W510/W520 FHD, color profile supplied by Lenovo is wrong (sRGB clone, not wide gamut)

Hi!
I think I discovered a problem with the monitor profile for Thinkpad 95% gamut FHD LCDs:
The "TPLCD95.icm" monitor profile for FHD 95% gamut LCDs seems to be just a copy of the default sRGB profile. Thus it is likely not a calibrated representation of these screens!
This defect has been there since version 4.33 and is still in the latest version 4.35 of the "Monitor file for Windows 7 (32-bit,64-bit), Vista (32-bit,64-bit), XP (32-bit,64-bit) and 2000 - ThinkPad" package, http://www-307.ibm.com/pc/support/site.wss/document.do?lndocid=MIGR-62923
In contrast, the "TPLCD60.ICM" and "TPLCD100.ICM" files of other screen types appear to be proper. Lenovo should provide a similarly produced "TPLCD95.ICM" file and update the drivers! (For the poor people without built-in color sensor.)
Some proof for the unconvinced why the "TPLCD95.icm" profile is not proper (just an sRGB clone):
* The RGB colorants are exactly the same in the "TPLCD95.icm" and "sRGB Color Space Profile.icm" files, e.g. gXYZ = 0.385,0.717,0.097. (In "TPLCD100.ICM" the gXYZ colorant is 0.226,0.680,0.094 and in "AdobeRGB1998.icc" it is 0.205,0.626,0.061.)
* The tone repro curves of "TPLCD95.icm" and "sRGB" are both 1024 elements and identical for rTRC, gTRC and bTRC. (In the "TPLCD100.ICM" file it consists of only 9 points, presumably measured, and there are different curves for R, G and B.)
* The suffix of "TPLCD95.icm" file is in lowercase letters, indicating that it was made in a different workflow than the "TPLCD100.ICM" and "TPLCD60.ICM files". Also the file sizes are very different.
* By experiment: Set the monitor profile to "TPLCD95.icm" and open an image in Windows Photo Viewer (for example the Chrysanthemum.jpg image from the Sample Pictures folder in Win7). Then repeat with sRGB as monitor profile, you'll get the same color. Repeat with "TPLCD100.ICM" to get a reduced gamut, as expected from a wide gamut profile. That's how "TPLCD95.icm" should be too, except of course calibrated for the 95% gamut LCD not 100% RGBLED.
In the meanwhile, could anyone with a sensor calibrated W510/W520 95% gamut FHD screen care to share their ICM/ICC file?
Yours,
Mikael Sterner

As a workaround, I can suggest the excellent QuickMonitorProfile tool by Eberhard Werle: http://quickgamma.de/QuickMonitorProfile/indexen.html
It can create a profile just based on the rgb chromaticities, white point and gamma in the EDID information from the monitor. On my W520 FHD it reads out rxy=0.676/0.314, gxy=0.215/0.665, bxy=0.141/0.069, wp=D65, gamma=2.2. This matches what is in the LCD panel datasheet: http://www.notebook-lcd.ru/pdf/B156HW01_V_4.pdf
The created synthetic profile is better than nothing, and is the minimum what Lenovo should have included.

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    When I tried to import the photo again, iphoto says the jpgs are unreadable.  So, after hours of frustration, I realized iphoto doesn't seem to be supporting the color profile: OS14000_A2_B8_oG.   When I used Adobe Lightroom 5 (Imported all first) to export as jpg (batch export) and removed the color profile (it then defaults to sRGB), the pictures  were able to be imported into iphoto and were visible at full size.
    To make a long story short, it seems that apple didn't provide support for this color profile with iphoto 9.5.  Which is interesting, because they used to support it in iphoto 11.
    Any ideas how I can save the work I have done on these photos:  descriptions, face recognition, etc. without having to reimport jpgs with new color profile? 
    It would seem simple for apple to support the color profile and continue to do so.  This foreshadows the slow removal of support for older file format and color profiles as software is upgraded.  Will the photos in our iphoto library be visible in 10 years without conversions and reimporting?  This is a concerning precedent.

