White and black point vs ??

I never know which forum to post these things, so I'll start with the photographers.
 
 These three shots are as follows: (1) the camera raw version, (2) where I moved the sliders from the ends to approximately the beginning/end of the major portion of the histogram, and (3) using the threshold control to find the white and black points in the main part of the picture.
 
 Then, in the two adjusted versions, I lightened the image with the curves control.
 
 In both these cases, I used the grey dropper to touch the same spot on one of the rocks, to get the apparent neutral point.
 
 It seems to me that the threshold method to find the white and black points is preferred, based on the overall color and appearance of the finished adjustment.
 
 But, I've found on some images where the histogram has missing black and missing white, if I adjust the sliders to these two ends, I get pretty much the same outcome, as far as the contrast, color, and grey point.
 
 Could I have some advice on the preferred method to use in handling my image adjustments? Doing it the threshold method takes more time, and sometimes it's difficult to find the white and black points, or even the grey point.
 
 Thanks.
 
 Al
 
 
<a href="http://www.pixentral.com/show.php?picture=1SlEeG9kfwzD34gVOEcCbg7Ktp83p3" /></a>
<img alt="Picture hosted by Pixentral" src="http://www.pixentral.com/hosted/1SlEeG9kfwzD34gVOEcCbg7Ktp83p3_thumb.jpg" border="0" />
 
 
<a href="http://www.pixentral.com/show.php?picture=1tIEs4eAyKz4sxamyVaYRlKjTIIfKj" /></a>
<img alt="Picture hosted by Pixentral" src="http://www.pixentral.com/hosted/1tIEs4eAyKz4sxamyVaYRlKjTIIfKj_thumb.jpg" border="0" />
 
 
<a href="http://www.pixentral.com/show.php?picture=17K3ewFXsGo4K2uH5TGfO06CdVayyn1" /></a>
<img alt="Picture hosted by Pixentral" src="http://www.pixentral.com/hosted/17K3ewFXsGo4K2uH5TGfO06CdVayyn1_thumb.jpg" border="0" />

Yes the image was purposely underexposed. What I was trying to accomplish was to speed up the shutter speed to remove the slight blurring and compensate by pulling data from the shadows. Even though the lens has an image stabilizer the amount of light wasn't enough for a proper sharp shot.
this image is before touch up
These two images are F/5.6, 1/20, ISO 800
After touch up
Better lit scene but shows slight motion blur
This last image is F/5.6, 1/4, ISO 800
I believe that I will have to wait next year and hope I have a faster lens by then. I just don't think the 28mm-135mm f/3.5-5.6 lens is fast enough. I was trying this without a tripod to get in tighter.
Also I was taking these shots without the flash to get the drama of the tree lights.
What I would have prefer is a shutter speed of 1/125 or better as it helps with my hands shaking I believe the slowest should be 1/60
And the lower the ISO the better for noise.
These preferences are what I am used to with my Canon G3 that does not have IS.
I am getting so off track here, lol. But anyways, here are the pictures.

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Setting a White Point and Black Point

I would like to suggest for future versions of lIghtroom to have an ability to set the white point and black points similar to levels and curves in Photoshop. This would be in addition to setting middle grey in the white balance settings currently in Lightroom. I find that the method of using Threshold to find the closest white and black pixels and then using these points to set the black and white points in curves or levels provides a better way to fix a color cast than the methods available in Lightroom.

MB,
There is no real need for Black and White point eyedropper type tools in Lightroom. By holding down the Alt key while changing the Blacks or Exposure sliders the display will show the areas that are being clipped. This is much faster than looking around for the darkest and lightest areas manually. If you just like to click to taste (like using the White balance dropper) then forget the Alt key and just move the sliders until you get the desired look.
Remember that the problem with Photoshop is that there are so many ways to do the same thing that it has become difficult and bloated. Lightroom strives to keep the interface as clear as possible.

Setting White, Mid and Black Points in Camera Raw 7

I am using Camera Raw 7 and can not seem to locate where can you set the white, mid, and black points in Camera Raw with the eyedropper tool. It seems you have to create a new psd file in Photoshop to do this, which does not make much sense since it is a basic levels adjustment. I am batch editing a bunch of CR2 files, and I just need to select the black, mid and white points on a grayscale that I've shot in the images - is there a way to do this in Camera Raw 7? Thanks!!

