Using My Own Modem & Having Voice Service...

I've always used my own modem (Motorola SB6141).  But at my new location I need to have voice service, so Comcast gave me a TC8305C that I really don't like.  How can I use my own SB6141 and still get the voice service?  Is there a stand alone device for voice?

You can use only the TG862 and it would be best to place it in bridge mode so it acts like a plain modem, then you hang your own high quality router behind it just like you do now with the 6141.  If you browse the forums, you will find many posts about poor wi-fi and other networking issues on many of the gateway models.
No real advantage having separates if you bridge the gateway.

Similar Messages

  • New to FiOS, can I use my own modem and router

    I saw several questions similar to mine, but none that I saw answered my question for my scenario. I am sorry if this is a duplicate. I am new to FiOS. I have no other services from Verizon and do not plan to get any. No phone, no television, nothing. Just Internet. God willing, the installation will take place in two days. My house already has coaxial cabling. I have my own cable modem, a SURFboard SB6121, which goes to my router, a TP Link TL-WR941ND. None of my equipment advertises that it is FiOS compatible. I've seen other people asking about using their own modem and router, but in those cases the scenario involved other bundled services, and I understand a FiOS router is necessary to forward ports to television, phone, and computers. However, in my very simple scenario, can the Verizon optical network terminal simply feed its output to my coax, from there to my modem, then router, then comptuers? Is there any reason that wouldn't work? Verizon technical support just gave me a machine that wanted to help me troubleshoot my Internet connection, and I couldn't get from there to a human. Thanks in advance for the help!

    Banish the word and the device called "modem" from your home when using FiOS.  FiOS does not use modems.  Your cable modem is useless with FiOS.  Do not plug it in. FiOS uses routers.  The router connects to the ONT's WAN port using MoCA (coax) or Ethernet.  The installer will enable one of the ONT's WAN ports.  If you order 150Mbps or higher speeds, they will have to use Ethernet.  For slower speeds, coax is the default.  Many installers will use Ethernet if you ask nicely, but usually only if it isn't too much work.  Make sure it's easy to connect a router to the ONT using Ethernet, and you should be okay.  If Ethernet needs to be run through the walls, your best choice is get it done ahead of time.  You can always call later and get the ONT's WAN port switched. The only routers available with a MoCA WAN port are the Verizon models.  The Verizon routers are good devices for most users.  People who like to tweak their networking gear don't like them as many advanced features are limited or locked down.  You can't run any other router firmware on them.  WiFi range is decent, but not great.  I'm quite happy with my Quantum router.  YMMV. If you get Ethernet WAN enabled, you can use any router you want.  However, know that Verizon provides zero support for any other router.  They won't even mention it as an option.  That doesn't mean you can't use one, simply that you must do so without Verizon's help. There are reports that they won't even complete an install without one of their routers to verify service.  If you don't use one of their routers, consider renting one for a month to complete the install or even buying a used one.  If you own a Verizon router, you can install it if you ever suspect Verizon networking issues.  This will allow you to call their support. This FAQ is very helpful:http://www.dslreports.com/faq/16077 Good Luck. 

  • Using own modem and router

    Hi,
    I've decided not to use the home hub 4 and to use my own modem equipments.
    I was told that I only need to enter [email protected] as login name and password as password, then internet should work...
    It is strange because the modem could get an IP from the DNS, but there's no internet connection.
    I already followed the steps here: http://btbusiness.custhelp.com/app/answers/detail/​a_id/258/~/can-i-use-my-own-broadband-modem-or-rou​...
    any ideas?
    thanks
    Solved!
    Go to Solution.

    thanks for your responses.
    yes, I tried different login names and passwords. I knew they worked because the modem managed to detect the upstream and downstream speed, as well as the ip address, DNS server, etc...
    I did a ping check through the modem and it said it worked... strangely, the ADSL loopback check was failed.
    Other settings were UK default, ie. VC, PPPoA, 0,38... I am using a Zyxel P-660R-D1.
    Key thing is I am using a separate modem and router, both of them are high quality equipment because i'll be setting up a server to do cloud storage. Also i prefer not to use all in one model-router coz I think separate equipments just work better.
    So any ideas? Is there anything special about the Homehub that BT isnt telling us, whereas we need HH in order to get on internet??
    Thanks

  • At which service provider could I use my own phone...

