Aperture - Nikon D2X White Balance

Apologies for posting in this forum but couldn't find one dedicated to Aperture yet.
Does anyone know if Aperture will actually decode the encrypted white balance information in Nikon NEF files from my D2X or will it make a 'best guess' for the balance based on the image contents ?
aTdHvAaNnKcSe
[email protected]

It is my understanding that Nikon will continue to keep their NEF WB data proprietary. It will probably take a hacker (not Apple) to take care of this problem.

Similar Messages

Does Aperture always apply white balance to RAW files?

Hi Aperture users,
I have been an Aperture user for many years. Aperture handles the white balance of my Canon XTi RAW files just as I want it to: it interprets the RAW data by applying the white balance selected at the time of the photo. I.e., when Aperture decodes the RAW file, it makes it look more-or-less like the in-camera JPG with respect to the white balance.
However, in the past several months, many well-known contributors of this forum have stated "RAW is RAW -- Aperture will not apply any camera settings." This statement was made in response to many "novice" questions about why a RAW photo in Aperture did not look anything like the JPG from the camera.
So, my questions:
Does anyone have a camera to whose RAW files Aperture does not apply in-camera white balance settings?
Does everyone else agree that this exception to "RAW is RAW" is acceptable?
thanks,
nathan

Hi Nathan -- I was hoping someone much more informed than me would weigh in with some engineering truth. All I got on offer is the thin gruel of observation.
Mr Endo wrote:
So, my questions:
Does anyone have a camera to whose RAW files Aperture does not apply in-camera white balance settings?
Does everyone else agree that this exception to "RAW is RAW" is acceptable?
1. I don't. RAW is sensor data. Most cameras record the White Balance camera setting as a metadata tag attached to the RAW data (The WB has no effect at all on the captured data.) Most RAW converters use this setting as the default WB. Some RAW converters perform "colorimetric interpretation" -- they basically compare the data captured to a generic color space and assign a WB. (This is, I assume, the same thing a camera set to "Auto WB" does. My camera is superb at assigning a WB for any mixed scene; it's repeatably bad, though, whenever the actual scene is truly colored (meaning "away from average").) In both cases -- 1. using the attached-to-the-RAW-data WB, and 2. analyzing the captured data to intelligently predict the WB -- a WB is applied to the RAW data. It has to be, in order to produce an image from the data.
2. The problem here isn't that this is an exception -- it's that different people mean different things when they say "RAW". The RAW data is RAW data. As above, the WB setting has no effect on it. But the image derived from the data -- any image produced from the data -- much have a WB set (and, for human use, a tone-curve applied). Some people mistaken think that RAW is an image format, or that the image produced by the RAW converter is a "RAW" image. It is not. RAW data must be converted to an image format in order to be displayed as an image. The conversion must apply a WB.
I have found it useful (though perhaps mistaken) to conceive of my data-gathering to picture-making as following these steps:
. Capture a pattern of light. This is just data.
. Convert the data to an image. RAW conversion done by Aperture. (NB: the settings for this can be changed.)
. Adjust the image to my artistic satisfaction
. Convert the adjusted image to an image format file
. Publish the image-format file in one or two now standard forms: to be viewed on a computer monitor, or as a print.
I mention only because at some point I consciously added the "Convert data to image" step in order to better grasp the process. RAW data is RAW data -- but that step identifies an intermediate that many overlook. At that step the information recorded along with the RAW data and stored in the RAW file is applied to the RAW data.
To me, "RAW is RAW" is correct. "Aperture will not apply any camera settings," is wrong.
I am happy for any clarifications or corrections.

Aperture incorrectly reading white balance data from RAW file?

