XMP and DNG support?

I'm using Aperture 2 on Mac 10.4.11...
After importing DNG files I have some problems and what to ask if other users experience the same or perhaps I'm doing something wrong?
I have a Lightroom Workflow where I convert all my 40d Raw files to DNG. I apply a lot of Metadata and some basic adjustments in the Lightroom Develop module. I update my DNG files with metadata and preview images to include everything in the files. After importing these files into Aperture 2 I have following problems.
Metadata is not imported properly.
Example 1:
Creator in Lightroom: Susi & Paul
Artist in Aperture after import: Paul
"Susi &" is missing. Artist is not the only field with this problem. I have the same in behaviour in "Writer/Editor", "Credit", "Source", "Byline"....., simply i n all fields...
Example 2:
Caption in Lightroom: Köln, Cologne
Caption in Aperture after import: öln, Cologne
The "K" form "Köln" is missing.
Example 3:
All adjustments I have done in the Lightroom Develop Module are saved in the XMP Metadata and all previews are updated in the DNG files after adjustment to reflect the changes. I expected that Aperture is reading this metadata and use it for rendering. This is not the case.
I was trying with Aperture 2 in German and English Language without any difference.
Now again my question... Do you experience the same behaviour with Aperture 2 or is it my mistake?
Thanks for any answer and... sorry for my bad english.

Thank you very much Adsy for reply!
After a few experiments I believe the wrong metadata import is a bug too. But this bug effects only my dng files, if I import jpeg's with the same metadata everything is fine. I'm not sure is it the DNG format or the included XMP (my jpegs also have XMP metadata).
In my jpegs I have EXIF, IPTC and XMP (IPTC for XMP). Do you know in which order Aperture is reading this information and which information has precedence and is used?
"IPTC" before "IPTC for XMP"?
And who is the winner if metadata in "IPTC" and "IPTC for XMP" has the same values?

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Xmp and dng

So I have a question.
There is this outsourced company, that I use for editing, and I export from my raw files to dng so I can send it to them, They edit in lightroom, and they return xmp sidecar files with the edits that I simply apply back to my raw files.
Now I want to train another person on remote location to do the editing instead of using the company i used to use, and I'm trying to replicate this process.
The problem is, from all I read, you can't create xmp from dng files, so how did they do it? Is there another program that can save the xmp data out of dng? or did they conver the dng that I gave them to another format so that they can write xmp files out?
Can anyone give me a way of doing this?
thanks

If DNG is read-only, Bridge will create sidecars for xmp. However there is no way to do the same in Lightroom, without some stunts...
Lightroom will read DNG sidecars (if they're recent enough), but won't ever write them.
papjohns wrote:
Is there another program that can save the xmp data out of dng?
Can anyone give me a way of doing this?
Easiest way is via xEmP plugin, but you can also use exiftool directly if you prefer.
Rob

XMP and DNGs

I convert RAWs in DNGs.
When I want to go open a DNG foto in PS-CS2 via Bridge I first "export XMP metadata to file" Is this necessary when working with DNG files?

OK, so I'm in the process of splitting up my single big library to a couple of smaller ones. I've done the "export XMP metadata to file" thing. When I read the files back into LR under a new library, it will read all the changes I've done before from the .xmp files. Am I understanding this correctly? Also, once I've re-imported all the files back in, do I still need to keep the .xmp files? Are all the changes read in from these files re-written into the new library? Thanks.

