Color mgt and prophoto rgb

I have been told that lots of printers cant "read" adobe rgb. I have a canon p9000 which reads adobe rgb great. If I send files to the printer in prophoto rgb, will the printer be able to interpret them?
Should I first create a tiff or jpg with adobe rgb and then send it to the printer?
Please advise.
Andy

Well, the mathematician in me can't help but analyze this ;-)
Assuming you've been printing for 20 years, that's 1,000,000 per year, which comes to about 2,740 prints per day (every day). Assuming you sleep 8 hrs per night, leaving 16 hours minus potty breaks, eating, whatnot, say you print for 10 hours, that's 274 prints per hour or 4.5 prints per minute or about one print per 15 seconds.
Man... you got to get a life!

Similar Messages

Color problem with ProPhoto RGB color space

Hi, everyone,
I have wery special problem I think. I use MacBook pro 15" with retina display, adobe Photoshop CC and when I export RAW (from Nikon D7000) from Lightroom 5 to Photoshop with settings: 16 bit TIF, color space: ProPhoto RGB I have a problem with displaying the correct colors. As you can see in this picture:
My problem are some "green" artefacts in absolutely black and white picture. I tried myself to solve this problem and found the following facts: when I convert picture into Adobe RGB or sRGB color space is everything OK - without green artefacts.
But here is one important fact: I have calibrated monitor by datacolor spyder4elite and problem with ProPhoto RGB incorrect color displaying is only when the color calibration configuration is loaded. When I change my display calibration to standard apple color LCD profile than is everything OK.
But using uncalibrated monitor and also Adobe RGB color space are no right solutions for me.
My question is why I have problem with displaying ProPhoto RGB color space in photoshop under calibrated monitor profile and can anybody help me please?
Thanks for answers.

That's a classic example of the basic problem with 16 bit color. There is no solution that I know of.

Adobe RGB and Prophoto RGB interventions

I want to apply the same tonal intervention on two copy of the same image, the first in Prophoro RGB and the second converted in Adobe RGB.To apply the same tonal interventions I have to keep in account the different gamma (1.8 vs 2.2)?
For example, if in the adobe rgb version I apply a one point curve (input 128 output 172), can I apply the same input/output curve to the prophoto version or shoul I calculate the corresponding tonal values in gamma 1.8 encoding?
Thank you
Marco

What's the point of the exercise? Is there any reason why using color management tools that are currently in place (Convert to Profile) would not work?

Why does Lightroom (and Photoshop) use AdobeRGB and/or ProPhoto RGB as default color spaces, when most monitors are standard gamut (sRGB) and cannot display the benefits of those wider gamuts?

