Virtual Copy & Collections

Hello,
i have organized my pictures in collections. When i create a virtual copy of a picture and drag it to the collection the picture-count of the collection is increased by 1 but the virtual copy wont show up in the collection.
- Is there a way to create a virtual copy of a picture an assign it to an colletion?
- Is there a way to filter / search for virtual copys?
Thank you
elessar

You have to assign it to a collection at the time of creation while it is selected post creation (whether one or a group).
AFAIK there is no filter for VCs at the moment. A work around would be to assign all VCs a color (assuming you won't want that color for other uses) and filter on that color.
Don
Don Ricklin, MacBook 1.83Ghz Duo 2 Core running 10.4.9 & Win XP, Pentax *ist D
http://donricklin.blogspot.com/

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Virtual copy in a smart collection does not show up in that collection

LR5; When I make a virtual copy in a smart collection it does not show up in that collection but in the original folder...
All of the metadata and custom fields are identical....

The screenshot was very helpful. The problem is with the Custom 05 custom metadata field. Which plugin defined that?
It appears that smart collections don't properly search the custom metadata fields of virtual copies. I filed a bug report in the official Adobe feedback forum: Lightroom: Smart collections don't correctly search custom metadata fields.
You could work around this by using a filter preset in the Library Filter bar. Perhaps not as convenient, but it would get the job done.

Virtual Copy problem in Collections

Sometimes, but not always, when I create a Virtual Copy in a Collection, the Virtual Copy will not appear in the Collection, but it will appear next to the file in its folder.

I have not seen that. When I create a virtual copy including a soft proof copy in a collection, so far they have all appeared. Of course, if I make a virtual copy in a folder, it will not show up in a collection unless I put it there. iMac, OS 10.6.8.

Is there a simple way to drag new virtual copy to a collection?

I've searched multiple times for a hint on how to do this, but always come up empty, perhaps I'm not searching correctly; apologies if this is obvious, well known or asked all the time:
In Windows Lightroom (3.5 at the moment), if I select one or more images and then, on the left, right click and create a new collection, I'm given the option of creating new virtual copies of the selected images for inclusion in the new collection. I use this all the time.
However, once the collection is created, I've not found a simple, one-step method to add virtual copies of additional images to that collection. Best I've come up with is the three step process: create a virtual copy, drag the virtual copy to the collection, and then remove the virtual copy from the folder/collection where I created it. It would be far cooler if there was, say, a keyboard shortcut, e.g. alt-click-drag or something, that would do this all in one step. Is there such a method?
Thanks.

You can right click on the collection and make it a target collection. Then each time you create a virtual copy simply hit the B key to add it. No need to drag.
Remember to switch your target when finished by right-clicking Quick Collection.

Deleting a virtual copy from a collection

Hi!
I just tried to implement a workflow based on collections and sometimes virtual copies instead of folders. But I ran into a problem quickly: I found no way to delete a virtual copy directly from a collection. Here is what I tried to do:
- packing each shooting in a separate folder (like before)
- creating a new Collection Set for this shooting and inside this one Collection "all" where I put all photos in
- creating other Collections for the tasks that I need e.g. "print", "blog", "photobook for parents", ...
Then my idea was to use only virtual copies in these task-Collections. Creating the copies and working with them works great, as I expected. Only one little problem came out:
- When I look to the old folder, all virtual copies are shown there -- and counted. So the displayed number of photos is nearly useless to me. Hasn't that been different in LR1 or 2?! Is there a way to change this behaviour?
But this is not the main problem. The main problem is:
- When I decide not to use a photo from a task (which is removing the virtual copy from the collection), I found no way to *delete* the virtual copy. It is only *removed* from the collection. So I have lots of unused dead virtual copies in the original folder (which makes the displayed number even more useless).
I found one complicate workaround: Not deleting the virtual copy, but marking it with "x" as "abgelehnt" (forgot the english word, sorry :-) and later deleting all marked photos.
But even if I try hard, I will forget this sometimes.
So is there at least a way to show all virtual copies, which are not in a collection?
I found ways to either make a filter or a smart collection with only virtual copies. And I can right-click on each and look in the submenu "go to collection..." to see whether is is member of a collection. But I found no way to make this with a smart collection, because the option "not empty" is not available for the collection field.
I just found the very very complicate solution:
- go to the folder, delete the "keep" flag from all virtual copies
- set the "keep" flag on all photos
- go to each collection and set the "keep" flag on all copies (or photos)
- deleting all copies without the keep flag
This will of course also delete all virtual copies which are used in collections which I forgot to choose.
So I would like one of two things:
- an option "delete virtual copies if removed from a collection and not member of another collection"
- or a filter/smart collection way of showing virtual copies which are not member of any collection
At the moment, I think I will keep my old workflow which was to work with folders and snapshots. Which is also by no means free of drawbacks. Hmm, then again, when comparing: My old workflow has the risk of loosing work (when changing anything without having made a snapshow), but the new workflow has only the disadvantage of having garbage and of not knowing the number of real photos... sounds better maybe ;-)
But maybe there is a solution for my problems?!?! Help please ;-)
Greetings, Joerg

