AVCHD vs HDV

Well im sure i could exreact this info if i had the time to read a million threads but i dont. So im gonna have to ask afraid!
I still edit and deliver all of my stuff in Standard Def so i High Def has not been necessary for me up until now.
Ive always had a few techniques to try and acheive a 25p film like effect for years .. started with FAST's Video Machine DP/R (Probably none of you remember that?!) but never was really satisfied with the results.
Secondly, I want to enter into High Def as I know its only a matter of time before im asked.
I've pretty much narrowed it down to the Sony HDR V1E (im PAL) as it has impressive slow motion ability, and probably thebest 25p ive seen, or at least viewed from YouTube!
My Question is a simple one (i hope)
Am i at any disadvantage editing with FCP2 HDV than ACVHD? My budget wont allow me to go over the price of a V1E.
Any construcive thoughts/insruction most welcome.
thanks.

Hi there,
The reason why people are opposed to HDV can largely be summed up as follows
1. compression - its highly compressed, an 'HD' signal squeezed into the same datarate (roughly) as DV. Not great for highly detailed shots with movement in them, You'll see all sorts of compression artifacts in there. Also the 4.2.0 chroma sampling makes grading/compositing poor compared to DVCProHD.
2. HDV Long GOP format - check Wikipedia for details. but basically each shot as recorded to tape has its own structure to allow the compression to work, some frames have all the detail, others don't. but the compression works it all out as long as you don't edit the shot. As editors, we clearly edit shots, so when we make a cut the CPU in your mac has to re-order the long gop structure to allow the compression to play a viewable image. This sounds fine (depending on the power of your mac)until you start doing any one of the normal editing things, multilayering, filters long sequences etc. Then your mac may struggle. You also have to render to play out to tape.
For both of these reasons most people choose to ingest their footage as DVCproHD or ProRes. doubling (at leaast) your storage requirements over straight DV. but giving you a better editing environment. Don't forget though that it will still have been compressed going to tape.
In short if you can't afford DVCProHD go for HDV and use the workarounds as pointed out. If you can find a DVCProHD solution for under £2500 go for it (you can claim the VAT back against your business!) you won't be disappointed
Have fun
Regards
Andy

Similar Messages

  • AVCHD to HDV

    Premiere Elements can import AVCHD but not export. Right?
    Which means  that editing AVCHD means convert to HDV. AVCHD is mpg4 compressed with  resolution 1920*1080. HDV is mpg2 compressed with resolution 1440*1080, which at  playback is interpolated to 1920*1080.
    As far as I can see, this means  that editing AVCHD means loss of data. Because the film must be recoded to  another technical standard, which has lower resolution.
    And after  creating an HDV file, it may be relevant to turn that file into BLU-RAY, which  should mean one more change of technical standard. Right?
    How to minimize  loss of information?
    And yes, I understand that if I first create one HDV  file, and then cut away part of it, there will be a new recoding, which should  mean more loss of information.

    There would be virtually no loss of data in interpolating frame size. Certainly no more so than in going from AVCHD or HDV to BluRay disc.
    And, in Premiere Elements 9, the program edits AVCHD natively, if you select the right project preset for your camcorder. So there is no file conversion until you output your video.

  • AVCHD or HDV for Premiere Pro CS4?

    Hi,
    I have a P4, 2.8Ghz, 2G Ram with XP Pro. I hear rumblings that AVCHD is kinda a nightmare with Premiere CS4 in terms of playback stutter. Ultimately I want the least frustrating editing experience I can have with PPCS4. I'm prone to punching my desk if things get too bogged or buggy while dealing with software so I guess my question is this: Would PPCS4 be happier with AVCHD or HDV given my system?
    Thanks,
    Matt.

    Matt,
    I had a heftier machine than that and AVCHD was completely unworkable. As mentioned, you need some serious horses if you're going to do HD.
    Based on a lot of excellent advice here (meaning solid, useful info even if it wasn't what I wanted to hear) I bought a heftier box and CS4 / AVCHD works just dandy now.
    If you can't afford a new box, I'd convert your footage to SD and work in that format, or you'll have bloody knuckles from punching your desk all day.
    And I second the reference to John, Hunt and Harm posts on hardware matters with great enthusiasm.

  • Convert AVCHD to HDV via Toast 9?