I've asked this in a couple other places online as I try to wrap my head around color management, but the answer continues to elude me. That, or I've had it explained and I just didn't comprehend. So I continue. My confusion is this: everywhere it seems, experts and gurus and teachers and generally good, kind people of knowledge claim the benefits (in most instances, though not all) of working in AdobeRGB and ProPhoto RGB. And yet nobody seems to mention that the majority of people - including presumably many of those championing the wider gamut color spaces - are working on standard gamut displays. And to my mind, this is a huge oversight. What it means is, at best, those working this way are seeing nothing different than photos edited/output in sRGB, because [fortunately] the photos they took didn't include colors that exceeded sRGB's real estate. But at worst, they're editing blind, and probably messing up their work. That landscape they shot with all those lush greens that sRGB can't handle? Well, if they're working in AdobeRGB on a standard gamut display, they can't see those greens either. So, as I understand it, the color managed software is going to algorithmically reign in that wild green and bring it down to sRGB's turf (and this I believe is where relative and perceptual rendering intents come into play), and give them the best approximation, within the display's gamut capabilities. But now this person is editing thinking they're in AdobeRGB, thinking that green is AdobeRGB's green, but it's not. So any changes they make to this image, they're making to an image that's displaying to their eyes as sRGB, even if the color space is, technically, AdobeRGB. So they save, output this image as an AdobeRGB file, unaware that [they] altered it seeing inaccurate color. The person who opens this file on a wide gamut monitor, in the appropriate (wide gamut) color space, is now going to see this image "accurately" for the first time. Only it was edited by someone who hadn't seen it accurately. So who know what it looks like. And if the person who edited it is there, they'd be like, "wait, that's not what I sent you!"
Am I wrong? I feel like I'm in the Twilight Zone. I shoot everything RAW, and I someday would love to see these photos opened up in a nice, big color space. And since they're RAW, I will, and probably not too far in the future. But right now I export everything to sRGB, because - internet standards aside - I don't know anybody who I'd share my photos with, who has a wide gamut monitor. I mean, as far as I know, most standard gamut monitors can't even display 100% sRGB! I just bought a really nice QHD display marketed toward design and photography professionals, and I don't think it's 100. I thought of getting the wide gamut version, but was advised to stay away because so much of my day-to-day usage would be with things that didn't utilize those gamuts, and generally speaking, my colors would be off. So I went with the standard gamut, like 99% of everybody else.
So what should I do? As it is, I have my Photoshop color space set to sRGB. I just read that Lightroom as its default uses ProPhoto in the Develop module, and AdobeRGB in the Library (for previews and such).
Thanks for any help!
Michael

Okay. Going bigger is better, do so when you can (in 16-bit). Darn, those TIFs are big though. So, ideally, one really doesn't want to take the picture to Photoshop until one has to, right? Because as long as it's in LR, it's going to be a comparatively small file (a dozen or two MBs vs say 150 as a TIF). And doesn't LR's develop module use the same 'engine' or something, as ACR plug-in? So if your adjustments are basic, able to be done in either LR Develop, or PS ACR, all things being equal, choose to stay in LR?
ssprengel Apr 28, 2015 9:40 PM
PS RGB Workspace: ProPhotoRGB and I convert any 8-bit documents to 16-bit before doing any adjustments.
Why does one convert 8-bit pics to 16-bit? Not sure if this is an apt comparison, but it seems to me that that's kind of like upscaling, in video. Which I've always taken to mean adding redundant information to a file so that it 'fits' the larger canvas, but to no material improvement. In the case of video, I think I'd rather watch a 1080p movie on an HD (1080) screen (here I go again with my pixel-to-pixel prejudice), than watch a 1080p movie on a 4K TV, upscaled. But I'm ready to be wrong here, too. Maybe there would be no discernible difference? Maybe even though the source material were 1080p, I could still sit closer to the 4K TV, because of the smaller and more densely packed array of pixels. Or maybe I only get that benefit when it's a 4K picture on a 4K screen? Anyway, this is probably a different can of worms. I'm assuming that in the case of photo editing, converting from 8 to 16-bit allows one more room to work before bad things start to happen?
I'm recent to Lightroom and still in the process of organizing from Aperture. Being forced to "this is your life" through all the years (I don't recommend!), I realize probably all of my pictures older than 7 years ago are jpeg, and probably low-fi at that. I'm wondering how I should handle them, if and when I do. I'm noting your settings, ssprengel.
ssprengel Apr 28, 2015 9:40 PM
I save my PS intermediate or final master copy of my work as a 16-bit TIF still in the ProPhotoRGB, and only when I'm ready to share the image do I convert to sRGB then 8-bits, in that order, then do File / Save As: Format=JPG.
Part of the same question, I guess - why convert back to 8-bits? Is it for the recipient? Do some machines not read 16-bit? Something else?
For those of you working in these larger color spaces and not working with a wide gamut display, I'd love to know if there are any reasons you choose not to. Because I guess my biggest concern in all of this has been tied to what we're potentially losing by not seeing the breadth of the color space we work in represented while making value adjustments to our images. Based on what several have said here, it seems that the instances when our displays are unable to represent something as intended are infrequent, and when they do arise, they're usually not extreme.
Simon G E Garrett Apr 29, 2015 4:57 AM
With 8 bits, there are 256 possible values. If you use those 8 bits to cover a wider range of colours, then the difference between two adjacent values - between 100 and 101, say - is a larger difference in colour. With ProPhoto RGB in 8-bits there is a chance that this is visible, so a smooth colour wedge might look like a staircase. Hence ProPhoto RGB files might need to be kept as 16-bit TIFs, which of course are much, much bigger than 8-bit jpegs.
Over the course of my 'studies' I came across a side-by-side comparison of either two color spaces and how they handled value gradations, or 8-bit vs 16-bit in the same color space. One was a very smooth gradient, and the other was more like a series of columns, or as you say, a staircase. Maybe it was comparing sRGB with AdobeRGB, both as 8-bit. And how they handled the same "section" of value change. They're both working with 256 choices, right? So there might be some instances where, in 8-bit, the (numerically) same segment of values is smoother in sRGB than in AdobeRGB, no? Because of the example Simon illustrated above?
Oh, also -- in my Lumix LX100 the options for color space are sRGB or AdobeRGB. Am I correct to say that when I'm shooting RAW, these are irrelevant or ignored? I know there are instances (certain camera effects) where the camera forces the shot as a jpeg, and usually in that instance I believe it will be forced sRGB.
Thanks again. I think it's time to change some settings..

