PS CS with color space set to Prophoto RGB - will ACR change embedded profiles?

Probably a foolish question but my problem is that I have a mixture of files:
My own files (all initially RAW (NEF) which I import into ACR as 16 bit Prophoto RGB ).
Files from family members and from slide scanning performed elsewhere - they are in 2 groups:
The first of these from elsewhere acquired files were all JPEGs that I converted to Tiffs in Bridge before setting out to edit them-- all unfortunately 8bit and sRGB.
The scanned files were scanned as tiffs but also 8bit and sRGB.
My normal procedure is that I in ACR I have set the files to 16 bit and Prophoto RGB. In PS the same but also to preserve embedded profiles. I have the impression that working with the "foreign" files in 16 bit does give me more room for editing but that I should continue with the embedded profiles.
Is there a way to ensure that the color profiles are not changed in ACR even if the line in the middle below says 16 bit Prophoto RGB (I have PS CS5). I would hate to have to change this line each time I view a file in ACR. I would hate more to loose the editing facilities in ACR as these acquired files do need som special care before they are mixed with my own in our family albums. I prefer the 16 bit Prophoto RGB option for my own files as I like to play with them - i.e. apart from including them in Photo Albums.
I do see that a logical way is to process all the acquired files before going to my own files but it is so much more practical for me to work with a mixture of the files sorted chronologically - a year or month at the time.
I would even consider getting an upgrade to CS6 if this version could help me.
Can someone enligthen me?
Thanks, Git

Hi, Tom.
The real issue here is getting accurate color. You can't get accurate color by setting your monitor profile to sRGB. sRGB is a virtual color space that doesn't describe the exact color gamut of any physical device. But, in order to display sRGB or any color space accurately, you need to get a characterization of your monitor.
Here is an AWESOME way to get access to a colorimeter: http://www.lensrentals.com/rent/pantone-huey-colorimeter Looks like for $32 you can rent this for a week. Go in on this with a friend and profile both of your monitors and hardly pay a thing. If you have a reasonably good quality LCD monitor, this custom profile you make will be fairly accurate for many months. At the very least, this is way more accurate than having no regular calibration at all.
Hope this helps!
Bret

Similar Messages

Color Spaces CIE and Adobe RGB

Looking at monitor specs, usually, the color space of the monitor is given in terms of a target color space, like 96% Adobe RGB. Some give several, but along comes Dell, u2412, and they supply one: 82% CIE.
I know what CIE is, but making a guesstimate from the Dell spec requires more than what I presently know about such matters.
So, what are the expectations? Is that a meaningful spec for comparison sake? IOW, how much does Adobe RGB enclose CIE 1976?
TIA
Lawrence

I went back to here:
http://forums.adobe.com/thread/916368?start=0&tstart=0
and ran some of those checks with the various presentations. Also, embarrassingly, I did know about the site but failed to go back when I looked for any test results for the 2412.
sic transit Gloria!
I also generated a step tablet in PS, as well as doing several calibration reruns. I did a calibration in "Standard"ode and one in "Custom" where I had access to RGB controls.
TFT Central did the same and claimed that the Custom was more troublesome and didn't yield any significant improvement. I beg to differ!
Also, they made available the results of the Standard and Custom as an ICC profile for users and I defy anyone to tell me there is no significant difference. Between my two calibrations and TFT's, I have 4 flavors from which to choose. Wow! I'm impressed (NOT!)
At any rate I settled on using my custom version as it shows the most neutral gray. It also showed the smaller dE both average and max deviation, 0.34 and 1.2 respectively, the only one exceeding 1.0. It also was close to the factory default than the others.
What a way to run a railroad!
The other fussbudget item is X-Rite. I doesn't like calibrating LCD. It manages to skip over steps along the way, and if I hadn't the experience and expectations step to step with my crt, I would probably be returning the Dell at this time. The differences from the data pov between my Custom and Average should be barely visible, but in fact, it is visually significant. Normal conclusions would hold the monitor at fault.
Off to contact X-Rite.
Lawrence

Photoshop not seeing export color space setting in Lightroom 4

MY LR or PS programs are not acting as expected.
When my Lightroom 4 is set to export to Photoshop in either the sRGB color space or the AdobeRGB color space, and Photoshop is set for the sRGB space, Photoshop gives a color mismatch error in both cases, saying the image is an AdobeRGB embedded image. However, if the color space in PS is set for AdobeRGB, even if the export setting in Lightroom is sRGB, there is no mismatch error.
Apparently, PS sees every image as embedded with AdobeRGB.
I have a Sony NEX6 camera. I have taken pictures in the camera sRGB color space and the AdobeRGB space, which I used for this test. Since I shoot in RAW, this should not matter, so I don’t think it is the issue, and, in fact, I get the same result no matter which color space the camera is in.
If LR export and PS color space are the same, why should there be a mismatch, and why is PS not seeing the sRGB space? Might there be a setting in Lightroom or Photoshop that I am missing?