    Hi
    I wonder if i can use Toast 9 to convert my AVCHD files from my Sony SR11 to HDV 1080i50 direct, so I can work with those files in my FCS1 (FCP5.1.4) ?
    Right now I have a problem since i have to use IMovie 08 to import my 1920x1080 "Full HD" to AIC, and then use Mpeg Streamclip to convert AIC to HDV 1080i50
    This procedure takes forewer.
    Could Toast 9 be the solution to my problems?
    Cheers
    Hans

    Thank you. very much.
    That will save me some money
    I know the best solution would be to upgrade to FCS 2, but right now I am saving money to buy a Sony HDV camera. and the SR11 will be the ”B-cam”.
    That is the reason I would like to convert the AVCHD to HDV
    That combination would work fine with FCS 1 and I could wait a bit before I upgrade becuse I will probably have to buy a new computer aswell at the same time.
    My upgrade will probably be to FCS 3 when that comes out sometime next year !?
    Once again
    Thank you
    Cheers
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  • FCE4 output from AVCHD to HDV

    Hi
    I'm currently using a Sony HDR-SR10e camcorder AVCHD format and editing in Final Cut Express 4.
    I wanting to use a Sony M15 HDV deck to capture in HDV mode but not having much success.
    Is there any settings I need to enable me to do this.
    All my footage is on an external hard drive and I'm wondering if its a problem daisy chaining the drive to the laptop and then to the deck.
    The laptop i'm using is an Apple MacBook Pro 2006 edition with an intel dual processor and 2Gb of Ram.
    Hope someone can help.
    Thanks

    Hi Tom
    I'm running 4.0.1 which gives me AVCHD 1920x1080 50i.
    I didn't use the log and transfer, I imported it straight to iMovie 9 then I used the import from File menu in FCE4.
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    The deck i'm trying to output to is a Sony M15 HDV deck.

  • AVCHD or HDV..Yet Another Discussion

    Hello all,
    Yes I am still struggling with this.
    I have been downloading AVCHD footage and converting to mpeg and for the most part it edits well on my Alien M17 Quad Core, even though it hicups now and then. My biggest struggle is the conversion time:
    - Using AVS4You, it takes about 5 minutes to convert 1 minute of native AVCHD footage to Mpeg. That would be 5 hours for 1 hour of shooting!! That is what I am struggling with the most. Yes an hour of HDV footage would probably take me 90 minutes of real time to bring into PE7. So why would I want to wait 5 hours for AVCHD. It seems that the SD convenience gets thing overshadowed by the long conversion time. Plus, from what I understand, HDV is a proven workflow in PE7.
    Is there a faster converter? Am I missng something here? Should I ask for a logical decision from Dr. Spock?
    Ed, I know you are going to way in on this. Any other thoughts from the forum would be greatly appreciated, because I am getting ready to pull the trigger on the Canon XH-A1 HDV camera.
    Thanks, Stan

    I'm oddly comforted by the fact that AVCHD is in such a state of disarray right now.
    I kept thinking they're be some clear-cut answer and kept getting frustrated that I couldn't find it / figure it out.
    Now, I've come to understand the problem isn't me... it's AVCHD. Seems to be a complete mess of incompatible implementations and huge PC editing demands.
    Frankly, I'm not thrilled with either option.
    HDV is a reliable, proven workflow. But it's tape-based (a minor annoyance - I've been living with tape for 20 years), requires separate timecode splitting (why on earth isn't PRE doing this, seriously, how hard could it be?), and is only 1440x1080 resolution. Oddly, I've seen references to 1920x1080 HDV but also references to the fact that that would impossible since the spec only supports 1440x1080... hmmm.
    AVCHD seems like it's just not ready for prime-time. The hard drive and flash drive media are definite plusses, but the format itself... maybe in a few years?
    If I had to pick the least objectionable, I'd go with HDV.
    But, sadly Steve may be right. I looked on Sony's website the other day, and every HD camera was AVCHD except their shoulder-mounted pro version (yeah, I want to carry THAT around DisneyWorld).
    So, quite frankly, I may just wait until the AVCHD world gets it act together before I part with my $$$. Dunno......

  • AVCHD or HDV for your Editing?