PS CS with color space set to Prophoto RGB - will ACR change embedded profiles?

Probably a foolish question but my problem is that I have a mixture of files:
My own files (all initially RAW (NEF) which I import into ACR as 16 bit Prophoto RGB ).
Files from family members and from slide scanning performed elsewhere - they are in 2 groups:
The first of these from elsewhere acquired files were all JPEGs that I converted to Tiffs in Bridge before setting out to edit them-- all unfortunately 8bit and sRGB.
The scanned files were scanned as tiffs but also 8bit and sRGB.
My normal procedure is that I in ACR I have set the files to 16 bit and Prophoto RGB. In PS the same but also to preserve embedded profiles. I have the impression that working with the "foreign" files in 16 bit does give me more room for editing but that I should continue with the embedded profiles.
Is there a way to ensure that the color profiles are not changed in ACR even if the line in the middle below says 16 bit Prophoto RGB (I have PS CS5). I would hate to have to change this line each time I view a file in ACR. I would hate more to loose the editing facilities in ACR as these acquired files do need som special care before they are mixed with my own in our family albums. I prefer the 16 bit Prophoto RGB option for my own files as I like to play with them - i.e. apart from including them in Photo Albums.
I do see that a logical way is to process all the acquired files before going to my own files but it is so much more practical for me to work with a mixture of the files sorted chronologically - a year or month at the time.
I would even consider getting an upgrade to CS6 if this version could help me.
Can someone enligthen me?
Thanks, Git

Hi, Tom.
The real issue here is getting accurate color. You can't get accurate color by setting your monitor profile to sRGB. sRGB is a virtual color space that doesn't describe the exact color gamut of any physical device. But, in order to display sRGB or any color space accurately, you need to get a characterization of your monitor.
Here is an AWESOME way to get access to a colorimeter: http://www.lensrentals.com/rent/pantone-huey-colorimeter Looks like for $32 you can rent this for a week. Go in on this with a friend and profile both of your monitors and hardly pay a thing. If you have a reasonably good quality LCD monitor, this custom profile you make will be fairly accurate for many months. At the very least, this is way more accurate than having no regular calibration at all.
Hope this helps!
Bret