I'm having some problems with both Aperture 1.1.2 and 1.5 importing RAW files from a Nikon D70 and a Canon G6. In both cases, Aperture is not reading the "as shot" white balance correctly.
With the G6, Aperture is always setting a fixed color temperature of 6016K, and a fixed tint of -15, regardless of the image in question. If I read the same image using Adobe Camera Raw, or Lightroom, then it I get the white balance value as set in the camera.
With the D70, it's picking up a different white balance value from the one set in the camera, always one far warmer than it should be, and with a green tint. Again, the Adobe tools get the right value out of the RAW file. With both cameras I have experimented with setting the white balance manually on the camera, and also with the "auto white balance" setting, but it makes no difference to Aperture.
Obviously I can change all of the values manually, but it's very time consuming, and in most cases the in-camera value is pretty close to what I need, so I'd much prefer Aperture to use it.
In any case, I'm worried about the discrepancy between Aperture and Camera Raw on something so basic.
Anybody got any ideas? I'm hoping I'm just doing something silly, as I have only been using Aperture for a couple of weeks, and maybe something is mis-configured.
Thanks
HG

In any case, I'm worried about the discrepancy
between Aperture and Camera Raw on something so
basic.
Sorry I can't help you directly with Aperture as I haven't bought it - yet. However, re-the above quote, I'd just mention that the interpretation of colour temperature values is not quite as simple as it might seem. Even more so when you bear in mind that RAW converters from 3rd parties like Adobe or Apple are not based on the RAW conversion engine produced by the camera manufacturer - in effect they have to guess/estimate what the temp/tint values in the RAW file actually mean...
Some time back I made a series of tests using 3 Canon cameras, with ACR, Capture One & the Canon RAW converter. Each produced noticeably different results, and C1 & ACR showed quite different temp/tint values. (The Canon software only showed 'As Shot' - no values). The differences were consistent between shots from each camera (using WB values input or AWB) - but they weren't consistent from one camera to another. Which program produced the best result depended very much on the Camera/Subject/Personal taste...
Hope someone can help with Aperture specific info, I'm sure there must be a way of making camera specific adjustments to the RAW conversions...

Aperture 2 and White Balance Tint

Hello
Has anyone else noticed the huge colour shift when making a White Balance Tint adjustment with AP2 on a new image?
When I make an incremental (1 point) Tint adjustment for the first time on a new image the colour changes dramatically (similar to making a 20 point tint adjustment in one go). Hitting the Reset button and then making further incremental WB adjustments eliminates the problem - and everything is back to normal.
This is happening on both my Nikon D3 and Canon 1DmkIII images, so, I don't think it's a camera specific problem.
Anyone else?

I am having the same issue. Clicking in the value box for Temp or Tint causes a big shift. Using the Temp slider causes the image to go green quite a bit. The eye dropper is not much better. It routinely goes warm by a few thousand degrees or gets a green tint.
I called Apple and walked the tech through the issue and he was able to duplicate it and confirmed it is a bug. It is driving me crazy as I am spending way to much time fussing with white balance.

Aperture 3 - Multiple White Balance Presets

Just installed the Aperture 3 Trial and found that on the Adjustments pane, I'm seeing to White Balance preset flyouts under the Presets dropdown. The entries on each of these flyout menus are different. Plus, I can't see what the actual settings are for each preset when I try to edit. Any idea what's going on?
Thanks.
- Leon

I think I may have answered my own questions. It looks like Aperture 3 provided it's own presets for White Balance and it imported the one's I created in Aperture 2, but put them under a second White Balance flyout. That explains mystery number one.
Regarding the ability to see the values included in the preset, they used to show up in the edit window. Now it looks like the only way to see them is to select them and see the settings they apply in the Adjustments pane.
Can anyone confirm these behaviors?
Thanks.
- Leon

Nikon D700 White balance importing issues

Hi Guys,
I am using a nikon d700 with Lightroom 3.2 If I shoot tethered, the correct white balance appears and gets loaded in Lightroom, but if I import them after the shoot, from the card, it loads a completely different white balance value and I have to go back and correct them one by one. I am not using any profile, just leave it on the standard Adobe version because the Nikon profiles are significantly reducing the quality on raw file. Does someone have an idea what I am doing wrong to be able to load the correct white balance during importing?
Thanks

Are you shooting RAW? If so there is no WB embedded in a RAW file, you set the WB in LR. Setting "As Shot" and a calibration profile that matches the camera setting (if one exists) will usually closest to the wb embedded in a jpg produced by the camera processing.
You may want to check out the FAQ, this one is pertinent.