    Not what but who. That would be me.  Keith is referring to this Applescrip: Embed sRGB Profile-Applescript, that you can download from  Toad's Cellar.  However, I've found it doesn't work on all files and have created an Automator workflow that is more reliable:  Convert to JPG and Embed sRGB profile.
    Both are on Toad's Cellar and you can try both.  They will have to be applied to the image files outside of iPhoto before importing into iPhoto.
    Happy Holidays

  • Color profile (sRGB Vs. Adobe RGB)

    Hello,
    As I am struggling with choosing the 'right' color profile for my photo's (either sRGB or Adobe RGB) I was wondering what your opinion of this subject is. I have searched the internet for the information about this subject, but the forums/answers/information couldn't give me enough satisfaction.
    For editing photo's I am using Adobe Photoshop, for my library I use iPhoto. Some photo's are uploaded to sites as www.facebook.com. Sometimes I order a photo book via iPhoto.
    Because there are pros and cons for both sRGB and Adobe RGB I am not sure which profile I have to choose. I would like to choose one format, since this will standardize my library.
    Looking forward to your opinion.
    Best Regards,
    Jelle

    Larry & Terence,
    Did you do any on-screen testing or proofing? All modern browsers support ICC profiles and should show improvement with Adobe RGB in certain color ranges (NOT just Facebook).
    Apple products aren't "designed" for sRGB. sRGB is a standard developed by Hewlett Packard and Microsoft (and I think we all can agree those aren't Apples best friends). sRGB is the default for most Cameras and SmartPhones, that doesn't mean it's the best.
    Most monitors sold in the last 5 years have wider gamut support than the sRGB.
    Article "Can the entire sRGB color gamut be displayed on today's LCD monitors?"
    http://ninedegreesbelow.com/photography/srgb-bad-working-space-profile.html
    "sRGB was created to match the display characteristics of consumer-grade CRT monitors manufactured in the1990s." "LCDs use a completely different technology to make colors..." "All wide gamut monitors by definition can show more greens, yellows, and cyans than sRGB."
    Apple even suggests "Adobe RGB offers a wider gamut than sRGB, and is usually a better choice, if available." in this article:
    http://support.apple.com/kb/ht2026
    iPhoto 6 and newer have support for ColorSync profiles, older versions may not work with Adobe RGB and could cause the color to look worse. If a profile isn't present, or isn't supported iPhoto assigns Camera RGB. Complaints about "dark" color from iPhoto are more than 5 years old.

  • Color profile problems and text issues

    hello all!
    recently, after installing the java update i ran across some permissions problems when doing a permissions repair.
    these java permissions seem to be the result of database updates and are fairly innocuous.
    however, since then, my color profiles are screwed up. things look horrible. some pictures are fine, some bad. at first i thought it was just safari, but it's system wide. i've tried repairing permissions again but to no effect. i've downloaded the profiles from adobe and copied them into the profiles directory in library. no effect.
    some profiles show up twice on the list. when i select, for instance, the second listing, the selection moves to the first listing. do you follow?
    when i run the profile first aid this is what i get:
    Searching for profiles...
    Checking 88 profiles...
    /Library/Application Support/Adobe/Color/Profiles/DCDM_X'Y'Z'.icc
    Tag 'A2B1': Required tag is not present.
    Tag 'B2A1': Required tag is not present.
    Tag 'A2B2': Required tag is not present.
    Tag 'B2A2': Required tag is not present.
    Tag 'gamt': Required tag is not present.
    The file is locked. Could not be fixed.
    /Library/Application Support/Adobe/Color/Profiles/DCI_P3.icc
    Tag 'A2B1': Required tag is not present.
    Tag 'B2A1': Required tag is not present.
    Tag 'A2B2': Required tag is not present.
    Tag 'B2A2': Required tag is not present.
    Tag 'gamt': Required tag is not present.
    The file is locked. Could not be fixed.
    /Library/ColorSync/Profiles/EW-sRGB
    Tag 'desc': Tag size is not correct. Could not be fixed.
    /Library/ColorSync/Profiles/EPSON Perfection1250
    Tag 'dmnd': Tag size is not correct. Could not be fixed.
    Tag 'dmdd': Tag size is not correct. Could not be fixed.
    /Library/ColorSync/Profiles/EPSON Perfection1250 TPU
    Tag 'dmnd': Tag size is not correct. Could not be fixed.
    Repair done - 0 out of 5 profiles fixed.
    any suggestions would be most welcome. possibly help on reverting to the earlier java would be nice..don't know if that'll help but it started back then.
    thank you!
    cheers,
    sean