Color Mgt in LR/10.6/Epson Inkjets

I'm fedup with the little game of footsie Adobe calls a "robust" print module in Lightroom. I've read blogs, downloaded drivers and spent time with Applecare and still LR sometimes works and sometimes doesn't. Photoshop, by contrast, DOES have a robust color management interface. It's simple to use and is stable. Why can't Adobe see fit to to adapt the same software to Lightroom which is otherwise a great program?
Two action steps I want Adobe to take (and these do not require "expert" reassurances to the contrary) 1. Send a software patch update replacing the ENTIRE Lightroom print module with one similar to that found in PS (CS4) 2.Provide a simple, direct, down-to-earth, non-technical algorithm that tells you in dumbed down English how to configure both printer-controlled color mgt and application controlled color mgt. in Lightroom
Normally, I don't like to read posts that are as gritty as this one, but, I do not have the time, patience or money to drag this out forever and I am very frustrated. Hopefully, future posts will deal with more solvable problems that inevitably arise in such complex things as software programs.
BTW, any instability I've experienced is most probably NOT the fault of Snow Leopard, the Mac Pro, OR Epson printer drivers.
Respectfully,
A Designer (not a techie)

MadManChan2000 wrote:
Hi Dave,
Unfortunately I do not have a complete listing of exactly which drivers (i.e., for which printer models) need to be brought to Snow Leopard compatibility. This is the practical information that would likely help you the most.
On the technical side, Apple is in the process of switching over to a new printing system. Applications and drivers both need to be updated to use the new system (e.g., for true 64-bit support, etc.); eventually the old system will be taken down. LR and CS4 have both been updated to use the new system. When using Snow Leopard-compliant drivers that also support the new system, prints come out fine. When using drivers that have not yet been updated to use Apple's new printing system, prints come out very off - e.g., very dark, or with a strong cast. The usual reaction - an understandable one - is that it is Adobe's applications that are at fault, since sometimes the older software (such as CS3, which used the old printing system) still prints fine; the logic is that the new Adobe version (e.g., CS4, LR) doesn't print fine, so it must be Adobe's new code that is at fault. Like I said, I understand why users would come to this conclusion, but unfortunately it is incorrect in this case, and there is not much that Adobe can do, since Adobe is simply following the printing procedure requested by Apple. I know that Apple is working with the printer makers to bring everything into line, so hopefully after the initial hiccups, everything will settle down and photographers can go back to making prints instead of fighting with color management.
Eric
To the excellent Mr Chan.
Once again you have provided a clear, useful and credible contribution to very understandable frustrations. In the past couple of weeks I have surfed the Adobe and Apple boards, and in doing so gained little direction from either. And certainly nothing of subsatnce or help from Epson. Now I, at least, understand a little about what my problem is; and that my problem is being worked. Thank you for the information. What a great call they made when getting you to join in on these forums.

Missing ProPhoto RGB and Mini Bridge in CS5 version 12.0.4??

I am missing the ProPhoto RGB in the Color Settings in Photoshop CS5.
Also the Mini Bridge in Photoshop CS5 just shows Waiting for Bridge, but never retrieves anything. I did a video to show the problems in detail at:
Thank you for any help you can give.
Windows 7 Ultimate 64 Bit, Intel i5, 4GB Ram, ATI Radeon 5400