Nikon NEF White Balance encryption

Hi,
I've read quite a bit about the encryption of white balance information in NEF files. I'm in the market for a D50 but this seems to be a problem for me. I'v shot with a 350D and the CR2 files are fine. I got my hands on a D200 and I can only open them with Lighroom.
Any D50 users out there using iPhoto? Does iPhoto decrypt the WB information or do you need to send the NEFs through Nikons software before imporing?
I'd hate to get an overpriced Canaon simply because of an encryption problem...
Thanks!
Matt

Hi Matt,
I use the Nikon D70 and I just shot a bunch of
pictures using Raw format (NEF). Yes, indeed the
white balance in the adjustment panel started off in
non-zero value.
You're talking about iphoto here, right? If iphoto can open the files, so could preview, for example.
I guess your analogy is correct that
iPhoto is able to read the picture information from
NEF. In fact, I think the quality of the adjusted NEF
picture is much better than if you adjust a similar
image shot in JPG. I'll go home and test this tonight.
Yeah, I bet they are! That's a main reason I want a dslr. Sure there are some point and shooters that do some kind of RAW, but if I go 'advanced amateur' I'm gonna go all the way!
btw, what's the rest of your photo-gear?
Thanks for writing!
Matt

Aperture Neutral Gray (White Balance)

In PS Elements I can adjust WB by clicking the dropper on some part of the image that should be pure white or pure black. Aperture, however, wants neutral gray. It is MUCH easier to find a black or white part of an image than a neutral gray. I find this very frustrating and often end up having to manipulate WB by using the sliders.
Am I missing something?

Actually pure black and pure white are extremely hard to visually distinguish. If they are not objects that are known to be neutral. So...
something may look black or look white but actually have a non-neutral hue unless it is a white card or a black card - they will work just fine in Aperture or other software. If they are just stuff that happens to be dark/bright you will end up with a color cast to your image - hey sometimes that is what you want but if you want to start strictly neutral a gray midtone may be easier to distinguish than something that you just pick out of a photo that is really really dark or really really bright. Really doesn't have much to do with Aperture - really.
Not that this has anything to do with your question but here are a couple of thoughts on WB
[Thoughts on White Balance|http://photo.rwboyer.com/2008/07/some-thoughts-on-white-balance>

Aperture 3.1 - White Balance Doesn't Update

Since upgrading to 3.1 I have noticed a somewhat annoying behavior with the White Balance data.
When I change from one selected image in a project to another image the White Balance data does not update.
If I deselect so no image is displayed and then select the new image, the data does update.
This only happens with images on which I have not made a manual White Balance adjustment. If I have made an adjustment then the data displays correctly on the adjusted image when it is selected. However, then selecting an unadjusted image causes a reversion to the 'incorrect' behavior.
Note that the image appearance does not change, so the actual image is not affected by this, only the display of the data.
Is anyone else experiencing this?
If so - any suggestions on how to fix?

Other users have reported similar issues see :[White Balance Glitch|http://discussions.apple.com/click.jspa?searchID=-1&messageID=12521251]

Lightroom & Nikon D800e White Balance

I've set my white balance in the camera (D800e) to afixed temperature; 5500K.
When I bring the .NEF file into Lightroom 4.1, the "As Shot" white balance is called out as 5300K, with a +6 Tint.
I get this same reading with any of the six camera profiles listed in the LR Camera Callibration frame.
If LR is reading the metadata in the .NEF file, the numbers ought to match.
Why don't they?

