Explanation of PID process variable and set point timing and optimization
Hello I've been a longtime viewer and fan of the NI discussions forums and finally have a question worthy of the expertise.
Recently I've been trying to tackle to PID loop control system. I've been able to tune a system and create a crude but functional simulation. Unfortunately I feel I'm missing some of the crucial rules of the PID loop. For example I've heard people say that the process variable need to run faster than the setpoint, and if this is so then how do you have the PID in a loop that is running slower than the process variable actually utilize the faster updating of the feedback. I've research the dt function and the timming of loops but have yet to been able to grasp how this actually works. I understand that the process variable needs to run faster than the setpoint, so would this require just slowing down the set point and keeping the PID loop, feedback, and motor control in a faster loop. That's the way I seem to be understanding it, but people mention the dt function all the time in order to tune timings. I'm interesting learning how exactly and all the ways the control system on the PID loop is actually optimized. Any help would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks
Taylor S. Amarel
Learning is living.
Co-Founder and CEO of http://3dprintingmodel.com/
"If we did all the things we are capable of, we would literally astound ourselves."
-Thomas Edison
Hi Taylor,
Can you link me to where you were reading this previously about setpoint speed and all this?
Generally, you simply stick the PID.vi into a loop and wire things up as you would expect. You can use timed loops as you discussed and can sync them up to other clocks (perhaps even a DAQ clock) if you so desire, but it's not critical.
Is there some strange behavior you're seeing that you're trying to alleviate?
Jeff | LabVIEW Software Engineer
Similar Messages
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PI Control Error Between Process Variable and Set Point
I've developed a PI program that uses measurements from a pressure transducer as the process variable to control air pressure released from a motorized valve. The program works great at lower pressures, but as the set point pressure increases the error between the process variable and set point increases. I've tried several things....adjusting the P seems to initially increase the overshoot but the process variable always settles down below the set point....tried adjusting the EGU min and max values but no real pattern develops with this. It appears as the process variable get closer to the max EGU value of 70000 pascals the error increases.
I've attached three screen shots showing the process variable curve and setpoint value. The graph of interest is the one in the upper right hand corner.
Any recommendation or advice would be appreciated.
tks, Terry
Attachments:
Low Pressure.JPG 267 KB
High Pressure.JPG 398 KB
Mid Pressure.JPG 266 KBKyle,
First off....I appreciate your comments. No...there is no value is system represented as U16.
Actually errors start to develop quite a bit before the maximum. If you look at the mid pressure.jpg file you'll notice that the set point (~28125 Pascals) and process variable (~25625 Pascals) are roughly off by about 2500 Pascals. Then if you look at the high pressure.jpg file you'll notice that the set point (~53000 Pascals) and process variable (~45500 Pascals) are roughly off by about 7500 Pascals. Therefore it appears as the setpoint pressure increases towards maximum the error tends to increase.
I was curious about something....the set point value I'm inputting into the PID.VI , shown in the high pressure.jpg file, is from EGU to percent.VI. It would look exactly like the EGU to percent VI feeding the process variable input of the PID.VI with the set point value feeding the EGU to percent.VI input. Would I be better off feeding the actual set point value to the PID.VI input instead of percentage?
Thanks, Terry -
RT - PID Gains - where and when to use them
The attached is example code for controlling a temperature chamber. The question is where and when to use PID Gains? This code looks as though the PID Gain is used for the variable/parameter temperature (i.e. the temperature is the controlled variable).
So would there be just one PID Gain per controlled variable/parameter (temperature in this case) or would each device controlling temperature in the system get a PID Gain?
In this example, the fan and lamp are controlling the temperature.
Attachments:
Exercise 8-1.zip 171 KBRuss_in_Louisville wrote:
I came here for help as this is where NI pointed me in their failure. I did not come here to get my "mental model" attacked.
Can you accept that your model of the system might be wrong, though? In this thread from a few weeks ago, multiple experienced users told you that what you had on your block diagram was an array, and yet you insisted - repeatedly - that what you had was a cluster. Your model was that the item on the block diagram was a cluster, leading to the question "how do I get an index display on it?" which made no sense, because the item was in fact an array. And, when you finally realized you were wrong, you couldn't even admit it or thank the people who pointed out your error - it just "turned out" that the constant wasn't what you thought it was. I am trying to tell you that you are making a similar error here by asking questions about the system that do not correspond to what the system actually does.
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You could also have a code that controls several similar processes (for examply, multiple identical temperature chambers). In that situation you could have a single set of PID gains but multiple controllers each with a different setpoint and process variable.
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is there a way on a Workflow Process to get the process instance in order to save it as a process variable (and then store it via a backend call).
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I cant find anything on notes in the help menu only for attachments.
Thanks in advance
Sincerely
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Are we talking about the same type of attachments and notes?
I am talking about the attachments and notes that you can add to a process (shown in Workbench under the user step - Attacments and Notes pane).
I have managed to process a form and pull out the attachments (in a list variable), this list variable I have set as the attachment list for the first user step in the process and this gives an extra tab in Workspace which shows me the attachments that were in the form just attached to the process user step and not the PDF.
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Sorry for the long post ;)
Sincerely
Kim -
Error in BatchLoad process - Object variable or with block variable not set
Hi All,
We are working on FDM version 11.1.1.3 with Essbase as a target system.
To automate the data load process, we are loading the batch loader feature.
I have taken the backload script from admin guide and it is working fine in our test environment.