Thanks for you information.
I have installed all the pre-requiste softwares and packages as per this link
www.oracle-base.com/articles/apps/OracleApps_12_InstallationOnOEL45.php.
installdbf.log --> exited with 0
ApplyDatabase_05130109.log --> ApplyDatabase Completed Successfully.
adconfig.log --> AutoConfig is exiting with status 0
NetServiceHandler.log --> adgentns.pl exiting with status 0
I see the following error message at the end of this log file appsutil/log/$CONTEXT_NAME/MMDDHHMM.log.
FINISHED INSTALL PHASE : DATABASE : Tue May 13 01:57:39 EDT 2008
/training/trn/oracle/TRN1/db/tech_st/10.2.0/temp/TRN1_varsha/adrundb.sh has succeeded
java.lang.NoClassDefFoundError: oracle/apps/ad/tools/configuration/NetServiceHandler
Please refer to the remaining logs on applications node at - /training/trn/oracle/TRN1/inst/apps/TRN1_varsha/logs/05130035.log
I have installed OEL4 and made the requiredchanges
Does this mean you have already installed all
pre-req. software/packages?
It completed step 1 100% and during step 2 around66%
Please review the following log files for further
details about the error:
<RDBMS
ORACLE_HOME>/appsutil/log/$CONTEXT_NAME/installdbf.log
<RDBMS
ORACLE_HOME>/appsutil/log/$CONTEXT_NAME/adcrdb_<SID>.l
og
<RDBMS
ORACLE_HOME>/appsutil/log$CONTEXT_NAME/ApplyDatabase_<
MMDDHHMM>.log
<RDBMS
ORACLE_HOME>/appsutil/log/$CONTEXT_NAME/<MMDDHHMM>/adc
onfig.log
<RDBMS
ORACLE_HOME>/appsutil/log/$CONTEXT_NAME/<MMDDHHMM>/Net
ServiceHandler.log

When to use ProPhoto RGB color space?

I've read articles recommending to use ProPhoto RGB color space because the color gamut is greater. At the same time, I've had to convert some images I created using ProPhoto RGB templates to sRGB so they will display with the right colors in applications that don't support it. I'm wondering (just curious) when it is appropriate to use this color space. Is it only for professional graphic image designers and photographers who send their images to a professional printer?

in addition to what ssprengel said and some of it may be in other words:
There are several standard profiles listed in a separate section in the menus displaying color profiles when you use Assign Profile, Convert to Profile, and when you choose Working Spaces in the Color Settings. These profiles are so called 'well behaved' or 'editing' color spaces. They are device independent and created synthetically for editing purposes - in these color spaces R=G=B is perfectly neutral gray which makes the numbers of color values make sense when editing images referring to the numbers, histograms, curves, etc. ProPhoto RGB is one of these spaces and have the widest gamut, parts of which exceed the visible spectrum. This allows you to have an image with colors that are not limited to the color gamut of eventual destination color spaces like printers and monitors. That's why some people prefer to use Prophoto RGB for images with destination unknown. When you know the destination, in your case an online printing service, get the color profile used by the printing service, install it on your computer, and use convert (Edit menu > Convert to Profile) from ProPhotoRGB to the color profile of the printer. The color management trys to make the conversion to the best possible color match when the destination color space is with a narrower color gamut and you may see color shift of the colors outside the color gamut of the destination. You can also use soft proof (View > Proof Colors with View > Proof Setup set to the destination profile) to edit (optimize) the colors of your document to the destination before the conversion if you can do better than the color management conversion. It is a good idea to make this on a copy of the original image or different layers dedicated to editing colors for a particular destination (color space).
Also have in mind that the conversion can be done on any other computer with Photoshop provided that along with your image they have the source and destination profile. So it can be done by your printer too but without the printers profile on your computer you wont' be able to proof and edit the final appearance.
If you create or edit your artwork or photos with destination unknown in a color space with a comparatively narrower gamut then when in the future you have the opportunity to use a destination with a wider color space you won't be able to take advantage from all possible colors.

How to fix color shift when converting ProPhoto rgb to srgb IE61966-2.1

How do I fix the color shift when converting my photos in photoshop to srgb for the web. I work in lightroom color space prophoto rgb and after editing in photoshop I convert it over but I get a shift in the colors. Thanks

are you working in 16-bit (ProPhotoRGB, you probably should be)
exactly how are you doing the Conversion
MAKE SURE YOU ARE NOT CONVERTING ANY ADJUSTMENT LAYERS (flatten or merge them before convert)
AND MAKE SURE YOU ARE VIEWING THE PROBLEM AREA AT 100% ACTUAL PIXELS when you do the convert

