Wierd HDV to SD DVD anamorphic problem

I've read many articles on this workflow, but I haven't seen anyone with my particular problem yet.
I have an HDV 108060i FCP project. Footage captured from a Canon HV30 and some graphics done in Motion. The editing process went great. I output my final HD project back to my camera. Looks fantastic.
Now I want to make a SD DVD.
I export a non self contained ref movie from the FCP timeline. When I look at this movie, it's 1920x1080. Not anamorphic... not 1440x1080. When I view this movie, a circle is a circle. When I get movie info, it says it's a 1440x1080, but in movie properties, the size says 1920x1080.
But I continue. I drop this file into Compressor, and use the default DVD MPEG best quality settings. Compressor makes a 16x9 file thats 720x404. What I believe I want and need is a 720x480 movie that's squeezed. Otherwise I'm losing resolution.
Funny thing is, when I export a still frame TGA from the same timeline, it's squeezed! 1440 x 1080.
Then I go back to an older SD project, where I've produced DVDs successfully in the past. When I export from a DV anamorphic project, all is right. The exported movie is squeezed, the MPEG 2 from Compressor is squeezed and it plays great on both widescreen and 4:3 TVs after authoring in DVDSP.
Can anyone help? Gotta make a SD DVD by day's end tomorrow!
Thanks
Brian

If you're opening an anamorphic NTSC-sized .m2v file in QuickTime Player, it will be displayed as 720x404 because the QT MPEG-2 Playback Component uses square pixels for display. When imported into DVDSP, the file should be read as 720x480.
As for exported stills being 1440x1080, that is also normal behavior. FCP uses the frame size, in your case 1440x1080, and not the display size (1920x1080).
But you mention that some of this behavior is different than what you've seen with past DV Anamorphic material. How so? What did those .m2v files get displayed as in QT Player?