DNG, XMP, and Exporting

The following pertains to Lightroom 1.1 (and possibly only to the Mac version on an Intel Mac with OS 10.4.10).
I have searched Lightroom 1.1 Help, the knowledge-base, this forum, and elsewhere for simple instruction on how to do either of the following:
Task #1: Create a separate XMP sidecar file from a DNG file for which the metadata relating to picture adjustments made in the Develop module has been embedded in the DNG file or stored in the Lightroom database.
Task#2: Export a DNG file (for which the development metadata has been embedded in the DNG file or stored in the Lightroom database) while at the same time creating a separate XMP file that contains the development metadata.
I did some experimenting relating to Task #2:
In Lightroom, I set the exposure of a DNG file to +4.00 in the Develop module, then switched to the Library module and clicked on the menu item "Metadata > Update DNG Preview & Metadata", and then exported with "Original" selected as the file format. Immediately after this, I set the exposure to -4.00, without updating, and then exported with "Original" selected as the file format. Immediately after this, I exported with "DNG" selected as the file format.
Here's what I found:
1. Looking at the thumbnail preview for each in Mac OS 10.4.10's Finder window: Exports 1 & 2 look like the picture did the last time I clicked on "Metadata > Update DNG Preview & Metadata" (i.e. with +4.00 exposure). Export 3 looks like the picture did at the time of the second and third exports (i.e. with -4.00 exposure). Opening any of these files within Mac OS X's Preview application shows the original state of the file without ANY of the development adjustments made before exporting.
2. Looking at the pictures in Adobe Camera Raw 3.7 (because I have only Photoshop CS2): Export 1 looks like the picture did the last time I clicked on "Metadata > Update DNG Preview & Metadata" (i.e. with +4.00 exposure). Exports 2 & 3 look like the picture did at the time of the second and third exports (i.e. with -4.00 exposure). No subsequent changes occur by going on to open the files within Photoshop CS2 after they are displayed in ACR 3.7.
3. Looking at the pictures after re-importing into Lightroom: Export 1 looks like the picture did the last time I clicked on "Metadata > Update DNG Preview & Metadata" (i.e. with +4.00 exposure). Export 3 looks like the picture did at the time of the second and third exports (i.e. with -4.00 exposure). For a few seconds, export 2 looks like the picture did the last time I clicked on "Metadata > Update DNG Preview & Metadata" (i.e. with +4.00 exposure). Then it switches to look like the picture did at the time of the second and third exports (i.e. with -4.00 exposure). It seems this has something to do with thumbnail previews being already embedded in the files and with Lightroom displaying them temporarily before updating them.
4. All three exports, when re-imported into Lightroom, begin with two snapshots already in the Snapshots panel of the Develop module: "Import" & "Import 2". "Import" is the original file condition when the file was first imported into Lightroom (before any of my export experiments). "Import 2" is the state of the file at the time I exported it, not the state when I clicked on "Metadata > Update DNG Preview & Metadata" (i.e. "Import 2" is with -4.00 exposure) EVEN IF THE CATALOG IS DELETED AND A NEW ONE CREATED BEFORE IMPORTING THESE, THE SAME THING OCCURS.
In none of these scenarios was an XMP file created. This had me wondering whether XMP files were possible at all in conjunction with DNG files. On to...
Task #1:
Now, as I was beginning to think that the only solution for creating XMP files from DNG files was to have Lightroom set up to maintain metadata in XMP files instead of in its own database (i.e. full-time XMP files as opposed to XMP files created only when exporting), I tried to alter settings in Lightroom's preferences, clicking menu

(to Lee Jay: Yes, as I found out.) Here's the rest of my post:
...items and buttons in this sequence: Preferences > General > Go to Catalog Settings > Metadata. Nothing I tried with the settings there would induce Lightroom to create XMP files alongside DNGs.
AFTER MORE WORK WITH JPGs AND CANON RAW FILES (.CR2), I FOUND THAT I COULD CREATE XMP FILES FOR THE CANON RAW FILES ONLY.
My conclusions are:
1. Lightroom writes separate XMP sidecar files for 3rd-party proprietary RAW formats only. This view is supported by the verbiage under these headings in Lightroom Help: "About metadata and XMP" and "Synchronize metadata with Adobe Camera Raw and Bridge".
2. This means that, for other formats, enabling the following catalog settings under Preferences does not result in separate XMP files: "Write develop settings to XMP for JPG, TIFF, and PSD", "Automatically write changes into XMP".
3. Also, for the other formats, enabling these catalog settings either does not alter the files at all or else alters them in a way that shows up only within Lightroom, Photoshop CS3, and any other applications that use Adobe Camera 4.0 or later. My additional export/re-import experimentation with JPGs in Lightroom suggests the latter is the case.
4. In Lightroom settings and documentation, "to XMP", "into XMP", etc. mean "to the XMP data embedded within the file", "into the XMP data embedded within the file", etc., except for those cases in which the associated file format is 3rd-party proprietary RAW, where these phrases mean "to a/the separate XMP sidecar file", "into a/the separate XMP sidecar file", etc.
5. The problem that seems to remain is that, apparently, not all non-Adobe software that can read DNG files is able to view changes made to these files by Lightroom (e.g. Mac OS X Preview).