Can't find ProPhoto RGB in drop down list in Color Settings

I am trying to change my Color Settings in PSCS4 in Windows 7 64 bit computer. I am printing in Lightroom so would like to change my Color Settings in PSCS4 from Adobe RGB to ProPhoto RGB. When I go to the Color Settings Dialog Box in CS4 and go to Working Spaces, the drop down list choices under RGB do not include ProPhoto RGB. They just include Adobe RGB, Color Match RGB, Monitor RGB, Apple RGB and sRGB. I am not given the choice of ProPhoto RGB.
What am I missing here?
How can I change my Color Settings to Adobe ProPhoto RGB in Windows 7 64 bit computer using PSCS4?
Thanks,
Matthew Kraus

Well it appears in the drop-down list in my
Settings dialog using Vista 64.
Have you updated CS4 to version 11.0.1?
You could also try resetting your preferences as described in the FAQ.
http://forums.adobe.com/thread/375776?tstart=0
You either have to physically delete (or rename) the preference files or, if using the Alt, Ctrl, and Shift method, be sure that you get a confirmation dialog.
This resets all settings in Photoshop to factory defaults.
A complete uninstall/re-install will not affect the preferences and a corrupt file there may be causing the problem.

Matching Raster and Vector RGB color in InDesign CS3.

We print on a Durst Lambda RGB imaging device to photographic paper. All color management is done as an early bind (raster files are converted to the printer's color space and vector colors are chosen from a palette database). So basically the files must go through InDesign without any color change in raster or vector information. We have clients that require specific RGB builds for logo colors the are present in both their raster and vector files.
Color Management is set to "North American General Purpose 2" with "RGB: Preserve Embedded Profiles" selected.
1) The file is exported as a PDF 1.4, High Quality, PDF/X_None.
2) The PDF was ripped on a Cheetah RIP (Jaws level 3) with no color management on.
3) Solid raster colors such as 0-255-0 will reproduce as 0-255-1.
4) The color differences between the raster and vector are usually 1-4 points.
5) The vector is consistent as was input in the programit's only the raster that changes. When you are trying to match raster and vectors logo colors it is a killer.
However, I can go into the InDesign (or Illustrator) color settings and turn color management off (This is our current workflow). In doing this the RGB working space uses the monitor profile and "color management policies" are set to OFF. With these settings the RGB raster and vector match. The problem with this work flow is two fold:
1) We have other devices than our RGB Durst Lambda that can use the InDesign color managementVutek flat bed 3200 and grand format 3360.
2) We have had many occurrences where the custom "color management off" settings have reverted back to the default "North American General Purpose 2"without any intervention.
I have tried this with different RIP's with the same results.
Does anyone have an idea to create a simple PDF workflow and keep the color information consistent?
Program: InDesign CS3 5.0.2
Platform: Mac OS 10.5.2
Computer: G5 tower with 4 gigs of RAM

I believe that setting is an old Illustrator setting that has been saved to effectively turn the color management off. The monitor profile effects the image displayedit doesn't effect the color transform.
Anyway, the color management I want to use is the "North American General Purpose 2".
To reiterate:
The procedure:
1) The file is exported as a PDF 1.4, High Quality, PDF/X_None.
2) The PDF was ripped on a Cheetah RIP (Jaws level 3) with no color management on.
The Problem:
3) Solid raster colors such as 0-255-0 will reproduce as 0-255-1It changes from the original raster color placed in InDesign.
4) The color differences between the raster and vector are usually 1-4 points.
5) The vector is consistent as was input in the programit's only the raster that changes. When you are trying to match raster and vectors logo colors it is a killer.
To summarize, the color of the raster file will change from the original that was place into the documenteven though nothing was selected in InDesign that would change the color (i.e. profile conversion to an output profile or a transparency effect used). The change is slightbut there.