    I'm going to the USA for a few months and i would like to know at which service provider I could use my own phone (n95 8GB) on a prepaid package? I already asked Alltel and they said i could not use my phone on their network. I don't want to buy another phone. The phone is unlocked and is quadband so it will work in the USA.
    Nokia N95 8GB V30.0.018 **Kudos are very welcome**

    Maybe T-mobile are a good example. It's also worth noing that they are not a US company and are active in many markets, so they might not have the insular attitude of the US-owned networks (T-mobile actually grew from the German national phone company).
    AT&T are one of the worst offenders for crippling the phones and conning their customers with their customised firmware - a good example of this is disabling the phone's built-in voice-dialling system so that their customers are forced to use their network-based equivelant, for which they charge a subscription fee. 

  • How To Use Your Own Router with Out Loosing Verizon's FIOS Services

    How to use your own router with Verizon’s FIOS Service
    First, you need a basic understanding of how FIOS works but unfortunately there are two types of FIOS systems out there. All of the systems utilize a fiber optic cable to bring TV, phone and internet to your location over one optic cable. In addition these systems provide interactivity including widgets, remote DVR, movies on demand and so forth via an IP (Internet Protocol) signal.  Your STB (Set Tip Box) requires both a video and IP signal. The IP signal is necessary for all of the aforementioned interactivity.  The fiber cable terminates at the Optical Network Terminal or ONT for short.  The ONT converts the optics into a digital signal that can be utilized by ones equipment.  From the ONT your video, phone and internet are provided to the location.  This is where things can differ as the internet signal can be provided via a coaxial (MoCA or Multimedia over Coax Alliance) or RJ45 Cat5 (Ethernet) cable.  It is important to identify and understand the differences of these two setups.  In my case I have my internet entering via Ethernet cable, which in my humble opinion makes things a heck of a lot easier.
    How does one tell the difference? In most cases it’s rather simple; just look at the Verizon’s router WAN (Wide Area Network) Port.  Does it have a RJ45 (Ethernet) or Coax (TV cable Cord) going to it? If the router’s WAN port doesn’t have a coaxial connector then one will need to convert the MoCA signal into a usable Ethernet signal that routers understand. The easiest way is to use Verizon’s router as a bridge. In this method the Verizon’s router simply converts the signal and passes it along to your own router. The challenge is to try to maintain the interactivity that FIOS TV provides. Because of this one needs to supply the IP routed signal back to the FIOS router.  There are multiple methods for doing this and I would recommend investigates which one make the most sense.   
    In my particular case the IP signal was provided by Ethernet.  Again there are various ways of installing one’s own router. The hardest is to utilize Verizon’s router as a bridge.  This setup requires configuring Verizon’s router as a bridge and also creating a VLAN (Virtual Local Area Networks). In addition one needs to set up their own router so it will work with the various routing tables and networks. For me this is too complex for the average person and it can be difficult to trouble shoot if something goes wrong. Please consider that Verizon will not support utilizing third party routers.   
    The easier method is to request an Ethernet signal (if you don’t already have one) from their ONT.  I would highly recommend getting your hands on a NIM or Network Interface Module. This device is used to convert Ethernet to Coaxial so it can be fed back to your STBs.  These can be purchased online and Verizon technicians can be a valuable resource with these sorts of acquisition.  At the very least they can point you to the right direction.  Once you have a NIM the rest is rather simple.
    Log into the current Verizon Router.
    Located the router’s MAC address and copy it down.
    Go to the port forwarding section and copy down the Applied Rules. 
    Example:  
    Network Computer/Device: 192.168.1.100:63145
    Application & Ports Forward:  Application UDP Any -> 6347  
    Note: There may be up to three entries for each one of your Set Top Boxes.
    Look at your current device list, typically found on the home screen. Copy down your STB MAC and IP address.
    Example:
    IP-STB1
    Connection Type: Ethernet
    * IP Address: 192.168.1.100
    IP Address Allocation: DHCP
    *MAC Address:                07:73:fFe:ad:8b:3f
    * Things you will need to write down
    Go to the network section and look for the main Ethernet connection.  Select this and then select more setting, typically found at the bottom. Release the current lease.
    Remove the Verizon router
    Install your router
    Connect the NIM by plugging in an Ethernet from one of the routers LAN (Local Area Network) ports to your NIM. Then connect the coax cable, the same cable that was used by Verizon router.
    Set you DHCP routing IP pool to accommodate Verizon’s STB IP’s  (note their IP’s start at 192.168.1.100)
    Go to DHCP section and reserve the STB IP’s by inserting the IP’s and MAC addresses. This shall ensure that nothing else utilizes the same IPs as the STBs thereby preventing IP address conflict.  
    Add the port forwards from Step 5 above.
    Clone Verizon’s Mac Address utilizing the info from step 2
    Finish setting up the router in typical fashion.
    Unplug and re-plugin your STB’s and test functionality.  It’s best to try using a widget or Movie on demand function.
    Note: if the new router can net get an internet signal contact Verizon’s support and have them release the IP and reset the ONT.  
    EVERYTHING should be working at this point.

