Time Machine Oldest backups deleted without warning

I have about 350GB of data on my startup drive that is backed up by Time Machine onto another internal 1TB drive. My other internal and external drives are excluded.
I have just noticed that Time Machine shows my Oldest Backup to be 16th October 2008. When I go into the Options menu in Time Machine System Preferences it has 'Warn me when old backups are deleted' ticked. My backup drive has around 160GB free.
I have not been warned that Time Machine is deleting old backups. The ONLY warning it has given me is the occasional non-specific Time Machine error where it informs me that Time Machine was unable to complete the backup (not very useful) but when this happens it always carries on apparently successful on the next scheduled backup.
The only thing that I can think of to explain this situation is that on the 16th October I replaced one of my excluded hard drives with another. As soon as I had the opportunity I excluded the new drive from Time Machine - but as I used the Disk Utility restore feature, there was inevitably a short time when a new drive full of data was present and wasn't excluded (around 1TB of content on a 1.5TB drive).
If this drive replacement, and Time Machine suddenly thinking it needed to backup that new content caused it to suddenly delete old backups, then 1) why didn't it warn me, and 2) what is the correct protocol for excluding a drive that has just been restored (ie. cloned). Should I be turning Time Machine off before performing such a function?

bilbo_baggins wrote:
I have about 350GB of data on my startup drive that is backed up by Time Machine onto another internal 1TB drive. My other internal and external drives are excluded.
I have just noticed that Time Machine shows my Oldest Backup to be 16th October 2008. When I go into the Options menu in Time Machine System Preferences it has 'Warn me when old backups are deleted' ticked. My backup drive has around 160GB free.
I have not been warned that Time Machine is deleting old backups. The ONLY warning it has given me is the occasional non-specific Time Machine error where it informs me that Time Machine was unable to complete the backup (not very useful) but when this happens it always carries on apparently successful on the next scheduled backup.
The only thing that I can think of to explain this situation is that on the 16th October I replaced one of my excluded hard drives with another. As soon as I had the opportunity I excluded the new drive from Time Machine - but as I used the Disk Utility restore feature, there was inevitably a short time when a new drive full of data was present and wasn't excluded (around 1TB of content on a 1.5TB drive).
If this drive replacement, and Time Machine suddenly thinking it needed to backup that new content caused it to suddenly delete old backups, then 1) why didn't it warn me,
because TM is buggy. it's supposed to warn you in a situation like that but it often doesn't.
and 2) what is the correct protocol for excluding a drive that has just been restored (ie. cloned).
You can either turn off TM before restoring or exclude the drive before starting the cloning procedure. when a new drive is attached TM waits for 2 minutes and then tries to back it up. in that 2 minutes period you can add the drive to the exclusion list.
Should I be turning Time Machine off before performing such a function?

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    ECONOMAN wrote:
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    Now, navigate to where the unwanted file resides. If it has been some time since you deleted the file from your Mac, you may need to go farther back in time to see the unwanted file. In that case, use the time scale on the right to choose a date prior to when you actually deleted the file from your Mac.
    Highlight the file and click the Actions menu (Gear icon) from the toolbar.
    Select “Delete all backups of <this file>”.
    *Full Backup After Hardware Change/Replacement*
    If you are running out of disk space sooner than expected it may be that Time Machine is ignoring previous backups and is trying to perform another full backup of your system? This will happen if you have replaced your computer with a new one, or had significant repair work done on your existing Mac. Time Machine will perform a new full backup. This is normal.
    You have several options if Time Machine is unable to perform the new full backup:
    A. Delete the old backups, and let Time Machine begin a fresh.
    B. Attach another external hard disk and begin backups there, while keeping this current hard disk. After you are satisfied with the new backup set, you can later reformat the old hard disk and use it for other storage.
    C. Ctrl-Click the Time Machine Dock icon and select "Browse Other Time Machine disks...". Then select the old backup set. Navigate to files/folders you don't really need backups of and go up to the Action menu ("Gear" icon) and select "Delete all backups of this file." If you delete enough useless stuff, you may be able to free up enough space for the new backup to take place. However, this method is not assured as it may not free up enough "contiguous space" for the new backup to take place.
    *Outgrown Your Backup Disk?*
    On the other hand, your computers drive contents may very well have outgrown the capacity of the Time Machine backup disk. It may be time to purchase a larger capacity hard drive for Time Machine backups. Alternatively, you can begin using the Time Machine Preferences exclusion list to prevent Time Machine from backing up unneeded files/folders.
    Consider as well: Do you really need ALL that data on your primary hard disk? It sounds like you might need to Archive to a different hard disk anything that's is not of immediate importance. You see, Time Machine is not designed for archiving purposes, just as a backup of your local drive(s). In the event of disaster, it can get your system back to its' current state without having to reinstall everything. But if you need LONG TERM storage, then you need another drive that is removed from your normal everyday working environment.
    This KB article discusses this scenario with some suggestions including Archiving the old backups and starting fresh [http://docs.info.apple.com/article.html?path=Mac/10.5/en/15137.html]
    Let us know if this clarifies things.
    Cheers!