Installed Lightroom 5.2 and DNG 8.2 and NEF files are not supported.

I installed Lightroom 5.2 and DNG 8.2 and when I try and import NEF files I am told they are not supported.

If your camera is very new, like a Nikon Df, then wait until the next version of LR/PS/ACR for support.
If your camera model is newer than the latest version of LR, perhaps a Nikon D610, then you need LR 5.3/ACR 8.3/DNGC8.3 which are all available in release-candidate status at Adobe Labs: http://labs.adobe.com/
If your camera is older and should be supported, then are you using and older Nikon Transfer or View NX that are corrupting your NEFs in a way that Adobe doesn’t recognize them? The solution for this is to not use the Nikon products that predate your camera and install versions that came with your camera or are newer than your camera. Or just use LR, itself, or the OS utilities like Finder and Explorer to copy the NEFs to your hard-drive.
If your files are corrupted by obsolete Nikon products, then there is a utility, here, that can undo the damage:
http://owl.phy.queensu.ca/~phil/exiftool/fix_corrupted_nef.html

Any solution for Panasonic Raw files and/or DNG support?

Hi folks - in addition to my Nikon cameras I shoot with a Panasonic LX3 and soon a GF-1 - and so far I haven't had any luck getting any sort of raw files from the panasonics to be read by Aperture. I had thought that with Apple's DNG support that there would be a way to convert the files to DNG and then import, but so far I have had no luck.
I realize that the GF1 is brand new, but the LX3 is over a year old and supported by all of Apple's competitors. I really don't want to switch to lightroom, but it is getting harder and harder to stick with Aperture.

Eric: Great, Aperture 3 might be out by spring 2010? That's only 6 months or so from now. [/sarcasm]
I appreciate the pointer to the AI article, but personally I'm more interested in whether Apple is working on adding additional RAW support for Aperture/Mac OS X any time soon, and certainly before Aperture 3 is out. Both Aperture 2 and Lightroom 2.5 are more than capable for my workflow and editing needs.
This week only added to my dismay re: Aperture v. Lightroom update likelihood and frequency; still radio silence from Apple, and Adobe releases a public beta of Lightroom 3, even as Lightroom 2 was released subsequent to Aperture 2 and has had more updates since its initial release than Aperture 2.
Brian, can you elaborate on the DNG conversion process that worked for you? Having tried every possible profile (I believe) in the latest release of the DNG Converter app, I have to say I'm skeptical that there's a setting that works with the GF1. But I'm ready to be pleasantly surprised!

Just bought a Nikon d750 and confused about adobe LR4 and PS6 support for the RAW files. I have DNG 8.7 but wondering if LR and PS will import direct soon Thanks for any advice

Just bought a Nikon d750 and confused about adobe LR4 and PS6 support for the RAW files. I have DNG 8.7 but wondering if LR and PS will import direct soon Thanks for any advice

Support for the Nikon D750 was introduced in the latest version of LR 5.7 and ACR 8.7 on Novemder 18th 2014.
Further updates to LR 4 were stopped when LR 5 was released on June 9th 2013. No further updates for bug fixes and new camera support.
Nada, LR 4 will never support Nikon D750. The Nikon D750 was introduced into the market in September 2014 some 15 months after further development of LR 4 was discontinued.
You can use the Adobe DNG program (free download for the package) to convert the Nef (raw) files from your Nikon D750 to the Adobe DNG format which will permit you to import those into LR 4. This is the crutch provided by Adobe to allow for the processing of raw files with outdated versions of LR and ACR.
You can also update the ACR plugin for PS CS6 to version 8.7 which can also work with the raw files from the D750. For direct support in Lightroom you will need to upgrade (paid) to version 5.7.