ACR doesn’t work that way. There is an eyedropper for the overall white-balance that you can set by clicking on a relatively bright, neutral area, but there aren’t black and white-point eyedroppers. But, what is clipped black or white is determined by the output colorspace you have set at the bottom and you can get some idea of what will be clipped black and white by turning on the clipping indicators and watching for the areas you’d be eye-droppering on (the black and white patches in your grayscale) to start showing the clipping color overlay for black and white, but any further toning adjustments will move data in and out of what is darker than black and lighter than white so what is clipped for output will change as you fiddle with the various toning sliders.
The reason things are different: In PS, when you set a black-point and white-point in Levels and click Ok, the data below and above those is thrown away and that is the starting point for the next adjustment. In ACR, things are non-destructive and all the adjustments occur simultaneously, rather than sequentially as in PS, and no clipping occurs until you create the output file. This means that the pixels that are darker than your black-point and lighter than your white-point are still there, and can be moved into the black-to-white range if you do further toning adjustments. Having more headroom of the pixels that are outside the black-to-white range is good because you won’t get the posterization or banding that occurs when colors and levels are clipped after each adjustment in PS.
Can you describe what you intend your overall workflow to be on an image: how much adjusting will occur in ACR and how much, if any, might happen in PS, after the image is opened into PS from ACR, or opened from a file saved from ACR? There might be other ways to approach what you’re trying to accomplish.

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Have you tried a Reset by holding down the Sleep / Wake Button and the Home Button at the same time until the white Apple logo appears, then let go of the buttons, but wait until the Reset completes and you are back at your lock-screen? If this doesn't work then do you have a computer with the current version of iTunes? If yes and you already have a Backup of your Media and Data on iCloud or iTunes, then you can put the iPhone in DFU Mode. Don't do this unless you have a Backup and also have a computer with the latest iTunes. You will need your Apple ID and Password. To go to DFU Mode you can hold the Home button while you plug the Lightning Cable into the iPhone, a graphic will appear on the iPhone screen showing that you need to connect to iTunes. At that point just connect the iPhone via the Lightning Cable with USB into your Computer. Open the iTunes App on the Computer and wait until a button appears representing the connected iPhone. Then click on the iPhone button on the iTunes screen and it should open to the Summary page. At that point you can Restore the iPhone to Factory Settings and bring it up as A New Phone. The iPhone should screen should then show Hello and you will need to connect to your WiFi via your Router WiFi Password and then answer all the question put forth by the iPhone. When the "Lets Get Started" occurs you can thoroughly check out the iPhone to make sure it is all OK. When satisfied that things are good, you can plug into the computer and iTunes and this time Restore from Backup. or if you Backup is in iCloud you can Restore over the air.

How can i accentuate whites and blacks in photoshop b/w ,no acr?

Hi
how can i accentuate whites and blacks in photoshop in black and white photos?
i tried silver evef 2 and there is a feature to boost whites and blacks http://www.niksoftware.com/silverefexpro/usa/entry.php?view=usa/features.html#amplify_blac ks_and_whiteshttp://
levels and curves don't give me the same results
i tried to create a luminocity mask of whites with selective color
is there a great skill to boost whites for example?
thanks
cheers

mantralightroom wrote:
because silvers v2 is a nice plugin , i like how it can boost ,aplify the whites and the blacks
can't do the same results with levels or curve or selective color
I use CS5 with Silver Efex Pro v2, but again, without seeing an example of what you're seeing or what you want to achieve, it's difficult to suggest what specific technique will get you what you want using Photoshop alone.
I'm sure some combination of Luminosity Mask, Levels/Curves/Contrast Adjustment Layers would probably give you what you want, but if the Silver Efex Presets, perhaps with some tweaking/customization, give you what you want, and the speed, or lack thereof, is not a problem, well, just stick with what you have!
And as Duotone and Lundberg have pointed out, there are alternatives to Siver Efex; I'm sure you could download a 30 day trial of those packages to play with and see if they meet your needs.
Good luck
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Recovery and Black Point on JPEG images

I'm not a big fan of trying to do much editing on JPEG images aside from non-exposure/white balance type stuff. I'll crop and straighten, etc.
My question pertains to (for those in the know) applying slight Recovery and Black Point correction to images that aren't shot in RAW format. A) will applying these slight changes having any effect (hopefully a positive one) on the images? B) if not, will it indeed have a negative effect?
Thanks for your time and expertise.
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Jim,
Thanks for chiming in on a topic where I didn't expect to get many replies. All of your comments are well appreciated. I was basically asking because I was under the impression that unless your master is in RAW format, making adjustments to exposure, contrast and even recovery and black point would not do much and could even be detrimental to things such as skin tone, etc. I like to shoot in RAW for the reason of being able to have more fine control to adjustments, but for everyday shots and portraits I don't always go to RAW format since a lot of the time I have trouble getting the shot right with the manual controls. I also don't want the large RAW files for every shot that I take. Still, a lot of JPEG's need adjustments, even if just minor tweaks. The tweaks I make look fine on the screen, but I wasn't sure if they would look okay when printed out and I didn't want to spend countless hours making adjustments and spend (waste) money on prints that weren't going to come out good.
Anyway, that is the background to my thinking in making this post. Thanks again for chiming in.
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I like the "whites" and "blacks" sliders in lightroom with the option key pressed- is there a corresponding slider in aperture? thank you

i like the "whites" and "blacks" sliders in lightroom with the option key pressed- is there a corresponding slider in aperture? thank you

There's no exact analogue to the "whites" slider in Aperture. But you could do it with curves if you wanted. You can set the white point using the curves tool as well.