    okay, a boot up into safe mode and everything looks great, the way it should. everything looks awesome in another user account too.
    so, it user specific. i've discovered these issues affect safari and not firefox. images in ff look fine.
    if there are font or profile issues, how do i go about finding what might be broken in my main user account?
    can i just transfer everything to a new user account? what are the steps involved?
    thanks again for any help!

  • Printed images...sRGB vs. iMac color profile / iPhoto vs. PSE...

    Hello – I have searched the various forums available, found a wealth of information on the subject, and then became even more confused. So, here goes:
    The question is in regards to color profiles on my display vs. color profiles embedded in the printed image.
    I have my display set to iMac Color Profile (or should I use the sRGB Profile, which gives the display a coolor, or more bluish overall tint), and then in PSE I have sRGB embedded. When I make a print going through PSE, the colors look good and overall is a pleasant image. When I take the same image and save it into iPhoto and then print it, the overall image is slightly darker and the colors a little more saturated. Overall, another pleasant image, just slightly different.
    So, I suppose my question is: what is iPhoto doing that makes the printed image a bit more saturated? How should I have my colors on the display set?
    Thanks.

    Printer_Rick wrote:
    sRGB is Adobe's default RGB color space. It is the standard for world wide web. It is used by Pantone. In short it is the RGB profile most commonly encountered
    I will re-iterate it's not my working RGB space, I don't care for it, I don't consider it ideal for CMYK conversion.
    The idea that sRGB is the most common profile is a misconception.That profile was created to simulate an uncalibrated enviroment (monitor).Thats why if you use Photoshop function "Save for Web" it converts to sRGB then strips profile information.And this is only because until recently most web browsers didnt have any Color Management.I know Firefox has but the others until recently didnt (might be diferent know thought).
    If its used by Pantone or not I dont know,but if it is I would like to know why and for what purpose cause it doesnt make any sense...
    Its not ideal for any print (CMYK convertion) since it's very narrow gamut will most probably clip many satured colors.
    The only good thing about it (besides being a grey balanced profile) is that you can be sure the person you send it too will not see many variations (shifts) in color from what youre seing on your calibrated monitor using Photoshop or any other ICC aware aplication.Thats why I always send previews of work in sRGB, because most of the time people that have to evaluate it dont even bother to open them in Photoshop,they use e-mail programs or browsers,let alone calibrated/profiled monitors.
    I think the idea behind making it default is just that,being on the safe side.People that are aware of that ussually change it unless theyre working mainly for the Web.
    This and much more you can find on the links about Bruce Fraser.He made great contributions to make people aware of Color Management.
    Hope this helps.
    Especificaly u can read this one:
    http://www.creativepro.com/article/out-of-gamut-getting-a-handle-on-color-management
    Images on examples are self-explanatory.

  • Location of color profiles?

    I have color profiles listed in Aperture as choices that are not in the library>color sync>profiles folder. I would like to delete the ones I no longer use. Is this possible? Where are they located?
    Thanks,
    Jacob

    They can be an a bunch of different locations under /System/Library, /Library and /Users/username/Library - the easiest way to figure out what and where they are and manipulating them is to use ColorSync Utility. Click on the profiles tab and then the profile name - it will list it's location.
    You can then go there in finder and do what you wish.
    RB

  • Correct export color space for wide gamut monitors.