HT201071 And still no Pentax K3 support? At least improve the DNG support so the K3's DNG can be read.

And still no Pentax K3 support? At least improve the DNG support so the K3's DNG can be read.

http://www.apple.com/feedback/macosx.html

I cannot open images from my new NikonD3300 in Elements 11 , I have downloaded and installed CameraRaw 8.4 and DNG convertor but still won't open!

I wonder if anyone can help with the above question about Elements 11 and my not being able to open Raw images, I have tried downloading and installing Cmaera raw 8.4 and DNG convertor but still not opening have not had truoble with D200 or lumix G5. thanks Yvonne

The D3300 requires Camera Raw 8.4 but Camera Raw 8.4 is only compatible with Elements 12 and later.
Camera Raw-compatible Adobe applications
Camera Raw 8.4 is not compatible with Elements 11 and never will be.
You'll have to either a) upgrade to Elements 12, or b) use the DNG converter to convert all D3300 Raw files to DNGs then edit the DNGs in Elements 11.
Camera Raw plug-in | Supported cameras
The D200 requires Camera Raw 3.3 (or later) and the Lumix G5 requires Camera Raw 7.2 (or later) both of which are compatible with Elements 11.

Aperture lack of DNG support unfortunate

It's difficult to understand why Aperture does not offer support for Adobe DNG files.
DNG/RAW files are being used by some camera manufacturers that I work with, and they contain a wealth of metadata as well as the broadest range of image data, including "altitude", which is now very useful in my professional work.
This lack of support has forced me to go back to Lightroom, and to reconsider that application as my primary media catalogue and editing application.

A JPEG saved as a DNG isn't really a DNG file.
It is true that Aperture doesn't have "comprehensive" DNG support. It doesn't support linear DNGs, and it doesn't support some of the newest DNG extensions that Adobe has added (lossy compressed DNGs, etc.). I don't know the exact version of the spec that Aperture supports.
But do note that DNG is a lot of things. It's a fairly comprehensive spec that has many versions, with lots of different things. Aperture does support many DNG properties, but not all of them. If you want the latest, greatest, most comprehensive DNG support, then Adobe will have it, as it's their specification.
I personally just use the RAW files that come out of camera - whether they be NEF, CRW, CR2, or DNG. I _never_ convert my camera RAW files into DNG, because that actually strips some data (in my case, focus point informatin from CR2 files that Aperture can display, is removed from the converstion to DNG). There are many long-winded discussions on the "value" that DNG provides, and I don't subscribe to them. It provides no legay-proofness today that's unavailable other places.

Camera Raw and DNG Converter 4.4 Now Available

Details here: http://blogs.adobe.com/lightroomjournal/2008/03/lightroom_14_and_camera_raw_44.html
Regards,
Tom

Hmmm... I got the DNG Converter and ACR from the page I listed.
If you go to the DNG page at http://www.adobe.com/products/dng/ and click on Downloads (in the light gray box on the upper right) for Mac or Windows (I'll use the Windows example here because I'm on a PC right now, but it also worked from my Mac) you will go to http://www.adobe.com/support/downloads/detail.jsp?ftpID=3894 and then you have to click on Proceed to download and it should say filename DNG_Camera)Raw_4_4.zip and be 5.4 meg in size (If you follow the Macintosh link the filename is DNG_Camera_Raw_4_4.dmg and is 12.5MB).
However, if you go to the Camera Raw page at http://www.adobe.com/products/photoshop/cameraraw.html and click on the download links under the main gray box you will only get the Camera Raw file (filename is Camera_Raw_4_4.zip at 3.3MB or Camera_Raw_4_4.DMG at 7.8MB).
Both download places list the Product name as Adobe Camera Raw and DNG Converter. But the filenames are different and indicate which one you are downloading.
JOhn

