Upgrade Emac - Panther to Tiger

Hi there,
I know i´m a bit late, but is it possible to upgrade my Emac 1,25Ghz, 1GigRam, SD, ATI Radeon 9200, to Tiger 10.4.x?
better late than never, hm?
regards
FSD

Florian,
The requirements for tiger are:
PowerPC G3, G4, or G5 processor
Built-in FireWire
At least 256MB of physical RAM
A built-in display or a display connected to an Apple-supplied video card supported by your computer
At least 3.0 GB of available space on your hard drive; 4GB of disk space if you install XCode 2 developer tools
DVD drive for installation (although a cd version is available at extra cost).
SO YES... tiger will run fine on your emac - you might even find it runs a bit smoother & faster! Get it purchased - you'll wonder how you ever managed without widgets and spotlight!!!

Similar Messages

  • Why upgrade from Panther to Tiger on G4 iMac?

    I have two iMacs. I use a G5 recently upgraded from Panther to Leopard 10.5.5. My wife has a G4 with Panther 10.3.9.
    Now that I have Leopard I have a Tiger install license available.
    Are there good reasons to upgrade my wife's G4 to Tiger?
    She uses it heavily for e-mail, internet, and MS Word.
    She's networked to my G5 through Airport and we use printer sharing and file sharing.
    Her G4 works great, but I'm wondering about security issues.
    Comments?
    -Bob

    Correct me if I'm wrong but I think Apple is still releasing Security updates for Panther too, isn't it?
    I think some of the Panther software is starting to show its age limitations for Internet capabilities, and things like iTunes for all the new iPods, etc. On one hand if you're not actually having problems then my feeling is an old computer best runs software designed for it. On the other hand I am not sure you would lose any functionality if you did upgrade. I think most Panther applications run on Tiger, the system requirements are pretty similar. It's not like when you upgrade to Leopard that you suddenly lose Classic support and it requires (demands?) a faster processor. From my personal perspective upgrading to Leopard really makes a big difference in capabilities both ways and may even be a negative upgrade if you run old software the way I do. Upgrading from Panther to Tiger didn't have any downsides and had several upsides in terms of software is still being brought out for Tiger.
    [Mac OS X 10.4 Tiger system requirements|http://docs.info.apple.com/article.html?artnum=301341]
    [OS 10.3 Panther requirements|http://docs.info.apple.com/article.html?artnum=106163]

  • Upgrading from Panther to Tiger. Is it worth it?

    Hi there. I have been debating this in my head for quite some time. It is worth upgrading from Panther to Tiger? What are the benefits?
    Thanks,
    dave

    Hi dave!
    If you do decide to upgrade, Tiger is available for purchase at The Apple Store (US).
    Jaguar and Panther, are no longer available directly from the Apple Online Store, as Tiger 10.4.x is the most up to date OS.
    A Full Retail Version of the Tiger Install DVD, can be purchased rather inexpensively, at some online Apple retailers, Amazon, eBay, AppleRescue, (as cornelius mentioned) etc.
    Be sure not to purchase grey, upgrade or machine specific CDs or DVDs.
    Additional info in these links.
    Using OS X Install CDs/DVDs On Multiple Macs
    What's A Computer Specific Mac OS X Release
    Software Update, Upgrade: What's The Difference?
    Once Tiger 10.4.x is installed, you can use the PPC 10.4.8 Combo Update, to upgrade to the most up-to-date version.
    Tiger System Requirements
    Mac Model Compatibility & Requirements For OS X
    Additionally,
    "Tiger ships on a DVD, but if your Mac doesn’t have a built-in DVD-ROM player, you’ll need CD media. When you buy Mac OS X Tiger, you qualify to purchase Tiger CDs for only $9.95."
    Download The Order Form Here. Media Exchange Program
    Shop Carefully, Examine All Documentation, And Good Luck!
    ali b

