Upgrade from EHP 7.01 to CE 7.1

We have portal EHP 7.01 and we are thinking of upgrading it to CE 7.1 to use Visual composer 7.1 features. We currently got ESS/MSS applications customised and running on EHP7.01 as central portal, also we got NWDI installed on our DEV system. Is upgrading to CE 7.1 is seamless or is it going to be too much hassle because we already have some ESS/MSS applications running on EHP7.01 and NWDI?
I think CE 7.1 uses J2EE server 7 version whereas EHP uses 6.4 version, is this mean there is no directly upgrade from EHP 7.01?
Please clarify from your experience is this something achievable and easy to migrate?
One important question I wanted to ask here is can we use CE 7.1 as a central portal in FPN model? or Should we stick to EHP 7.01 as central portal and use the CE 7.1 as producer portal?
Thanks
Praveen
Edited by: Praveen11 on Aug 25, 2009 1:04 PM

We found that CE 7.1 cannot be used as a central portal and should be installed seperately as lean portal for composite development.
I'm copy pasting some info from documents I gathered.
u201CUsing SAP NetWeaver CE is an application-driven decision u2013 for example because you would like to use new version of Visual Composer or Business Process Management features.
You would never really decide from a portal point of view to switch to CE 7.1, because for overall portal projects SAP NetWeaver 7.0 is the basis of choice.
This presentation aims to give you a short overview into how to integrate the applications from the CE side into your stable SAP NetWeaver 7.0 environment.
It will focus especially on the different integration technologies that are available to provide your CE applications within your central SAP NetWeaver 7.0 Portal.u201D
In short CE 7.1 has its own u201Cleanu201D portal for composite apps. CE could be installed in isolation and be a producer portal in an FPN without having any technical impact on the 7.0 Portal environment. It could be integrated with NWDI on the 7.0 Portal. There are other options also outlined in the articleu2026
Closing this thread.

Similar Messages

Impact on BI after ECC 6.0 Upgrade from Ehp 3 to Ehp 4

Hi All,
We are planning for an upgrade of our ECC 6.0 System from Ehp 3 to Ehp 4.
Could you please provide me inputs in what needs to considered in terms of BI system?
I know the following thing:
1) Delta Queues must be cleared before the upgrade starts but what needs to be considered for FI and CO Data Sources.
Any SAP Documentation available?
Thanks,
Neelesh

What version of BI is yours...3.5 or 7.0???
Unless the ehp4 is bringing some functional changes to FI or other functional datasources which needs to be replicated on to the BI side.
i think the below link might help.
Technical news brought with EHP3 and EHP4 compared to ECC6
Thanks
Deepak

Upgrade from ERP 5.0 to ERP 6.0 EHP 4 SP5 - phase START_SHDI_FIRST

operating system: iSeries V6R1
(this one is probably for Volker Güldenpfennig...a Happy New Year from Germany!)
SID: AP4
instance number normal: 00
instance number shadow: 08
hostname: ap400c
error in phase MAIN_SHADOW/START_SHDI_FIRST:
shadow instance does not start
effect: The subsystem R3_08 ist started immediately but no process at all appears in WRKACTJOB.
The upgrade program hangs for about 5 minutes and then shows the error message below.
SAP note 525677 is already known but does not help.
error message:
To analyse the errors during start of shadow instance,
       view files 'STARTSFI.LOG' and 'DEVTRACE.LOG'
       in directory '/usr/sap/AP4/upg/abap/log'
       Repeat phase until shadow instance is started
       and you can log on instance number '08'.
STARTSFI.LOG:
BUT: The file DEVTRACE does not exist at all !!!
From previous upgrades I knew that this phase brings quite some trouble so I already did this:
- giving special right *ALLOBJ to user AP408 and AP4ADM (with WRKUSRPRF)
- SAP note 1168235, page 9: file /usr/sap//upg/abap/SYS/global/ms_acl_info
    1.) deleted
    2.) qualified hostname (HOST=ap400c.apetito.de) used
    3.) (HOST=*) used
Before restarting the phase I always ended the subsystem as QSECOFR with ENDSBS SBS(R3_08) OPTION(*IMMED).
showipc 08 shows no entries.
THIS IS THE INTERESTING PART!!!
After some deeper investigation I found this:
In /usr/sap/AP4/upg/abap/bin/SHADOW.TPP there are these lines:
AP4/startsap    = /usr/sap/AP4/upg/abap/AP4/homeshd/ap4adm/startsap SID(AP4) INSTANCE(08) PROFILE
('/usr/sap/AP4/upg/abap/AP4/SYS/profile/START_DVEBMGS08_ap400c') DVEBMGS08
AP4/stopsap     = /usr/sap/AP4/upg/abap/AP4/homeshd/ap4adm/stopsap SID(AP4) INSTANCE(08) WAIT(*YES) WAITTIME(600) DVEBMGS08
but the directory .../homeshd/ap4adm does not exist all (sounds very UNIX-like to me).
I changed the SHADOW.TPP file and used "/usr/sap/AP4/upg/abap/exe/startsap" and "/usr/sap/AP4/upg/abap/exe/stopsap"
but this file seems to be created every time this phase starts.
So I copied the two programs "startsap" and "stopsap" from /usr/sap/AP4/upg/abap/exe to the manually created directory
/usr/sap/AP4/upg/abap/AP4/homeshd/ap4adm
Any ideas? (Maybe the R3INLPGM sucks...?)
Kind regards
Rüdiger Höckel
Edited by: Rüdiger Höckel on Jan 8, 2010 5:39 PM

