Urgent: NTSC project with PAL VOB - weird symptoms

I need help with this in the next day, so I hope someone can respond quickly. (Encore CS3 on Windows XP)
I was sent a DVD with a video clip to which I need to add Japanese subtitles and show at a meeting in 36 hours, and then distribute about a dozen copies to others around Japan who will show it to other people. Although I knew it was sent from a PAL country, since it looked great on my computer, I assumed they sent me an NTSC version (I didn't realize how versatile PC-based players are - I'm smarter now). I made a new Encore project, put the VOB file in it, added my subtitles and made a simple menu, and burned a disk. I started to suspect something was odd when it took about a half hour to
transcode the 6 minute video - I was thinking that a VOB wouldn't need transcoding at all. Then when I played the disk on a regular player I could see the jittery movement, so I tried the original DVD (which of course wouldn't play) and realized that I had been working with PAL video all along.
The result of Encore's attempt to convert the video is tolerable for this purpose, especially on such short notice, but after the burn another problem appeared. I went back to my project to fix a couple subtitles, but in my timeline things started to act funny - after moving around my timeline just a little, suddenly the bounding box for the subtitles appeared much higher than where I put it and kinda squished vertically, as if it thinks the whole video frame is much vertically narrower than it really is (but the video doesn't squish; just the subtitles). Fortunately I had not saved since the burn, so I did a Save As instead, and compared the two projects. The original project with only pre-transcode data still acts okay, but the one saved post-transcode compresses the subtitle area, not immediately but after viewing just a couple spots on the timeline after opening the file.
I made the necessary edits on the original project file, and will burn another draft disk (going to bed rather than staying to watch it transcode again). But I would like to know:
Is this the best result I'm going to get with the available tools (PPro/Encore CS3, AE 6.0)? I did a search before posting, and everyone talks of DVFilm Atlantis, but I can't spare $200 right now. Actually, it looks better than I would imagine from reading DVFilm's description of how converted video looks
without their software, so either they make it sound worse than it is, or CS3 contains improved algorithms for this - to the casual eye it's only noticable in areas of faster movement.
Does anyone know what might be causing the shrinking subtitle problem in the project after transcoding? It would be nice to save my transcoded video and not have to start over every time. I want to also include another 14 minute video from the same DVD (without subititles), but then it would take a couple hours to transcode and burn each disk.
Thanks in advance for your quick help.

I had already tried changing the filename extension to MPG and importing into AE (see my previous post). That
definitely didn't work - it looked as if it took random frames from all over the video and interchanged them, as crazy as that sounds. Per your suggestion I used PPro as an intermediate step to change it to PAL AVI, and that was okay. But after AE changed that to NTSC AVI, the result is not as good as what Encore did. Encore's output just has jaggies where there is strong movement (like an oversized version of interlacing), but the AE attempt has a kind of temporal jerkyness - all movement stops and starts continually. Perhaps a newer version of AE would do better, but...
Never mind - for now I'll just use what I have, and I just finished an email to the people who made the video, asking if they can mail an NTSC DVD that I can use later (it'll take a while for mail from South Africa to Japan, so I'll have to wait a bit before making multiple copies of my DVD for distribution). Thanks for trying to help!

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How to convert my NTSC project to PAL?

Hi! I'd like know how i can convert my ntsc project into PAL.
I need finish a DVD for my client take to ANGOLA and there is PAL system.It is possible? My Encore is 2.0.
Or It is possible put my NTSC movie into PAL project and let encore transcode the movie? Thank you very much and sorry my english.

You have several options.
1 - Create a new PAL project in Premiere Pro. Capture your footage in the usual manner, and as soon as it is in the project, hit the ENTER key to render it.
2 - Create an NTSC project in Premiere Pro, capture to NTSC DV footage, and export it out again.
Close project.
Create new PAL project, import the NTSC clip & then interpret/conform the footage to the project settings.
3 - Set up an NTSC project, capture footage, export to PAL DV or MPEG-2 from Premiere.
4 - Use TMPGEnc Xpress 4 - it's standards conversion is very good.
5 - Use ProCoder, as Ruud suggests
6 - Use CCE SP if you have it.
I'd try as many different ways as you can, and view the lot to see what looks the best.

Convert NTSC project to PAL

I have a completed video project done in NTSC and want to make the identical project in PAL.
Is there a set protocol to accomplish this?
W

I have done it the other way, as I'm in the UK but you (unless someone can say otherwise) change the format from NTSC to PAL in Encore.
I have gone back into my Premier project and output the original footage from PAL to NTSC format, then dropped that into the Encore project, although you would have to resize your menu accordingly. Not a problem if it's just a basic menu with buttons.
I've found that most people these days have DVD players that play all region DVD's so this may not be a problem.
Hope that helps.