I found no way to delete a virtual copy directly from a collection.
Ctrl+Alt+Chift+Delete.
Hasn't that been different in LR1 or 2?!
No.
Is there a way to change this behaviour?
No. But if you say, you have an "all" collection in your shoot set, you can see the number there. Why judge the count from the folder? You can also use the Library Filter to filter by negatives and/or virtual copies. You can use smart collections somehow, to filter out VCs.
So is there at least a way to show all virtual copies, which are not in a collection?
Create a smart collection with the following rules:
Copy name contains "copy"
and
Collection does not contain "a e u i o"
an option "delete virtual copies if removed from a collection and not member of another collection"
Use the SC above, select all, and hit Ctrl+Alt+Shift+Delete.
- or a filter/smart collection way of showing virtual copies which are not member of any collection
Same as above.

Virtual Copy Not Added To Current Collection

I'm looking at a standard (not smart) collection of images. I want to create a virtual copy and have that copy automatically become a part of the collection I'm looking at. This was the standard behavior in LR2. Under LR3 I have to create a virtual copy, go out to "all photographs", grab the image and drop it into the collection, go back to the collection, and from that point I can continue editing. What a round trip! Any tips?
Thanks!

Thanks for all the tips.
I think I've figured out why the behavior isn't quite what I expected. Here's the structure of my collection:
>Weddings {collection set}
     >My Photography {collection set} (to separate work I do for other photogs)
          >John & Mary Wedding {collection set}
               >Me {collection} (to separate images shot by me at the wedding)
               >Second {collection} (to separate images shot by my second)
I spend most of my time sorting, rating, and editing from the "John & Mary Wedding" collection set. This way I can see all images shot by my team in chronological order, but when I create a virtual copy from this location it only appears in "all images" and is not associated with any collection. Th8is makes sense I suppose since images cannot be in a collection set, only a collection.
So now that I've identified what I'm doing wrong, can anyone suggest a workaround or a better way to organize the images? I like being able to keep individual photogs separate. It may seem nit-picky, but I'd rather not have to jump back and forth between collections while working. I'm dealing with too many images.
Thanks in advance.

What's the point of a virtual copy if it can't be in a different folder from the master?

When I spotted "Make virtual copy" on the context menu, I thought "Great - I can organize my photos in different ways without wasting disk space by using aliases!"
But when I tried to move the virtual copy to another folder, LR said Nope!
So I moved the master - and the copy moved with it.
What am I missing? I've seen the reference to Smart Collections, but they seem to be based on ratings or flags, not arbitrary subject-matter groupings.
So I created a "dumb collection" (my term, in distinction from the automatic groupings), made virtual copy and copied the virtual copy to the collection.
Then I then went back to the original folder and deleted the virtual copy from the original folder.
It vanished from the collection as well.
Is a virtual copy merely a way to make and save an alternative edit of a photo - but only in the same folder as the original?