Rudiger,
Hello from cold Minnesota, USA! We are also upgrading from ERP2004 to ERP 6.0 EHP 4 SP4 on IBM i V6R1 and had a similar START_SHDI_FIRST issue that may be relevant to your problem.
As in your post no shadow system jobs appeared in WRKACTJOB and no DEVTRACE file was created. After after some time an RFC category message was shown in the upgrade GUI but turned out not relevent for us.
A QZSHSH control job launches two (2) SBMJOB commands calling R3INLPGM with parameters to start the shadow instance. In our case these SBMJOB commands were failing because the SAPINLPGM program invoked by this process wasn't found in library SAP<SID>70UP. I copied the missing SAPINLPGM program from library SAP<SID>70U to SAP<SID>70UP and restarted the upgrade GUI and the shadow instance then started as expected without further issue.
If this doesn't solve the problem try temporarily changing your shadow instance ("R3_08") job description (*JOBD) in R3<SID>400 to better trace the failing SBMJOB commands--> CHGJOBD JOBD(R3_08) .... LOG(4 00 SECLVL) LOGCLPGM(YES). Then rerun the upgrade GUI and after the "start failure" message appears check the QEZJOBLOG (or your default) outqueue for the SBMJOB process SAPSTART and SAPSTRSRV joblogs and see why these are not launching correctly.
Also should you run into the "Symbol o4_getpwnam (number xxx) not exported..." obscure error updating tp and retrans to current patch levels in the ECC5 (640) system took care of that issue for us.
HTH and best of luck with your upgrade(s) :>
Scott

Upgrade from ECC 6.0 with no EHP to EHP 7

Hello,
We are planning an ERP upgrade from ECC 6.0, which has no enhancement package, to EHP 7.
Can this upgrade be done :
1. Directly to EHP7
OR
2. Do we need to first upgrade to a lower EHP, for example - to EHP 5 or 6 first, and then to EHP 7?
Thanks and Regards,
Reena

Hi Reena
Yes, you can upgrade the system to ECC 6 EHP 6 or 7,
before that is any other SAP system are connected to ECC6 ?
If it is yes, Kindly refer the SAP Note, & you require to check those SAP version are supported to ECC 6 EHP 7 ?
1388258 - Version Interoperability within the SAP Business Suite
BR
SS

Advice on upgrade from Ecc 6.0 (No enhancement pack) to EHP 7

Dear Friends
Our customer is thinking about upgrading from ECC 6.0 (No enhancement) to EhP 7. Can anybody tell me what are major efforts, steps and approx. time and precautions to consider in this case.
thanks a lot in advance
Victor

Hi,
SAP Library for SAP ERP on the SAP Help Portal at http://help.sap.com/erp. Choose a
release and then choose Application Help. In SAP Library, choose Business Functions (SAP
enhancement package 7 for SAP ERP 6.0) -> Business Functions in SAP ERP -> Enterprise
Business Functions -> Accounting -> Financial Supply Chain Management -> SAP Treasury
and Risk Management.
Hope this helps.
Regards,
Jyoti

Pm functionality after upgradation to EHP6 from EHP

Dear all Expert,
What are business functions are added in the PM module after up gradation to EHP6 from EHP......