Start an adjustment with Whites and Blacks?

Martin Evening in CS6 for Photographers recommends adjusting an image using Exposure, Contrast, then fine tune with Highlights and Shadow. Says use Whites and Blacks only if necessary. Julieanne Kost has a pithy video on ACR in which she starts by setting Whites and Blacks (which harkens back to Bruce Fraser/Real World Photoshop advice using Levels in Photoshop). http://tv.adobe.com/watch/photoshop-cs6-featuretour/adobe-camera-raw-70-in-photoshop-cs6/
I know I can see what works best for an image, etc. Wondering what is the recommended procedure.

Hi bmad,
I too would love to see a thorough treatise on the new basic sliders, with full disclosure of image adaptive behavior.
But, my guess: Adobe will leave that to 3rd parties, who may or may not ever tackle such an undertaking, with the kind of detail that would please the most curious users.
Anyway, there was a fair amount of back & forth about this in the beta forums way back when.
Eric Chan who implemented the software, was in the camp of:
* Set exposure 1st
* The rest in the order presented.
* Blacks & whites last as more of a fine-tuning of clipping points.
But, I came to accept fairly quickly that leaving blacks & whites til the end was not always going to work for me.
I regularly end up with blacks between -20 and -50, or more.
And, it's not too unusual for me to end up with +whites up to 40, or more...
Likewise, I've had a few photos with +blacks=100 & -whites = 100.
Those kinds of settings can not wait til the end as fine tuning!
Anyway, part of this depends on personal tastes.
+whites is a lot like +exposure, except it pulls harder on the upper most end. Exposure reaches further into the midtones and shadows.
So if you like your shadows and midtones bright, and highlights not as bright, then you may prefer +exposure over +whites.
In a way, +whites is kinda like:
+exposure +contrast -highlights
So, it's possible that two people can end up with similar pictures, even though they started with different sliders...
Personally, I often adjust exposure & whites simultaneously: almost think of them as a related pair. But, that only works for the more normal photos.
When large -whites values will be needed for taming the highlights, (and often +blacks complements it in that case) then the whole game changes...
I have my speculation about how the design / implementation of PV2012 came about, but I'm probably wrong, and for all practical purposes - it doesn't matter anyway.
Truth betold, the end result only depends on the final values of the sliders, not how you got there.
I think the biggest thing that people who've done their time on the learning curve want to depart on those less traveled in the PV2012 journey is:
Don't bring PV2010 thinking (or other less image-adaptive technologies) into PV2012, or it's a recipe for frustration.
e.g. Some people look at a photo and think: gee, the highlights seem bright enough already, so I think I'll try and boost the bottom up treating shadows slider like Lr3 fill light slider. Those people fairly quickly get on the forum and start screaming about how PV2012 doesn't work very well, and they want Lr3 fill back, when what they need to do is +exposure +shadows -highlights instead.
So if you always keep in mind that exposure (perhaps in conjunction with whites) is the primary means for setting overall image brightness, and shadows & highlights sliders balance around it, you'll probably be OK regardless of where you start.
Pop-quiz:
Suppose the picture looks almost perfect as is, except the highlights are too bright. What is the best thing to do?:
A. -highlights
B. -exposure -highlights +shadows
Answer: Usually B
Why? Because -highlights = +shadows is a sweet spot in PV2012, and the -exposure +shadows will keep the bottom end the same, and drop highlight brightness too, so less -highlights is needed for bringing the highlights down: Net effect: about the same, except you keep PV2012 in it's sweet spot.
In my opinion, contrast should usually be put in the ballpark early on after exposure, but fine-tuning contrast can wait til exposure/whites & blacks are more solid. It's not unusal for me to have highlights & shadows be the very last sliders tweaked.
I think one of the reasons contrast slider is up top near exposure in the slider order is to steer people away from attempting to use highlights/shadows for contrast control. Contrast is more for midtone separation, and highlights/shadows as compensation for over/under brightness of highlights & shadows due to settings of exposure and contrast.
PS - Don't forget to add a touch of clarity, if it's one of those kinds of pictures ;-}
Cheers,
Rob

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White and black point vs ??

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