Similar Messages

*** HDV to SD DVD

I've been following the post below for a while now in order to take HDV footage to a SD DVD more quickly but I'm running into problems. The post basically calls to create a DVCPRO 50 anamorphic sequence, and drop the HDV sequence into it (nest it). Sometimes this works, but sometimes the HDV sequence I'm dropping in doesn't resize itself like it's supposed to. It is really inconsistent. Just exporting from the timeline directly to compressor to make DVDs is quality I'm happing with, but it takes about 60 hours to convert a 1 hour film. Can anyone either explain why this may be happening and/or pass along some links to a better (and faster) workflow for going from HDV to SD DVD?
For FYI, here is the post I am referring to:
My new HDV to SD workflow is as follows:
Capture and edit Native HDV in FCP 5.0.4 or later.
Create a DV50 timeline (DVCPRO 50) 4:3 or 16:9 (Anamorphic)
Set the Field Dominance to Upper (Odd)
Set the Video Processing - Motion Filtering Quality to Fastest (Linear)
Drop the HDV onto the DV50 timeline, it will scale / letterbox correctly, you can alter the scale and pan it to your liking on the DV50 timeline.
Export the DV50 as a quicktime movie.
This will be fairly quick, because there are no filters required for the field dominance upper, as it matches the HDV - we will let compressor switch the fields instead. However, because of this, firewire preview will have the wrong interlacing, and appear jerky on movement. You can DV (DV25) preview DV50 rendered timelines, it seems to convert on the fly.
Drop the exported DV50 movie into compressor.
Don't add any conversion settings yet, click on the DV50 line, and bring up the inspector window, change the Native Field Dominance to be Upper - same as was in the timeline.
Now add some DVD conversions, match 16:9 conversions with DV50 Anamorphic movies, and 4:3 with regular DV50. Use the 2 pass setting. Because we set the Native Field Dominance to Upper, the MPEG-2 videos will have their Field Dominance set to Top First - this is correct.
Submit.
Timings: (1 min 56 sec timeline) on 1.5 GHz G4
Save DV50 from timeline 10 to 11 minutes
Create 2 pass MPEG-2 from DV50 - 30 minutes
Total time, for 1 min 56 sec of HDV to DVD, 40 minutes on 1.5GHz G4
Previous time, going from the timeline via compressor was 68 minutes.
Create DVD's from those assets, they seem to be the best quality possible in the fastest turnaround time, and using DV50 as an intermediate seems to remove the darkening problems of None, has a colour-space that matches the final MPEG - unlike DV (DV25), and does not require too much HD space. It also creates the MPEG quite quickly too, because the DV50 decode is pretty fast.
If this set-up works for you, and improves things over what you are currently doing, let me know. If it does not, let me know why not! If you think there is a better quality method, share it!
Now, over to you guys, I need some feedback and some advice from the pro's:
With the Upper (Odd) / Top First Field Dominance, from FCP through to Compressor, a lot of time is saved when making the DV50 movie, because it does not need a shift fields filter, BUT, will there be problems with a MPEG-2 that has Top First field dominance on certain DVD players ? It seems to work on the players I have tested. It is possible to do the Lower (Even), Shift Fields +1 filter and Bottom First MPEG workflow, but it is quite a bit slower, although it does preview over firewire on DV properly. Any thoughts from someone who knows this stuff better than me - is the end result the same, or am I relying on the DVD player handling the MPEG properly ?
All thoughts welcome.
Some other updates:
I had a lower quality export of a HDV sequence, to an HDV quicktime movie. I have tried all evening to track it down, and post, definitively what it was, but I am at a loss. I can't reproduce it. I thought it was to do with conformed vs. un-conformed timelines, but they now seem to produce the same result.
Well, this is interesting anyway, Choosing Sequence -> Render All -> Both (and make sure everything is ticked), you will get a long Conforming HDV Video step. Now Print to Video won't repeat the (first) Conform, and happens quicker, and exporting the movie happens a lot faster too. Make sure you have filled any gaps with slugs, gaps will slow things down, even after the conform.
Timings:
1 min 56 sec timeline, about 14 cuts only HDV edits, just a rough cut.
1.5GHz Powerbook G4.
Save HDV from unconformed timeline: 10 minutes
Conform Timeline: 8 minutes
Save HDV from conformed timeline: 1 minute
Weird, huh ? Why doesn't it just conform, then export ?
PowerBook G4 Mac OS X (10.4.4) Z1U
The prob

I've followed Bonsai's instructions to create DVDs from HDV footage from this link:
http://www3.telus.net/bonsai/Welcome.html
But my current problem is that when I drop my HDV sequence into the DV50 timeline, it doesn't resize and scale at all.
Here's a photo of my canvas for reference:
http://i172.photobucket.com/albums/w27/bcpatters/canvas.jpg
Does anyone know why this is happening and how I can solve it?

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FCE4 / HDV / Apple TV / DVD

Hi, bonjour,
I'm new to apple and FCE4. I used to work with Adobe Premiere but since it takes a whole lot of work to get HDV footage in an Apple TV format, I switched to imac/FCE.
Can anyone tell me what the best settings are to put HDV footage to DVD AND to Apple TV using FCE4
Kind Regards,
Message was edited by: Ludovic Claeys

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Exporting HDV to a dvd problems

I shot a friends wedding in HDV1080i and edited it in FCP. The footage looks great when viewed in this format, but I am having trouble exporting it to a format that looks good on DVD. If I use quicktime conversion to convert it to H264 720x480 it still looks great, but it is incompatible with DVD studio pro. I have tried exporting using compressor in various formats (DV,NTSC anamorphic,and [email protected]) and all are fairly poor quality by sd standards.
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HDV DVD sound problem

I'm shooting HDV 1920X1080 16:9 footage and editing with Final Cut Express. Everything looks and sounds fine when I edit but as soon as I create a DVD with iDVD the audio sounds overmodulated.
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How I export from HDV to SD (DVD)... What about HD versions suitable for Macs and Pcs?