Hi
You can find the functionality in PM for various version in the following link
SAP Solution Browser
Regards
Thyagarajan

Upgrade from 4.6C to ERP6.0 EHP4 NW7.01 fails on EHP_INCLUSION

Hello dear friends at SDN forums,
We are performing an upgrade from a 4.6C Non Unicode source release to a SAP ERP 6.0 EHP4 based on NW 7 EHP1 Non Unicode.
Every phase has gone more or less fine until the current phase EHP_INCLUSION in SAP EHPI tool.
We are trying to specify the stack file manually, cosu00B4 SAP EHPI does not find it automatically via RFC against Solution Manager. I donu00B4t discard a possible missconfiguration in the RFC destination "BACK" configuration (the one that points from our target system to the Solution Manager), but thatu00B4s another story.
Anyway, that shoulnu00B4t be relevant for the trouble Iu00B4m expressing.
As we are on source release 4.6C I must make use of the .txt stack file and not the .xml file, as per SAP notes.
The symptom: everytime I retry that EHP_INCLUSION phase, it complaints about "Sever errors detected. Error Code = -1. Reason: The stack configuration does not contain a product stack".
Iu00B4ll also paste here the contents of the EHP_INCLUSION.log trace file:
1 ETQ201 Entering upgrade-phase "EHP_INCLUSION" ("20100715150020")
2 ETQ367 Connect variables are set for standard instance access
4 ETQ399 System-nr = '00', GwService = 'sapgw00'
4 ETQ399 Environment variables:
4 ETQ399   dbs_ora_schema=SAPR3
4 ETQ399   auth_shadow_upgrade=0
4 ETQ380 computing toolpath for request "TP_DEFAULT"
4 ETQ382 translates to group "R3UP_TOOL_GROUP_OLD"
4 ETQ383 translates to path "D:\usr\sap\CES\SYS\exe\run"
4 ETQ383 translates to path "exe"
4 ETQ399 Set environment for standard connect:
4 ETQ399 ENV: dbs_ora_schema=SAPR3
4 ETQ399 ENV: auth_shadow_upgrade=0
4 ETQ399 Set RFC variables for standard connect:
4 ETQ399 System-nr = '00', GwService = 'sapgw00'
4 ETQ399 Set tool parameters for standard connect:
4 ETQ399   default TPPARAM: DEFAULT.TPP
1 ETQ200 Executing actual phase 'PREP_EXTENSION/EHP_INCLUSION'.
1 ETQ399 Phase arguments:
2 ETQ399 Arg[0] = 'ADDONEHP.DMP'
2 ETQ399 Arg[1] = 'NAVERSEHP.DMP'
2 ETQ399 Arg[2] = 'SPDA_EHP_INCLUSION.LOG'
2 ETQ399 Arg[3] = ''
2 ETQ730 Starting upload of all package files in "
dbapru001\sapmnt\trans\EPS\in"
4 ETQ010 Date & Time: 20100715150020
4 ETQ230 Starting RFC Login to: System = "CES", GwHost = "dbapru001", GwService = "sapgw00"
4 ETQ359 RFC Login to: System="CES", Nr="00", GwHost="dbapru001", GwService="sapgw00"
4 ETQ232 RFC Login succeeded
4 ETQ233 Calling function module "SPDA_PREPARE_PATCH" by RFC
4 ETQ234 Call of function module "SPDA_PREPARE_PATCH" by RFC succeeded
4 ETQ239 Logging off from SAP system
4 ETQ010 Date & Time: 20100715150024
2 ETQ732 Package descriptions uploaded successfully
4 ETQ399 EhP stack selection ...
4 ETQ399 Reading stack content ...
4 ETQ399 ... reading stack configuration file "C:\SMSDXML_CES.txt"
4 ETQ230 Starting RFC Login to: System = "CES", GwHost = "dbapru001", GwService = "sapgw00"
4 ETQ359 RFC Login to: System="CES", Nr="00", GwHost="dbapru001", GwService="sapgw00"
4 ETQ232 RFC Login succeeded
4 ETQ233 Calling function module "SPDA_GET_STACK_INFO" by RFC
2 ETQ399 Returned table ET_STACK_NCVERS:
2 ETQ399 Returned table ET_STACK_PACKAGES:
4 ETQ399 ... Error reading stack info (rc=-1, reason="The stack configuration does not contain a product stack")
That file was generated from Solman Mopz, was saved with a short path name just in case it could be problematic.
The Solman is on version NW 7 EHP1. Our 4.6C SPAM version is 50 (the latest available).
Iu00B4ve been fighting this issue for several days unsuccessfully, and it seems like thereu00B4s no documentation on it.
Iu00B4ve re-read SAP notes , master, EHP and upgrade guides several times, and also similar problems (but not exactly the same as mine) here at SDN forums.
Besides, now Iu00B4m having a problem to create customer messages to OSS which will last a few days (due an issue with our old installation number in SAP Service Marketplace). Thatu00B4s why Iu00B4m trying to obtain support from this forum, before we can obtain a response from SAP OSS.
Has anybody experienced something similar?
Thanks in advance for your help.
Javier

