Upgrading Dual 450 Processor

Good day all!
I would like to upgrade the dual 450 processor in my G4(Gigabit Ethernet) to at least a dual 1gig. I know the MDD's don't/can't work, but what about other used apple processors (ie. quicksilver or the like)?
I would like to keep the parts apple and although they are more rare than the MDD's they still pop up now and again.
Are there any issues/limitations?
Many Thanks,
El Jefe de Biosmell

Hi
The CPU upgrades database at www.xlr8yourmac.com is a useful place to look for information on processor upgrades. If you select Apple for the card manufacturer, you'll see reports from people who have used processor daughter cards pulled from other Macs.
Like you say, processor cards pulled from a MDD or FW800 won't work due to architectural differences such as the use of DDR RAM.
I believe it's technically possible to use a processor card pulled from a QuickSilver or Digital Audio, although it involves a lot of effort.
Firstly the bus multiplier on the processor card must be increased to take into account the difference in bus speed, which involves adding and/or removing resistors. For example, a 1GHz processor from a Quicksilver will have the bus multiplier set to 7.5 (7.5 x 133.33MHz = 1GHz). In a Gigabit Ethernet with a 100MHz bus the processor would run at 750MHz, unless the multipler is increased to 10.
Secondly Quicksilver processor cards require a 12 volt feed to one of the screws which secure it to the logic board, although this can be taken from a spare hard drive molex power connector.
Thirdly the Quicksilver processor cards and heat sinks are physically larger and in the Quicksilver are located in a different position on the logic board. When they're installed in a Gigabit Ethernet I think the card interferes with the ATA connector for the optical drive, and the heat sink may prevent the case from closing, unless both are modified.
Fourthly I have a feeling any level 3 cache may not be recognised, as the Gigabit Ethernets and Quicksilvers shipped with different G4 variants.
In short it may be easier just to use a third party upgrade. They're available from the following companies amongst others:
http://eshop.macsales.com/shop/accelerators/
http://www.gigadesigns.com/
http://www.sonnettech.com/product/cpu_upgrades.html
http://fastmac.com/

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Processor from Dual 450 Gigaethernet to 400 single AGP Graphics compatabil

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Hi
I guess one option may be to upgrade the processor in the AGP Graphics machine instead. You could always swap some RAM and the hard drives etc between the two to make it your 'main' computer. As far as I'm aware the only advantages of the Gigabit Ethernet (other than gigabit ethernet and the fact they're slightly newer) are that some models came with dual processors and I think it also supports graphics cards with an ADC connector (unlike the AGP Graphics).

Upgrading Power Mac G4, dual 450 Mhz, to use Logic Express 8

I am actually confessing to being a windows studying pc engineer, but am also interested in macs.
My sister has just purchased the G4, 450 Mhz, (dual) i am confused on a few things and am trying to help her!
Basically can anyone help?
The problem is, does dual mean, that there's two processors (i am going to open it later when shes home from work and actually look!) and also, the 450 mhz, is dual, so is that 450 x 2 or just 450? I have looked about this site, and have noticed there is not much room to up the processor speed, but the goal is to get her processor speed up to a minimum of 1.25 Ghz.
Also, she wants to create her own music on a small budget, so cannot afford Logic Pro 7, it is installed on her machine but she has no key? (the guy she bought it from didnt say it needed one!)
So she now purchased Logic Express 8, but when trying to use it, the message is saying to the effect of not large enough processor speed. She has installed it on top of Logic 7, so both are now on there, will that matter?
Is the processor slot the same for the larger Mhz upgrades? if so, which are the best processors to use?
We have all the ram, she bought 1.5 GB, and large hdds, it is just this problem now, and she was in tears last night, due to the fact, every time she asks someone, she gets one step closer, gets hopeful, to find another hitch!
I am really sure i can get it workable for her, but need some apple expertise guys, sorry i know you dont appreciate windows users much, and i would own a mac, just when i can afford one!
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semmi

Hi-
Welcome to Discussions!
Sounds like you are dealing with a Gigabit Ethernet model of G4, equipped with dual 450mhz processors. It was a monster in it's day, and still has good use left in it. Problem is, 450mhz, even dual, isn't much by current software requirements.
http://www.everymac.com/systems/apple/powermacg4/stats/powermac_g4_450dp.html
As for Logic- version 7 would be usable on the machine as is. There is no problem with installing version 8 on the same system. It would be nice for her to be able to get the proper "key" to be able to use v.7. It would definitely be worth pursuing the issue with the seller.
And, as you know, to use v.8, you need more processor. Processors are a relatively easy upgrade. There are many options available, as well. One of the best buys (performance for the money) are 7455 based single processor upgrades from OWC or Fastmac:
http://eshop.macsales.com/item/Other%20World%20Computing/MEG42M1500/
http://store.fastmac.com/advancedsearchresult.php?keywords=agp
The following are all compatible with the dual 450 G4:
http://eshop.macsales.com/MyOWC/Upgrades.cfm?model=158&type=Processor&TI=4655&sh oupgrds=Show+Upgrades
You can check an installation video from the following:
http://eshop.macsales.com/tech_center/installation.cfm