A virtual copy is virtual. It is a record of the processing settings you made held in the database. LR never makes changes to the original files and does not create copies of original files (except on import if you so choose). A new file is created on export with the processing settings recorded in the database. The folder structure is irrelevant to LR other than LR needs to know where the file is on your computer.A virtual copy does not make an actual copy anywhere on your hard drive. It takes up no space as it is just a few lines of metadata recorded in the catalog. Hence virtual copy.
The point is that you may require several different versions of the same image file, different crops, different processing settings etc. These can all be recorded in the catalog and when you require the particular version you export it. On export it can be sent anywhere you like.
I would suggest you have a look at the LR manual through the help system (press F1 when LR is open) and have a look at some of the video tutorials in order to understand the basics of LR

LR 1.4 Virtual Copy Stopped Working...

or did it?
What I usually do is click on the photo I want to make a virtual copy of, right click on the pic, click on 'create virtual copy' and--viola--virtual copy appears.
Not this time!
Now I get a grey slate screen and the message "no photo selected".
But when I go into Library, I get a little icon on the pic telling me it is 1 of 5 in the upper left hand corner.
Where did the copies go?
They're not in Develop. Or anywhere else for that matter.
This used to work so easily....
Sigh.

They must be somehow filtered out. Are you in a folder or a collection or
smart collection? Any filters on?
UPDATE:
Doh... Sorry, Lightroom 1. No filters and no smart collections. Just the Metadata browser.

Can't make virtual copy

I am unable to create a virtual copy of photos in just one of my Collections. Try to make a virtual copy results in "no photo selected" in navigator. I switched to another Collection and had no problem. Any ideas?

Bill, Lightroom 2.3 is so much better than Lightroom 2.0 or 1.x for the vast majority of Lightroom users that it's worth the trouble. I don't blame you for being reluctant to go through an 18 hour download, but it's definitely the thing to try. Do you have a friend, or workplace, with broadband access who can download it for you in a minute or two and put it on a USB key, or burn it to a CD? As you probably know, it will install as a free upgrade and link itself automatically to your LR 2.0 key, even if it's downloaded on another PC, once it's installed to yours.
I also see, now that the other two threads I was referring to pop on the right of this display under "More Like This".

Virtual Copy Trouble

Im not sure if the problems with Virtual Copy have been reported with Win XP SP 2, but here goes.
1. The only times where Virtual Copy works as described is when using Library>All Photographs or Folders. When restricting the view with these two options, VC works just as documented.
2. Using Keyword Tags, either nested or not, or the Metadata Browser, only the original is shown when a visual copy is created.
3. Except in the case of (1) above, the VC is not shown when added to to the Quick Collection.
Since Visual Copies is such an important concept, this is a major bug. If not here, where should this situation be reported?
Wil

1.2. You can create a VC anywhere, but it will only stack while in the library or folders. If left unstacked you will see it any part of the Library, but not be able to stack/unstack unless you return to the Lib/folders. Stacking is not abled in any other part of the Library, although heavily requested.

Virtual Copy Location

For some reason when I create a virtual copy of an image, the image will either appear next to the original image or it will create the image and move it to the top of the collection (which happens most of the time). Anyone know how to prevent the image from going to the top of the collection? Thank you!

Change the sort order for the collection. If it's set to something that is different for the VC and the original, then the VC will show up somewhere else in the Grid--either at the beginning or the end.
Hal

[Help] Export or copy a virtual copy from one library to a different library?

Hi all,
I need to be able to extract or export a virtual copy (VC) from one library to an other library. The same image that the VC depend on is represented in both libraries but since a friend will be editing some images on his computer and therefor his library I need to be able to import the different VC he makes to my library later on or perhaps merge since he needs the VC I make.
So please, can someone tell me how to do this. If we only make some editing of a RAW we just save the metadata and we are done, but with VC it is different.
Thanks in advance!