    Hi,
    when come to the Editing stage, which is the format that you work pretty well and easier, HDV or AVCHD?

    what media are you using? solid sate? (non-tape)?
    I use use HDV (SONY V1E) and AVCHD (CANON HF100) but edit both in ProRes. ProRes is a very high quality editing codec, up to about 145Mb/s or 225Mb/s (HQ) which is going to be way more than your source footage. You can only ingest material as ProRes not ProRes (HQ).. but this wont be an issue as mentioned above.
    Once your material is ingested FCP will auto detect your sequence settings once you start to place your clips in the timeline.
    Tip (slightly off topic): Check your sequence Render settings: bit depth, if you are working with high qulaity graphics or serious about colour correction best to use the higher 10bit setting (from 8bit or RGB), and set your render quality to BEST (from Normal).

  • AVCHD to HDV question

    I've edited some AVCHD footage injesting in Pro Res 422 and I was wondering if there is any way of outputing it in HDV on my Sony deck?

    I normally shoot HDV, but I recently bought a beautiful Panasonic HD camcorder that shoots AVCHD. My naive plan was to import the AVCHD footage, edit it and then export it to my HDV deck and make a Hi Def master.
    When I attempt to do this FCP declares, "Print to Video does not support this". When I convert the project to Quick time HDV and then open it in FCP, "Print to video says does not support this"
    You might ask, "Why are you wasting your time when there is so much to watch on TV?". You'd be right and interestingly you can perform this obviously needed task, with Pinnacle easily on a PC for 99 bucks.....sorry but just a bit fed up that a £700 piece of software, ie Final Cut Studio can't deal with this without a huge hassle.

  • AVCHD vs HDV file sizes

    I just read AVCHD to AIC files balloon to roughly 10 times. Are AVCHD files imported to iMovie larger than HDV imported to iMovie? What sort of files sizes are we talking for HDV compared to AVCHD?
    How taxing are files THAT large on a C2D MacBook Pro w/ 3gb RAM? Am I setting myself up for the hours of the spinning wheel?

    Are AVCHD files imported to iMovie larger than HDV imported to iMovie?
    They should be of roughly equivalent size for a given duration and dimensions as both are converted to AIC/AIFF for editing.
    What sort of files sizes are we talking for HDV compared to AVCHD?
    As indicated above, if both file types are of the same duration and dimensions, they should be nearly equivalent in size when imported/converted to iMovie '08. As to actual file size, AIC is more compressed than DV files and so an AIC encoded SD file would be smaller than an equivalent DV file. On the other hand, HD content contains more data than an SD file of the same duration and so would still be larger than the DV file. Since the data rate is proportional to the dimensions of the file being imported and the file size is proportional to the data rate being used in each case, there is no way to answer your question without you providing some concrete parameters on which to base even "ball park" estimations here.
    How taxing are files THAT large on a C2D MacBook Pro w/ 3gb RAM? Am I setting myself up for the hours of the spinning wheel?
    No practical experience here to make a response. And besides, you did not give any idea as to the the unit's clocking speed for comparisons.

  • HDV & AVCHD

    Quality-wise, is HDV superior to AVCHD?

    +The reason for the question is in my experience shoots are always longer than you anticipate, tapes are easy to change and store. How easy is a hdd to replace?+
    Alaskaman -- I don't think you can replace a hard disk that is filled. If it's filled, you are SOL until you capture it onto your Mac/PC and then erase the hard disk.
    I don't know very much about AVCHD versus HDV except for what I read online. I don't have an AVCHD camcorder (using HDR-HC1). However, as others have pointed out, it goes beyond just the format.
    For example, in my real life experience, I am still using the HDR-HC1 although I am looking to get a more "pro" camera. But that is another topic. Relevant to the present discussion is the fact that ALL of my friends/family who have gotten the newfangled hard disk or flash memory card based models sort of regret doing so because it is a lot of hassle for them to have to get the video out, when their storage fills up. And they don't always have time to do so.
    The problem is, when you've got an event to shoot, or a vacation to go onto, and you are out of storage, what do you do? Buy a new camcorder?! Buy *yet another* memory card/stick? Try to upgrade the hard disk yourself without waiting for technical services to do so?
    With a miniDV tape system, I just buy another pack of 5 tapes. Cheap storage that I can archive.
    Don't get me wrong; I would enjoy the speed of not having to play tape to capture video into my Mac, but that cam would definitely be a secondary cam and not a primary, and I would probably only record B-roll with that (the way I do with my photo camera sometimes in video mode).

