XServe RAID Sharing

Well, after many hours of heartache I skipped the pre-config options and am doing it the old fashioned way -- much easier.
Question: how come my clients can't see volumes mounted to the server? I have an xServe RAID fibre-channel attached to my xServe, but none of the client can reach the volume. Oddly, they can ping its IP though.
Any thoughts much appreciated

Unless I have missed something - leaving room for a mistake here - I would recommend people NOT upgrade from 10.3.9 server to Tiger server based on our ACL permission problems. If I had read this somewhere, I would have not upgraded. I was also told this "bug" we so enjoy would not be fixed until Leopard is released - circa Oct 2007.
I spent the night Thursday redoing the Tiger server install - from the ground up. Hand coded all users and only used the builtin staff group.
Using all the available tips I proceeded to:
1) turn on ACL for volumes.
2) reboot
3) set POSIX owner to "diradmin" (open directory owner) for all points that will be shared read write
4) set POSIX group ownership to "staff" read write
5) set POSIX everyone to read write
6) dragged staff group into ACL and set to full control
7) propagated each point
8) rebooted
9) enabled sharepoints
10) rebooted
a few hours later I am receiving calls from staff members that are creating documents that can't make changes to their new documents. Of course I am at home asleep because I was up for 24 hours before I went home. Had I been awake, I would be assured I was living a nightmare which really began a few weeks ago, the day we decided to finally use our Tiger server installer.
The most valuable tip I ran across is very poorly highlighted, the fact that you CANNOT propagate root owned files and folders. We all know that root/system owned files and folders are the ideal server side rights. What in the freaking world would posess anyone to change that??????? and not provide adaquate warning. So I will reiterate here because many people are missing this crucial point.
YOU CANNOT PROPAGATE ROOT/SYSTEM OWNED FILES AND FOLDERS PERMISSIONS
Even if you could, you are not guarenteed that ACLs will work. They simply don't work at all here - bug!
No, I'm not erasing 11 terabytes of storage to see if that helps. It didn't work on the internal 200 gb drives.
sincerely, Bugie
XServe G4

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2nd Xserve RAID + Xsan = ?

So here's the situation...
There's an existing Xserve RAID shared via Xsan... Works great, except we're running out of storage space.
So we've purchased a second Xserve RAID, I've set it up in the RAID Admin and it seems to be all happy and good...
I then go to Xsan Admin and to the Luns tab, but the raid is no where to be found...
What do I need to do to make sure the new RAID can be added to the Xsan.
Thanks Much
Tommy

Definitely check the zoning on the fibre channel switch. In general it's a good idea to create a zone that has ONLY the computers and the storage you care about included. Which would mean if you add additional computers they can't see your SAN storage if you don't want them to.
This also means you need to broaden the zone and add 2 more ports when you add the second Xserve RAID, of course.

Switching to Xserver/Xserve RAID

Hi boys and girls...
I was looking for a little assistance in switching over to Xserve. Let me give you some background info first.
Were a small studio in London, with only 11 people in-house and the majority working externally whether free-lance, from home or from another country etc. Were mostly Mac based, though 4 machines are those little beige pc things all running XP 2002. At the minute its 1 G5 and a collection of G4 tower's and G4 power book's, G4 cube's and so on. Were all connected to a G4 server running Mac OS X Server 10.2.8 with a very small dual 120GB HD raid thing running Retrospect.
Our problem is, this system was set up some time ago and were starting to outgrow it.
What were looking for is a way to backup all of our current work and archive all of our old work. Most users like to work directly off the server as theres so much file sharing between the macs and pc's, directly updating files so there isnt any duplication etc.
First question, is it possible (and a good/bad idea ?) to have 10-15 users working directly from a Mac server, that stores the archived work for users to reference and also current work which is backed up to tape and duplicated (as we currently have) to another HD?
Secondly, Is the ideal way to be running things? Is there a more efficent way?
Finally, what kind of spec should we be looking at? There's such a huge difference between servers, while were willing to invest, we dont want to go crazy (maybe a little) on costs.
I look forward to your responses and thank you in advance
Marcus