howdego wrote:
I am, however, trying to decide on the right color space to use, which is how I noticed this problem. I rarely make prints of my photos. I make bluray movies using Proshow Producer. I recently got a new monitor and Samsung LED HDTV, and found that my photo videos did not display right and I am trying to find out why. I found the normal viewing settings of the TV have too much color and sharpness, so I established another group of settings for photos, which helped. However, I am still not satisfied.
These are two separate but related issues.
1) It's almost impossible to get accurate Color and Luminance level rendering inside LR if you don't use a hardware monitor calibrator to adjust your computer monitor.
2) LCD TV's use settings to "enhance" color, brightness, and contrast that is usually very, very inacuuarte. But this is what most non-photography people seem to like so TV manufacturers crank up the "default settings." I also have an older 52" Samsung TV (LN-T5265F) that I've manually adjusted for more accurate color. Try using the 'Movie' mode, which is the most accurate mode and turn the Backlight setting down. Here are the settings I use with my Samsung TV. I assume your Samsung TV's controls are similar:
Setup Screens
HDMI 1 (Cable Box) & Coax (Cable)
HDMI 2 (Panasonic Blu-Ray Player)
PICTURE - 1
Movie
Standard
Dynamic
Movie
Standard
Dynamic
Contrast
82
82
82
82
82
82
Brightness
43
45
45
43
45
45
Sharpness
25
25
35
15
15
25
Color
42
45
45
44
45
45
Tint
77 R
77 R
84 R
77 R
77 R
84 R
Backlight
5
6
7
5
5
6
PICTURE - 2
Color Tone
Normal
Normal
Normal
Normal
Normal
Normal
Detailed Settings
Black Adjust
Off
NA
NA
Off
NA
NA
Dynamic Contrast
Low
NA
NA
Low
NA
NA
Gamma
-1
NA
NA
-1
NA
NA
Color Space
Auto
NA
NA
Auto
NA
NA
White Balance
R-Offset
13
NA
NA
13
NA
NA
G-Offset
15
NA
NA
15
NA
NA
B-Offset
17
NA
NA
17
NA
NA
R-Gain
15
NA
NA
15
NA
NA
G-Gain
12
NA
NA
12
NA
NA
B-Gain
17
NA
NA
17
NA
NA
My Color Control
Pink
15
NA
NA
15
NA
NA
Green
15
NA
NA
15
NA
NA
Blue
15
NA
NA
15
NA
NA
White
15
NA
NA
15
NA
NA
Edge Ehnacement
On
NA
NA
On
NA
NA
xvYCC
Off
NA
NA
Off
NA
NA
Digital NR
Low
Low
Low
Low
Low
Low
Active Color
Off(NA)
Off(NA)
Off
Off(NA)
Off(NA)
Off
Dnie
Off(NA)
Off
Off
Off(NA)
Off
Off
SETUP - Screen 2
Energy Saving
Off
Off
Off
Off
Off
Off
SETUP - Screen 3
HDMI Black Level
Low
Low
Low
Low
Low
Low
Film Mode
Off(NA)
Off(NA)
Off(NA)
Off(NA)
Off(NA)
Off(NA)
howdego wrote:
So it occurred to me that some colors might be wrong, or too saturated, because I am not seeing them on my monitor as they will appear on the HDTV. I am thinking that since sRGB is my final color space, I would try to do everything in the sRGB space, including setting my monitor to sRGB (I have a Dell 2413 which supports adobeRGB too). I was inn the process of trying this when I found the issue at hand. Might you have any thoughts about this color space choice
If you have a wide-gamut monitor you are better off using it in Adobe RGB mode with a monitor calibrator. But then the monitor will not look correct in non-color managed applications:
http://www.gballard.net/photoshop/srgb_wide_gamut.html
You can circumvent this issue by using your monitor in sRGB mode, but I'd still suggest you use a hardware monitor calibrator. Either way it is imortatnt that you have a proper monitor profile assigned in Windows or OS X Color Management. The monitor manufacturer provides these, but they don't always work well with LR for numerous reasons.
To insure the best image quality you should do all of your editing in PS using 16 bit TIFF with ProPhoto RGB profile format until you are ready to Export. For use with ProShow you can use TIFFs or JPEGs, but use sRGB color profile to avoid any color management issue. JPEGs are fine and a LR Quality higher than 80 (10 in PS) is a waste of disk space for slideshow images.
In short you've got a lot of "variables" between the uncalibrated monitor and out-of-the-box non-adjusted TV. The former requires a good hardware calibrator aad the latter a good "eye" to adjust it.