New ICC v4 sRGB Color Space May Prevent Clipping Converting From ProPhoto RGB

Just discovered and tried out this new sRGB color space downloaded from this page:
http://www.color.org/srgbprofiles.xalter
Here's a cropped demo with histograms of a raw image I've been working on in ProPhotoRGB in ACR 3.7 and CS2:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/26078880@N02/2874068887/sizes/o/
Please disregard the PRMG name in the demo. I got confused as to which was which on that site and thought that this version of sRGB was a PRMG=(Perceptual Reference Medium Gamut) profile. It's called sRGB_v4_ICC_preference.icc.
Note the different color shifts using the Perceptual intent and unchecking Black Point Compensation=(BPC). Neat little features embedded in this profile, but not sure about how it renders certain colors close to clipping in the shadows. That site doesn't recommend mixed use of ICC v4 with v2 color spaces and output device profiles but I did it anyway just to see what it does.
Who knows this may be the equivalent of handing scissors to children, but I'm just one of those curious children and thought I'ld share anyway.

I'll try to respond to a few items above.
The digital values in a Pro Photo RGB file should generally be the same as for a ROMM RGB file. The exception is that all possible Pro Photo RGB values are "legal" but not all ROMM RGB values are "legal." ISO 22028-2 restricts the legal ROMM values to those with PCS LAB values between 0 and 100 L* and -128 to +128 a* and b*.
There is no enforcement if you use the illegal values in a ROMM file but as some of these values do not represent possible colors this is not advisable. I think it is good practice to try to stay mostly inside the ICC v4 PRM gamut with Pro Photo/ROMM images. You can check this using the gamut warning profile on the ICC site.
If you have a Pro Photo RGB image you should just assign the ROMM profile to it. Converting to ROMM RGB should not change anything in the ideal sense but there is the possibility to introduce rounding errors and mismatch black points.
The main difference between the Pro Photo RGB profile and the ROMM RGB profile is the former includes black scaling to zero (as is common with v2 color space and display profiles) and the latter does not (as is required with v4 profiles).
In the duck picture, the reason for the difference is the ROMM profile black is at L*=3 so this is where the lowest blacks land when converting MRC to v2 sRGB (which has the sRGB blacks scaled to L*=0). In this case leaving BPC off is analogous to turning on "Simulate Black Ink" in Photoshop Proof Setup.
All the ACR color space choices are v2 profiles with black scaling. If you want a v4 profile embedded you have to assign it (if you have a corresponding v4 profile) or convert to it.
Both the sRGB and PRM gamuts fit within the ROMM RGB legal encoding range, but if you use a v2 profile with black scaling you should always turn on BPC when combining with a v4 profile. Otherwise the v4 profile will think the v2 profile represents a device with an infinite dynamic range. When BPC is on the Color Engine scales the black point of the source profile to the black point of the destination profile.
The sRGB gamut extends outside the PRM gamut in some places, and the PRM gamut extends outside the sRGB gamut in other places. If you convert using a colorimetric intent in either direction some of the gamut will be clipped. The purpose of the sRGB v4 perceptual transforms is to minimize clipping in both directions.
I can't do this justice here but basically scene-referred images are encodings of the scene colors and output-referred images are encodings of the picture colors on some medium for which the picture colors have been optimized. You can make a scene-referred image by setting the ACR sliders (except the white balance sliders) to zero and the curves tab to linear. You make an output-referred image when you adjust the sliders to non-zero values to make a nice picture as viewed on some medium. For example you might adjust the sliders differently to get the best results printing colorimetrically on glossy photo paper vs. on plain office paper.
Often an important part of the transform to output-referred includes a midtone contrast and saturation boost. While there will likely be some highlight and may be some shadow compression, it is misleading to think of this transform only as a compression to some output medium dynamic range. In some cases the output medium dynamic range is larger than that of the scene.
Usually the transform to output-referred is more complicated than a simple gamma function.
Regardless of the image state (scene-referred or output-referred) the sRGB, Adobe RGB, or Pro Photo RGB nonlinearities will be applied to create the image data that you open into Photoshop.
We are working in the ICC to prepare more information for posting on this topic.