Use File > Export as Catalog in the current catalogue, and use File > Import from Catalog
Ask yourself if it's really a smart idea to (a) work with multiple catalogues, and (b) catalogue the same picture in more than one catalogue. As you've found, working with multiple catalogues introduces inefficiencies like trying to copy VCs around, while cataloguing the same image in more than one catalogue is a recipe for confusion.Maybe you should be asking how to resolve the underlying workflow problem?
John

Bug or User Error - Virtual Copy

All,
I'm still on 1.3.1 (still too much dust flying on 1.4.1), Mac OS X 10.4. The situation is as follows: Took a standard RAW image file from Canon 40D.
1. Made a virtual copy of the original, crop aspect set to 8x10, made adjustments, etc. including some spot removal, etc.
2. Made a virtual copy of the virtual copy, converted to Grayscale, "assumed" the crop value and spot removals came with it. Instead, the second virtual copy is showing up with a crop value of 4x5 and the spots removed in the first virtual copy, return.
It is very repeatable, and not associated with a specific image file. I haven't tried it on Windows XP yet.
Jay S.

Hal,
I've been doing a little more with this. In Develop module, if I make a Virtual Copy of an image where I've used a Metadata preset to add some data to the image, that metadata preset is refected in the virtual copy as well, if I do the same exact thing with the same exact image in Library mode, the metadata is set to None, as opposed to the Preset I used with the original.
I know this is different from what I originally stated but seems odd. Also I'm not sure why you don't consider it a bug, small as it may be. I set the original to 8x10, if I wanted the lower ratio of 4x5, I would have set it to that. If 8x10 didn't matter to Adobe then why have it as an option. In my mind the Virtual Copy should reflect the same choice made on the original.
Jay S.

How can you create a virtual copy in a Lightroom plugin?

I looked over the Lightroom SDK and did not see any documentation on creating a virtual copy. Is there an undocumented API for this?
If not, is there a plan to add this into the SDK?

Hi Matt,
Yeah, I have some good news and some bad news:
- Good news: Keyboard stuffing (as implemented in the elare framework) works equally well on both platforms, provided the appropriate keystroke exists on both platforms.
(Mac version uses applescript, Windows uses autohotkey - both assure Lightroom is the target) - Note: @2011-07-30, I haven't actually tested this particular function on Mac - but I've tested other similar functions on both platforms.
- Bad news: It doesn't always work on either platform, since keystrokes may be usurped by open dialog boxes and open text fields in Lightroom...
- Good news: failure is 100% detectable.
Bottom line:
If the kludgy nature of this solution would be more bad than good for you and/or your users, then this is not a viable solution.
If your users would prefer the caveats in order to be able to get the job, then this solution will work well enough for now.
PS - I'm presently using it in ChangeManager and its a godsend for me. Since I understand the limitations, my failure rate is appx. 0%.
~R

Is it possible to save the adjusted virtual copy image and discard the original?

I have made a virtual copy of an image which I then adjusted in LR to the way I want to keep it. Now I am wondering either if there is a way to apply those adjustments easily to the original so I can then discard the virtual copy, or should I save the virtual copy and delete the original? I just don't need two images, one which is not a keeper. I also don't want to delete the original if the virtual copy depends upon its existence.
I want to keep images down to the one's I want and am working to delete those images which I will never use. Whichever is the best way to handle the above situation will enable me to do some much needed housekeeping to my catalog.
TIA,
Ken

You guys are pretty slick, no two ways about it. I think I'm learning Lightroom, but I'm just happy with it helping in my own situation. Some of you have far-reaching understanding of this wonderful program. Lightroom is a 'must' as I see it.
Ian, I've tried your method, as it seems easiest and most direct, I selected the VC and chose the menu item 'make copy original' and it did a 'conversion' or so it looked like, but the images still say 1 of 2 for the original with no modifications and 2 of 2 for the cropped and adjusted version. I am skeerd to delete the '1 of 2' version which I believe 'was' the original version before I chose the menu item. Now I'm not sure what I have.
Hal P Anderson, I tried your method and it did transfer the settings but not the crop, which I can understand why. I re-cropped the 1 of 2 to match the 2 of 2 version which is the virtual copy, and then selected the virtual copy and hit delete - the dialog box confirmed I was deleting the VC by asking if I wanted to delete this virtual copy. I felt more comfortable with that arrangement and now I'm sans VC with the original possessing the new settings.
Thanks to you both,
Ken

Virtual Copy & Collections

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