10.9.5 with camera raw 5.07 not showing .RW2 and DNG but showing .CR2 previews in finder

Even with the latest OS and latest camera raw, only my Canon raw image files display proper previews in the finder, and open properly with iPhoto and Photoshop. .RW2 and .DNG files will not show previews or open with iPhoto, and .RW2 files won't even open in Photoshop without being converted to DNG. I've combed the support community questions for over a year now, am tech support oriented, and am ready to throw in the towel. I've had this same problem with previous system versions and camera raw versions, so I know the solution lies with neither of the two.

I'm having exactly the same issue and I posted on Adobe's site and dpreview and StackExchange but nobody has the final answer. I can see thumbnail previews in finder with ALL my various Raw files (Olympus OMD EM1, Panasonic GH2 and GH3, and Nikon D5300) just fine but when I use the convert to DNG feature in Lightroom (latest version since I'm on the CC subscription), only the Nikon DNG files display a preview thumb in finder and neither the Oly or Panny DNG files display. The closest I got to an explanation is that, since the m4/3 cameras do their profiling in camera and Adobe doesn't have a profile for them, some of the info isn't converted into the DNG in those systems. The article I read about it was really about Aperture not being able to read the Adobe DNG files but it may also explain why Mac finder can't show preview thumbs. Aperture 3: Some DNG images display as unsupported - Apple Support
If there is no way to get preview thumbs in finder with the converted RAW files from my GH3 then I'll forgo converting for now.
Here is my Nikon DNG
And my Panny DNG (Oly is the same)
Panny RAW shows up just fine
As does the Oly ORF

Camera Raw 5.2 and DNG Converter Available - Note from Adobe

Camera Raw 5.2 and the DNG Converter is now available:
http://blogs.adobe.com/lightroomjournal/2008/11/camera_raw_52_and_dng_converte.html
Lightroom will be updated to version 2.2 with equivalent camera support in December.
Regards,
Tom Hogarty
Lightroom, Camera Raw and DNG Product Manager

Well, I managed to locate and download both the ACR 5.2 and the DNG 5.2, but it was a bit of a challenge. I have a couple of comments regarding the DNG installation.
As a sometime OS beta tester, I have developed a habit of keeping C:\ for the operating system only. When a new OS or beta is issued, I just format C: and install the new OS. I try to keep applications off C:. It is hard, though, with all the default installations. It would be nice to have the option to install DNG.exe in my applications partition.
My workflow involves importing NEF's from the memory card to a folder, and at the same time converting those NEF's to DNG's and putting them in a different folder in a different partition. Both these NEF's and DNG's are archived. A copy of the DNG's are used as working images. The virtue of DNG's is that there are no sidecar files to keep track of when exporting images. Unless I really mess up, I never go back to the NEF's again. I guess that I am an "outlier" too. I guess that this is essentially the 5 - A "double DNG-only" workflow, using type 2, the native-DNG-DNG system. This is discussed in detail by Barry Pearson at http://www.barrypearson.co.uk/articles/dng/safety.htm#personal
I do like the camera profiles. I previously have used the Fors script. My Nikon D200 lacked red and the Fors script fixed that. Not surprisingly, different profiles are appropriate for different image types. Is there any way of determining the methodology and reasoning between the different profiles, and what specific problems each one is designed to correct. This might permit better matching profiles to image types, with less trial and error.