     3 Go to the port forwarding section and copy down the Applied Rules. 
    Example:  
    Network Computer/Device: 192.168.1.100:63145
    Application & Ports Forward:  Application UDP Any -> 6347  
    Note: There may be up to three entries for each one of your Set Top Boxes.G
    Your display obviously is not like mine as mine does not dosplay the port associated with the ip address
    whatever, the STB's start at 192.168.1.100 and icement by 1 for each
    the port addr's will be 63145 alo incrementing by 1
    there is 1 entry for each in my pf list
    however each ip addr also has a port entry starting at 35000 also incrementing by 1 for each ip addr
    For some unknow reason these are duplicated e.g I appear to have 11 entries exaactly the same for each stb and as the fios services rules have no action switc there is nowhere to delete the extraneous garbage.
    Why do you clone the mac addr??

  • How long should and Iphone 4S battery last using wifi continuously and having all notofocations and locations services ON and Off???

    1. Hi, How long should and Iphone 4S battery last using wifi continuously and having all notofocations and locations services ON and Off???
    2. What battery percentage should use if I do not make calls all day and wifi is on?
    3. What battery percentage should use if I do not make calls all day and wifi is off?
    4. If I do not have a Sim Card inside my Iphone 4S will the phone use more battery life?
    5. In what time should the iphone normally discharge?
    6. Basically how would i know if my battery is not defective as some people say?

    all your questions are relative to individual use, therefore nobody could give you any definitive answer to any of them.

  • Telephone will no longer let me use my PC modem to...

    Hi NO one at BT has been able to help me with this,
    OK explanation:
    For my work I still use the old modems to dial into remote machines (this caused problems explaning this to BT they kept on talking about my BB hub!). Using an internal modem in my laptop to dial out using the voice part of the BT line.
    You can here the tones of the numbers being dialled, it then handshakes with the modem on the remote machine then the signal just hangs.
    I have had my phone line for over 8 months. I have been able to use modem remote connect the whole time until last week.
    I completed a line check, came up clear. I then called BT. Line check clear. They said the only option is to have an Engineer sent out. Then I got told that it could cost me... etc.
    So booked an engineer then hung up. Got a call 30 mins later... ( during the 30 mins from hanging up I started to fault diagnose the lines in my house) then got told they had done another line check and it now shows a fault! Will it would I was using the line and fault finding on it!! They didn't tell me that they would do another line check.
    Anyway engineer came following day... guess what no lne issues in my house or outside. After 15 calls and 6 hours later I was getting no where on the phone.
    How can I get this looked into!?!?!? It seems the bandwidth on the voice part of the line can't take modem data anymore!
    I have tested my laptop, it works on my lines in 2 different offices it also works at a friends house and they are on BT.Line quality sounds fine on voice calls and BB never drops out.
    1. Why has this stopped?
    2. Why can't BT have a higher level of tech support?
    3. Why just cold transfer me to other departments?
    4. Why send out an engineer when there was no need for one?
    5. Why does the Tech guy I reported this to tell a blatant lie on the system on my records. "noise on phone line" I never said this!!!
    6. Who can I complain too? NO ONE!
    7. How can I get this resolved? NO ONE KNOWS
    All I want is the capability to dial out using pulse dialling via modem again! FROM MY OWN PROPERTY.
    CAN ANYONE AT BT HELP?????

