Unable to Capture with MiniDV Deck - Strange Problem

Hello everyone,
I apologize if this is a repeat, but I couldn't find an answer among other discussions. I'll try to be as specific as possible..
The problem revolves around capturing a MiniDV tape. We are using a Sony GV-D1000 deck, which is connected via Firewire. Final Cut Pro recognizes the deck as a Device Control and Capture/Input setting.
We can control the deck, but we can't capture from it. The Log and Capture window reads "Preview Disabled". When attempting to capture, it pauses for a second and then says "The operation could not be completed as there is no video." This is very odd since the deck's display shows actively running video..
Our system is as follows:
8-core Mac Pro 2x3 GHz
10GB RAM
ATI RadeonX1900
BlackMagic DeckLink HD Extreme Card
w/a bunch of Lacie hard drives which I kept off during the troubleshooting..
Things I have tried:
- Restarting without Firewire devices running
- Trashing FCP prefs in the library folder
- Repairing Permissions in Disk Utility
I found an article here that was interesting...
http://support.apple.com/kb/TA24110
It kinda implies that the other audio card (BlackMagic HD Extreme) might be the problem. But there is no way to disable this card... or is there?
Can anyone help me?
Thanks in advance.

Hey everyone. Thanks for all the troubleshooting. Getting close to identifying the problem.
I brought the deck home with me to try it out on my personal MacBook Pro system. Same problem. the tape would play back, you could control the deck, but it would not import.
David brought up the tape itself, which, logically, I hadn't even thought of. So I threw in a completely different tape and voila! No problems. Was able to control the deck, view the video on my Mac's display (finally!) and yes, capture video to disk.
Just to make sure the deck wasn't being screwy, I tested both the original tape and the other on my personal miniDV camera and yielded the same results. Except when playing back the original, video wouldn't even display on the camera's LCD screen..
In short:
There has to be something funky with this tape that they gave us. We will probably ship it to another post house and see if they can get it to work out on a different deck. When I return to the office, I will try the other tape just to confirm there's nothing wrong with our Mac Pro system there..
Thank you all for you troubleshooting wisdom. I owe you all one.