When, I am trying to use the same script in our QA environment, we are getting the below error message-
Error: An error occurred running the script:
*91 - Object variable or with block variable not set*
At Line: 24
QA environment has same version as Test environment (11.1.1.3). In QA, it the same script which I am using in Test environment.
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Thanks & Regards,
Mohit JainHi,
As suggested by you, I have placed the code given by you and now my scripts looks like-
'Declare Local Variables
Dim lngProcessLevel
Dim strDelimiter
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BATCHENG.mInitialize API, SCRIPTENG
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lngProcessLevel = 12 'Up-To-Check
strDelimiter = "~"
blnAutoMapCorrect = 0
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'Execute a Standard Serial batch
BATCHENG.mFileCollectionProcess BATCHENG.PcolFiles, CLng(lngProcessLevel), , CBool(blnAutoMapCorrect)
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Thanks a lot for your help!!
Thanks & Regards,
Mohit -
Batch Processing error: Object variable or With block variable not set - 91
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"Object variable or With block variable not set - 91"
FDM Log:
** Begin FDM Runtime Error Log Entry [2012-07-06 16:07:09] **
ERROR:
Code............................................. 75
Description...................................... Path/File access error
Procedure........................................ clsBatchLoad.fFileCollectionCreate
Component........................................ upsWBatchLoaderDM
Version.......................................... 1112
Thread........................................... 5828
IDENTIFICATION:
User............................................. admin
Computer Name.................................... *******
App Name......................................... *******
Client App....................................... WorkBench
CONNECTION:
Provider......................................... ORAOLEDB.ORACLE
Data Server......................................
Database Name.................................... *******
Trusted Connect.................................. False
Connect Status.. Connection Open
GLOBALS:
Location......................................... *******
Location ID...................................... 748
Location Seg..................................... 2
Category......................................... *******
Category ID...................................... 14
Period........................................... *******
Period ID........................................ 02/07/2011
POV Local........................................ False
Language......................................... 1033
User Level....................................... 1
All Partitions................................... True
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****************************************************ACTION
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call_btn.onRelease=function(){
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return "";
function findNode(node, nodeName)
if (node.nodeName==nodeName)
return node;
for (var i=0; node.childNodes &&
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****************************************************PHP
FILE**********************************
<?php
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'Geraldine1') or die ("Unable
to connect!");
mysql_select_db('m27849_liveroom') or die ("Unable to select
database!");
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//from:
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?>Hi there,
I cracked it after a lot of to-ing and fro-ing! Apparently
you CAN send a variable and then load xml. Thanks so much for your
advice and interest. I am much obliged.
Marty Party
Check out my code below....
user_id=147;
submit_button.onRelease=function(){
function processXMLData(success)
if(success)
{_root.status_id="Success"
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guitPan=getValue(authorNode);
var contentNode=findNode(rootNode, "guit_vis");
visGuit=getValue(contentNode);
status_id=visGuit;
etc....
else
content="Today's news is not found";
function getValue(node)
if (node && node.firstChild)
return node.firstChild.nodeValue;
return "";
function findNode(node, nodeName)
if (node.nodeName==nodeName)
return node;
for (var i=0; node.childNodes &&
i<node.childNodes.length; i++)
var foundNode=findNode(node.childNodes
, nodeName);
if (foundNode!=null)
return foundNode;
return null;
var xmlData=new XML();
xmlData.ignoreWhite=true;
xmlData.onLoad=processXMLData;
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var id:LoadVars = new LoadVars();
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Basic idea from
http://www.permadi.com/tutorial/flashXMLNewsExample/index.html
- Thank you!! -
Pass variable and set default value based on user's group
Hello
I'm using SharePoint 2010 and SQL 2012. I need to send a variable to the page and based on its value, set default value for a drop down list and send it to other web part to filter the data. Is it possible for certain users to send that value as a default
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P.s. I have limited knowledge of SharePoint and need guidance (links, examples, recommendations)!
Alla SandersThank you for your response. I'll try to give you more details. On PageA I check user's groups and based on the group, assign the value and pass it to the next page (no input from the user, all done behind the scene and user is redirected to PageB).
On the next page I read that value and would like to send it to the SharePoint List Filter Web as a default value, as well as send it to another web part that displays the list from SQL, filtered using that default value. Ideally, if the user is from Group
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I looked at the link you provided (thank you). It is using Content Query Web part. Will it work with external content, as well as accepting multiple filtering, including custom starting date? I appreciate your help!
<%
string fnum = Request.QueryString["field1"];
%><table cellpadding="4" cellspacing="0" border="0" style="height: 1000px">
<tr>
<td id="_invisibleIfEmpty" name="_invisibleIfEmpty" colspan="2" valign="top" style="height: 101px">
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Alla Sanders -
Get a process variable's value to set a task's time constraints
Hi,
I want to have my task expiration times determined by a process variable (Data Object Artifact) that defines a task's "time to live".
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Is there a way to get a value of a process variable inside a task without modifying the Web Dynpro associated with the task?
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As the task is associated with the WD mapped to it, we will be able to access only the WD Interface controller context associated with it and also few other Task attributes.
Regards,
Unni
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I use my macbook air for aging. Is it okay to charge it while I'm playing a game. It was really hot when I was charging it. Will it affect it any?
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It's just random, about every five minutes everything just freezes. It's not my computer, just the browser. I get the (not responding) in the upper left corner of the browser. I have to keep waiting about a full minute for the browser to resume. This