Upgrading AGP Graphics Processor; Dual vs. Single

So i just received a pair of old G4 towers. They're both AGP Graphics 400mhz machines, and i'm thinking of upgrading the processors on both. From what i understand from reading through the forums, they can take an OEM processor from some of the newer G4 towers. I've checked, and both machines have Uni-North numbers greater than 7 (one is 7, the other is 8), so they both can accept dual processors. Trying to weigh my options and decide what's best, taking into consideration that the bus on the AGP machine is only 100mhz compared to 133/167mhz bus on the faster processors...
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2. Dual 500mhz processor (will run true @ 1ghz due to the 100mhz bus on the AGP machine)
2. Dual 1ghz/800mhz Processor (will run underclocked)
Thoughts? This would no doubt be a cheap upgrade, there are plenty of processors on eBay for under $100, and that makes it worthwhile for me.
Thanks in advance!

1. Single 1ghz/933mhz/867mhz processor (will run underclocked)
This will also require a 12v power modification to use a QS processor in a sawtooth.
2. Dual 500mhz processor (will run true @ 1ghz due to the 100mhz bus on the AGP machine)
This will run a true +500 MHz+, not 1 GHz. The dual processor just increases multi-thread processing ability. They do not double the clock speed.
But, this is a plug and play upgrade, and a nice improvement over a single 400 MHz processor.
2. Dual 1ghz/800mhz Processor (will run underclocked)
Again, there are voltage differences in the machine's which must be overcome.
You can find information on the actual modifications needed Here.
If you are capable of doing the mod work, I think it would be a fun project, and provide a boost to the old machines.

Upgrade GigaBit Ethernet Processor to Dual 1.0+

I have the Gigabit Ethernet Power Mac G4 and I want to upgrade the current processor to a Dual Processor above 1.0. The higher the better as well as the price is reasonable. I have seen some by Sonnet and others but I was asking what is the best I can get from a price and quality perspective. Thank you!

Hi-
Welcome to Discussions!
There aren't many dual processor upgrades currently available.
Of these upgrades, the 1.5ghz OWC single processor will outperform a dual 1.0ghz processor. There is a dual 1.8ghz Sonnet, but it will be out performed by the Newertech 7448 based 2.0ghz processor. For best price/performance, either the OWC or the Newertech would be the better choice.
For a dual processor, the FastMac dual 1.4ghz will be the strongest dual processor upgrade, better than the dual 1.8ghz Sonnet by virtue of the 2mb L3 cache.
The FastMac, OWC and the Newertech have three year warranties, as opposed to Sonnets one year.

ATI/Radeon 9800 Pro 128 AGP 4x/2x in Gigabit Ethernet dual 450 PMac G4

Hi,
This is my first time posting to these discussion group... I've been going through related threads and have not found an answer to my problem...
I have a Gigabit Ethernet dual 450 G4. Awhile ago I upgraded the processor to a Sonnet 1.8ghz so I could run Leopard.
I just bough the ATI/Radeon 9800 Pro 128 AGP 4x/2x video card. I researched around and that seemed to be a card that would work in my machine. I even read a review on Amazon where someone had also upgraded to the 1.8 processor used this card with no issues.
I do have an older monitor - Apple Studio Display CRT with the ADC connector. So I also bought the Apple DVI to ADC adapter kit.
I installed the card and do not get any picture at all - I believe I have installed everything correctly. I'm pretty sure I can hear the fan on the video card in the machine. The monitor is getting power from the adapter since the button lights up when I press it - but it does not stay lit -- the monitor never turns on. Using my old graphics card the monitor makes a little "beep" when it turns on.
In reading the other topics I am wondering if it might be a power issue? According to Other World Computing's profile my machine has a max of 220 watts. Although they suggest this video card as one the will work in my machine.
I have disabled the hard drive that came with the machine (too small) and am using two Maxtor hard drives that I added - one ATA (120gb) and one SATA (500gb) that is connected to an SATA pci card. I also have two additional pci cards with usb 2.0/firewire ports.
In looking at the topics here I came across the link about taping the 3 and 11 pins on the video card. Even though the card I have is 4x/2x not 8x I thought I'd give it a shot. That did not work either.
Any help you can give would be greatly appreciated.