There are certainly some drawbacks with your current setup that mean you should make some changes.
In general, there's nothing wrong with working with files directly off the server, however, 10.2.8 has some issues with multiple users accessing the same files at the same time, so you should look to move to 10.4 ASAP to address that issue, regardless of any other changes you make.
I am assuming that the remote users don't work this way - uploading/download files as appropriate - it would be painful to work off the server remotely.
The only real disadvantage with working with files directly off the server is that if a file is changed erroneously and saved, there's no easy backup.
If the file was copied to the local drive and saved, it's easy to roll back to the previous version by re-copying it from the server, but if that change is saved directly to the server the only rollback involves pulling out Retrospect.
The other change that would make a difference is installing a gigabit switch and connecting the server to it. Even if all the host systems don't have gigabit ethernet, the extra bandwidth to the server will definitely help.
As for a new server, 10-15 file sharing users are not likely to stress the server, do you don't need a top-of-the-line configuration.
You should first decide how much disk space you need. With 500GB drives, the XServe can handle up to 1.5TB on its own, without any additional XServe RAID. However, you might want to consider RAID (using RAID you're limited to 1TB of RAID 5 storage, or 500GB of mirrored storage in the box).
In addition to your current data usage, consider using an online disk backup where multiple copies of the data is stored on the server itself before (or in addition to) backing up to tape.
While tapes offer several long-term archive advantages, they really don't work so well for quick restores of a file or two. Having a snapshot of the last couple of days data online makes it trivial to step back a day or so without having to resort to tapes. This may mean, though, that your 100GB of data requires 200 or 300GB of disk space.
If you do decide than an XServe RAID is the right solution, consider getting it right-sized from the get-go rather than buying it small (e.g. 4 drives) and adding later. While it can be done, adding drives to an existing array is a PITA.
If you do opt for an XServe RAID, and you don't currently have any rack-mounted equipment, consider using a PowerMac G5 as your server rather than an XServe. While similar in terms of performance, the PowerMac can work out cheaper depending on configuration.

Clarification on how to use Xserve Raid and Fibre Channel without xsan.

First let me apologize for not responding earlier to your response, I tend to get busy and then forget to check back here.
Tod, the answer to your question is No, only one computer is accessing the xserve raid files at any one time and that is via Fibre Channel. However I do have the xserve raids set up as share points via ethernet.
Maybe I should turn that off and only access the files with the one computer that can connect via fibre channel.
I never thought of that. I will try that while I await for your answer, thanks again.
Todd Buhmiller
I have the following setup:
Xserve: 2x2Ghz Dual Core Intel Xeon, 5Gb of Ram, Running 10.5.8 Leopard Server
Xserve Raid with firmware version 1.5.1/1.51c on both controllers, and
Qlogic Sanbox 5600
Apple Fibre Channel Cards in Xserve, and Mac Pro Tower; Apple 2 Port 4Gbs Fibre Channel Card
Mac Pro Tower-Quad Core Intel Xeon 2.8Ghz, 16Gb of Ram, Running Snow Leopard 10.6.4
Here is the problem.
The directory for the xserve raids keep getting corrup, and I use disc warrior to rebuild them. Is there a way to keep the directories from getting corrupt? I am a few pieces of equipment before I can build an Xsan as that is the ultimate goal, but until then, I just need to be able to have the raids funciton as storage without having to rebuild the directories all of the time.
Anybody have any suggestions?
Thanks
Todd Buhmiller
Widescreen Media
Calgary, Alberta Canada
Tod Kuykendall
Posts: 1,237
From: San Diego
Registered: Oct 11, 2000
Re: Xserve Raid Mounts, Corrupt Directory tired of rebuilding directory
Posted: Jun 27, 2010 1:25 PM in response to: Todd Buhmiller
Are multiple computers accessing the same data on the RAID at the same time?
If so then NO. This is the source of your data corruption and I'm surprised if you were able to get all your data back every time if this is how you've been running your system. Each fibre channel assumes it has full and sole control of every volume it has mounted, no data arbitration is practiced and data corruption will occur if this assumption is wrong.
The only way this set-up will work is to use partitions or LUN masks so the volumes are accessed by one computer at any time. As long as one computer relinquishes control before another mounts it you will dodge arbitration issues but this is a dangerous game. If you screw up and mount an already mounted volume - and there is no easy way to tell if a volume is mounted - corruption will then occur. Sharing data simultaneous at fibre speeds is what XSAN does and to do this you need it.
HTH,
=Tod
Intel Xserve, G5 XServes, XRAID, Promise

+The xserve raids will mount automatically to any computer that I connect the qlogic fc switch to+
This is source of the corruption to your data. Any computer that attaches to a drive/partition via fibre channel assumes that it alone is in control of the drive and data corruption is inevitable.
+Is that the issue, should I disconnect the xserve from the fc switch and leave it connected via ethernet?+
Short answer: YES. The ethernet connections are fine because the server is controlling the file arbitration through the sharing protocol. Fibre channel connections assumes complete control over the partition and no arbitration of the file access is performed. It's like two people independently driving trying to drive the same car to different locations.
Depending on your set-up it is possible for the two machines to see and use different parts of the Xserve RAID storage but they cannot access the same areas without SAN doing the arbitration.
Hope that's clear,
=Tod

Can't copy files to Xserve Raid

Hello,
I'm having serious issues copying files to my work's Xserve Raid. When I try to copy files to it, it stalls for several minutes trying to copy, but making no progress, before giving an error saying:
"The Finder cannot complete the operation because some data in "filename" could not be read or written. (error code -36)"
When I click ok, I get disconnected from the Raid.
Any thoughts as to what could be happening?

