it (even if you search "pdf" it wont find a single thing) yet it will find anything else in any other folder on the same drive.
I have no idea what the problem is. That folder is also shared, and is a google drive. Any ideas would be appreciated, thanks, DB

check out this link:
http://www.softwareok.com/?seite=faq-Windows-8&faq=78
from above link:
To change the Windows-8 indexing options, please open Indexing Options Window. Press the key combination [Windows Logo] + [R],
then just type the command control.exe srchadmin.dll [...
see Image 1 Arrow-1]
Click Modify [...
see Image 1 Arrow-2] and please check the mark in the checkbox of the folders that you want[...
see Image 1 Arrow-4]
(Image-1) Windows-8 Indexing Options and Indexed Locations.
Every second counts..make use of it. Disclaimer: This posting is provided AS IS with no warranties or guarantees and confers no rights.

External HDD to be shared with Mac and Windows XP

I wish to share an external HDD via firewire/USB between an ibook G4 on OSX 10.3.9 and Windows XP. Apart from using FAT32 and having partitions for each OS just in case can anyone share any risks considerations I need to be aware of? I intend on having a generic 320Gb Seagate drive installed into an aluminium box but for some reason Lacie seem to be particularly good with Mac's and I can't ascertain why.
ibook G4 Mac OS X (10.3.9) Acer Windows XP

There appears to be some misunderstanding about what systems can read or write what hard drives.
OS X can read and write HPS+ and FAT32 formatted drives, and can read, but not write to NTFS drives. Windows can read and write NTFS and FAT32 drives, and cannot read nor write HPS+ drives. Fresh out of the box the only read/write file sharing is via FAT32 drives.
There are reasonable methods for expanding this capability.
(1) Windows can be given the ability to read and write HPS+ drives by installing MacDrive 6 on the Windows machine. As far as I know there is no software available which gives OS X the ability to read and write NTFS drives - - maybe it exists or is under develpment somewhere.
(2) Both OSX and Windows can read/write files that are on a networked file server regardless of the file system used by that file server. The server hides its underlying file system from clients. Just connecting a network capable HDD to a router is NOT the same thing as having a file server on the network - - the same basic file limitations still exist.

External HDD StorE PA4096-1HF4 not detected in Windows 7

External HDD Model: PA4096-1HF4
Type: StorE Art 640 GB, 3.5 inch, USB 2.0
OS: Windows 7 Home Premium
The drive is not showing up in explorer (computer) or device manager or disk management.
Only _*suggestion*_
I have found so far is to uninstall USB ports/hubs from the machine and then restarting the machine.
So far the USB ports are working fine - other devices e.g. mouse, pen drive etc. work properly when connected to those ports.
I wish to know:
1. Will uninstalling USB ports/hubs and restarting fix the problem?
2. Is there an alternative and better solution available?
Thank You.

Have you tested it on other computer with Win7 or with computer with other operating system?

TS4531 Thunderbolt external HDD on Windows 8

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