"Uncompressed 10-bit" vs. "None" Compression settings

Hello,
I work at a FX/finishing/color grading facility that provides the final masters for commercials seen on television.
I am trying to gain some insight on the difference between some compression settings, so that I can educate a client on the proper file to provide us.
We have been provided Quicktime files with an "Uncompressed 10-bit NTSC" tag attached to it, though they always come with an FCP wrapper that requires a special codec for us to access the files. They are usually relatively smaller files, which also has us suspecting that they are actually compressed.
We would prefer files with a universal Quicktime codec, such as exporting it with "None" as done in the Quicktime conversion in FCP. Problem being, these files get so huge and unmanageable even when derived from low-end acquisition formats.
A 5 second clip exported with "Uncompressed 10 bit" comes to are 115megs, while "None" is at 457 megs.
Can someone explain to me the differences between these codecs and what causes the vast difference in file sizes?

La diferencia en clara, tú tienes un file uncompressed y otro sin none compresion, paresen igula pero no es así, ambos te dicen sin compresion, pero el none comprsesion es puro, es el file en crudo por esa razon pesa mucho mas, tú tiens que ver que deseas porque ambos se ven bien el resultado en ambos en optimo, ecepto cuando los tienes en FCP y los exportas como DV, ahí se ven la diferencia pues la compresion a DV siempre baja un poco la calidad del producto final.
El file "none" pesa más del doble que el "uncompressed-8bits"
mi recomendacion es depende de lo qué quieres y que capacidad de tu HD estas dispusto a ocupar y par qué trabajo usarlo? será el formato que escojas pero ambos son muy buenos..
pd:puedes contestar en ingles si deseas.. thanks

Similar Messages

Is Exporting "None" Compression better than "Uncompressed 10 bit 4:2:2"?

i am trying to finish my first HD project on FCP. it's a stop-motion film which uses sequences of large jpgs (image size3504 x 2336). I have used the scaling feature in FCP to scale the image to fit into a 1920 x 1080 framing.
when my sequence settings are "Uncompressed 10 bit 4:2:2", and i export a quicktime with "Uncompressed 10 bit 4:2:2" compression, i get slight blockiness around some of my edges (near pinks, reds, oranges) that do not appear in the original jpegs. I thought "Uncompressed 10 bit 4:2:2 meant i was going to get the best image possible, thats what a professional post facility told me to use.
In experimenting, When i Choose "None" Compression for my sequence settings, and i exported the quicktime as "None" Compression, the image is much better and does not have the above blockiness.
Does this make sense?
Is there an aliasing problem with Uncompressed 10 bit 4:2:2?
Why does it say "Quality:Medium" when exporting Uncompressed 10 bit 4:2:2 but not give me the option to change that?
If i have to supply a master quicktime for an HD screening, can it be in "None" compression?
answers to any of these questions would be much appreciated.
thanks again,
aj

I'm sure someone who has more experience with codecs will be along soon, but I'll take a crack at it for now.
Using the None option, you're outputting 4:4:4 video, which means there's no color downsampling. When using Uncompressed 4:2:2 the codec is only capable of producing half the color samples of 4:4:4.
Depending on what your source files were originally sampled it, this could explain why you're seeing the degredation. Only very high end videos cameras capture 4:4:4, however. I'm assuming you used a still camera, and I really couldn't tell you what the color sampling is likely to be.
But in most regards, Uncompressed 10-bit 4:2:2 should be extremely high quality. There's an excellent site for comparing codecs here:
http://codecs.onerivermedia.com/ which does report some slight anti-aliasing issues.
Hopefully someone else can offer a solution.
Mac Pro 2.66Ghz - 3GBs RAM - X1900XT Mac OS X (10.4.8)

File Import Error / distorted image CS3 3.2.0 - Blackmagic Uncompressed 10-bit YUV NTSC 4:3