Hi,
      I have just finished editing a short movie based on some high res stills combined with some 1080i HDV footage.
   After completing the edit in CS4 (in a HDV 1080i environment) I went through Adobe Media Encoder in order to downsize and converting into an m2v file ready for my Encore project.
   As you probably well know this is far from satisfactory in terms of the down sampling capabities shown by AME as well as the lack of proper colour conversion.
So, after giving up on the Dan Isaacs method, AVI synth didnt seem friendly to this user... as well as the inability of CS4 to frameserve..
My solution was to exported the Microsoft AVI using the HUFFYUV codec at 100% - With Progressive scan, when ever I interlaced my output it showed obvious interlacing in my player, odd or even fields first...
I then used VirtualDub to do the down sizing
Finally Procoder 3 to convert to m2v.
The results still have no proper colour conversion properties but look much sharper than the regular CS4 encode using AME
   OK, that took an eternity to discover and still leaves me with another problem.
I want to export straight from CS4 to media type that can be played on both PC and Macs in HD.
Before I go down another gruop of dead ends and trial and error discoveries, could anyone here suggest a recomended and successful workflow?
   Many thanks,
Phil.

let me see if I can help out a little here.
The problem with converting 1080i to SD in software is that FCP seems to do a not-very-good job of downsampling the image, particularly when you are going directly to DV. Details get blurry, and other compression artifacts become quite noticeable. I have also experienced trouble with the HDV fields not getting processed correctly if I go to SD mpeg directly from an HDV timeline or movie file.
Your best bet is one of the following workflows:
Export a 1080i HDV or AIC movie file and re-import to FCP. Place this clip into an anamorphic SD sequence. It doesn't matter if the sequence is DV or Uncompressed if you send the sequence directly to Compressor from FCP, because this will ignore any rendered material and use an uncompressed image buffer as it encodes the mpeg. Do not letterbox your widescreen video if you are going to DVD - widescreen DVD video should always be full-frame anamorphic.
Your other option is to attempt to use Compressor to down-res the sequence or a self-contained movie of your HDV, starting with one of the advnace format conversion presets in Compressor. However, you'll have to cutstomize the preset by turning on the frame controls, and testing the settings to make sure you are happy with the result. Turning on frame controls will increase the ratio of your encoding time anywhere from 4 to 20:1.
I have tried all of these methods, and none of them look as good as capturing the downconverted video from the deck after mastering to HDV tape.
Hope this helps -
Max Average

Does HDV improve SD/DVD quality

Hallo,
I want to switch to HDV for personal use only, but can't affort to buy a HDV camera and big HD television at the same time. So I have to decide wich one to buy first. So there are some questions maybe someone can answer.
So far I have been recording DV 4:3 PAL with a Canon MVX2i and a Panasonic GS400 and I have been happy with the results. Last year I have made some recordings in 16:9 but in my opinion the quality with both cameras is not very good, esspecially with shots where the camera is not really stable. The picture seem to fall apart a little. I do realize the pixels are streched and with the same amount of pixels it can't have the same quality as 4:3. But on (cable) television there is sometimes a broadcast that doesn't seem to have this "falling apart" effect ( a lot do ) while it uses the same mpeg (720x540) stream as the others.
So my first question: If I buy one of the cheap Canon or Sony HDV cameras and shoot HDV 16:9 footage, edit as HDV and convert it straight to mpeg2 for a regular DVD with compressor, would this give me a noticable quality improvement compared to DV 16:9 to DVD? It doesn't have to be more sharp but does it give a more solid picture?
Second question: Does above workflow decreases the effect of those bend, moving lines you see on for instant brick walls while the camera is moving slightly, because of the lines of the chips and the wall interferance?
Third and last question: Somewhere (I can't find it anymore) in this forum I read something about more artifacts around moving objects in HDV like in low rate mpeg compared to DV. Is this true?
Thank you for your respons.

