What is your opinion on short course Java training for beginners?

A 4-day Java training class is being offered to some here that have (0) Java experience. I don't remember who is offering the course, but it's ostensibly designed for beginners and the list of items to learn in these four days runs about like this:
1) Download, setup and learn how to use the Java free SDK;
2) Build robust Java applications;
3) Learn about java Servlet containers ...
... Oh, heck, I don't know, but you get the picture, right?
I have my own opinions about such classes, but I'd like to hear what you all have to say, especially since I know a number of you are technical managers.
BTW - the programmers are smart and competent, but so far as I know have never worked with ANY OO language before.
~Bill

abillconsl wrote:
guitar_man_F wrote:
abillconsl wrote:
A 4-day Java training class is being offered to some here that have (0) Java experience. I don't remember who is offering the course, but it's ostensibly designed for beginners and the list of items to learn in these four days runs about like this:
1) Download, setup and learn how to use the Java free SDK;
2) Build robust Java applications;
3) Learn about java Servlet containers ...
... Oh, heck, I don't know, but you get the picture, right?
I have my own opinions about such classes, but I'd like to hear what you all have to say, especially since I know a number of you are technical managers.
BTW - the programmers are smart and competent, but so far as I know have never worked with ANY OO language before.
~BillOuch! IMO, it would be more worth while to spend 4 days teaching about good OO design, independent of language, then to spend time teaching technically inclined people how to download an SDK or IDE, read docs, etc. Any good engineer should be able to pick up the basics of working with the technology well enough without much instruction. It's thinking about programming in a whole new paradigm that's going to be the struggle. That's where the effort should be spent.
- AdamThat's exactly what I say.
Can I assume the term engineer is used loosely? Because none of us, to my knowledge can qualify as engineers ... either the Casey Jones type, or any other ;o). We're all simply application programmers here.Yeah, slip of the tongue. I tend to say engineer because I dislike the term "programmer". "Programmer" doesn't do a good job of expressing everything that is involved in what most of us do.
A.

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I would say that all four solutions to solving your tasks are technically feasible. Here are some thoughts that I had however:
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ad 1:
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Which Java would be best for beginners to the
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If you would ask whether Oracle currently looses customers due to their abonimal support I would have agreed right away.
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I know this doesn't apply to everyone here, but everyone can feel free to share their opinion.
Since I have provided a few answers in the forum for Business Workflow, and have contact e-mail in my "business card" some SDN users take the opportunity to send me private e-mail asking for advice. There are two situations;
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2) a person sends the questions in private e-mail without having posted the question in SDN
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Situations 2) are in my opinion a real disrespect for the ideas behind SDN, my spare time, and/or my employment situation. All such e-mails are consequently answered without providing any help, telling the person to post the question in SDN. (Note: "All" are not hundreds, but I think I have to start using both hands to count them now - and that's during less than a year.)
There are two things I would like to know your opinions on:
1) Would a normal person (i.e. you) cater to such a request (the second kind) in private e-mail?
2) How strongly should I tell these people that they have crossed a line that shouldn't be crossed. Is the following going too far?
> Quoting Full Name <[email protected]>:
> Please allow me to contact you directly with some questions
> [SDN-relevant text/question snipped]
>
No, as everyone who asks this receives as answer. If you have a question, post it on SDN. Not so everyone can see what you are asking about, but so everyone can find this solution. Besides, I probably visit SDN more frequently than my private e-mail inbox, and there are other people who can answer the question, so you will get a solution more quickly. Ordinarily I wouldn't have checked it until this weekend now that I am travelling, but since I had to look for some other e-mail I discovered this.
If you want a private advisor, you'll have to contact my company to hire me. That's the deal of SDN - free advice, but only in public.
Kjetil Kilhavn
Happy hacking, and let the Debate begin!

Yep, agree.
I provide my e-mail address in my business cards for three reasons:
1. Personal/private messages
2. Professional messages that should not be public
3. It's the only form of advertising allowed on SDN
The response I usually give people for asking for help offline varies.
Sometimes I respond with questions of my own: could they give me a more detailed spec, how many days of my time they would like, and whether I can work from home as this would affect my rate.
Most of the time however, I have a standard reply handy:
I would like to help but I would prefer this via SDN. This has a number of benefits for both of us:
1. By posting on SDN we help anyone that has the same questions as you
2. By asking questions on SDN you have access to more knowledge than just asking one person.
3. I don't always have time - on SDN there are hundreds of people who can answer your questions so you are likely to get a quicker answer.
There are already a lot of resources out there - far more than I could write about in a whole week, I would suggest going through the excellent workflow tutorials in the SAP help, and looking through the Wiki FAQ https://www.sdn.sap.com/irj/sdn/wiki?path=/display/home/businessProcessManagement&
When you have questions, feel free to ask on SDN. But also remember that better questions get better answers, so use the rules of engagement to help you ask better qestions:
https://www.sdn.sap.com/irj/sdn/wiki?path=/display/home/rulesofEngagement&
Cheers,
Mike

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Hi guy's,
I know the forum is more designed for troubleshooting but as a product owner I think it's a little bit justified.
I'm kind of at a cross road and don't know what direction to go in. Basically I've dedicated my life to music (Instrumentals / Beats) and really don't know if I'm being realistic about it as a career. So after investing in Logic Pro X and other products I put up the results on a newly made Soundclick page. I know most vocal artist aren't in Logic forums so I'm not necessarily trying to sell anything, all I'm looking for is an opinion on my work made with LPX.
A quick reply from you with just the word "Yes" = Being Realistic.
A quick reply from you with just the word "No" = Not Being Realistic.
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www.Soundclick.com/MoVee
Thanks,

Thanks for the reply,
I was wondering what style of music is your favourite, to get a better idea of what your expectations were?
Some of your critiques are accurate because they were intentional. I listen to a lot of music and I think that's one of my problems. Meaning - lot's of songs (A-List Songs) incorporate parts that are off timing to avoid a mechanical sound, when you listen to the Master Recording you'll notice the vocalist makes up for it by playing (singing, rapping etc.) into it so it seems deliberate. When listening to a Master Recording with vocals most listeners would not analyze it or notice as long as the vocalist makes it seem planned. I know because as a listener I didn't notice until I heard the instrumental. When hearing an instrumental for the first time without a psychological reference of the vocals those nuances might be harder to accept. Thinking back to those songs when working makes me feel like some timing issues are justified as long as there artistic. I just hope you don't think they were beyond artistic or having a vocalist make up the difference. These are the kinds of battles I have with myself when producing.
As far as the "overly simplistic repetitive" comment, again your critique is accurate. That's another decision that's made from a reference. Many mainstream songs in the Hip Hop and Pop genres are built off of repetitive parts. It's something I noticed from A-List songs and agree with you about. The question now is, how do you maintain conventionalism (repetition) and variety?
If you have the time in the future maybe you can compare some of my beats to a song/instrumental that went 2 times Platinum and is indicative of that repetitive style - Black and Yellow by Wiz Khalifa ( kind of old now but the style is still prevalent ). Try and judge it from a compositional standpoint ( structure of melody, harmony etc. over time ) as a song like that was processed with thousands if not MILLIONS of dollars worth of equipment. Another Pop example that's a little bit more varied would be Katy Perry Extraterrestrial.
You forgot to let me know where I can check your stuff out.
Thanks again, I appreciate it

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Is it dead yet?
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