Hi All-
I have been capturing some old VHS tapes using Blackmagic Media Express via a Decklink HD Extreme 2 card (composite in, RCA audio in) and then subsequently editing the files in Premiere Pro CS3 ver. 3.2.0. But I'm running into a strange problem with the image being very distorted upon import into Premiere.
The capture settings in Blackmagic Media Express are as follows: NTSC, Uncompressed 10-bit YUV, 29.97, drop frame. After capture and before editing in Premiere, I watch the capture file in Windows media player and it looks and sounds fine.
When I create a new Premiere project to edit the clip, I use the following preset: Blackmagic Design, NTSC, 10-bit YUV, 4 x 3.
When I import the .avi file created during the media express capture into the new Premiere project, the image becomes extremely distorted. However, if I choose any other preset in Premiere, the image looks OK, which seems strange because the other presets do not match the import file settings. I should note that when I render the distorted looking file out using the Premiere media encoder, the file looks OK.
Any suggestions? I cannot figure out why the video is not importing or showing correctly in Premiere. Help!
Thanks a bunch,
Rex

Has this process EVER produced non-distorted video when imported into Premiere?
If this is a NEW problem, then what has changed since the process last worked properly?
If this is a FIRST TIME process and problem, my guess is a video driver that is not 100% compatible with what you are doing... you provide no other information, so it could be you need a newer (or, sometimes, older) video driver
Windows updates have been known to cause problems
Work through all of the steps (ideas) listed at http://ppro.wikia.com/wiki/Troubleshooting
If your problem isn't fixed after you follow all of the steps, report back with ALL OF THE DETAILS asked for in the FINALLY section, the questions at the end of the troubleshooting link... most especially the codec used... see Question 1

Uncompressed 8-bit Field Order?

Hello!
In FCP, I'm working with an Uncompressed 8-bit sequence with the field dominance set to "None." After having done a bit of research, I realize that choosing "none" was fruitless since Uncompressed 8-bit is an interlaced format (right?). Anyway, when I export my sequence to a QT file for compression, Compressor sets field dominance to "Upper First." Does that sound right? First of all I've got my sequence set to "none" for field dominance. But if I'm right that Uncompressed 8-bit can't really be set to "none," shouldn't Compressor at least recognize it as "Lower" aka "Bottom First?"
I've read several posts about this but nothing to do with Uncompressed 8-bit specifically, so sorry if this seems like a repeat post.
Thanks for any help!
Cameron

I was looking for some posts concerning interlaced source material and came across this thread. I have to say I don't think it's accurate to say that almost everything other than DV is upper (odd) field dominant. For example, the uncompressed codec AJA uses is lower field first, as well as the Avid codec.
The most important thing is to tell your encoding software what field dominance the SOURCE material is. It can then interpolate and output correctly.
Also, don't judge anything interlacing-related on a computer monitor - look at it on a tv monitor. You won't notice some interlacing problems until you see them output NTSC.
I have had MAJOR problems when importing interlaced source material into Compressor. Number one, it almost always guesses the wrong filed order on import. Number two, at least when bringing in D1 resolution material from Final Cut and cropping in Compressor, the resulting files flicker when played on tv. I actually haven't used compressor - but a great alternative called BitVice by Innobits. It handles interlacing with ease - like it should.
I bring this up because I have never heard anything official from Apple that addresses problems with interlaced source material, and after thinking for a long time that I was missing something, I now realize it's not me - it's them. Try BitVice. It lacks the user interface of Compressor but it's a great (and dependable) encoder.
If anyone can point out posts that address these issues that I've missed, please let me know!
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Exported dvpal 720by576 file to uncompressed 10 bit

help help help please
i have a client that i edited a 26minute film for,i captured the footage as dv pal 720by576 edited as the same and exported as a quicktime ,current settings .
now the client needs the file sent to the states and has asked for it to be uncompressed ,
can i import the dv pal file and then export that as a uncompressed 10 bit file ,which i have done and there is a noticable difference in quality on my computer monitor.10 bit looks great but the playback is prone to stop&pause
is that because of memory or is there a problem in the process of exporting a dvpal to uncompressed file.
as they want to broadcast this ,which should i do send the dv pal file or the uncompressed 10bit.
any help is appreciated.
cheers
simon