  • Having problems upgrading from Panther to Tiger

    Hi there!
    I'm new to this place, but very desperate to find answers. I have been trying to upgrade from panther to tiger for the past week and have gotten a mess. I have to restore my old panther system after a panic kernal while trying to install tiger. I have tried to upgrade, install and archive and erase and install tiger and the same keeps happening: after 30-30% installation of essentials, I get a "try installing again" message and immediately goes to a blank blue screen. I have to reboot from my eDisk on the external hd and re-install my old system. I've done EVERYTHING I can find on the web and in the install suggestions. Everything has been updated (firmware, sofware, etc.), I tired disconnecting external devices except the keyboard and the external dvd I need to install and still the same thing...over and over and over!
    So, now I'm down to the fact that I need to install CDs (internal) instead of DVD off the external drive. However, when I went and downloaded the form for the exchange the Tiger versions listed (MA453Z/A, MA454Z/A) do not coincide with the version I purchased (M96397/A). So I'm trying to figure out what this version is that I purchased and if it has anything to do with my big install mess!
    So, any ideas out there? Glad to hear your input!

    Call 1-800-MY-APPLE WRT media exchange program and the DVD version you have.

  • Be carefull when upgrading from Panther to Tiger

    If you choose to upgrade from Panther to Tiger by using the Erase and install option on the Tiger DVD install disk, your XServe RAID won't mount. The problem seems to be that the driver for the RAID won't be updated in the process.
    The solution for me was (by advice of Apple Support) to reinstall Panther. My RAID came up fine and I then did a upgrade to Tiger using the update and install.

    Mattur:When I restart to install the OS, it goes into a Kernel Panic and tells me to restart.I take it to mean that you mean you put the install disk and open it and at the prompt you restart, and it goes into the kernel panic. I notice too that you sayI can reinstall Panther with the disk the computer came with , but I can't install Tiger..In other words there is a problem is with the Tiger disk.
    Are you using a Full Retail Version of Tiger? Computer specific versions or update versions will not work.
    If you are planning to install Tiger check out System Requirements to be sure your computer complies.
    Good luck.
    cornelius

  • Upgrade from panther to tiger

    hi,
    i have MacOS 10.3.9 installed on my dual 2GHz, Power PC G5 [512 MB DDR SDRAM].
    The operating will not upgrade automatically from web.
    i would like to upgrade to panther.
    do i need a software disc to do this?
    if so does it matter which version of panther i upgrade to?
    do i have to upgrade to 10.4.1 first?
    thanks!!!

    You need to buy a retail Tiger disc. They are either 10.4.0 or 10.4.6, but either will work. Software update can then bring it up to 10.4.10 in one step.

  • G5 killed by mail when upgrading from Panther to Tiger...HELP!

    Hello,
    I just upgraded one of our G5s from Panther to Tiger. When I opened mail, it began "importing" all the messages (I assume because of the update to mail.app). Now, the user who's computer I upgraded contained 9GB of mail (!!!) but the G5 had more than enough space for this. When the "importing" completes, mail.app is open and all folders/subfolders, etc. are there, but the program doesn't contain any of the messages from the import. Every folder/subfolder is empty, the inbox is empty, etc. AND, to top it off, the HD of the G5 now has zero free space (while, when before the import, it had at least 40GB of free space). Does anyone know a fix for this? Has this happened before?
    Regards,
    Kristin.