Hi FDK,
As far as I´m concerned, I promise I will write how we solved it when we get it.
The news are: at last we could create a customer message to SAP Support, and SAP has told us to:
1) Ensure that our Solution Manager is in a sufficiently high SP Stack level. In our case, as we have a Sol. Manager based on NW 7 EHP 1 with SP Stack level 20, they are asking us to apply SP Stack level 22 as first meassure.
2) In case we cannot afford to do the mentioned meassure immediately, then they suggest us another possibly working option: to downgrade our SPAM 4.6C from level 50 to 48. There is a SAP Note that explains how a reimport of a Support Package for SPAM can be done (and it seems like it´s even possible to downgrade the SPAM level, I didn´t know that):
SAP Note 684564: Re-importing a SPAM/SAINT update
So, now we are working on these suggestions. As the Solution Manager is really not "ours", but belongs to our SAP VAR (partner), we need to wait until they can schedule this technical task.
So, right now the immediate task I´m trying to perform is downgrading our SPAM 4.6C from level 50 to 48.
But, I have a problem and have just let know it to SAP in the customer message: I have no way to get such level 48 of SPAM 46C. SAP always only hosts the last (or the 2 most recent as much) version of SPAM in the Software Download Center of SAP Service Marketplace. Thus, right now if you navigate in SAP Service Marketplace you´ll only find the 50 level version of SPAM 4.6C. I´m again waiting for SAP ´s response concerning this.
Best regards,
Javier

Usage type issue with PI upgrade from 7.01 to 7.11

Hi guys,
We are currently performing an upgrade on our PI system.
We are upgrading from PI 7.01 to PI 7.11 and we've come cross an issue during the prepare phase of the install.
An error has occurred during the execution of the CHECK_SUPPORTED_SOURCE_USAGES phase.
This upgrade doesn't support upgrade of sap.com/MI usage detected on the source system.
You can find more information in the log file /usr/sap/PI3/upg/java/log/CHECK_SUPPORTED_SOURCE_USAGES_SSU_01.LOG.
Use the information provided to troubleshoot the problem. An SAP Note may provide a solution to this problem. Search for SAP Notes with the following key words: com.sap.sdt.j2ee.phases.PhaseTypeCheckSupportedSourceUsages com.sap.sdt.j2ee.tools.check.NegativeResultException This upgrade doesn't support upgrade of sap.com/MI usage detected on the source system. CHECK_SUPPORTED_SOURCE_USAGES INIT PREPARE NetWeaver Upgrade SAPJup Java Upgrade
When reporting problems to SAP Support, attach the trouble ticket file /usr/sap/PI3/upg/java/log/TroubleTicket_01.txt to your message.
We've looked through the main upgrade notes and they mention which usage types are supported, but they do not mention explicity what usage are not supported, and how to proceed with the upgrade if your system does have one of these non-supported usage types.
Considering our system does contain usage type MI, does this mean that we cannot upgrade our current PI system to 7.11?
Please help!
Thanks,
Steph

Hello
Please see note #1247043 Release Restrictions for EHP 1 for SAP NetWeaver PI 7.1 - section "Upgrade: source system must be a dedicated PI system".
It is not possible to upgrade an existing system with the usage type MI. Even if you delete the usage type MI (if this is possible) the upgrade will not be possible.
Regards
Mark