So my first question: If I buy one of the cheap Canon
or Sony HDV cameras and shoot HDV 16:9 footage, edit
as HDV and convert it straight to mpeg2 for a regular
DVD with compressor, would this give me a noticable
quality improvement compared to DV 16:9 to DVD?
Absolutely not, assuming you are comparing good quality cameras of either format. HDV has a noisier compression scheme, and you will also lose definition (compared to starting SD) when you scale the HDV down for the DVD.
You will get somewhat more definition horizontally with HDV compared to anamorphic SD, but only if the SD is displayed anamorphically rather than letterbox. I think you would notice other problems before you would notice this improvement.
It doesn't have to be more sharp but does it give a more
solid picture?
No. Again look at the quality of your SD camera.
Second question: Does above workflow decreases the
effect of those bend, moving lines you see on for
instant brick walls while the camera is moving
slightly, because of the lines of the chips and the
wall interferance?
It would tend to increase that effect, which again with a decent camera is almost non-existent.
Third and last question: Somewhere (I can't find it
anymore) in this forum I read something about more
artifacts around moving objects in HDV like in low
rate mpeg compared to DV. Is this true?
Yes, HDV has motion artifacts from interframe compression, and DV doesn't. DV does have compression artifacts but all compression occurs within each frame.
If you do go HDV, be sure you understand the effect it will have on your ability to capture, edit, to monitor, to work with any particular camera or flavor of HDV. It is never a simple out-of-the-box solution and often requires more $$ than one thought.
Don't get me wrong here: HDV has lots of promise and can be very useful and improve quality in many situations. But for SD-only output it isn't going to help and will most likely hurt.

HDV to NTCS DVD works... is it the same for a PAL DVD?

Hello
I created a DVD from HDV material using these settings with compressor:
http://www.larryjordan.biz/articles/bkhdvconvert.html
basicallythe options are: DVD Best Quality 90 min 16:9
Video Format Tab in the Inspector to manually set filed dominance to "botom first"
It worked fine.
Now i need to create a PAL DVD. what would i need to change?
just set the video format to PAL in the inspector window? and then in DVD studio pro set it to PAL again?
thanks.
Leon.
thanks.

let me see if I can help out a little here.
The problem with converting 1080i to SD in software is that FCP seems to do a not-very-good job of downsampling the image, particularly when you are going directly to DV. Details get blurry, and other compression artifacts become quite noticeable. I have also experienced trouble with the HDV fields not getting processed correctly if I go to SD mpeg directly from an HDV timeline or movie file.
Your best bet is one of the following workflows:
Export a 1080i HDV or AIC movie file and re-import to FCP. Place this clip into an anamorphic SD sequence. It doesn't matter if the sequence is DV or Uncompressed if you send the sequence directly to Compressor from FCP, because this will ignore any rendered material and use an uncompressed image buffer as it encodes the mpeg. Do not letterbox your widescreen video if you are going to DVD - widescreen DVD video should always be full-frame anamorphic.
Your other option is to attempt to use Compressor to down-res the sequence or a self-contained movie of your HDV, starting with one of the advnace format conversion presets in Compressor. However, you'll have to cutstomize the preset by turning on the frame controls, and testing the settings to make sure you are happy with the result. Turning on frame controls will increase the ratio of your encoding time anywhere from 4 to 20:1.
I have tried all of these methods, and none of them look as good as capturing the downconverted video from the deck after mastering to HDV tape.
Hope this helps -
Max Average

UPDATE: Burning HDV to SD DVD Without Getting Judder etc.

I have written a lot about my problems burning HDV projects to SD DVD and the resulting jitter and artifacts.
My latest tests have some very curious results! (My HDV was actually captured in FCP natively but I have had similar results when using FCE and AIC).
I shot 90 seconds of HDV 1080i50 video. Very slow, fluid head tripod pans of a street plus a person walking across the frame with the camera stationary.
I then captured the video first as native HDV and again as "DV LOCKED" - where my camera down-converted the HDV to DV.
The 2 sets of video were Exported as QT Movies and burned in iDVD 08 using Best Performance.
As expected the HDV juddered and had unpleasant artifacts on straight diagonal lines.
The "DV LOCKED" video was OK with no signs of instability. The only peculiarity was an almost imperceptible distorting of the buildings as the camera panned. Previously Tom suggested it was connected with the shutter but the same clip, kept in HDV mode did not display it.
I then Exported the 2 projects from the FCP timeline to Compressor for encoding (CBR 7.7Mbps) and burned a DVD in DVDSP.
As expected, the native HDV clips were smooth, the only artifacts being slight aliasing/stepping on straight diagonal lines.
Surprisingly the "DV LOCKED" clips were very unstable and jittery ........ even worse than the HDV burned in iDVD! ........... I had been expecting them to be perfect!
So the conclusions are very definite.
1. If you are burning HDV in iDVD you must down-convert to DV as you are capturing and edit in a DV PAL Anamorphic sequence.
2. If you are burning HDV in Compressor/DVDSP you must keep it as HDV/AIC and NOT down-convert to DV.