  • AVCHD/HDV  files with a MacBook Pro

    I'm trying to decide between a AVCHD and HDV camera. A lot of people warn against the hardware needed to work with AVCHD files. But, are AVCHD files any more processor heavy than HDV? Once the files are imported, aren't both AIC at that point?
    I am on a 2.16ghz Core 2 Duo with iMovie 8?

    I have cut/pasted this from another thread where I posted it following a question from a Canon HV20 owner. The info applies to all HDV and AVCHD cams though. Might help you decide.
    Compression (7.0)
    The Canon HV20 (Review, Specs, Recent News, $903) uses HDV compression, a very efficient MPEG-2 codec with a fixed data rate of 25Mbps, identical to the data rate of standard definition DV compression. HDV excels in capturing stunningly high-resolution video, but it is inferior to DV in terms of rendering motion realistically, due to its dependence on interframe compression. This means that at 1080i, only one in fifteen frames is a full-frame picture, while the intervening frames are compressed in relation to each full I frame. Interframe compression is much more efficient than intraframe compression, and allows HDV to squeeze a full 1920 x 1080 picture into a 25Mbps stream, recordable to inexpensive MiniDV tapes. DV uses intraframe compression, so each frame is a fully independent picture, allowing much better motion capture. DV also uses a superior 4:1:1 color space while HDV encodes via a truncated 4:2:0 color space.
    The inherent weaknesses of HDV have led many networks to deem the format sub-standard for broadcast, but it is still the best high definition format available on the consumer camcorder market. Most consumers find the stunning resolution of HDV trumps the superior motion handling of DV. A professionally lit HDV interview (or any HDV shot without too much detail or motion) can look nearly as good as footage shot in a professional HD format on a $20,000 camera. AVCHD, a new HD format that uses H.264 compression was introduced in 2006 and compresses video even more aggressively than HDV. Our tests of Canon's UX1 (Review, Specs, Recent News, $729.95) and SR1 (Review, Specs, Recent News, $1119.99) last fall show that while AVCHD video is very sharp, it suffers from grain and artifacts much more than HDV compression. The wildcard in the consumer high definition arena is a new MPEG-2 format developed by JVC, the MPEG Transfer Stream codec, which appears for the first time in the Everio HD7 (Review, Specs, Recent News, $1529). MPEG Transport Stream compresses video at up to 30Mbps, and may rival or even outclass HDV compression.
    Media (6.0)
    Like other HDV camcorders, the Canon HV20 records to MiniDV cassettes, the same inexpensive and widely available format used by standard definition DV camcorders. MiniDV cassettes have a run time of 60 minutes in SP mode, but can hold up to 90 minutes of more compressed LP video. Unlike the DVD, memory card, and HDD formats, MiniDV tapes are linear media so moving clips to a PC from tape is a real-time process. For anyone serious about the quality of his or her video, HDV recorded to MiniDV cassette remains the best consumer HD option available. To date, consumer non-linear video formats do not support the highest-quality video compression codices for high definition (HDV) and standard definition (DV).

  • What is the correct way to import AVCHD into Final Cut Express?

    The Final Cut Expres user manual (p. 221) says to import AVCHD footage with HDV Apple Intermediate Codec: "Important: Use the HDV - Apple Intermediate Codec Easy Setup for ingesting AVCHD footage."
    But, Easy Setup has options for both HDV AIC AND AVCHD AIC.  Why are there choices for AVCHD if the manual says to import AVCHD with HDV?

    The manual is incorrect/human error/typo.
    HDV and AVCHD do share the Apple Intermediate Codec as all this incoming footage will be converted to AIC so FCE can work with it on a frame by frame basis.
    Call up the FCE>Easy Setups and look at the options.
    You will notice 6 options (FCE 4.0.1) for 1080i with differing frame sizes and frame rates.
    Only ONE of these is correct for the type of footage to be captured/ingested from the camera.
    You need to know what the camera settings are, then output to FCE with an exact matching Easy Setup.
    These days one camera can be set to different options making this decision one based on knowing how to operate the camera menu and select the right options.
    When an FCE Easy Setup is changed only NEW Sequences will reflect the change not existing ones. In fact, in many cases, if the Easy Setup and incoming footage don't match it simply won't work causing the user to curse the Apple software.
    First step is to select the correct Easy Setup then capture/ingest.
    For AVCHD it will be an AVCHD - Apple Intermediate Codec........................
    Example:
    Camera has shot AVCHD 1920x1080i50
    Easy Setup will be AVCHD - Apple Intermedaite Codec 1920x1080i50
    The above example is for PAL interlaced, that's what i50 means.
    NOTE:   FCE will not work directly with p (progressive) footage so make sure your camera shoots i (interlaced).
    Al