What do your logs say? I'd check your afp (or whatever sharing mechanism you're using) and I'd keep an eye out for any fibre channel or LUN messages that might indicate connection/communication problems with RAID itself. (These might show up as LIP messages.)
Sounds to me like an underlying communications issue rather than a file sharing issue but without more information it's hard to say.
Good luck,
=Tod

Volumes folder on my xserve raid

Hey all!
When my network users login, they can see the root level of my xserve raid. Shouldn't this ve hidden?
What if someone decides to trash my Volumes folder or decides to make any folder they want?
When I try to disable sharing on the root level, of course, the subfolders are inacessible?
Any advice, please?

I assume you mean when your network users log into their workstations they mount the XServe RAID volume shared via some host on the network, right?
If that's the case your solution is to just change the sharepoints on the server to share subdirectories on the XServe RAID rather than the entire RAID.
Use Workgroup Manager to designate other sharepoints on the server. You'd need to look at how the clients are mounting the RAID in order to determine what changes you need to make there.
BTW you can't delete the /Volumes directory, so don't worry about that part.

Connecting xserve to xserve raid - done everything

Hello,
I'm having trouble connecting my secondhand xserve to xserve raid.
- xserve is running 10.8.5
- i'm screen sharing the xserve
- I have reset both the RAID controllers with paperclip
- both fiber channels are connected
- both controller cards are connected to the xserve via ethernet
- half the hdds in both sides of raid show red light
- it has been on for 24 hours now
Add system in RAID Admin doesn't propose anything, so I have manually entered the ip addresses from server.app>network pane.
If anybody has any ideas I would be thankful.
Paul

There are several possibilities.
First off, from your screen shot, both your RAID and your host are using the same IP addresses (169.254.192.90 and 169.254.87.107). That's not going to work. However, it's probably not your major problem... let's move down the stack.
Your interface on the host isn't connected/configured corrected - as noted by the Orange ball alongside the IP address. You need to fix that.
Second, the 169.254 addresses are somewhat variable, so just because the RAID had that address at one point in time that doesn't mean it still has that address - it could have changed. This may or may not be the case, depending on the link status of the host system.
If you choose to Add System within RAID Admin, it will search over the network to find nearby, available RAID systems to add. This is usually better than relying on dynamic IP addresses that might have changed since you last configured the array.
In either caase, focus on the link to your host. Check if you can at least ping the RAID. Use a tool such as tcpdump to see if you can determine the IP address of the RAID (hint: you should see it broadcasting on the network link).

Xserve RAID expansion

Hello all, I just need to clarify something here. My Xserve RAID is hooked up to my Xserve G5 and is used to store users home directories.
I have recently added two more drives to the RAID to knock it from 700Gb to 1.4TB. I used to RAID Admin tool to expand the RAID which completed ok. It recognises the increased capacity, but of course OSX Server 10.4.11 does not, so I have to format it.
If I copy the entire contents of the RAID to another area, take the area off sharing for home directories, format the RAID with Diskutil, then copy everything back, then put it back on sharing, will it all just work again as it did before (as in no problems accessing home directories accross network).
I have to do this next week, and any help is much appreciated. Thanks

It should see the extra space. I have increased size even on Panther and it saw the additional space.

How to install 1 xserve and 2 xserve RAID ??

Hi i'm new at fiber world. Could anyone tell me how can i install 2 xserve raid on 1 xserve? In this moment i have 1 Xserve and 1 Xserve RAID conected directly with 2 fiber cables. I need to buy other xserve RAID but how can i conect it? i have to use a fiber switch? and if this is correct wich switch u recomend?
A link with schematics will be apreciated.
Thx in advance.