NTSC Project to PAL - Different than previous posting

I have a NTSC project in Encore 2.0. I rendered videos for it in NTSC and PAL from Premier.
My problem that I don't want to rebuild my entire DVD project in Encore just to link the PAL videos.
But, I haven't seen a way to export the project or save it as a PAL project.
Any tips or clues? I want the PAL project to be just like the NTSC project except to use the PAL clips instead of NTSC.
Chuck

Chuck,
With all due respect, did you read/understand BJ's post just above yours?
He describes what issues you will encounter with Encore or any software, and why, even if you could convert the video on the fly, the menus would need to be re-done from scratch.
Finally, no. There is no project setting you can change. You must start a new project. If you dig around in the project folder of the NTSC project, you can probably decipher which are the menu files. Maybe you can salvage something from that.
Best of luck,
Jeff

NEWBIE- CONVERTING NTSC PROJECT TO PAL USING COMPRESSOR (?)

Hi all- thanks for any help you can offer.
I am taking a project(instructional dvd) with six chapters that I have completed in NTSC. I was told that if I want to now go to PAL, that I could go back to final cut pro 5, make quicktime movies of each chapter then put them in compressor with pal settings and make mpeg2's out of them. Then I create a new dvd studio pro project in pal and go from there. When I did that (IS that the way to go?) it seemed as if compressor took waaaay too little time to compress the chapter. Just looking for some advice on the most sure fire way (short of importing and re-editing all my clips in final cut) to convert my ntsc quicktime movies to a pal format that I can use to make a pal dvd.
Thanks so much
suz6
g5 quad Mac OS X (10.4.9) final cut studio fcp 5/ pro dvd studio pro 4

Hi:
Read this recent post in Compressor forum:
http://discussions.apple.com/thread.jspa?threadID=1015451&tstart=0
Hope that helps !
Alberto

URGENT -NTSC DVD to PAL DVD

Dear Friends
I have a specific question regarding the creation of a
PAL DVD. I am using DVD STudio Pro 1.5 and my editing program is Final Cut 3.0.
Do I need to recreate my (NTSC) video in Final Cut Pro for PAL?
Or can I change it to PAL in DVD Studio Pro?
The reason that I 'm asking is that sometimes my DVDs don't play overseas. This has happened to
me in France as well as Wales.
Thanks so much.
Mary

Hi Mary,
If you need DVD's that ALWAYS play you need to convert your source material to PAL. You also need to create menu's etc. that are the correct size.
However if you just need 80% or 90% compatibility ALL standalone PAL DVD players will play NTSC discs (region coding aside). They output a signal with PAL color space and NTSC frame rate and resolution. Most PAL TV's manufactured since about mid 1990 can play that signal.
Mitch

DV-NTSC Project to PAL DVD

Here is what I intend to do:
Create a copy of the project file project_pal.fcp
In project_pal.fcp change easy setting to DV-PAL
Export sequences to quicktime
Use compressor to convert to DVD ready files
Author DVD w/ DVDSP
My questions are:
Where in here to I need to change any additional setting to make the DVD PAL ready? Is there anything in compressor or DVDSP I need to change or will exporting from a PAL project get that done?
Thanks!

Converting from NTSC to PAL is not a trivial bit of transcoding. There are disparate frame rates as well as different frame sizes. You can't just drop in a NTSC file in a PAL timeline and get good results.
There are three good ways to do it.
1. Purchase and use Graeme Nattress's Standards Convert plug in to convert the NTSC timeline to PAL on export within FCP.
or
2. Use Compressor's Advanced features to convert the exported NTSC file to PAL.
or
3. Take the file to a post house that can do a hardware based standard conversion.
Once you have the file in a PAL format, author a PAL disk and burn it within DVDSP.
Of course, the disk should be region free.
x

NTSC camcorder with PAL footage

I have a Sony DCR-TRV950 camcorder which is a NTSC version. I have recordings that where made on a PAL camcorder. Final cut does not receive a picture. At this point you may be thinking yes and it won't, but the thing is I have managed it using Adobe Premier Pro. I still have this footage and moved it into Final cut which made a comment that the footage would be better quality if I got Final cut to move in the footage. Is this true and if it is, is there a way of getting FC to get the footage?

While your camera does support playback of PAL tapes its not true PAL its going to be PAL60.
It may be FCP does not see this as a valid or true format on log and capture.
Your best bet is either have the tape converted to NTSC prior to starting the edit or hire a deck that does playback true PAL digitise from this and edit and convert the final edit to NTSC.
Of course I am assuming you want an NTSC programme in the end.
If not working with PAL60 is not really advisable and you should hire the deck to digitise the footage in the first place anyway.