Indesign RGB color problems and JPEG export

How do I get a bright red or bright lime green RGB jpeg to show properly on an InDesign page? I click on New Color Swatch, Color Mode: Web and select a web safe color, yet when I draw it on the page, the colors are incredibly dark and less saturated, like it's converting to CMYK colors.
Also, when exporting to jpeg the colors are still dark and less saturated, yet if I copy and paste each page from InDesign into Photoshop, the colors are bright and saturated as intended. Doing this for each page is out of the question for my project, since I need to convert 130 similar pages into Web-bright jpegs. The export to jpeg doesn't seem to work in my favor either. So what gives?
I tried changing color profiles, too, RGB set to sRGB and Adobe RGB 1998. CMYK set to SWOP No luck. Help!

Please post this question under its own topic with a subject line that
actually relates to the question. Include details, like how you're
converting TIF to JPG, *why* you're converting TIF to JPG (TIFFs work
just fine in Word and Powerpoint), and how any of this relates to
Indesign. Include platform, ID version. Most important, tell us *in what
way* your colleagues can no longer insert your jpgs: Do they get an
error message?
Kenneth Benson
Pegasus Type, Inc.
www.pegtype.com

Why do Adobe Color CC and Indesign CC not convert CMYK to RGB the same?

I recently used Adobe Color CC to create a color theme that will be used for both print and web. I created the theme with approved CMYK values with the intent of saving the .ASE file to be imported into other CC apps. Corresponding RGB, Hex, Lab and HSB values are automatically created. Of course, we are using CMYK for print and RGB for web
A coworker had separately created the same exact CMYK theme in InDesign CC, and created RGB values from the same exact CMYK values I had used in Adobe Color.
The InDesign RGB values are quite different from the Adobe Color values.
Anyone know why the values are not the same, and moreover, which CMYK to RGB conversion values may be relied upon for accuracy?
EDIT: I guess the real question should be, What are the color management settings built-in to Adobe Color CC, and can they be duplicated in desktop Adobe CC applications?
Thanks very much

I found what change it to normal way, but logicaly it's should not be a reason for autoconvert colors. If I choose CMYK and want add CMYK color it should be CMYK (in name minimum) and not RGB.
File->Documents Colors->CMYK(should be, but RGB was)
Right now options open like CMYK, not HSB. But if I want color in RGB it added like CMYK. Options like in CMYK, not HSB, again. Still look like error.

In the toolbar I click on color face and see the RGB color space view. How do I put them into CMYK?

In the toolbar left I click on color face and see the RGB color space view. How do I put them into CMYK?
German:
In der Werkzeugleiste klicke ich auf Farbfläche und sehe den RGB-Farbraumansicht. Wie stelle ich diese in CMYK um?

I design print material. I hope Adobe will change it.
The ID Color Picker works the same as Photoshop's classic color picker except that it doesn't have an H,S,B presentation (which is the more intuitive interface). So both programs let you choose an R, G, B and L, a, b presentation of color via the 6 radio buttons, and you can pick RGB, Lab or CMYK versions of the chosen color—the mode you get depends on where your cursor is. If you pick an out-of-gamut CMYK color it is brought into gamut in the Swatches or Color panels after you click OK.
So here I'm picking RGB, Lab and CMYK Swatches or Colors of the color selection because my cursor is in a respective RGB, Lab or CMYK field, note that the Add Swatch button changes accordingly:
When I click inside the color field, the CMYK values are a color managed conversion of the chosen color, but I also have the option of entering any value. So it would be unlikely I would get a blue gray color like 50|0|0|50 with a color managed conversion, but I have the option to enter those specific numbers.
The 3 versions of the color added as swatches
An InDesign document can have a mix of RGB, Lab, and CMYK colors. Colors and swatches can be converted to any CMYK destination space when you export or print.

Color mgt and prophoto rgb

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