    OPEN LETTER TO THE MAIL 2.0 CODING TEAM. RSVP.
    with thanks to DAVID GIMENO GOST, for answering so many people's posts about all the mail 2.0 bugs.
    hi guys,
    i love all things apple, and i have done for twenty years.
    but with respect, your build of mail 2.0 really could be a lot better.
    moving my mail from 1.0 on an ibook g3 running os X 10.3.9, over to mail 2.0 on an intel macbook 1.83 running os X 10.4.7 has been a nightmare.
    the discussion boards of many mac sites feature countless cases of people making the move from 1.0 to 2.0, with all their e-mails disappearing.
    having spent two weeks reading the knowledge forums, and learning about emailchemy, plus all the complications which, even with that third party program, still exist in moving one's mail over from version 1.0 over to 2.0, are both massive and horrendous.
    and that's for me, who has twenty years of finding my way around mac bugs.
    but this one is the most difficult i've ever seen, as well as being one of the most widespread problems in a FULL VERSION RELEASE of an apple program, which apple has done nothing to resolve during the six months in which this problem has been widespread in the mac community worldwide.
    so thank god for DAVID GIMENO GOST !
    i'm amazed that apple still hasn't come up with a patch for moving mail from 1.0 to 2.0.
    even now, while i've finally got all my mail back today, 95% is showing as unread, due to the last obstacles in the process, which i can no longer face solving.
    i've also lost hundreds of red mail flags during the transfer :o(.
    PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE, guys:
    we shouldn't need to be buying third party software to move our e-mails from apple mail 1.0 up to apple mail 2.0, and even then be faced by massive hurdles to overcome, which take weeks for someone who at least has SOME idea of what he's doing.
    i pity all the people who read the numerous forum posts about how difficult it is to transfer their mail from 1.0 to 2.0, and simply give up on the spot, and have to start their e-mail history TODAY, unable to access their previous e-mail again - potentially now for ever.
    because the ironic joke is that we can't even have an access copy of mail 1.0 on our macs to read our old e-mails, unless we hack that program out of the 10.3 cd installation set, which the gurus on your own web site recommend us NOT to do !
    so what are we supposed to do, to access our old e-mail, which we can't open, even though YES, it is in our mail folder, and YES, we did full rebuilds of every mail folder, and YES, we trashed our mail preferences first.
    e-mail is now at the very center of the average mac user's digital life.
    a user's most important program should not require countless hours scrolling through the astonishing number of problems within mail 2.0, which the apple.com discussion boards evidence, with new problems being added every day.
    please sort this out, and build a patch, for the sanity of the many people who love apple, but who are unable to access any of their old e-mails.
    because i wouldn't wish the last fortnight on anyone else.
    RSVP, APPLE.
    with best wishes to everyone on the infinity loop,
    michael thorne
    london, england
    [email protected]
    ps: if you're a mac user who has been affected by the mail 2.0 disappearing bug, please post a reply to this message, and send me an e-mail to: [email protected], so that we can draw apple's increasing attention to it. thanks.
    MacBook1. 1.83 GHz. 512 MB.   Mac OS X (10.4.7)  

  • Upgraded from panther to tiger, now have several problems...help??

    Hey guys(and girls)
    i recently upgraded my iBook G4 from panther to tiger and am having some problems...first off Airport only get 2 bars...if im lucky. my room is about a good 15 feet from the router, and we are using 802.11G. i put it right next to the router and same. 2 bars. also my other problem is that my iBook tries to open .BIN files in quick time and an error pops up because quick time doesnt support .BIN. any help would be appreciated

    Hello Leesa2
    If it is Connected then please try to register your device to Wireless provider .
    KB00510 How to register a BlackBerry smartphone with the wireless network
    Wait till a Registration messages comes in your message box.
    After that  perform a battery pull restart like this while the device is powered On remove your battery wait for a min. then reinsert it back.
    From your BlackBerry Browser Go towww.blackberry.com/integrate  then try adding your email  account.Please try it and let us know.
    Prince
    Click " Like " if you want to Thank someone.
    If Problem Resolves mark the post(s) as " Solution ", so that other can make use of it.
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  • Upgrading from panther to tiger problems

    Hi i recently purchased Tiger discs from ebay to upgrade my panther system. As most applications now need 10.4 or about (including the new ipods which i have just found out after buying one). Now I have a g4 1.67 ghz powerbook and when i boot it with the install disc in it i get a kernel panic about how the disc has been formatted only for macbook and cannot be used on a power book. I wish i knew this before i bought the discs.. i plan on upgrading to leopard soon anyway but for now, is there anyway around my problem with the macbook install discs and trying to install them on an older power book?
    cheers

    No. They will not work ever. MacBooks have a totally different architecture. You bought what is called a machine specific disk; meant to install on only the model it shipped with. It came with a MacBook and will only install on that exact model.
    See if you can send it back. E-Bay has alot of machine specific disks for sale. That is why most of us here don't recomend buying OS software on E-Bay.
    The Retail disk is black in color. PriceGrabber.com lists one for sale for at Amazon.com.
    Cheers! DALE

  • IBook G3, thinking about upgrading from panther to tiger?