Create NTSC DVD with PAL .avi?

I have a PAL mini DV tape that I had transferred over as a PAL AVI file. When I import the file in imove and export a .MOV it doesn't play on my Apple TV? Do I need to convert the file to NTSC before importing to iMovie or is there a way for iMovie to do it? Thanks!

http://www.nattress.com/Products/standardsconversion/standardsconversion.htm

Burn a PAL dvd from ntsc project

I have an NTSC project with all ntsc media and would like to burn a PAL dvd. what is the easiest way to do so. I converted the media to pal and was hoping to do a 'save as' on the dvdsp project and just change it to PAL but it won't except the media.
thanks
andy
dvdsp 4, 2.7 dual g5.

It makes sense that a PAL DVD project wouldn't accept media that's already compressed to MPEG2 in NTSC format. When the DVD is built, all it does is multiplex the audio/video. It doesn't change the compression or frame rate or size.
You'd probably need to recompress the original edited source video in Compressor to PAL format. Once you select a preset in Compressor, you need to change the Video Format from Automatic to PAL. Select the preset and in the Inspector, click the Encoder section, then the Video Format tab. Then you'll see the Video Format popup menu where you can change it to PAL.
One other thing to keep in mind: It might be a waste of time to convert it to PAL since most PAL DVD players can convert NTSC format DVDs on the fly during playback. I send NTSC DVDs to Hungary all the time and they have no trouble playing them with typical consumer PAL DVD players.

Will DVD studio pro convert PAL for an NTSC project

Greetings. I am trying to create NTSC showreels from material that was filmed and captured as PAL. Will importing the PAL asset into an NTSC DVD-SP project mean that it will then encode an NTSC MPEG. Or should I convert the original movie in FCP? I am looking for the solution that requires the least time, as these showreel are needed urgently in the states.
The reason I ask is that as a result of technical inexperience of my colleauges a whole hard drive of PAL assets has been sent to the states in order to make showreels for the production companies directors. This included master Showreel Projects which are in PAL. I am not sure of the best way to unf*£$k the situation but hoped it would be as simple as changing the Disc setting to NTSC. Thanks so much for your help. Also If you know of any sites which could help clear this up with information or software...
Sorry I realise this is a fundamental question
Thanks again
Peter Stenhouse

I'm afraid not. It may even be the case that if you have your project set to NTSC it won't import PAL assets (We do all our encoding outside of DVD-SP and if you try and import PAL m2v's into NTSC project it won't do it).
The PAL assets will need to be converted either professionally by a facilities house which time base correctors and all those doodads or you could try using something like Graeme Nattress's convertor for FCP
http://www.nattress.com/standardsConversion.htm
never used them but heard they bare good (and not too expensive) though time consuming
It may be that you can do it directly in FCP but I seem to remember somewhere that it wasn't very satisfactory. At least you have the advantage that you have PAL resolution going to NTSC res and not the other way (which we have to deal with all the time in the UK - not hugely satisfactory)
Hope this helps
Steve Kirkham

URGENT!! Converting PAL to NTSC

Hi all
I need a reply on this badly!!
I just [so I thought] converted a PAL Anamorphic FCP Movie to NTSC Anamorphic QT using the Standards Conversion NTSC Anamorphic Preset in Compressor. RESULT: The Aspect Ratio has changed BUT when imported into an NTSC project in FCP Item Properties says its frame rate is 25 fps and not 30 or 29.97 AND when dropped into an NTSC Sequence it requires rendering for the video and audio streams. [Using Compressor 2.01 & FCP 5]
PLEASE PLEASE HELP, EXTREMELY URGENT!!!
[email protected]

Just had a quick go taking a 4:3 pal clip (no anamorphic to hand) and outputted to Anamorphic NTSC and I got 30.12 fps! It seems something is up with compressor (search here)
If totally pushed for time try JES Deinterlacer its free, otherwise pop for
http://www.nattress.com/standardsConversion.htm
EDIT: It appears you must turn on frame controls (searching here) to get the frame rate corrected. You may want to set everything to the fastest since frame controls can take time to process
A bit more info:
http://discussions.apple.com/thread.jspa?messageID=1107697&#1107697
Message was edited by: i5m

Is there a way to convert an existing NTSC project to a PAL project?