I don't wish to sound redundant here, but I've been reviewing the vendor's page:
It's OK- I don't mind beating this dead horse....
The maker says such to protect themselves from possible claims that may arise due to over loaded systems and power problems when their card is installed in said system.
Of course, 300w would be nice, but they didn't even specify the PSU rating a couple years ago. The Sawtooth, with it's 237w PSU, used to be listed as a compatible machine for the 9800...... They just didn't consider how far a Sawtooth might be modded.
Within reason, the early G4's (Sawtooths) are capable of using the Radeon 9800 Pro. The GE has the same 338w PSU as the DA (they are interchangeable), so there is plenty of power for the 9800.
One thing to remember, the requirements of the ADC port of the AGP slot are removed by using a non ADC card. This really changes the calculations of the power available.
It's kinda' a long post, but, if you care to get ALL the details, check the following:
http://discussions.apple.com/thread.jspa?messageID=7065653&#7065653
I think you'll be satisfied with the explanation.......
Which leaves your second, and very appropriate, point.
The main enemy of all, though, isn't power. Heat is the biggest concern.
Reducing heat/increasing cooling by using a third party fan on the 9800 is highly recommended. The 9800 is a hot card, and the stock fan is prone to early failure.
Adding additional cooling to remove the extra heat produced by the 9800, by using an exausting PCI fan, will also help the PSU provide adequate voltage to the system, by reducing the amount of hot air moving out of the PSU.
Super heated air moving through the PSU reduces the cooling ability of the PSU. A hot PSU doesn't produce reliable power.
So, add the 9800, add some cooling, and enjoy!

G4 Dual 450 Boot Problem

Ive been reading other issues that others have been having. Ive got a 450 agp that I upgraded to a dual 450. I hadnt used it in a while and when I tried using it again, it would cut on, but no video, startup sound or light on button. Before I read the help column, I ordered another processor and heatsink thinking that was the problem. I installed the new processor and the cpu would start but had some issues. So I took everything off to test the other motherboard and when I re-hook up the new board; Nothing happened. The no light on power, no sound or video issue happens.
Ive looked up and performed the reset cuda, pram process numerous times for nothing to happen. I even bought a new battery, and stripped the motherboard down to nothing; waited 30 minutes and followed the reinstall procedure given and still nothing. Now maybe once is ok, but 2 motherboards and 2 processor is unlikely. Anyone experienced similar and can help???

Hi-
To be clear, what model motherboard are you using?
What CPU are you trying to use?
Have you tested the PSU (power supply) for power?
AGP G4 PSU Test
Gigabit Ethernet PSU Test
Power Mac G4: Computer Does Not Power On, No Fan Movement

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Don

Jdeveloper dual core processor performance problem

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Hi Bernard,
Which version of McAfee are you using?
On my (personal) laptop, I'm using McAfee VirusScan 9.0.10. I don't frequently run JDeveloper on this laptop, but when I do, it's not experiencing signficant startup delays (it's a very low power machine: PIII 650 512Mb)
McAfee VirusScan seems to have very few configuration options (noticably different from Norton, which I use on my corporate desktop machine). I specifically remember changing the "File Types to Scan" option to "Program files and documents only". You can get to this by right clicking the "M" notification area icon, VirusScan->Options menu, Advanced button on the ActiveShield page.
In Norton, I think I have it configured so that it only scans files on write rather than on read. I also exclude directories which contain jdeveloper installs or other large Java apps (although scanning only on write elliminates most of the performance problems anyway and still leaves your system reasonably secure).
The easiest way to convince your MIS dept that the virus checker is the source of your problems might be if you ask them to allow you to turn it off in order to test the difference it makes to performance. It's a reasonable request to make if you're trying to elliminate possible causes for the slowdown (from the description you gave, it does sound like the AV upgrade is the first place I'd start looking).
If the virus checker is the source of your problems, you'll probably be seeing massive slowness in most large Java applications that have a large number of JARs on their classpath.
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Does a G4 w/dual 450's = 900MHz

I have a G4 with dual 450's and 256mb ram.
I am thinking of buying a d2 DVD±RW with LightScribe 16x - FireWire, Double Layer and Toast 7 Titanium for Mac., but it needs 500MHz as a minimum.
Will it work or do i need to find a different drive?