    Hello all
    This is my first apple computer that I've owned, it's my mom's hand me down after she got herself a spanking new macbook pro but it actually runs decently fine, iBook G3 500Mhz, 40gb HD, 640mb memory
    It currently runs a clean copy of panther 10.3.9, but with some effort, I think I could get my hands on tiger as well. However, before I do, would it be worth it to try to upgrade it on this laptop? I think panther runs fine, but I hear for each successive mac osx, it's been running faster, so in that case, I'd try to get it, but if I happen to find that it's about the same or worse, then maybe not worth the effort. I definitely like to be up to date with my software and such, so it would be nice if people with ibook G3's with specs similar to mine could tell me their experience going from panther to tiger.
    Thanks in advance

    Welcome To  Discussions daonesteven!
    Here are images of the Full Retail Version, of the Tiger Install DVD, referred to by cornelius, that must be used.
    If you know what to look for, those install discs, can be purchased rather inexpensively, at some online Apple retailers, Amazon, eBay, FastMac, etc.
    The discs should look exactly like the images in the above links, and not say Upgrade, CPU Drop-in DVD, or "This software is part of a hardware bundle purchase - not to be sold seperately." on them.
    As the Tiger Media Exchange Program is no longer being offered, if the iBook doesn’t have a built-in DVD-ROM player, you will have to use an alternative method of installation.
    Info here Installing Tiger without a DVD drive.
    Once Tiger 10.4.x is installed, you can use the PPC 10.4.10 Combo Update, to upgrade to the current version.
    And additional RAM may speed the iBook up.
    Shop Carefully, Examine All Documentation, And I Wish You Success!
    ali b

  • Emac G4 runs slowly after upgrading from panther to tiger

    I have an Emac G4 with a 1.26 GHz HD and 512 MB RAM. I just bought and installed a full install (3 discs) for Tiger. Then I added the upgrade to 10.4.11. I had been running 10.3.9. Now the memory is close to maxed out and the computer runs slowly. And it occasionally freezes up on a program so I have to force quit. Is it running slowly because of the almost-full memory? Is Tiger that much bigger than Panther? I already trashed the Internet Explorer and Netscape programs to free up some memory but what else can I trash? I went into prefs to get rid or all IE and Nestscape stuff and I don't think I trashed anything else (that would cause it to run slowly or freeze up). I redid the permissions but I don't think it helped. Anything else I should be doing? Upgrading firmware? etc.?

    If you can Backup, be sure to do it of course!
    Depending what you use it for of course...
    On HD space 13GB, that's getting down to the point where it's slowing things a tat bit.
    On Memory, I'd forget the 256MB, my eMac 1.42, (uses same Memory chips), has the "2GB PC3200 PowerMac G5 Memory Upgrade (2x1GB Matched Pair) DDR 400MHz CAS 3.0", here...
    http://eshop.macsales.com/Item_XLR8YourMac.cfm?ID=6077&Item=OWC3200DDR2GBP
    You can get 1GB here...
    "1GB PC2700 DDR 333MHz CAS 2.5 184 Pin DIMM"
    "512MB PC2700 DDR 333MHz CL2.5 184 Pin Module"
    by searching here for a bit of discount...
    http://eshop.macsales.com/Specials/XLR8YourMac.cfm
    If the budget is really really tight...
    http://eshop.macsales.com/item/Other%20World%20Computing/2700DDR256/
    I take it that you feel that Tiger IS that big...
    As an example, just the latest Keyboard update for Tiger is 35.3MB!!! ???
    The more RAM you get and the more HD Space you can free up, the Happier you'll be!

  • Upgrading from panther to (tiger?)

    Hi
    im on os x 3,9.
    Im getting to the point where i need to move onto os x 10.4 with some software i want to use.
    What are my options ? :
    1. What should i move on to Tiger - Leapord - whats suitable for my emac 800mhz?
    Also am i limited to only upto a certain upgrade eg 10.4.3 or can i go upto 10.4.9 and onto leapard?
    2.. Should i buy and install tiger on an external hd partitioned volume ? If i cant why not , because isnt it the same as cloning an internal ? If i could, the logic is i could keep my panther on the internal and also access a tiger OS on the external. this is a good solution for me.
    3. I'm confused about all the different operating system install discs & pc compatability - am i right in thinking i need ANY PPC install dvd version - can i get these from anywhere ?
    thanks for helping me out on this confusing subject
    d