Mapping changes while upgrading from PI 7.0 to PI 7.31

Hello Experts,
We are upgrading from PI 7.0 EHP 2 to PI 7.31 SP 14 , Dual stack only.
While migration, there are some doubts related with mapping, which are not getting cleared even from going through various blogs like:
Migration Woes?
PI/XI: PI 7.1 upgrade/migration - Message Mappings
Below are my doubts:
As there are mapping changes for IFS, IFSWITHOUT ELSE & Context functions, so exactly what these changes are and how would this work, how can we identify & rectify in all the mappings?
What changes to be performed for Java mapping & XSLT mapping?
Are there any changes for ABAP proxy?
Any help is appreciated
Many Thanks!!!

Hi Lisin,
You need to change in Java mapping accordingly and compile in jre1.6 as many methods used in older version are obsolete now.
You need to write transform instead of execute which was used for PI 7.0
public void transform(TransformationInput in, TransformationOutput out)
throws StreamTransformationException {
You can easily write the code again in message mapping as discussed:
Write Java Mapping directly in ESR!
For XSLT mapping, the older version will be supported as the execution is done using SAP XML Toolkit which is supported in higher versions also.
XSLT Mapping - Managing Services in the Enterprise Services Repository - SAP Library
ABAP proxy will be as it is if you are going for classical scenario as you will be using 7.31 Dual stack.
But if you want to go for AAE Integrated Configuration, you need to do required configuration changes in ECC for outbound Proxy:
Proxy to file scenario using AAE - with full configuration
I am not sure whether you need to change in Graphical standard mapping for those functions which are already there in PI 7.0.
Regards,
Suman

How to upgrade from Solman 7.0 to 7.0 EHP1?

Hi,
In the SAP note 1169247, it talks about doing the upgrade from 7.0 to EHP1 using SAINT and JSPM. But in the Upgrade Guide SAP Enhancement Package 1 for Solution Manager 7.0 - UNIX Oracle˝, it talks about running the upgrade using an Upgrade MAster DVD.
1. Now is this the same as the EHP installer? If so, why is it not mentioned anywhere in the upgrade guide that we have to use EHPI? If not, what is this Upgrade Master installer?
2. Should I use SAINT/JSPM for the upgrade to solman 7.01?
Your answers to these questions will be highly appreciated.
Thanks,
Ajay

Hi Ajay,
I had the same question a few day's ago.
The difference between these two methods are the word updarte and upgrade.
If you are on Solman 7.0 you have to do a update with SPAM/SAINT.
If you are on Solman 3.0 or something you have to do a upgrade with the master dvds. You can read this on one of the first sites of the upgrade guide.
So you have to use SPAM/SAINT, and the Update Guide for EHP1 Using SPAM/SAINT will help you.
[Update Guide on Marketplace|https://websmp101.sap-ag.de/~sapidb/011000358700000427772009E.PDF]
Regards
Tobias

Upgrade from CE 7.2 to Portal 7.3 or higher

Hi Experts,
We are planning to upgrade portal from CE7.2 to 7.31 or higher.
First of all I want to know which will be the best version to upgrade from CE7.2 ?
From SAP installation and upgrade guide I can see this will be a simple EHP upgrade if we goes for 7.3 EHP1 .
Now I wan to know after upgrade what will be the effect/issues on below mentioned custom application areas.
1. Portal Branding (theme)
2. CAF components (EJB)
3. Portal custom DB table.
4. BPM applications
5. Service Registry
6. Web services
Please let me know your inputs on this.
Thanks & Regards,
Sambaran Chakraborty

Hi,
Of course upgrade from CE 7.11 to CE 7.2 IS POSSIBLE. We are doing this in our landscape.
Please refer to the following guide:
Update Guide CE 7.2 (Update from CE 7.1/CE 7.1 EHP1) - SP<nn>
from:
service.sap.com/instguidesnwce72 --> Update --> SP<nn>.
Only this one guide is sufficient. This upgrade is just like SPS update.
Regards,
Shitij

Upgrade from ECC 6.0 EHP5 to EHP7 issue with PO header

HI Experts,
We Upgrade the Ecc 6.0 recently from EHP 5 To EHP 7. In EHP 5 when we select the PO type (REW - Reject ) in ME21N , Reject tab will appear at header level.
In EHP 7 When we enter the PO type (REW - Reject ) in ME21N ,Reject tab will not appearing and it is asking for the organisation elements and vendor .After entering the all the organisation data only reject tab appear in header level.
My client wants EHP 5 Functionality in EHP 7.What clould be the reason to behave like this.How to achive this requirement.
Regards,
Venkat.