    Running a photography studio I have 4 typical scenarios of how clients or end users will see my photo work.  I create and edit the photos using LR 3 on a HP 2475w (wide gamut) monitor.  I'm aware that there are color shifts, but trying to figure out which export color space to use to be most consistent.
    A) Wide Gamut monitor using color managed software or browser such as Firefox.
    B) Wide Gamut monitor NOT using color managed software such as IE 8.
    C) Standard monitor using color managed software or browser such as Firefox.
    D) Standard monitor NOT using color managed software such as IE 8.
    A) gives the best results and that's what I run myself.  No matter the color space that I export (sRGB, aRGB, or my custom calibrated ICC) the images appear to be correct 100%
    B) gives mixed results...the hosting site for my photos seems to oversaturate a bit when I view the photos in their preview size which is what my clients see, when I view the original photo in full resolution (this feature disabled for my clients to avoid them downloading full rez copies of images), then the images appears a bit dull (70%).  When I try this same scenario using aRGB export, it looks better (90-95%).  When I export it using my monitor profile then the photo is spot on 100% however my monitor profile shows the photo incorrectly when viewing it using the standard Windows Vista photo viewer, it appears lighter and less saturated which I guess I expect since it's not color managed.
    C) On a standard monitor the photos all look the same regardless of color space export so long as I use a color managed browser such as Firefox.
    D) This gives pretty much the same breakdown of results as scenario B above.  At the moment, it appears that when I use my custom ICC profile which is the calibration of my monitor...I get the best web results.
    However my custom ICC profile gives me the worst local results within my windows viewer and when my clients load the photos on their machines, no doubt they will look just as bad on theirs regardless of which monitor they use.  So aRGB seems to be the best choice for output.  Anyone else do this?  It's significantly better when viewing in IE on both Wide Gamut and Standard LCD's when compared to sRGB.
    I would guess that my typical client has a laptop with Windows and they will both view the photos locally and upload them on the web, so it needs to look as close to what it looks like when I'm processing it in LR and Photoshop as possible.  I know that a lot of people ask questions about their photos being off because they don't understand that there's a shift between WG and non-WG monitors, but I get that there's a difference...question is which color space export has worked best for others.

    I am saying that since images on the internet are with extremely few
    exceptions targeted towards sRGB. It is extremely common for those images to
    not contain ICC profiles even if they really are sRGB. If they do not
    contain ICC profiles in the default mode in Firefox, Firefox (as well as
    Safari btw, another color managed browser), will not convert to the monitor
    profile but will send the image straight to the monitor. This means that on
    a wide gamut display, the colors will look oversaturated. You've no doubt
    seen this on your display, but perhaps you've gotten used to it. If you
    enable the "1" color management mode, Firefox will translate every image to
    the monitor profile. This will make the colors on your display more
    realistic and more predictable (since your monitor's very specific
    properties no longer interfere and the image's colors are displayed as they
    really are) for many sites including many photographic ones. This is most
    important on a wide gamut display and not that big of a deal on a standard
    monitor, which usually is closer to sRGB.
    It seems you are suggesting that for a wide-gamut display it is better to
    try using your own monitor's calibration profile on everything out there,
    assuming on images posted with a wider gamat it will get you more color
    range while there would be nothing lost for images posted in sRGB.
    Indeed. The point of color management is to make the specific
    characteristics of your monitor not a factor anymore and to make sure that
    you see the correct color as described in the working space (almost always
    sRGB on the web). This only breaks down when the color to be displayed is
    outside of the monitor's gamut. In that case the color will typically get
    clipped to the monitor's gamut. The other way around, if your original is in
    sRGB and your monitor is closer to adobeRGB, the file's color space is
    limiting. For your monitor, you want to make the system (Firefox in this
    case) assume that untagged files are in sRGB as that is what the entire
    world works in and translate those to the monitor profile. When you
    encounter adobeRGB or wider files (extremely rare but does happen), it will
    do the right thing and translate from that color space to the monitor
    profile.
    Wide gamut displays are great but you have to know what you are doing. For
    almost everybody, even photographers a standard gamut monitor is often a
    better choice. One thing is that you should not use unmanaged browsers on
    wide gamut displays as your colors will be completely out of whack even on
    calibrated monitors. This limits you to Firefox and Safari. Firefox has the
    secret option to enable color management for every image. Safari doesn't
    have this. There is one remaining problem, which is flash content on
    websites. Flash does not color manage by default and a lot of flash content
    will look very garish on your wide gamut display. This includes a lot of
    photographer's websites.

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