I searched the Encore CS3 manual and all four Encore forums before starting this thread. Apologies if I missed the answer.
In Encore CS3, apparently one is only allowed to specify NTSC or PAL when starting a new project. If I try File->Project Settings on an existing project, I can change the Authoring Mode between DVD and Blu-ray, but the Television Standard edit box is grayed out and cannot be changed.
I often need to release projects in both NTSC and PAL standards, and it is a royal PITA to have to start a new PAL project, import the exact same assets as for my NTSC project, then rebuild all my menus, buttons, timelines, chapters, etc.
Can the conversion be done? Am I missing an obvious method? If not, why is it that the same assets can only be bound to a given standard when importing?

I understand your concern. I don't know for sure yet myself as the client had yet to mail the discs to Italy last time I talked to them.
However, I would check to see if the people on the forum are saying they won't work because they made a mistake in changing the parameters in ifoedit or if everything was correct and it still didn't play. Also, once you make the discs, even if everything is correct, they certainly won't play in American DVD players that aren't multi-region.
Also, ifoedit is a really simple free program you can download. If you google it you should be able to find it quickly.
From the quick look at the link I gave you, it looked like a rudimentary explanation of how to do it. I need to find for you the web site I found when I did this a couple months ago. I know I saved the info somewhere on my hard drive. I will try to find it later tonight after my kids go to sleep, ha!
Yes, the files you need to change are the ones that are created when you export to folder in Encore. The .VOBs and the .IFO extensioned files (that you open and edit in the program). After you change the IFO files, you can take those files including the .VOBs into a dvd burning program like nero or roxio and burn a dvd-video (not data).
If you have to change the language of the menus and all that, than you'll have to re-author the dvd in encore anyway you may as well do it through encore.

NTSC project modified to PAL project is this possible?

I have a project that i am working with that has 3 menus, 7 tracks & 17 scripts.
there are two DVD's in the "set" each one is the same... just different video tracks... essentially its a 2 disc set that i need one version of NTSC (done) and one PAL version.
I have created the NTSC project first, but before I create the PAL versions i wanted to know if anyone had come up with a way of just replacing the project assets & video assets to PAL?
I have tried removing all the video off all the tracks and deleting them from the project (this works with no menus & no scripts to convert to PAL) Next I figured it was the menus so I changed out the video assets of the menus and transitions to PAL.mov's but they are lower quality and the project still will not switch to PAL.
any ideas before i recreate all of those scripts and menus in PAL?
as a side note just to make sure... Dolby files do not matter right? I dont think i need to make PAL versions of audio.. i couldnt find a way to do it anyway... just wanted to double check that thought.
Thank you.
-bryan

if anyone is wondering... the answer is no... rebuild it from scratch.

Problems with PAL/NTSC Conversion

I have a PAL Sony handycam camcorder and Final Cut Express HD installed on my 2004 iBook G4 (both purchased in North America, if that makes any difference)
- I capture both PAL recorded footage (from my camera) and NTSC recorded
footage (from other cameras) in Final Cut
- Whenever capturing I alter the settings in “Easy Setup” to “DV PAL
firewire basic” or “DV-NTSC Firewire Basic” depending on if I’m using PAL
or NTSC footage at the time
-After capturing, when I drag captured clips from the Browser window down
into the Sequence timeline, every clip has to be rendered in the timeline.
This is very time-consuming (rendering can take up to 10minutes for what
might be a 2minute clip); and this happens regardless of my “easy setup”
settings or the regional code of the footage.
-In addition, after a clip has been rendered once, and I then make an
alteration (usually a cut) the clip has be re-rendered
-Also – when PAL footage is rendered and then exported usually frames are
dropped and the image appears choppy.
- Furthermore (and I suspect this is related) the program will not print
to video; and I have tried using both PAL and NTSC cameras. Therefore I
have to export all projects as quicktime files and then burn DVDs.
- Any suggestions?
Thanks,
Marc Griffin

Hi(Bonjour)!
One important thing: FCE sequences's settings have to match your clip's settings.
If you mix PAL material in a NTSC sequence, your material will need rendering and vice versa.
Secondly: PAL format is a 25 FPS material, and NTSC is a 30 (29.97) one.
So when you convert PAL to NTSC, there is a frame rate mismatch, thus the choppy playback.
Your camcorder cannot record PAL material if it's a NTSC model. You need a plugin that converts PAL material to NTSC.
There is a nice plugin pack from Nattress that performs PAL to NTSC conversion with various pulldown options (ie scalling 30 fps to 24 fps by blending frames selectively).
See:
http://www.nattress.com/Products/standardsconversion/standardsconversion.htm
Final Cut Studio 2 (Final Cut Pro 6) will support multiple resolutions sequences (shipping in may), it's a new great feature.
Michel Boissonneault

Urgent: NTSC project with PAL VOB - weird symptoms

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