Asking the Bridge Team: Bridge "working color space" setting when one does not have the Suite?

Common sense tells me there is really no such thing as a
"working color space" in Bridge, because
Bridge is not an image editor, just a browser
Therefore, this may turn out to be a purely academic question; but that doesn't keep my curiosity from forcing me to ask it anyway. ;)
Is there a way to set the Bridge
"color settings" when one does not have the suite?
The only Adobe program I keep up to date is Photoshop, so I've never had the suite. My version of Photoshop is 11 (CS4) and I run updated
(not upgraded) versions of Adobe Acrobat 7.x, Illustrator 10.x and InDesign 2.x. Consequently, the Synchronize color settings command is not available to me.
It seems to me that Bridge is behaving like a proper color-managed browser (e.g. Firefox with color management enabled), in that it displays tagged image files correctly and assumes sRGB for untagged image files. This normally works fine.
But what if I wanted Bridge to assume my
Photoshop color working space for untagged images
so that it behaves the same as Photoshop? I'm just curious, as I deal with a minuscule, practically negligible amount of untagged files.
My reason for bringing it up now is that I don't recall this being explicitly mentioned in forum replies when users inquire about color settings in Bridge. A recent post regarding Version Cue in the Photoshop Macintosh forum got me thinking about this. Just wanting to make sure that I'm right in my assumption that
there is really no such thing as a
"working color space" in Bridge, because Bridge is not an image editor, just a browser.
Thanks in advance.

Hi Ramón,
Thanks for sharing the outcome of your tests. However, I may have found a bug/exception to Bridge's colour management policy!
It appears that CMYK EPS photoshop files are not colour managed in Adobe Bridge, even if they contain an embedded ICC profile.
I've tried every combination in the EPS 'Save As' dialogue box, so it doesn't seem to be an issue with file encoding. Also, Bridge doesn't rely on the low-res preview that is held within the EPS itself.
My guess is that Bridge is previewing the CMYK EPS with a Bridge-generated RGB image, but it's being displayed as monitor RGB (assigned) rather than colour managed (converted to monitor RGB). For most users the difference will be barely perceptible, but the problem became very noticeable when using Bridge to preview Newsprint CMYK images on a wide-gamut monitor (images that should have appeared muted really leapt off the screen!).
How do I report this to the Colour Police at Adobe?!?

Rendering Chroma 4:2:2 with color space 0-255

Hello Everyone.
Just as a warning I'm fairly new to video editing, so I will probably not say this right. I have a screen recording that I used FRAPS to collect, and then I packaged it into an .AVI container w/ a lararith codec , and a 24bit RGB color scheme in video dub. I have then opened and edited that video in Premiere Pro and want to export it. The problem that I'm having is screen recording has a LOT of color between 0-16 and 235-255, so any broadcast color space I use makes the video look awful. I was wondering if anyone knows how I can render out with a 0-255 color space and a decent chroma subsampling (my guess is 4:2:2).
Thank you everyone for your help.

No, you are asking the right question, and I understand your problem. I just can't recreate it.
I just took a really wild Quicktime video I downloaded from Videoblocks.com that isn't anywhere close to being broadcast safe, and I exported it to a Windows Media file.
The first picture is a screenshot from the video. (it is a set of lower thirds in one video - I am just supposed to use one at a time of course.
The second picture is the Reference monitor from frame 12;24
I exported the sequence to a Windows Media file and then imported it, putting it right on top of the other video on the sequence so I could make sure to be on the exact same frame. The third picture is the reference monitor from the WMV file on the sequence. As you can see, there is not much difference. Some, but you have to look closely.
So, my question to you, since I do not use FRAPS, is what are your sequence setting? Did you just drop a clip on the New button to create a new sequence with the exact right settings? And, are you making the mistake of using the renders to help you export?
The problem is that I don't understand your source material. I guess I could download FRAPS from somewhere and give it a try? I am just a bit busy with other things today.

Color space setting won't hold

My display setting for the color space won’t hold. I’ll set sRGB (Control panel/Display/Change display settings/Advance settings/Monitor Color) close the dialogue and all is well for a nonspecific period of time. At some point the sRGB setting will deselect. I’ll reset it but the cycle goes on and on. Has anyone had this experience or know the whys and wherefores?
System: W701; Windows 7 64; Quadro FX 2800M; hueyPRO
Many Thanks,
Fred
Solved!
Go to Solution.