  • Workflow for importing AVCHD files

    Hi there I know this has been asked before but given that I am struggling with the new purchase of a Panasonic HMC150 (Avchd) vs HDV (tape) I am wondering how others are finding working with the AVCHD footage. Are you importing through Log and Transfer and letting FCP re-compress or are you using other software to convert over to .mov or .mpeg etc? I am a little hesitant of seeing the math that 60 minutes = 60-70 Gb of hard drive space. What do people do for archiving Just keep dumping onto TB drives? Any insight or scenarios would be GREATLY appreciated!

    I make disk images of the camera's cards in Disk Utility.
    The transcoded footage will be stored for several months at first in its editable format, just in case.
    For the project archive I save just the project file and any elements that did not come from the camera, such as graphics or music.
    The project can be accurately rebuilt by mounting the disk images and batch capturing once more if need be.
    Of course, hard drives have never been cheaper. Depending on how valuable your projects are, you could just keep buying huge 1 or 2 TB drives.

  • Importing HDV footage - seems you don't want to use Premiere (?)

    Hi everyone, and good morning.
    Well, after many great posts, and lots of help here, I think I realize something....
    If you own a camcorder that does HDV footage ( like my Canon H20 ), you must use something other than Premiere to import your original footage from the camcorder, if you wish to do any type of editing in Premiere later on.
    If I understand what you have all told me that is.
    For clarfication, last week, I imported my first HDV tape using Premiere, and the resulting file was a very high quality .mpeg file, however, it was not editable in Premiere at all. The audio and video were totally out of sync.
    So, I then re-captured the original video from the camera into Pinnacle Studio 11, and this resulted in 2 files, a video and audio file. ( .wav and a .m2v file ). These files import into Premiere very well, and the audio and video is perfectly in sync from beginning to end.
    With all this said, is there any point at all in keeping the original .mpeg file that I originally captured from the camcorder into Premiere ???
    At this point, I don't see any advantage to this, but thought I would ask. I've read numerous posts that .mpeg is just not great for editing, etc,etc, so perhaps I should just delete this file, and keep going the route I'm now using ( capturing the original camcorder footage with Pinnacle Studio 11 ) (?? )
    I also wonder, if one only owns Premiere, then what on earth do you do, if you have an HDV camcorder ? ( perhaps all of you that own one of these camcorders, capture the video footage from the camcorder, in a program other than Premiere ? )
    Thanks for any info you may wish to give,
    Dave.

    I am not so sure the problem is always restricted to CS3 captured footage. I convert from AVCHD to HDV (usually using Elecard, or Procoder etc) and find that if I stitch the output into a longish single HDV file then although that hdv file plays ok in a player, and is in sync - it loses sync when imported into PP CS3 - but is OK in other NLEs (well Vegas) Seems to me that CS3 cannot hold sync if (some) hdv clips are simply longish. Bad bug!- although seems it's being worked on according to similar threads

  • AVCHD and premiere problem!

    Computer I have to use is triple-core, 2.10 GH.z, 32-bit Vista, RAM 2 Gt, so not the best one. I shot my footage with Canon legria HF200 and Im using Adobe premiere CS4.
    Main problem is that I can't see the playback in realtime, it's laggy and Im getting pissed off.
    First of all, should I just covert these mts-files to some other format. I believe my computer can't handle those huge AVCHD files. The footage is for school movie so the quality should be good but it doesn't have to be the best.
    What sequence preset should I choose when I'm not even sure about the settings of the camera. I know its AVCHD and it was 25fps and 1920x1080 so do I choose AVCHD-> 1080i or 1080p or what? And how about then if I convert these mts to some other format, which setting do I use then?
    What format do you recommend? AVI??? Quicktime??? What should I do?
    Thanks for the help!

    Convert AVCHD to HDV
    http://forums.adobe.com/thread/390605?tstart=0
    or use Cineform Neo Scene http://www.cineform.com/neoscene/

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