I could have written pages detailing all my experiments and workflows in attempting to find answers but I don't want to cause too much boredom!
Actually you have written pages on this very issue which I've been following from time to time even though I haven't yet replied. Unfortunately, I do not have an answer for you. However, I will say this .... I think it is a wise move to down-convert in the camera itself upon playback (as you're currently doing via "DV-Locked") at least when dealing with apple's i-apps. And as you have experienced yourself, Apple's Pro apps (which Compressor is a part of) are an entirely different story.
Another suggestion is to provide apple with feedback via the following link if you haven't already and let apple know directly which improvements or modifications to iDvd you feel are in order:
http://www.apple.com/feedback/idvd.html

Errors trying to export HDV to Camera, DVD-R, DV Cam

New to forum, and been reading thru other posts but haven't found answers to (all) this below, any help?
I have a festival in 2 days and need to get my movie off my mac on to the best possible format, preferably all on one tape (read below):
I'm editing on a 24" imac with Final Cut Pro. I'm trying to output my movie for a festival in two days, but having issues - can anyone help?
1) When I output to my Sony Camcorder HDR-FX1, the movie looks great, just like how I recorded. Problem #1 is movie is nearly 2 hrs long and HDV tapes only go up to 85 mins. Problem #2 - when I play the tapes (recorded from print to video back to the camcorder) direct to a TV or projector, the video looks great - just how I want it. But, when I am doing the print to video when it passes thru the camera to a DVD-R, the blacks flatten and there is a shimmering in the image. It only plays back with the blacks as they should be if I play what I recorded from the camcorder to the dvd-r; if I let the signal pass thru, the black's flatten (in the end, I may have to create a black spot and off to the DVD in two parts)
2) I have a DV Cam deck, but no matter what setting I try, when I try to output the HDV single from FCP thru the firewire, it will only play on the desktop, it won't export to the deck. Any suggestions here, as I can connect the deck directly via firewire and get all 2 hours on there. I am, as I type this, printing to video to the camera, then from svideo to the DV Cam deck, then RCA to a DVd-R for back up. On the camera monitor, image looks great. On the monitor that follows the DVD-R, blacks are slightly flat and shimmering can be seen, esp in scenes that have orange color in them. I am not sure how the DV cam will look until all done in about 100 more mins...
If worst comes to worst, I'll run the showing from the camcorder and do a tape switch 30 mins or so in to the movie, but I'd rather not interrupt the showing, even if brief. I'd rather output from FCP direct to the DV Cam deck, or secondly, the DVD-R.
I can't even record on an LP mini DV on the camcorder, FCP won't export the sequence to Mini DV for some reason, and I have tried many scenerios...
I am also going to try making a quicktime at 720x440 and making a DVD via idvd, hoping the quality holds up. In the past I had made a sample DVD with the 1440x1080 clips and they played great outside of some vertical lines that you could see in some darker spots. But trying to make a DVD since has created that shimmering, and a friend suggested making it 720x440.
Any help on this - getting the best possible looking version of the WHOLE movie on either DV, DV Cam or DVD-R?
Thanks!
-Ron

forum member Matti Haveri is the SC expert here.... maybe he joins the party here........
and the author of SC is well known to support the users of his app…
http://www.squared5.com/svideo/mpeg-streamclip-mac.html
hit the "send a mail" button on his page…
you don't try to convert commercial DVDs...? that can not accomplished with SC, due to copyprotection.......

Wierd HDV to SD DVD anamorphic problem

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