I had a similar problem with my T410, using Windows 7's Calibrate Display under Color Management in Control Panel and I found two critical issues with keeping color calibrations (profiles) active. The first involves setting Windows up to use the profile and the second involves preventing the graphic card's applications from resetting and loosing the color calibration.
First, in order to get Windows 7 to use your color profile, it must be associated with your display in Color Management under the Devices tab. Also, two check boxes must be checked; the first being Use my settings for this device on the Devices tab and the second is Use Windows display calibration on the Advanced tab. This second check box will remain grayed out until you click Change System Defaults and then clicking the Advanced tab.
It is my understanding that color profiles generated by display calibrators can be loaded and handled by Windows in lieu of the third-party loaders. The following link will shed more light on this use of Windows to load the profiles:
http://www.pusztaiphoto.com/articles/colormgmt/win7/default.aspx
Secondly, the graphics card's user interface modules seem to constantly re-set the video card thereby loosing the color calibrations. These may be disabled under the Startup tab in MSCONFIG. On my machine, I disabled three Intel® Common User Interface items: igfxtray.exe, hkcmd.exe and igfxpers.exe. The following links may shed some more light on this:
http://www.bleepingcomputer.com/forums/topic371918.html
http://answers.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/forum/windows_7-desktop/color-profile-switches-when-compu...
ThinkPad T410, Model #: 2516-CTO/ i7-620M 2.66 GHz, 4 MB L3, Win 7 Pro 64 bit
4 GB PC3-8500 1067 MHz 2 DIMM, Intel GMA 5700MHD – AMT, 500 GB HDD 7200 rpm
DVD Recordable 8x Max Dual Layer, Ultrabay Slim (Serial ATA)

Color space setting for new monitor?

New HP LP2480 monitor.
Has multiple settings for colorspace.
For use with FCS- should I be at adobeRGB or Rec 601 or Rec 709?
(Prior to this I used a Apple display and never messed with settings)
Thanks

Does anyone know the color space used in FCP?
Avid is 601
but I think might FCP might be 701 or RGB- yes? no?

How to fix color shift when converting ProPhoto rgb to srgb IE61966-2.1

How do I fix the color shift when converting my photos in photoshop to srgb for the web. I work in lightroom color space prophoto rgb and after editing in photoshop I convert it over but I get a shift in the colors. Thanks

are you working in 16-bit (ProPhotoRGB, you probably should be)
exactly how are you doing the Conversion
MAKE SURE YOU ARE NOT CONVERTING ANY ADJUSTMENT LAYERS (flatten or merge them before convert)
AND MAKE SURE YOU ARE VIEWING THE PROBLEM AREA AT 100% ACTUAL PIXELS when you do the convert

How to create a column graph with colors per set of values

I need to create with Microsoft Excel, a column graph that based on different values, each column will contain different color.
To be precise:
E.g.:
- Green: If it is 0
- Orange: If it is between 0 and 10
- Red: If it is more than 10
I would appreciate to help me how to do this.

Hi EriValidata,
According to your description, I get the result as shown in the following figure.
Is this a correct result? If yes, this is an excel chart with conditional formatting. Please try the following steps to create the chart.
To accomplish this task, you will need to create three additional columns of data and plot those three columns of data-and not the original column of sales data – in a stacked column chart. As shown in the figure.
And the formula in C2 is: =IF(AND(B2>0,B2<=10),B2,0). The formula shows the value in column C if it falls between the limits in rows 0 and 10; otherwise it shows 0. The formula is filled into the range C2:E4.
Then we select the source data with A2:A4 and C1:E4, as shown in the figure to insert a column chart. The chart now shows 3 sets of colored bars, one for each data range of interest.
And I upload a TEST2.xlsx file on OneDrive, you can download this file via this link:
https://microsoft-my.sharepoint.com/personal/v-lzng_microsoft_com/Documents/Shared with Everyone
Hope it’s helpful.
Regards,