I wouldn't have thought the camera footage would look any different. If you have stills, text or other graphics they will certainly look cleaner if you put them onto an uncompressed timeline. If this is the case then there may be a case for sending an uncompressed file.
As stated by lots of people in lots of posts, the computer monitor is only an approximation of the final output. For a start it is non-interlaced. For critical assessment of image quality you need to be looking at a good quality PAL (in your case) monitor. If you don't have an analogue capture card you aren't going to be able to do a valid comparison between your DV timeline and your Uncompressed timeline. The only way you are going to be able to get an output to your monitor without an analogue capture card is through your firewire, which will take you back to DV anyway.

Best workflow for Uncompressed 8-bit 4:2:2?

I need to submit Uncompressed 10-bit or 8-bit video to a stock agency. I shoot HDV 1080i.
*Current workflow:*
When I import my clips, I use the HDV Apple intermediate codec 1080i50, as it is the only HDV codec that I see in te list of "easy setup" that suits my camera. But I can see that it produces a framesize of 1440 x 1080. Afterwards I export to quicktime, using the Uncompressed 8-bit 4:2:2 setting in Quicktime, sizing my video to 1920 x 1080 as requested by the stock agency.
Is this the correct workflow? I feel as if I'm blowing up/interpolating my original material which can not result in the optimum quality... Or am I wrong about this? Your tips on the right importing settings or workflow are highly appreciated!
+(I posted in the Quicktime forum that I can't export to Uncompressed 10-bit 4:2:2 without FCE crashing - but this is a different issue.)+

Hi(Bonjour)!
Sony FX1000 shoot in HDV and miniDV. You already know that HDV is a compressed format.
3CMOS and a quality lens will make a huge difference in term of quality but, the material will be compressed to HDV. May be you can think about renting a professionnal model. As Tom said, FCP is the way to go if you want better control over the compression shem and worklow toward professionnal output.
If you think about any color correction, HDV is not a good choice. FCP allows to capture and edit in ProRes422, thus the color corection and compisiting give better results. ProRes is only available with Final Cut Studio 2 package.
Think to upgrade your RAM, and buy an dedicated hard drive for video storage if you go this way. You did mention how you will distribute the material to tha agence, but uncompressed material can represent an issue on DVD data storage.
Michel Boissonneault

Timeline Options with NTSC DV & Uncompresses 8-bit (and others too)

Can someone explain the difference in picture I will see if I have DV and edit it on a NTSC-DV timeline vs. editing DV on an Uncompressed 8-bit timeline? Will it make a big difference after its all said and done and compressed in compressor ready to be put to DVD? What is the deal with all the diff settings within each timeline. Also, If i have edited DV in a NTSC-DV timeline...can I just copy and paste it to another timeline which I have set to a diff setting (i.e. uncompressed 8-bit or DV50 etc.....)?
Hope my question made sense

If you shot DV, what you get is a 720x4380 4:1:1 image. Up rezing or up converting to a larger colorspace will not change that basic fact.
The only time going to a larger colorspace makes sense is if you are doing a great deal of titling/text or special effects. In that case, it may do you some good for composting the effects. It still will not make the basic footage look any better.
If I miss understood, please let me know.
x

EXPORTING- DV NTSC vs Uncompressed 8-bit

I've been routinely exporting final sequences using the DV NTSC setting (same as my sequence setting). However, I noticed some graphics were coming up flat.
After asking around, someone suggested outputting to Uncompressed 8-Bit and it totally worked.
This leaves me utterly confused though:
- Should I always output to Uncompressed 8-bit ?
- Should I change my sequence and capture settings to Uncompressed 8-Bit?
- Is everything I've done prior not as high a resolution as it could be?
Help- Please!