DNG Support

Can you tell me when Apple will support Leica DMR RAW in Aperture?
I bought the productv in good faith expecting DNG support, but it will not work with my camera. Are there any plans ? Is it the fault of Leica? , of Adobe ?
I am baffled by this - is it bec asue not many people wil lbuy the DMR.
If so i will persevere with the Lightroom beta

<...>
I bought the productv in good faith expecting DNG
support, but it will not work with my camera. Are
there any plans ? Is it the fault of Leica? , of
Adobe ?
<...>
That's a mix of Adobe misleding people as to what DNG actually is, and every company around (not just Apple) playng fast and loose with what DNG support actually means. It would be easier to be upset with Apple if there were anyone but Adobe who actually supported DNG fully instead of only convienient parts of it (and they usually wont tell you which parts).
I am baffled by this - is it bec asue not many people
wil lbuy the DMR.
Now as to your camera support, I imagine Apple will add support eventually but it may take a little while. It's a combination of the camera companies cooperating with Apple and Apple's priority for camera suppport which is I think driven in large part by sheer marketshare - they want Aperture to be useful to as many people as possible, which is understandable. They wanted to get good quality conversions for the largest camera makers (like Canon and Nikon) and should now be branching out in terms of supporting other brands (I'd estimate Fuji next though).
If so i will persevere with the Lightroom beta
You can also simply export TIFF's from a RAW converter you like and import those into Aperture. That's how I use the program today.

Raw and DNG

Have been successfully using RAW and DNG conversion with Canon 20D in CS3. New Canon 5D Mark II. No longer able to covert to DNG or open RAW files. Have downloaded updates RAW 4.6 and corresponding DNG converter that are supposed to work in CS3. Still not able to open or convert. Any siggestions?

I can understand being angry when you find out your camera isn't supported by Adobe, as I remember I was, too, just not being angry enough to find JPG or DPP adequate instead of spending $200 on an upgrade. Adobe needs to pay their employees and not waste our money by hiring more people to keep all their old versions up-to-date, so once I got over being angry, I was ok with their policy. I suppose it's possible you'd need to upgrade your computer, again, to run CS4 or CS5, and that would be more than $200. My old computer will barely run CS4 and I don't have a 5D.2 so you're one step ahead of me.
Anyway, to summarize what the alternatives would be if you weren't avoiding them out of protest:
1) Upgrade Photoshop to a version that supports your camera, which would be CS4 or CS5 next spring. This would cost $200 unless you had to upgrade your computer again.
2) Manually copy your files from your CF card to your hard drive, then use the DNG Converter 5.5 to convert them to DNGs, then Bridge and ACR can work with them. This is free.
Another alternative I will mention, because this is what I do, is to use Lightroom, and then edit things in Photoshop if your processing requires it. Mine rarely does, anymore.
I used to shoot JPG and use Paintshop Pro to adjust my images and that worked until I found myself in a situation where I needed to correct white-balance more than worked well with JPGs, so I converted to shooting RAW, with a temporary phase of RAW+JPG because I wasn't sure.
Once I was doing RAW, it only took me a day or two to reject using DPP as very annoying. So I started using Bridge/ACR/Photoshop to process everything. At one point an independent company had a program call RAW Shooter, where they gave away the "lite" version for free, and it did a reasonable job. Of course Adobe bought them out, and then released a wonderful program called Lightroom based on the idea and some of the technology. Lightroom costs $300 for the initial version, $100 for major upgrades that mirror the Photoshop major upgrades, and has free minor updates for new cameras that correspond to the free interim ACR updates.
If Photoshop, itself, does what you want, and it's only ACR that you want to update whenever you get a new camera, then Lightroom is a cheaper alternative to updating Photoshop just to get a new ACR version.
As I said, I love Lightroom, and would hate to go back to use Bridge/ACR as my main processing model, again, let along use DPP or shoot JPGs.
The next version of Lightroom, LR3, which improves the detail rendering and color-noise-reduction (so far) is available for beta testing until April 2010, from http://labs.abobe.com/ It doesn't have luminance noise-reduction enabled because that is apparently still a work-in-progress after Adobe has fundamentally changed their RAW rendering algorithm and luminance NR is the quite difficult to accomplish, but Adobe wanted user-feedback on their new rendering and color NR without waiting to perfect the luminance NR.
I am enjoying using the beta although I have to go to Photoshop to use the Noise Ninja plug-in for higher ISO images.

XMP and DNG support?

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