    Welcome to this forum. This is a BT domestic customer to customer help forum, any messages posted here do not go to BT.
    Can you try the modem plugged directly into the master socket without any ADSL filters. You will lose your broadband connection during the test, but it will eliminate any problem with the BT Home hub, or the microfilter.
    ADSL does not start until 30kHz, which is well above the range that an analogue modem works at.
    There are some useful help pages here, for BT Broadband customers only, on my personal website.
    BT Broadband customers - help with broadband, WiFi, networking, e-mail and phones.

  • Installation tomorrow -- want to use my own router with ONT-611

    Tomorrow I am having Verizon FIOS installed (internet only, no TV or phone services).  I've been reading this morning about using my own router, which I would prefer.  Previous owners of the house had FIOS so there is already an ONT-611 hanging off the side of the house, and there is the battery backup box hanging inside the garage.  Also, there is an ethernet cable already ran through the cinderblock wall which hangs inside my garage.
    Now, here's what I've read:
    1. This ONT-611 does not support MoCA
    2. The ethernet port on the ONT-611 only runs at 100mbps
    I have 16 runs of CAT6 in my house which terminates to a rack in my garage which houses a 24-port gigabit switch.  I would like to swing one of those runs over to the existing ethernet cable so I can connect it to my router (a small linux computer which two NICs running shorewall).  I'll have to figure out how to connect those cables (both are male RJ45)... otherwise, will this configuration be supported?
    As I said, I will not have TV services and do not plan to subscribe in the future.  Is there any reason why I would want to go with another configuration (aka use coax and the supplied actiontec?).
    Thank you!

    The link smith6612 provided has good info, but these are some things I can think of, and items I have done.
    I would let Verizon do their supported install with the Actiontec router set up with Ethernet WAN. That is a supported install. This way you have their router should you have issues at a later date, you can put it back to the default configuration. After Verizon leaves, you can configure it as you wish. See if they will extend the cable from the ONT over to your rack. They probably will run a new cable for you. Put the Actiontec at your rack and connect one of its LAN ports to your switch until after the install. Then if you have your Linux PC in close proximity to two of your 16 outlets you could loop two of those those back to your rack. One to the router and one to your switch. Actually you could just use the router as a second switch if you turn off DHCP and connect one LAN port to the ONT and another LAN port to the cable going to your Shorwall's WAN. Many many ways. Shorewall WAN side would need to be configured properly for your ONT and FiOS set up. That is why I say let them do their thing first. Some of the older installs are still using PPPoE and some newer are DHCP. that would make a difference on how you configure your Linux box's WAN if it is directly connected to the ONT VIA the cable or a switch, which could just be the Actiontec without the WAN ports used. If you use the Actiontec as a switch directly off of the ONT, be sure to turn off DHCP and the WiFi first, and only use two lan ports. DON'T pull more than one public IP from the ONT.
    I have had various configurations, and always Ethernet from the ONT. The original ONT 610 did not support MOCA and it had to be bridged from the Actiontec or a NIM-100. I have connected my Linux IP Cop with Dan's Guardian Proxy Filter directly to the ONT and used the Actiontec as a MOCA bridge for my TV services. Right now I have the Actiontec connected directly to the ONT first via Ethernet WAN, and have 2 DVRs, and 2 STBs for the TV. The Actiontec and TVs are considered The DMZ, with my Linux box called the moat. All my workstations and server sit behind the Linux proxy filter firewall. I set fixed IPs on my private network via MAC and DHCP, and the proxy is transparent. With exceptions on the filter for certain computers.
    With my configuration, I can call with any issues and it is supported. Short of my Linux box and PCs. Which I don't want anyone into anyway. I have been thinking of putting the Linux box back in front, so I am not running dual NAT, but I need to have a supported platform for testing and using FiOS features. Thus I put the Actiontec back in front, and my stuff is safer behind the second NAT.

  • I use Garageband 09 to record voice overs via podcasting, female narrator noisy, but keep getting an intermittent clicking sound. It's not the metronome. I have a good quality external USB mic plugged in. Any ideas?

    I use GarageBand 09 to record voice overs via the Podcasting then Female Narrator Noisy utility. I have a good quality external mic plugged in. I keep getting an intermittent clicking sound on the audio track. It's not the metronome as that is turned off. I have to edit out the clicking after recording. I can see the spikes on the waveline. Any ideas how I can prevent this happening?