It depends on how you are exporting to uncompressed.
If you are exporting straight from a DV sequence in FCP, it will most likely use your existing rendered material to create the frames in the uncompressed file. These renders will have had DV compression applied, and possibly compounded if you have filters, motion tab changes, etc.
However, if you export using Compressor (from your sequence in fCP), it will use an uncompressed image buffer for any rendered material, which can avoid compounding the DV compression. This ccan also be a good way to get better results out oof still or clips that have motion applied - By nesting the animated clips into an uncompressed sequence, I can sometimes get better results than by animating the clip right in the DV sequence.
To capture Uncompressed, you'll most likely need a capture card or box such as an AJA Io, Kona, etc. I don't believe that the mac can transcode FW DV to uncompressed on the fly during capture. I use my Io to capture DV material as uncompressed, but there is a digital-analog-digital conversion that happens, as well as a significant shift in color and luma (blacks get pretty crushed).
You also need spacious and fast enough storage to work exclusively with Uncompressed. Uncompressed 8-bit takes up about 90GB per hour, compared to about 13GB per hour of DV.
DV is a compressed format, and a bit lossy, but since DV is generally captured and output digitally, there is no generation loss as such. The only time there is additional loss is when DV material in re-compressed, such as when material is re-rendered. This is the only case in which working in an Uncompressed sequence can offer better results. If you plan to work exclusively in Uncompressed, then caapturing or converting your media will be necessary to make your clips native to your sequence settings and avoid all that rendering.
Keep in mind also that if you are exporting mpeg for DVD with compressor, there should be no difference in exporting a DV sequence directly, or exporting an uncompressed sequence with DV clips in it.
Hope this helps -
Max Average

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Vimeo makes it really easy by posting it here:
https://vimeo.com/help/faq/uploading-to-vimeo/compression-tutorials#compressor-4 11
Step by step - very easy.
Google offers this:
https://support.google.com/youtube/answer/1722171?hl=en
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Converting avi. files to 720 x 486 uncompressed 8 bit 4:2:2

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"What am I doing wrong?"
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Apple intermediate codec VS apple fcp uncompressed 8 bit 4:2:2

i'm still very new here.
have FCE and therefore don't have apple pro res.
i'm getting mixed suggestions as to what format to use for highest quality.
i get better results playing back apple intermediate codec in FCE but want to know if its quality is as good as apple fcp uncompressed 8 bit?
ultimately want to output as quicktime H.264
thanks

"but don't i Want HD? i'm shooting with the canon 5D M2."
Yes, you do. But how would I know that you're shooting in HD or that you're using this camera? The Apple uncompressed 8-bit 4:2:2 codec is only used with standard definition media.
BTW, FCE is not the best application to work with this camera as it shoots in a non-standard video frame rate. Your media would have to be converted to QuickTime using AIC at 29.97 with uncompressed 48k audio. FCP allows you to create a sequence preset in 30fps, the frame rate used by this model.

Uncompressed 10-bit 4:2:2 with Audio in FCP

Hi,
I've imported an Uncompressed 10-bit 4:2:2 HD (1920x1080) video (it's a capture of an HD transfer from 35mm film) into FCP 6 and now I'm trying to sync up my audio mix. I've got it synced with the pop at 2 and I've confirmed that the mix is synchronous with the print. But when I try playing it back (albeit very slowly) the audio is out of sync about 8-24 frames depending on what point of the film I play it at. Why is this?
Also, I should mention that I asked FCP to just convert my sequence to the settings embedded in the video file. The Sample and Bit rate also match up for the audio between the mix and FCP. Any ideas?
P.S. I should also mention that if I place the timeline at a certain point in the movie it will show me a particular frame. But if I decide to make a cut at that point all of a sudden the viewer will show me a different frame about a second or two earlier in the movie. Seems like it would be a frame rate issue, but I've got 23.98 video playing on a 23.98 timeline. Quicktime seems to think the video is 23.68 fps, which is weird. I don't know what to do with all of this, but hopefully someone does?