So on import you want all your photos so have a 5500K 0 WB in LR like you did with your old camera? Then all you have to do is set LR to have that as it’s default WB, or create a Develop preset with WB 5500K0 and use that as your import preset. The only reason it matters what your camera is set to is that you are using the LR factory default of As Shot so LR interprets the camera’s gray-point values into a WB. The only thing that is affected by your camera’s setting is the WB of the embedded JPG preview that the camera shows as you review your photos, or that you see when you import photos before LR re-renders things.
If seeing this spectrum of colors on your camera’s display and on the Import grid is important, then so you need your camera’s custom WB to show up in LR as 5500K +0 then take a sequence of shots where you vary the WB slightly in your camera maybe by 50K on each one, and keeping track of what you set it to for each one, and find the one that LR interprets most closely as 5500K +0.
I used to do what I think you’re saying you do, have my camera set to the same custom WB for everything and have the tungsten shots look very orange and my twilight shots look very blue and other outdoor shots vary between orange and blue, and then adjust my WB in LR to how I wanted it. Since I always was needing to adjust my WB in LR, I decided to get a little help from my camera, and now I have it set to AWB so I have the added benefit of the camera’s intelligence in guessing what looks good. I still synchronize my various photos in a particular lighting scenario to the same WB after deciding what looks best, but sometimes I find the camera does a better job of guessing than I did and I sync to a custom-WB that is equivalent to what it picked for its AWB of one of the shots instead of always having to play with the WB to figure out what I want. Having my camera set to AWB doesn’t preclude me from having the same WB for all my photos in LR and seeing which ones are warmer or cooler than others, but not having my camera set to AWB removes the camera’s intelligence as a suggested WB.

Aperture 1.5.2 white balance broken and render it totally useless!!!

I really like Aperture a lot. However, Aperture is totally screwed up in white balance. I have been using Aperture for a few months now, but I don't seem to have found any work-around for its erratic white balance.
I shoot using a Nikon D200. To verify my concern of its erratic white balance setting, I shot a piece of white paper under controlled and commom lighting.
1. 6500K light source. D200 set to 6700K for one shot. Calibrate using the white paper using the custom preset setting and take another shot My D200 always nail the white balance with the custom preset function.
2. About 2650K household incandescent light. One shot with Auto WB setting. Another one with Tungsten -1 setting. Yet one more with 2650K setting.
None of them came out right in Aperture. The white-balance eye-dropper is totally useless. I never can equalize the RGB channel. I open them up in Nikon Capture NX and they are all accurate.
Now how complicated can shooting a white piece of paper get? Is Apple reinnovating white balance? Aperture seems to be the only RAW converter in the world that gets this basic RAW functional totally wrong. Is Canon user having the same problem?
Mac Pro Mac OS X (10.4.9) 3G RAM

The same images out of my D200 looks accurate and fine with Nikon Capture NX. So I doubt that it's a problem of the camera itself.
There are really multiple problems with white balance in Aperture. First, it doesn't interpret the WB setting from NEF raw file correctly. It displays a wrong WB setting to begin with. That asides. Let's assume I don't mind that and have learned to live with it. However, the WB eye-dropper is too erratic. It just refuses to neutralize the point I click on. What's up with that? Lightroom and Capture NX both did it spot on.
I have to admit that Aperture's rendering is slightly better than Lightroom's, but only when I don't need to correct the WB. As soon as I use the WB eye-dropper, it screws it up! This is driving me nuts. I just wasted $300 and a few months of time.
I have started to pray and I'll start going back to church on Sunday if it means it will get fixed...
Can someone from Apple confirm that this problem is being addressed? Switching RAW processor is as expensive as switching camera system. Apple, please, if you're really listening to your customer.
Mac Pro Mac OS X (10.4.9) 3G RAM
Mac Pro Mac OS X (10.4.9) 3G RAM