    Hi again and thanks so much for replying.
    The 'mic jack' on the old mic is both wide and large, measuring about an inch and a quarter from the base (where it comes out of the black encasing) to the edge of the tip (sort of cone shaped). As I can't plug this in directly to any port in the back of the Mac, I thought it might be possible to to buy some sort of adapter so that I could plug in the jack at one end, with a USB connector at the other end to go straight into the Mac. But I see from your comment that you are suggesting a smaller jack itself (i.e., large size jack to small size jack and then plug in to the small round port, instead of jack to USB port)?
    At the Mac shop I bought a USB adapter to connect up a second monitor (screen). I've just dug out the package and it's called a mini display port to VGA adapter. But back to the mic issue, I don't want to use the old mic really, I'm just trying to eliminate whether or not my usual mic, or its USB cable, is at fault and causing the clicking.
    I looked on Amazon for a suitable adapter but there was mention of these little gadgets having a sound card. As the Mac obviously has its own internal sound card, I couldn't see the point of another (exernal) one, unless it was actually required to convert the sound from input to output (playback) or something. One review said sound quality was lost but the person had a problem with his speakers, not a ticking sound while playing back recordings - which is obviously my problem.
    I do have a headset that I used to use for Skype. It has a pink and a green jack. I could plug one into the "headphones symbol' port and try recording again with Garageband. At least the jack is the right size. Again, this is just for the purpose of eliminating whether my good mic on a stand with the anti-popping sheild is at fault.
    While my Mac does have both inbuilt speakers (I don't need external ones) and an inbuilt microphone, the latter is not of a high enough quality for voice overs, hence buying an external mic etc. But whatever is causing the clicking or ticking is obviously affecting the quality of my recordings. As you can imagine, it is very time-consuming to edit out the ticking spikes and if the noise appears during speech, you can't edit it out at all.
    Please keep the suggestions coming. I am determined to get to the bottom of this for my sake and everyone else who is suffering from the same problem!

  • How do I use my own sounds from computer in logic?

    Hello,
    Ok so I'm working with the most recent update of Logic Pro X and I'm having the issue of using my own sounds that i already have inside of a new project on logic. I have a bunch of snares and things already on my computer and I wanted to use them in the software. I know that dragging them into the software doesn't achieve much. I am trying to use them through my maschine mikro. My maschine is already set up as a controller for Logic. My description may be a bit hazy, and if so I'm sorry.

    Check out 'More like this'    >>>>>>>>>>  (Next to your original post).
    There are several references to this problem ... and some ideas.   Always a good place to look.   Don't overlook the links within the posts.

  • How do i use my own domain name with creative cloud?

    how do i use my own domain name with creative cloud?
    i don't want to post web pages from behance.net. i want to use the domain name i have for my material. is there a hosting service for this? if not, can someone give me some pointers so I can publish?
    thanks!!
    Lori

    http://forums.adobe.com/community/behance is where you would ask about publishing to "something else" from that program
    I use OLD Dreamweaver, and upload my HTML with an FTP program to my own web site... I will GUESS you can do that, if you can save HTML to your hard drive to then be able to upload to your web site

  • How to use your own database with your users to authenticate in a Web app?

    Hello, everybody!
    I'm starting to write my first web application and I'm going to use JSF, JPA and EJB3 in this application. One of the first things that I have to do on it is the authentication part where I'll have a page with a user name and a password for the user to login. So, as I'm new to all this in Java (I've already implemented this on .NET in the past), I was studying the Java EE 5 Tutorial, especifically the section "Example: Using Form-Based Authentication with a JSP Page". But I saw that the users that the sample application uses come from the file realm on the Application Server. The users are created there and assigned a name, a password and a group. After the users are in the Application Server we can simply uses forms authentication declaratively in the deployment descriptor (web.xml).
    But the problem is that this doesn't work to me as I already have my own database with my users, so I want to use it instead of having to create the users on the Application Server.
    So, I'm asking you how to do that. Of course I'm not expecting that you place the code here to me as I know that such a thing could be complicated. Instead, I'm asking if you know about some tutorial, article, book or something that teaches how to do what I want. But I would like to see theses examples using JSF and/or EJB3 because these are the technologies that I'm using to develop. It's a pity that the Java EE 5 Tutorial doesn't have an example using a custom database as I know that this situation is very common in the majority of web sites.
    Thank you very much.
    Marcos