Most likely. It is not a consumer format.
x

Trouble exporting with QuickTime 7 to UNCOMPRESSED 10-bit 4:2:2

I have succeeded with shorter videos, but my 90 minute video returns "error -2125".
Somehow I managed to do this before, I'm not sure what has changed on my system. Does anyone else have trouble exporting to Uncompressed 10-bit 4:2:2 ? I'm now exporting to ProRes instead, but would prefer uncompressed video for the sake of quality.

You don't say what's the source of your clips.
If standard DV (..though I doubt that an agency would accept standard def video any more..) NTSC DV is compressed in the camera as 4:1:1, and PAL DV is compressed as 4:2:0 ..so you won't get true 4:2:2 from normal DV, unless you're using a broadcast camera (..probably feeding into the capture device via SDI inputs).
If the source was tape-based HDV or any other hi-def source, then iMovie converts that, during import, into Apple Intermediate Codec, and wouldn't be able to output proper Uncompressed 4:2:2 material.
For Uncompressed 4:2:2, I think you'll need to be using a dedicated capture card - and massive-capacity hard discs! - to be able to import the material in the first place.
iMovie certainly isn't the program to handle pro video of this nature.
Ask in the Final Cut Pro Discussions..
"..I've also tried doing this on my Macbook with Intel processor.." ..but maybe that's just not fast enough (older Mac portables have "shared graphics memory" ..meaning their graphics processor may have to compete with the main processor to temporarily grab free RAM)!

I cannot export to "Uncompressed 10-bit 4:2:2" format. Help!

I need to deliver clips to a stock agency but I cannot export the footage from iMovie with the uncompressed format I need. Not in iMovieHD, nor in iMovie8, nor in FCE. I tried it with a 10 second clip, so it can not be the length or files getting too big!
So what happens?
Exporting to Uncompressed 10-bit 4:2:2
If I try this setting, on all occasions iMovie simply crashes and I get the "iMovie quit unexpectedly" window. The same thing happens in FCE.
Exporting to Uncompressed 8-bit 4:2:2
When I export using this seting, iMovie SEEMS to export the file as it should. But when I open the file in Quicktime, the timebar indicates the full 10 seconds, but the video & audio freezes after about 1 or 2 seconds, the clip keeps playing and I hear & see the last second of the clip again. The same thing happens with files exported with this setting in iMovieHD, iMovie8 and FCE.
I've read on the forum that I should not worry about the quicktime movie not playing right, because the file can be imported into Final Cut without any problems. So I try not to worry about this and hope the stock agency can work with the files... But that still does not explain why I cannot export to 10-bit 4:2:2 without my video programs crashing!
And yes, I've also tried doing this on my Macbook with Intel processor. With the same result.
Can somebody please help me with any suggestions? Thanks!!
Daniëlla

You don't say what's the source of your clips.
If standard DV (..though I doubt that an agency would accept standard def video any more..) NTSC DV is compressed in the camera as 4:1:1, and PAL DV is compressed as 4:2:0 ..so you won't get true 4:2:2 from normal DV, unless you're using a broadcast camera (..probably feeding into the capture device via SDI inputs).
If the source was tape-based HDV or any other hi-def source, then iMovie converts that, during import, into Apple Intermediate Codec, and wouldn't be able to output proper Uncompressed 4:2:2 material.
For Uncompressed 4:2:2, I think you'll need to be using a dedicated capture card - and massive-capacity hard discs! - to be able to import the material in the first place.
iMovie certainly isn't the program to handle pro video of this nature.
Ask in the Final Cut Pro Discussions..
"..I've also tried doing this on my Macbook with Intel processor.." ..but maybe that's just not fast enough (older Mac portables have "shared graphics memory" ..meaning their graphics processor may have to compete with the main processor to temporarily grab free RAM)!

"Uncompressed 10-bit" vs. "None" Compression settings

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