Hi,
Dual processors work faster only at programs that are optimised for them. So, no, you aren't really running at double speed. In addition, you don't have very much RAM and that will hinder your work quite a bit, 1GB of RAM or more for these operations is really needed.
However, your machine should work with this DVD. But don't expect speed. The Lightscribe procedure is very slow, up to an hour for a complex writing (my brother's G5 Quad takes 20-30 minutes on an external FW Lightscribe). Slow CPU's and low RAM might make writing a DVD very SLOW as well. If you are just burning CD's and want a Lightscribe label, a dual 450 will be adequate. Besides, the Lightscribe disks themselves are a bit expensive.
My answer is - get a lot more RAM and you have a decent chance at a good burn.
Regards,
Dave

Node application G4 dual 450/macmini/LaCie

is it possible to chain together a Dual 450 G4 a mac mini intel dual and a LaCie HD and run the Node application to spread the processor weight?
thanks

Pat,
When connected, does it show up in Disk Utility? If so, it's failure to mount is probably due to restrictive permissions and differing ownership. In other words, you probably have permissions for the volume set such that only the "owner" can access it, and said ownership differs on your G4 tower.
In fact, the drive is probably mounting, but the mounted volume is inaccessible to you (on the tower).
If you find that the drive is, in fact, showing up in Disk Utility, and you wish to access it from the tower, let us know. There are steps you can take to correct the problem.
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Will G4 Dual 450 run Panther?

Panther needs 867. I figure Dual 450=900, But am I right? I have plenty of memory and spare hard drive space.
I am running 10.3.9 and would like to upgrade if I can.
Thanks.

Ummm...
10.3 = Panther. Panther will work on G3s and G4s with built-in USB and no built-in SCSI (PCI SCSI cards don't count). Your G4/450 should work. Exceptions on G4s are ones released with 10.4 or newer:
http://docs.info.apple.com/article.html?artnum=25517
10.4 = Tiger. Tiger will work on G3s with built-in Firewire. All G4s have built-in Firewire, so they work with Tiger.
10.5 = Leopard. Leopard is the one with the 867 Mhz G4 requirement.
Are you thinking about getting Panther for your G4 or Leopard?
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FYI--Compressing times of a dual 450 vs dual 1.25 vs Quad

Just got my quad and after some hoops to jump thru I have fcp 4.5/compressor 1.2 running fine now.....
Now these times are not 100% accurate....off by a few minutes here and there but this is what i've got from going from two g4's dual 450 and dual 1.25 to a G5 Quad.....
This project is 1 hour and 40 minutes with a fair bit of colour correction, a third of it time remapped, and a third of it with a widescreen matte...
dual 450 - just the video compress --approx. 15 hours
dual 1.25 - just video --approx. 10 hours
Quad - just video compress---under 1 hour and 30 minutes....
All I have to say is holy crap batman!!
For me getting the quad now certainly makes a lot of financial sense as I will be able to finish projects a lot faster. I have a back log of about a dozen projects. Can now ship off my slowest mac to a friend who can work for me as well.....:)
The Upgrade is coming in the next week or two and I should see a bit of a difference there as well.....
WOW WOW WOW.......
rob
Dual 450/1.25 G4 1.12/1.75 gigs of ram Mac OS X (10.4.2)

I just use the qmaster startup automator someone created
and shared on this forum a while back.
I put it in my Startup Items, and after a couple of clicks,
and my admin password, its up and runs fine.
My only probelm is I have a bit of an audio problem,
but I've created a work around for that, and all is well
under tiger on my Dual 1DDR.

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20" Cinema Display with G4 dual 450

I just purchased a 20" Cinema Display to use on my G4 dual 450. I'm going to buy the ATI Radeon 7500 graphics card that's recommended, but I'm confused. Is there more than one version of this card? In the specs I don't see the Mac operating system mentioned.
My graphics needs are very simple so I want the least expensive card I can get that will handle the 20" display, and this one seems to be it. Also, is there anything else (adapter?) that I'll need?
Thanks,
Carole
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Hi Carole,
The display you describe is a DVI display.
From where are you getting the graphics card?
If the ATI Radeon 7500 card you are looking at has no mention of Mac specifications, then it is probably not the Mac edition, more likely a PC edition.
Only Mac edition cards, or PC edition cards that have been "flashed" with a Mac ROM, will work in a Mac. As "flashing" is an after market modification, you are relying on the technical expertise of the "flasher" to give you a functional card.
The true Mac edition ATI Radeon 7500 is an OEM card (so is not generally available "off the shelf"):
http://www.ati.com/products/radeon7500/radeon7500me/specs.html
It has VGA and ADC output. You would have to get an ADC to DVI adaptor to be able to use the DVI display. Here's an example of an adaptor:
http://www.drbott.com/prod/db.lasso?code=0123-ADE2
Given all the things I have just pointed out, it would probably be more appropriate for you to get the ATI Radeon 8500 Mac Edition (if you can find one, they are a bit rare). Howwever, it has DVI output, so you can hook the display straight in.
If you can't find the 8500, the next most available card would be the ATI Radeon 9000 Pro Mac Edition, but it has VGA and ADC output, so you would have to use the adaptor that I mentioned before.
Cheers!
Karl

Upgrading Dual 450 Processor

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