    From memory, it goes like this... You just create a
    raw jdbc connection on your user database using a
    special "login" DB user account, which has
    permissions only to an "authenticate" stored query,
    which accepts two arguments: username & password, and
    returns a boolean 0 or 1 rows found.When I implemented this in .NET's ASP.NET I had the same solution. I had an special user created in the database that I used to log in. When the real user entered his username and password I was already logged in and I had just to check his username and password agains the right table in my database.
    But that was only possible bacause when I connected to the database using my hidden user, I used the rights APIs in ASP.NET that coordinate the authentication process. This means that before login in, no one could access any resources (pages, atc...). So what I'm saying is that I can't manager this manually in Java. Java has to have some API or whatever to allow me to control the login process programmatically, while letting the Application Server control the access to the resources.

  • Someone is using my personal email address for their apple ID and I'm sick of it! I can't sign up for my own itunes account or anything using MY OWN email address. My email address is my property, not theirs.

    Someone is using my personal email address for their apple ID and I'm sick of it! I can't sign up for my own itunes account or anything using MY OWN email address. My email address is my property, not theirs.
    I'm using their account and will continue to reset their password and settings until they either get the message or Apple do something about it and disable or migrate their account so that I can use MY OWN email address for my own purposes.
    I don't want to be informed about Apple products and services for someone else on my email account.
    I want to be able to use it MYSELF for iTunes
    All I am asking you to do is migrate their apple ID to their alternate email account settings and free up my email address so that:
    A. I can use it and B. I stop getting messages about their account history.
    Either that or just cancel their account as they have no right to use my personal details.
    Yes I could set up a new email address but WHY THE **** should I? I've been using this email account for years for personal stuff, it's not mu fault if someone can sign it up as an AppleID without me being able to confirm their sign up process!
    Your move Apple, make it count.

    Hi Sister Kate,
    If you change the Apple ID you are using on an iPhone or other iOS device, there are several places you need to change it on the device. See this article -
    Apple ID: What to do after you change your Apple ID
    Thanks for using Apple Support Communities.
    Best,
    Brett L 

  • HT4759 How can i delete an old iCloud account and start using my own using my Apple ID? If I don't have the old password??

    How can i delete an old iCloud account and start using my own using my Apple ID? If I don't have the old password??

    If your device is signed into an old iCloud ID that is an earlier version of the ID you want to sign in with, do the following:
    If you are using iMessage and FaceTime, make sure you are signed into these services with your current ID.  If they are signed into the old ID, go to Settings>Messages>Send & Receive and Settings>FaceTime, tap the ID, sign out, then sign back in with your current ID.
    Then temporarily recreate the old ID by going to https://appleid.apple.com, click Manage my Apple ID and sign in with your current iCloud ID.  Click edit next to the primary email account, change it back to your old email address and save the change.  (You should not have to verify the old email account so it doesn’t matter if you no longer have access to it.)  Now go to Settings>iCloud, turn off Find My iDevice and enter your current password when prompted (even though it prompts you for the password for your old ID).  Then save any photo stream photos that you wish to keep to your camera roll (unless you are using iCloud Photo Library).  When finished go to Settings>iCloud, tap Sign Out (or Delete Account if you are not running iOS 8) and choose Delete from My iDevice when prompted (your iCloud data will still be in iCloud).  Next, go back to https://appleid.apple.com and change your primary email address back to the way it was.  Now you can go to Settings>iCloud and sign back in with your current iCloud ID and password (your data will download back to your device).

  • Use your own iOS app on your own iOS device without buying a developer program.

    This is no question; it is simply a request that you make it possible for people with the free developer program to use their own iOS apps that they built themselves without having to pay $99 a year.
    This is because loads of people want to build small apps for themselves, and can do so easily now that Xcode is free on the AppStore. The main problem with this is that they have to pay to simply do this.
    So this is in a way a petition for all you people who are the same; who have written your own iOS apps for your personal use only, apps that shall not be distributed and only serve to show what you can do or help a family game to get Apple to make this small thing possible for you (us).
    So please post here if you want the same.
    Thank you.

    As always, feel free to use Report a Bug for any samples, doc additions, feature requests or enhancements you'd like to see as well. Add your BR# to this thread for reference, thanks.
    But I wouldn't hold my breath on this one....it would only result in immediate scams.

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