In the sense that you can plug everything in and it will auto-negotiate and things will just "show up" then yes it is like an ethernet hub.
You will probably have to do some simple configuration of the Sanbox via their admin tool but as long as you're only using the Xserve/RAID it should be easy because you just have one zone and all full speed ports. The QLogic docs are good, if basic, and the admin tool is pretty straightforward - especially for an easy set-up like this.
The way that fibre is not like ethernet (just so you're aware) is cannot have two Xserves plugged in sharing the same drives. This will work if you try it but horrible data corruption will eventually occur. Fibre is like ATA or SCSI and you can't share it between host computers in it's raw form. Just to be clear.
Good Luck,
=Tod
G5/2.0x2, Dual XServes x2, XRAID, beige G3 501Mhz

Xserve, G5, Xserve RAID and fibre channel question

hi guys,
I have a Xserve conneted to Xserve RAID right now. Is it possible connect G5 to Xserve RAID thru fibre channel ? thanks

>is it possible to do ?
Not in the way you describe, no.
The XServe RAID's 14 drives are connected to two separate controllers. Drives 1-7 are connected to the upper controller. Drives 8-14 are connected to the lower one.
If your XServe is currently connected to the upper controller it's talking to drives 1-7.
If you connect the G5 to the lower controller it will be talking to drives 8-14.
Therefore you cannot use this setup to backup the data via the G5.
At the very, very least you need a fiber channel switch so that both the XServe and the G5 can connect to the same controller. However, as Tod has already mentioned, it is tricky to get multiple machines talking to the same RAID drives while avoiding corruption (there's no concept of arbitration, or ways of preventing one machine from editing a file that's in use by the other machine).
You have two basic options - one is to implement XSAN, which will handle the arbitration issue, the other is to configure the G5 to mount the RAID read-only. This should prevent the G5 from modifying a file while it's in use by the XServe (which may be sufficient for backup purposes), but you may still run into issues when the G5 tries to backup a file that's actively in use by the XServe.
In all honesty, a better solution would either to get a SCSI card that works with the XServe and do it all there, or use file sharing between the XServe and the G5 and backup over the network - it'll be slower, but a lot more reliable.

To Xsan or not to Xsan... bunch of Xserve raids + fibre switch

Hi all,
I have 4 Xserve Raids and a fully licensed Qlogic switch plus an Intel Xserve to share it all.
I went ahead and loaded Lion Server on my Xserve for the "free" Xsan which is shweet but was pondering wether I need the overhead of the Xsan?
My need is just a simple NFS share, nothing fancy.
I was thinking to share 1 Xserve Raid as a volume (striping 2 sides together) and serve the other 3 as another volume (striping 6 sides together).
Any nuggets of wisdom are very much appreciated.
Thanks in advance,
- Brian

There's nothing in your post that implies XSAN is needed.
XSAN is needed if you want to connect multiple hosts to the fiber channel network - in effect, giving each host direct access to the XServe RAIDs.
Since you stated you want '... a simple NFS share', that implies that the host XServe is sharing the XServe RAID volumes over the network, therefore XSAN isn't required.
You might get better performance by connecting the clients to the fiber channel SAN, but it doesn't sound like an issue for you.

Cannot map or even see drives on xserve RAID hanging off a xserve

Sorry if I sound like a complete idiot, but when it comes to Macs I am one. We have a OS X Server 10.5.8 and a xserve RAID. The RAID looks ok and under the server I can see both of the RAID drives that have been created and access them. When we try to map to it on one of our house Macs, its errors out with "There was a problem connecting to the server." When we try to map to just the root of the server, we can see its hard drive, but not the RAID drives. Any help would be most appreciated!

By default, Mac OS X Server only shares the root drive.
In order to share external volumes (such as the XServe RAID volumes) you need to use Server Admin to mark the volumes as shared (as well as which protocols to use).

Spotlight working only intermittently on xserve RAID

I have an xserve RAID connected to an xserve and spotlight search works sometimes for some people and then a few minutes later it works for other people but not the ones it was working for originally.
I have tried forcing spotlight to reindex the RAID but that didn't help, users can search inside folders on the RAID but not the whole RAID itself.