Canon EOS 550D JPEGs don't show white balance EXIF info in Aperture

I have 23,000 photos in my iPhoto library which I would eventually like to transfer to Aperture. I've experimented with importing just a few photos from iPhoto so that I can practise using Aperture before I go over to it completely, but have a problem in that the white balance info for JPEGs is not copying over with the rest of the metadata. The white balance column in the Info pane is empty and there are no 'cloud' or 'sun' symbols at the top right of the Info pane beside the word JPEG. The white balance info for RAW photos, however, copies over fine.
I have performed Aperture Library First Aid (repaired permissions and database, and rebuilt database) but the problem still exists. I have also created a new Aperture library and then imported some original photos from iPhoto which I exported to the desktop and then into the new Aperture library. I had the same problem, with no white balance information showing.
This question is being re-posted in a slightly different form from a similar one I asked yesterday, because it has been suggested to me that it may be a problem peculiar to Canon EOS 550D users. Has any other Canon EOS 550D user come across this problem, or can anyone suggest a remedy please? I am using the latest versions of Aperture 3 and iPhoto '11.

Hello Ernie
I think you've pinpointed the nub of the problem. As I was only trying out Aperture, I thought the best thing to do would be to import just a few photos from iPhoto and have a play, so I went to the Import button in the Toolbar and imported them from my iPhoto library individually. After reading your advice I have just changed libraries and opened the iPhoto library in Aperture and the white balance information is now showing. I can't really see what the difference is between the two, I would have thought the white balance information would show whichever way I looked at the photos but I don't care, because you have solved it for me. Thank you so much for your time. So many people have tried to help me and I'm most grateful to the Apple Support community!

Nikon D800 Flash White Balance

When RAW files (either NEF or DNG) taken with the setting Flash White Balance, they are imported into either Lightroom(4) or Photoshop(CS6) with a temperature of 6150K. This does not coincide with the Nikon default of 5400K. If the Nikon Software (View NX2) is used, the white balance shows that the Flash setting was used and the image appears identical when their 5400 default is applied. In Lightroom, or in CS6, if the temperature number is changed to reflect the Nikon default number of 5400K, the color of the image dramatically changes. If the temperature is left at 6150K, the image appears virtually identical to what Nikon calls 5400K.
The issue, a minor one, seems to be that the Adobe products are applying an incorrect Kelving Temperature number to the files. It is disconcerting to see the wrong temperature displayed in the software, but the number can be ignored without any negative effects; and the number can be modified to produce a more pleasing balance.
I am writing only because it took some experimentation and time to come to these conclusions. I wasn't clear, at first whether the camera was at fault, or if the software was producing the issue. It would be beneficial to have the issue addressed and corrected.
Incidentally, all the other White Balance settings from the camera seem to translate accurately into the Adobe Software.

Nikon's white balance numbers are confusing. Nikon list Direct Sunlight as 5200 degrees and Flash as 5400 degrees - no values are listed for tint. If you open an NEF file with Nikon Capture NX2 and select Direct Sunlight for the white balance it will list 5200 degrees with tint of 0 for the white balance, and if you select Flash it will list 5400 degrees and a tint of 0. You can adjust these values with sliders, and if you adjust the Flash values to 5200 degrees with a tint of 0 you do not get the same colors in the image as you get with Direct Sunlight selected which has the identical temperature and tint values.
I don't find any agreement between Nikon's white balance values and what you get with Adobe RAW processing software. I don't find the presets in Adobe Software (Daylight, Flash, etc) very useful because they don't appear correct for the camera's I have. I shot images (NEF Files) with every preset available in the camera selected and saved the white balance values as presets in Adobe Camera RAW. I also find the Camera profiles more useful than Adobe Standard.