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Hey everyone. Thanks for all the troubleshooting. Getting close to identifying the problem.
I brought the deck home with me to try it out on my personal MacBook Pro system. Same problem. the tape would play back, you could control the deck, but it would not import.
David brought up the tape itself, which, logically, I hadn't even thought of. So I threw in a completely different tape and voila! No problems. Was able to control the deck, view the video on my Mac's display (finally!) and yes, capture video to disk.
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To counter this, the AJ-HD1400 offers two modes specifically for this called '25(SD)' and '25(HD)'. They output the 25fps signal with new timecode on a 50Hz carrier (only over SDI/Analogue the Firewire doesn't work in that mode).
It only works with 25fps material too, any other 'offspeed' rate has to be dealt with separately with the deck operating in 59/60 mode.
When operating in either of these 25 modes, the deck generates new 25fps timecode from the tape (although our tests have indicated that it is frame accurate of multiple playback passes).
Basically, Varicam, while a very nice idea, has only ever been properly designed to work in a 60Hz environment. It is pretty much a nightmare in 50Hz environments.
I think I may have found the cause of the problem.
For some reason when I started my project it had a Device Control profile set to 720p50 (rather than the 1080i50 that the deck is operating in).
What this seems to have done is double the frame number on any clip it encountered. So if I took a clip with in marked at 01:02:40:22 and dropped it in the Log and Capture tool the In Point that FCP decided to look for was 01:02:40:44 (which isn't going to exist on a 25fps timecode obviously).
Since you are using Pal
Go :
Generic OHCI HD 50hz -> 960x720 25p over 60p
Because if I am right you can't do Pal over 60hz but you can do PAL over 60P at 50hz.
( but I could be wrong)
But the other problem is that you are using an ntsc profile to capture pal recorded footage.
50 hz 960x720 over 60P yields a frame rate of 25 progressive
60 hz 960x720 59.94p yields a frame rate of 59.94 progressive which is far from your original footage . Mostly used for countries using natively ntsc
Neither myself, nor Ricksta (I don't think) are using NTSC-rate profiles.
The Preset setting I've been testing with is:
Generic OHCI HD 50Hz 960x720 25p over 60p
Indeed, I've just tried what Rick mentioned, and with the deck in 59.94Hz operating frequency, I can capture with all three 720p 59/60 input settings. This is technically wrong however, as the tape has been recorded at 60Hz. But like I said before, until Rick hears from the big geeks at Panasonic about this, I don't know what the real outcome of that difference in frequency is.
I've also tried a 50p over 60p project setting (as 720p50 is what I will be editing with in Avid) - but, predictably, this works but gives me double-speed footage. Which, while amusing, isn't a lot of help for me
A large part of the problem I'm facing here is to do with the Varicam format. It will record any framerate from 1-60fps. It has to operate and a system-frequency of 59.94Hz or 60Hz. That is what Rick and I are referring to. The limitation I face is that the Varicam format is not widely supported for PAL-based rates (25/50) as it requires communication with a deck operating in an NTSC-based system frequency (either 60Hz or 59.94Hz). This difference (between project/timeline framerates, and deck operating frequencies) is enough to ensure that IEEE1394/Firewire/OHCI capture is not possible in these modes in Final Cut Pro, Avid (any version) or any other NLE I have found.
We realise that the framerate and frequency we're working in has to be 50-based, and we're not making any mistakes in that respect.
So far Edius is the only NLE on the market, that I have been able to find, that supports Firewire capture from 60Hz DVCPro HD material in a 50Hz based framerate.
When you have captured the file in that project select a clip in the bin press alt+enter go to video info and tell me what the framerate is .
In a 50p over 60p project, when I capture footage shot 25p over 60 with the 'Constant Rate' capture profile I get a clip in the bin that is 50fps, but that plays at doubletime - which is what I'd expect.
I can change the framerate in the properties to 50fps, and it plays at the correct rate, but I'm not happy with the way to refactors the timing in that mode. It seems to create interpolated frames to fill the gaps, which provide an unusual appearance that I don't really like.
At present if I capture into 25p over 60p project, then import the resulting 25p footage into Avid, Avid doubles up the frames to produce 50fps material.
Some clarification here. The Varicam does indeed record at a constant 60fps. If the frame rate is set to 25fps for example it simply flags the active frames. This flag is carried in the vertical interval data. The reason for this system, is as suggested, it is very difficult to vary the speed of tape in a helical scan recording system. With the advent of solid state recording that Panasonic introduced in the AG-HVX200 it is now possible of course to only record the active (native) frames and this would be called 25pn for example.
Originally with the Varicam you used to use a device called a Frame Rate Converter. This box contained a hard drive with HD-SDI I/O. It would recognize the active "flagged" frames in the incoming signal and buffer them through the hard drive and then play them out at the correct frame rate.
More recently NLE's such as Avid, FCP and Edius have incorporated this flagged frame recognition and perform the extraction automatically. Thus when I tested a 25fps Varicam ingest on a 25 Frame timeline I am getting realtime playback. If I had recorded at 50fps and I placed that on a 25 frame timeline I would have very smooth half speed. Also the newer DVCPRO HD decks such as the AJ-HD1700 and AJ-HD1400 have the ability to decode "on-speed" frame rates such as 30fps, 25fps and 24fps.
The issue that Dylan is facing is that the NLE's will not accept a firewire input at 60Hz, they only accept it at 59.94, this is a .001 frequency difference and should be negligible. The other alternative is to ingest via HD-SDI via a Black Magic or AJA Kona card etc. These boards also support the variable frame rate function.
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Rick Haywood
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Panasonic New Zealand Ltd.
Further to what Rick is saying... The issues with most NLEs for PAL users is the disparity between the 59.94/60Hz operating frequency of the deck and the 50Hz based framerates the applications are working with in PAL framerates.
As for the constant 60fps - it is indeed recording 60 images per second to a tape, but as I said before, only a certain number are unique - only the flagged frames. In 25fps, the camera samples the sensor 25 times a second and records that frame to tape. Essentially you get frame 1 recorded for 2 frames, frame 2 recorded for the next three frames, frame 3 recorded for 2 frames, etc... The first frame with each unique image is 'flagged'. To rebuild the recorded framerate, only the flagged images are captured.
The big bonus of Edius for me here is that it can capture the PAL framerates from the 59.94Hz deck over Firewire directly. Something that Avid and FCP are unable to do.

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