This is INSANE! Apple should just take the Server Spotlight promise off their website. Is this working for anyone? Of course, I went off and told my client to upgrade to the Leopard server for exactly this service. Now we're back to using EasyFind which still finds files twice as fast as Apple's Finder Find command. BAH!
Okay - for the record:
I forced the mac to re-index Spotlight using Cocktail - and it did that (this is the internal system drive that also has share points on it).
Spotlight finds perfectly fine from the Server's Desktop.
If I sign in from a client as admin and click on "Shared" and "File Name" it will find the files - but not all of them - that match a search. (ie if I am looking for files with "07-0782" in the name and type "07-078", I get them all. If I add a "2" to the end of that, it drops a couple of the files off the list - files that clearly have "07-0782 in their name.)
Content search returns nothing - ever.
If I sign on as a regular user - I never get anything searching with "Shared" chosen in the Finder window, but if I click on the quoted folder name between "This Mac" and "Shared", it seems to do a manual (takes a minute or two depending on depth of folder) and does return results - although I swear EasyFind is faster.
I assume this might have something to do with permissions. But every folder has always had all users as part of the group with R/W permissions and "others" set to read. According to the Spotlight Server rules - anyone should be able to search if there is "read" permissions set to the share point. Anyway, I re-propagated the permissions - no help.
Phew... there's more oddness, but this is the gist of it. I did do a regular upgrade-install from a 10.4 server could this be the problem? - but erasing and re-installing doesn't seem to have helped others. Right?
-- Don

Capturing Video To Xserve Raid problems

I recently purchased an Xserve raid (1.75TB with 512mb cache on each controller), set it up for Raid 5. I also have an Apple Fibre Card on Slot 4 (the fasted PCI-X slot on my dual 2.0 G5. Much to my surprise when capturing DV video, not HD or DVCPRO, simply DV video via FireWire 400 to the Xserve Raid it can't keep up and drops frames! When I caputure DV video via FireWire 400 to my internal 150gb SATA drive all is well.
I do have journaling turned on for the Raid, but that can't be the problem.
Any help would be greatly appreciated.
thanks

Hi there,
I’ve been reading numerous posts by you on the Apple Discussions pages and was wondering if you could help me.
I work for a small video company with 1 G5 Quad, 4 Dual G5’s and a G5 Imac. We have always worked across a gigabit network, sharing media and projects from each other’s internal and external drives without any problems. However, it was very hard to keep track of what everyone was doing and it was often hard to find specific files.
Therefore, we decided that it would be a good idea to centralise all of our storage, so we invested in an Apple Xserve Raid, which we connected to one of the dual processor G5’s (which we installed 10.4 server software on) via fibre channel. We figured that we would all be able to access the raid (just like we access each others internal and external drives) and read the media across the network. However, this has not gone to plan!
I followed the instructions about how to initialise and setup the raid and striped one bank of 7 as Raid 0 (set as our Projects drive) and the other bank as Raid 5 (set as our capture scratch). It does work ok for the most part. The G5 that hosts it works perfectly and most of the time one or maybe two of the other G5’s work well, but on the whole we are dropping a lot of frames and images are freezing frequently.
My understanding is that all 6 of our edit suites should be able to read DV across the gigabit network and as I have said, this has been the case before we got the raid – which leads me to think there is something, not right with the Raid. I could be here all day if I were to explain all the network settings on each computer, as well as what settings the Raid is set to – and to be honest I wouldn’t even know where to look!
I don’t know if I made this clear, but we capture locally and move the footage across – the project files and render files are also saved on the raid! We are not trying to work from the same project files, just the same media – but not all the time!
I really need to understand why we are having so much trouble and any help would be greatly appreciated?
Kind Regards
Adam

Adding Additional Drives to 3.55 Xserve RAID

So, we just purchased the 3.55 Xserve RAID (7 500gb ADM's). I'm surprised to read that I cannot "grow" the volume by adding ADM's without reformating the volume using OS X. Is this still true?
Our intention was to simply add ADM's as needed, however this is likely not going to work... if each time I need to offload the data and reformat the volume.
Annoyed.

Xsan allows you to aggregate fibre channel LUNs (analogous to "disks") into what are called "storage pools." You then aggregate storage pools into volumes. So to grow a volume, you can either add more LUNs to an existing storage pool, or you can add more storage pools to a volume.
A bit technical.
Keep in mind that to run Xsan, you will need a few things:
1) A fibre channel card for every machine that wants to access the volume over fibre
2) A dedicated ethernet network which is separate, and used specifically for metadata traffic on the volume -- this enables Xsan to do file locking
3) A pair of dedicated metadata controller machines -- preferably Xserves with > 2 GB of RAM, to manage the SAN.
At minimum, figure $20K on top of the storage to get started with Xsan, if you want it to perform well and be reliable. You owe it to yourself to get Xsan training and certified as well -- making errors early in the planning/deployment process can magnify later on.
Xsan is great for what it does best -- high speed, shared, video editing -- but to just give the ability to grow a volume, I personally think it's overkill. If you can stick to one RAID you could probably do a concatenated RAID volume with OS X's built-in RAID.

XServe RAID Sharing

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