    Apple has yet to formally release the minimum specifications for Leopard, and anyone who really knows what are likely to be the final specs would be under a non-disclosure agreement, so no one can say for sure if your eMac will run Leopard or not (although there rumors about greater than 800 MHz CPU clock speed, so I wouldn't hold my breath waiting for Leopard with a 800 MHz model).
    Tiger is available in two ways: as a retail black-label DVD for PPC Macs meeting Tigers minimum specs (this includes all eMacs), or model-specific gray-label discs for late model PPC and Intel Macs. The model-specific discs cannot be used to install on any other models --- Apple is in the business of selling the OS, after all. Whatever version OS is on the retail Tiger DVD, you can use the OS X Update Combo 10.4.10 (PPC) to get up to the latest version of Tiger.
    If your external HD is formatted as Mac OS Extended, you can install Tiger onto a partition and switch between Tiger and Panther using Startup Manager. One cavet: Tiger makes changes to it's boot disc to support additional disc attributes; once you use a disc to boot Tiger, you cannot readily revert that disc back to an earlier OS without erasing and reformatting it. Also, any utilities, especially disk utilities like OnyX, that you use should be updated to Tiger-compatible versions (see e.g. Only use Mac OS X 10.4-compatible disk utilities with Mac OS X 10.4 volumes).
    The first boot after upgrading will likely involve a double start as a firmware update is pushed through as well, so don't be surprised to see the screen go blank after the first start. Also, the first start upder Tiger will take longer than usual, with subsequent starts being much faster.
    There ar ehandy tips for upgrading to Tiger at Gulliver - Tiger Upgrade Guide.

  • Upgrade from Panther to Tiger or Panther to Leopard

    I'm operating a Powerbook 15" with a 1.33 G4 and 256MB RAM. I believe the specs for Leopard call for 512MB RAM. The question I have is, am I better off going with Leopard and upgrading the RAM or should I just go with Tiger and upgrade the OS?
    A little background to help...I'm upgrading my OS more out of necessity (very quickly, everything is becoming incompatible with Panther -- like Flash, TurboTax, etc.). I don't want to upgrade to Tiger tomorrow and find myself in need of Leopard next week...if that makes sense.
    Thoughts?

    Upgrade the RAM regardless of which OS you install. Personally, I prefer Tiger because some of the apps I use regularly are still not yet compatible with Leopard and possibly never will be. I also had performance issues the first time installed Leopard, but after a couple of reinstalls I found the install process made a lot of difference to the performance of the install. My conclusion, Leopard is like that little girl who had a little curl right in the middle of her forehead. When she was good she was very good, but when Leopard is bad it is horrid.

  • 3 issues after upgrading from Panther to Tiger

    Hi, I finally installed Tiger on my Mac mini G4 and everything looked so fine... Until I find this issues:
    #1: iTunes shows up a message saying that it needs 10.4.9
    #2: QuickTime opens fine, but doesn't play video, only audio. Also some options of the menubar says something like "qtpSomething"
    #3: Even that FTP works fine by "Go > Connect to server... > ftp://ftp.something.here", I can't connect to my PC by "Go > Connect to server... > smb://my.lame.pc.ip"
    Actually, I think that installing the combo upgrade to 10.4.11 I could solve the #1 and #2, but #3 really worries me.
    This are my mini specs:
    • PowerPC G4 @ 1,42 Ghz
    • 1 GB RAM
    • 80 GB HDD
    • Mac OS X 10.4 (by now)
    I moved from 10.3.9 to 10.4 via Tiger retail DVD and Upgrade Install. Any ideas?

    Yeah... I've been through that once, a long time ago... My Panther stopped booting and I (in a moment "loco", apparently) reinstalled the Panther with the mini's disc with the Archive and Install option, messing out with my versions of iTunes, QuickTime, Macromedia Studio and Adobe CS. All solved just by reinstalling 10.3.9 and reinstalling Macromedia Studio (which has an annoying "invisible" that if is missing the hole studio won't work at all!).
    Respecting to the main subject of the thread (?), I've downloaded the app you told me and worked perfectly. It extracted the Mac Help file and now the Help Viewer works better. Also, after I downloaded the QuickTime for Tiger the player repaired and now the menu says what it has to say.
    I would say: "+Problema resuelto+". Gracias BD, you rock! =P