  • Confused about how Time Machine merges backups

    Okay, I understand how TM works and that it merges many daily backups into one days worth by the next day. I've been doing some experimenting with creating a file on my desktop, backing up with TM, and then deleting it and emptying bin. I try to access this file the next day with Time Machine but it is if it never existed. Time machine shows no sign of it. It's there when I have access to the hour by hour updates. But by the next day, when everything from the previous day merged, it's gone. Am I missing the point of Time Machine? Wasn't it created for situations when you delete a file accidentally and want to bring it back sometime in the near future? What am I missing here? Thanks for your help!

    mikemac22,
    The last hourly backup in a given day is kept as the "daily" backup. The last daily backup in a given week is kept as the "weekly" backup, and these are kept as long as possible.
    Time Machine is mainly intended to be a backup and recovery tool. Yes, if you mistakenly delete a file, it can be retrieved. However, the importance of a file is based on the length of time it remains on your "source." I doubt Apple set out to make it this way, but rather made the decision to go with this paradigm as opposed to the alternative.
    You see, there is an inherent trade-off in any backup solution that works as Time Machine does. It probably would have been easy to make Time Machine "consolidate" backups, but then disk space would be consumed at a much faster rate. At some point, some decision must be made concerning the question, "when can a file be deleted from the backup?" In the case of Time Machine, as it is, a file becomes important enough to keep when it has remained on the "source" for at least one week. If it is kept for a shorter duration, and not restored, it will be deleted at some point.
    On the other end of the spectrum, files that exist only in the backup will be deleted entirely when the oldest remaining backup that contains them is deleted. This "thinning" must be done in order to make room for new backups. If this action was not taken, Time Machine would just keep filling up drives, and quickly.
    Time Machine is not an "archive" utility, in any sense of the term. It is not intended to maintain multiple versions of a given file for your convenience. What it is intended to do is to allow for the (almost) immediate recovery of your entire installation- user files, applications, and all- in the event you must format (erase) your source, replace your internal hard drive, or even swap computers completely. As a bonus, it will allow you to choose from several (perhaps many, depending on the size of the backup volume) backups going back in time when you do have to resort to a "Restore."
    Another bonus, of course, is the ability to restore individual files that you might mistakenly delete.
    Scott

  • Using time machine to backup Logic Projects

    Hi
    I was wondering if it is possible to use time machine to backup my Logic Projects. I have a seperate internal drive that I use to keep all my user data on, like my Logic projects. I want to use time machine to back up these projects onto a external firewire drive.
    Can timemachine only backup your systems drive and therefore I would need to have my Logic projects based stored on it?

    Yes - time machine can back up any drive. I am using 3 drives: system drive, a USB2 drive for Time machine backups and a firewire 800 drive for Logic Studio projects, instruments, samples, audio, etc. TM backs up my system and FW drives to the USB drive.
    Time machine options (in system preferences) allow you to exclude/include drives so you just need to set it to include your second internal drive.
    The only thing I'm not sure of is whether this effects the loop browser. Oddly, when I was experimenting with using aliases for Apple loops, Logic actually found the TM backup files when it couldn't locate the original GB loops! After some file moving and index deleting I cleared all loops but now I have duplicate entries again in Logic - possibly due to TM, but I have not verified this.
    -Scott

  • Can I set Time Machine to backup both my hard drive and an external hard drive?

    Hi. I've been working with a lot of family video lately and my internal hard drive has filled up significantly. iMovie doesn't seem to have a good archiving facility like Adobe InDesign which I use at work were all the relevant files are gathered together into one folder. Apple advised me to relocate my movie files to an external hard drive and herein lies my query.
    Is there a way for me to set Time Machine to backup both my iMac's internal drive and the external hard drive that would contain my movie files? I've been using Time Machine for my backups for a few years now, but backing up the external as well has me stumped. If Time Machine could be used then all the necessary file accociations etc would be safely backed up as well - that's why I don't want to have to manually backup the external.
    Anyone have any ideas? Thanks!

    7string48 wrote:
    Thanks so much Pondini!!  You just quickly answered a question that none of the Mac people in 3 stores or Apple Care have been able to answer.If you can format it HFS+ (any variation of Mac OS Extended), it will work.  If not, it won't.  
    I'm not too surprised about the Apple Stores, as they don't get much training on Time Machine.  But AppleCare sure ought to know. 
    Oh...what about if the external drive is an array...like a Drobo with it's own proprietary formatting...I guess that would not work...??
    I've never used a Drobo.  A number of folks here have used them as their Time Machine drives, but I don't recall seeing anyone try to back one up with TM, so can't say for sure.  But if you can format it as HFS+ (any variation of Mac OS Extended), it will work.  If not, it won't.
    At least part of the reason is, Time Machine uses the File System Event Store, a hidden log of changes that OSX keeps on each Mac-formatted disk/partition, to figure out what's changed and needs to be backed-up.  See How Time Machine works its Magic for details.
    See Time Machine - Frequently Asked Question #32 for details and considerations of backing-up multiple volumes with Time Machine.
    However, even if it will work, that may not be your best strategy, depending on your circumstances:
    Since Time Machine keeps copies of things you've changed or deleted, the destination needs to be considerably larger than the data being backed-up.  How much larger varies widely depending on how you use your Mac, but a general "rule of thumb" is, it needs at least twice the space to be able to keep a reasonable "depth" of backups for you.
    If you have a large internal HD, fairly full, plus a large external HD, and the files on the external don't change frequently, you might want to use Time Machine for the internal, and a different app to a different disk or partition, on a different schedule, for the external.  Especially if space is a consideration, you might not need to keep previous versions of files on the externals.  See Time Machine - Frequently Asked Question #27 for some alternatives.

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