How-To: White-balance your image properly Attn: Aperture Team @ Apple

Since Aperture's white balance eye-dropper is more-or-less useless I have taken it upon myself to discover a means to accurately white-balance an image using Aperture.
My method is as follows:
1. Open my desired image in Aperture and hit Z to view at 100%
2. Open up /Applications/Utilities/DigitalColor Meter
3. In DigitalColor Meter, go into preferences and select the following options:
Magnification Factor: 8x
Refresh behavior: Refresh continuously
[X] Float window above other apps
4. Set DigitalColor Meter's "Aperture Size" to the third or 4th notch to get a fairly large radius
5. Move the cursor over the image until DigitalColor Meter's "Aperture" box is over a portion of the image that you want neutral and hit Command(Apple)-L
to lock it at that position
6. Adjust the White Balance controls in Aperture until DigitalColor Meter reads equal (or approximately equal) R G B values
You now have an image that's white balanced accurately for the area you selected. If it is not satisfactory, click on DigitalColor Meter and hit Command(Apple)-L to unlock and repeat the 5th and 6th steps above with a new area.
Notice to Apple's Aperture Team: This is how white balance should work in Aperture. The white balance eye-dropper currently produces pretty random results. When working on this tool for a future update, look at allowing the user to set a radius for sampling the image and build the DigitalColor Meter into the application. This would bring Aperture closer to being a real professional tool.
Dual G5 2.5GHz, 4GB RAM, GeForce 6800 Ultra DDL Mac OS X (10.4.3)

Test Results:
Aperture 1.1:
Image Temperature: 3594
Tint: -17
When using the white balance tool on a white section of a photo, the RGB values changed from R 255 G 234 B 192 to R 255 G 230 B 197 and the Temperature changed to 3946 and Tint to 12.
The photo still remained unacceptable.
When usint the white balance tool on a grey section of the same photo, the RGB values cahnge from R 211 G 178 B 126 to R 208 G 180 B 162 and the Temperatue changed to 3154 and Tint to 2.
The photo still remained unacceptable but was notably improved.
Using Capture One Pro, the results were as follows:
Temperatue: 3850
Tint: -10
When using the white balance tool on a white section of the same photo, the RGB values changed from R 255 G 241 B 200 to R 244 G 244 B 244 and the Temperature changed to 2500 and Tint to -16.
Photo was very acceptable with no perceivable colour cast.
When using the white balance tool on a grey section of the same photo, the RGB values changed from R 190 G 153 B 108 to R 153 G 153 B 153 and Temperature to 2550 and Tint to -2.
Photo was very acceptable with no perceivable colour cast.
From this quick test on a photo, I can draw the following conclusions:
1. Aperture interprets temperature and tint data differently from Capture One Pro, although this likely due to the use of a camera profile within Capture One Pro;
2. Using the white balance tool in Aperture on a "white" section does not neutralize the RGB values;
3. Using the white balance tool in Aperture on a "white" section does not correctly remove a colour cast within a photograph;
4. Using the white balance tool in Aperture on a "grey" section does not neutralize the RGB values; and
5. Using the white balance tool in Aperture on a "grey" section does not correctly remove a colour cast within a photograph, although it does work better.

Precision White Balance Techniques

Hello. This is my first post here; glad to be joining.
I have been using Nikon Capture for years and am moving to Aperture because I find the new Capture NX no longer meets my needs. I have been using a post processing technique taught by a Ron Reznick. Let me say it's not my intention to prosetlyze here, but I am looking for a way, in Aperture, to get precise White Balance.
I've already made a suggestion to permit enlarging the luminance histogram in order to use the shadow area (<64) curve reversal to get precise White Balance but cannot do it with the current Aperture histogram. I have the 30" monitor yet the curve is still only 1" high, too small to use.
Is there a technique one of you use to set the white balance? I asked this at DPReview and was lectured to that it's whatever you want, but that isn't how I understand white balance. I don't have a need to change it to something else; I simply want to set the precise WB which occurred when the image was shot.
Any suggested methods using Aperture?
Thanks in advance, Rich<br>
Mac Pro, MacBook Pro, Mini (2) Mac OS X (10.4.8) 30" Monitor

Rich - I'm using the WhiBal product with excellent success. I shoot the target at the scene (easily carried on a lanyard around my neck) and then process in Aperture with the White Balance tool. BTW, when positioning the tool, I use the loupe option set to show color values to insure that I'm getting the most neutral point....you can learn about the WhiBal gizmo from video tutorials on the web site: http://www.rawworkflow.com/products/whibal/index.html
I hope this is helpful in some way...your discussion of using curves to do this is something new to me, so you may be beyond this point.
Good Luck.
david
MP, PB12 Mac OS X (10.4.8)

Aperture - Nikon D2X White Balance

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