  • Upgrading from Panther to Tiger -- Need some hand holding

    Hello all,
    So I'm a newbie to upgrading operating systems on the Mac but need to upgrade to Tiger in order to install Final Cut Studio 5 so I can use my new HD camera. I will upgrade to Leopard when it comes out, but I need to be able to edit my videocamera's footage now.
    So...I've read so many horror stories I wanted to post about my system and some of my most used applications and see if anyone sees any potential problems, as far as compatibility OR not working once the upgrade is complete..
    I have a 1.8 Dual G5, 2 gigs RAM, running Panther 10.3.9
    I use these applications FREQUENTLY and want to make sure they still work after doing a simple upgrade:
    Adobe Creative Suite (not 2, but the one before that)
    Dreamweaver 8
    Final Cut HD 4.5 (will I be able to open old projects with the new FCP 5, otherwise I won't need this afterwards)
    DVD Studio Pro 3 (will I be able to open old projects with the new DVD Studio Pro 4 otherwise I won't need this afterwards)
    iLife '06 (this won't be overwritten, correct?)
    iWork
    Quickbooks (that came with my original system...will it stay too?)
    Microsoft Office X for Mac (using Entourage as my mail program)
    Virtual PC for Mac
    Classic OS 9 (I've read I should remove this before I upgrade? I never use it)
    I think that's the important stuff. Some people tell me they've upgraded with no problems but I guess I read these boards too much to be that confident.
    I've backed up my Docs, iTunes, iPhoto...anything else in my Library or something else you recommend I backup?
    Do I choose Archive and Install for a Simple Upgrade or will it just say "Simple Upgrade" and not prompt me further?
    Sorry if these are dumb questions...I'm just nervous I will have a big paperweight on my desk after this and I have mucho work to do right now!
    Thanks everyone!
    Mare

    Here are some suggestions:
    Important: Please read before installing
    1. If you have a third-party FireWire hard drive connected, disconnect it before installing this update. Reconnect it and turn it back on after installation is complete and you've restarted.
    2. You may experience unexpected results if you have installed third-party system software modifications, or if you have modified the operating system through other means. (This does not apply to normal application software installation.)
    3. The installation process should not be interrupted. If a power outage or other interruption occurs during installation, use the standalone installer (see below) from Apple Downloads to update.
    System Update Procedure
    A. Repair hard drive and permissions.
    Repairing the Hard Drive and Permissions
    Boot from your OS X Installer disc. After the installer loads select your language and click on the Continue button. When the menu bar appears select Disk Utility from the Installer menu (Utilities menu for Tiger.) After DU loads select your OS X volume from the list on the left, click on the First Aid tab, then click on the Repair Disk button. If DU reports any errors that have been fixed, then re-run Repair Disk until no errors are reported. If no errors are reported click on the Repair Permissions button. Wait until the operation completes, then quit DU and return to the installer. Now shutdown the computer for a couple of minutes and then restart normally.
    If DU reports errors it cannot fix, then you will need Disk Warrior (4.0 for Tiger) and/or TechTool Pro (4.5.2 for Tiger) to repair the drive. If you don't have either of them or if neither of them can fix the drive, then you will need to reformat the drive and reinstall OS X. Note that Disk Warrior will not work on Intel Macs.
    B. Clone your existing system to an external Firewire drive.
    How to Clone Using Restore Option of Disk Utility
    1. Open Disk Utility from the Utilities folder.
    2. Select the startup or source volume from the left side list.
    3. Click on the Restore tab in the DU main window.
    4. Drag the startup or source volume to the Source entry field.
    5. Select the backup or destination volume from the leftside list and drag it to the Destination entry field.
    6. Check the box to Erase Destination. Skip this step if you've already formatted the drive.
    7. Double-check you got it right, then click on the Restore button.
    C. Consult the Tiger Installation Checklist.
    You have three upgrade options. If you use the Upgrade installation option be sure you have repaired the hard drive and permissions first and made your backup. If you choose the Archive and Install option then you only need to repair the hard drive.
    Neither of the above options will erase the disk. Some of your software may not work with Tiger. You will need to upgrade those programs. It would be best to do the upgrades to your software before upgrading to Tiger.
    You don't have to remove your OS 9 installation for Classic. However, if you don't use it you can recover the disk space by deleting it from the drive. The OS 9 folders are located at the root directory of the hard drive and are:
    +System Folder+ (Note this is NOT the System folder.)
    +Applications (Mac OS 9)+
    Documentation
    Be sure Classic is not activated (System Preferences.) Simply open the System Folder and drag the System file into the Trash. Restart the computer. After the computer restarts empty the Trash then drag the three OS 9 folders to the Trash and empty.

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