Hi Krishna Rao,
It is proved lot of times if you are upgraded new enhancement package in the server then enhancements need to re-check and do manually development in new server and retesting in quality server before moving to Production server.
Ask Abaper to check whether enhancement updated in new enhanced server . If no then Abaper need to update manually.
Regards,
Ravindra

Dynamic sql is throwing dump after upgrade to EHP 7.0

Hi All,
My customer recently upgraded to EHP 7.0.
I have one query like below :
select * from (ls_table_list-tabname) into
                         table <table>
                         where (condition).
where ls_table-tabname is the table name, <table> is with the structure of same table and condition is very simple where condition. (id = 'XXXXX').
We are getting dump with "CX_SY_DYNAMIC_OSQL_SYNTAX" and the dump message is "
When parsing a dynamic statement, an error occurred.
Before upgrade same statements were working fine.
Please send us the response asap. Its urgent.
Thanks in advance,
Sreedhar

Hi Divyanshu,
Following is the text of Short dump :
Category ABAP Programming Error
Runtime error SAPSQL_PARSE_ERROR
Exception CX_SY_DYNAMIC_OSQL_SYNTAX
ABAP program / GETPF / SAPLTABLE_CONTENT_CHECK
Application component not assigned
Date and Time 07.02.2014 14:57:48
Short text
When parsing a dynamic statement, an error occurred.
What happened?
Error in ABAP application program.
The current ABAP program "/ GETPF / SAPLTABLE_CONTENT_CHECK" had to be canceled
be as it appears on
an instruction is encountered, which unfortunately can not be executed.
Error Analysis
There is an exception has occurred, which is discussed further below.
The exception, which is assigned to the class 'CX_SY_DYNAMIC_OSQL_SYNTAX'
was in the procedure "/ GETPF / TABLE_CONTENT_CHECK" "(FUNCTION)" neither
intercepted,
still propagated by a RAISING clause.
Since the caller of the procedure is not with the occurrence of the exception
could be expected, the running program was terminated.
Error was at below statement :
      SELECT * FROM (ls_table_list-tabname) INTO
TABLE <table>
WHERE (condition).

ECC6 Upgrade and EHP 4 because of a CRM7 in the landscape?

Hi,
I am in the way to upgrade my SAP 4.6c system to ECC6.
In my overall landscape, I have a CRM 7 installed.
Do you believe I need to perform a simple ECC6 upgrade or a ECC6 upgrade including EHP4 SR1?
In other words, is it mandatory to go through the Upgrade + EhP4 because I have a CRM 7 around?
Thank you,
Chris

Hi,
according to my view upgrade from SAP 4.6c to ERP 6.0 EHP4 is easy because you can save your time in all preparation task that you to carry before starting upgrade as EHP upgrade itself takes time for preaprtion task....
also, you can reduce the downtime of your production environment if you will directly go to ERP EHP4..
As EHP4 takes significant downtime to upgrade the system ( also depends on hardware and database size)...
Also, you can reduce probablity of error free upgrade by carrying out one upgrade instead of carrrying out 2 upgrade (from SAP 4.6c to ERP6.0 then ERP6.0 to EHP4)...
Hope it clears to you...
Thanks
Sunny

Upgrading from ECC 6.0 Sp11 to SP15

Hi,
We plan to Upgrade from ECC 6.0 Sp11 to SP15.
I like to find the documents for SP 15 to estimate the effort required for upgrading.
It would be great if some one provide me the info where to get this.
Thanks
Senthil

Hi
Support Packages:-
SAP delivers various types of program corrections with Support Packages as part of the software maintenance. Support Packages automatically correct a whole range of errors by downloading corrections into the SAP System. Two categories of Support Packages are available: ABAP Support Packages and Java Support Packages.
Enhancement package:
New functionality will be added to your existing sofware components
Please go thorugh link http://service.sap.com/erp-ehp for more information
Regards
Uday

Upgrade from EHP 7.01 to CE 7.1

Similar Messages

Maybe you are looking for