Help with working with color and profiles

Like many others, I suspect, I am having trouble managing the colors on my iMac to match the prints I get. I have a few questions, but first, some background:
1. Screen calibrated with Huey Pantone. Calibration was done with monitor brightness all the way to lowest. I don't use Shades or anything else. I have my Display Profile set to this profile. I'd be happy to post my .icc profile if I knew how. I can email it to anyone who can help here.
2. I have been sending my prints to Costco with the option of turning OFF their Auto Correct. To try to get things to match, I downloaded Costco's printer profiles from http://www.drycreekphoto.com/icc/Profiles/Minnesota_profiles.htm#MN (Eden Prairie, Glossy and Lustre paper profiles).
3. I shoot photos with a Canon XTi with color space set to sRGB. I am using iPhoto 08.
So here are my questions:
1. I loaded the Costco printer profile icc files into /Library/ColorSync/Profiles/Displays. When I open ColorSync, I see them under Profiles/Displays. However, in ColorSync/Devices/Displays/iMac, when I go to change the profile, I navigate to these files but the computer just beeps and won't take them. I thought all icc files could be used by monitors and printers - can these Costco iccs only be used for printers (I noticed the Costco files are 4MB, the other display iccs are 4KB)?
2. How does iPhoto handle color spaces? I import my photos off my CF card. Under iPhoto / Prefs / Advanced, I have both Copy Items and Embed ColorSync Profiles checked. Which color profile is it embedding? The one from the camera (some generic sRGB) or the one my display is using (the Huey)?
3. As a test, I exported my photo as a full size TIFF (a 3.3MB jpeg became a 28MB tiff). I opened the TIFF in Preview. Preview / Tools / Assign Profile came up as "Camera RGB Profile" (so I think this answers question 2 but I'm not sure). While in Preview, if I now change the Display Profile (from Huey to Adobe RGB), the whole screen changes, including the photo I'm looking at in Preview - shouldn't Preview hold the photo the same since it's using a different color profile?
4. I set the Display Profile back to Huey. In Preview, I go back to my photo and under Tools / Assign Profile I assign the profile my Huey profile (instead of Camera RGB). I save this as a jpeg and reimport into iPhoto. When I compare these two photos side by side in iPhoto, they look indistinguishable. Why, if on the original import iPhoto embedded the Camera RGB profile into the photo and I make a copy assigning the Huey profile do they look identical? There's no reason to assume that the Camera RGB and Huey profiles are the same! Or is it some trick where the Display Profile is overriding everything?
5. Lastly, I reopened the original TIFF export in Preview and assigned it the Costco profile (happened to use the glossy one). Lo and behold, what appears on the screen is a much closer version to what I got back as a print. Finally, as one last tweak, I changed my Display Profile from Huey to Adobe RGB and the picture I saw in Preview was closer still to what I got back from Costco. I changed the Display back to Huey, kept the Costco profile assigned and saved my TIFF back to a JPEG. I imported into iPhoto and compared - it looks much closer to my Costco print.
So I'm utterly confused. How do professionals manage their color workflow? Is my Huey calibration whacky? Why, if I assign a color profile to something in Preview, does it really depend on what Display Profile I have set (I thought profiles managed color, but it looks like it's relative).
I apologize for the rather long post, and very much appreciate any help and suggestions here!
Thanks!

The contractual requirements between the vendor and your company may be the key. The contract may or may not discuss whether the vendor's permission to modify the material includes an obligation to make the documents usable. "Usable" may be construed to mean providing original files. If the vendor is required to provide originals, they may or may not be required to provide them in a common format, like MS Word, rather than the proprietary FrameMaker format they use. Their providing a PDF may completely satisfy their obligation; your lawyers may be helpful here.
HTH
Regards,
Peter
Peter Gold
KnowHow ProServices
bmr0330 wrote:
I did ask them for the source file but they haven't been forthcoming with that. I may look into the evaluation copy of FM anyway but considering the price ($868 USD through our catalogue supplier) I doubt I would be able to get a licensed copy once the evaluation runs out. I do appreciate the suggestion though. Thank you. Brian

Why does Lightroom (and Photoshop) use AdobeRGB and/or ProPhoto RGB as default color spaces, when most monitors are standard gamut (sRGB) and cannot display the benefits of those wider gamuts?

I've asked this in a couple other places online as I try to wrap my head around color management, but the answer continues to elude me. That, or I've had it explained and I just didn't comprehend. So I continue. My confusion is this: everywhere it seems, experts and gurus and teachers and generally good, kind people of knowledge claim the benefits (in most instances, though not all) of working in AdobeRGB and ProPhoto RGB. And yet nobody seems to mention that the majority of people - including presumably many of those championing the wider gamut color spaces - are working on standard gamut displays. And to my mind, this is a huge oversight. What it means is, at best, those working this way are seeing nothing different than photos edited/output in sRGB, because [fortunately] the photos they took didn't include colors that exceeded sRGB's real estate. But at worst, they're editing blind, and probably messing up their work. That landscape they shot with all those lush greens that sRGB can't handle? Well, if they're working in AdobeRGB on a standard gamut display, they can't see those greens either. So, as I understand it, the color managed software is going to algorithmically reign in that wild green and bring it down to sRGB's turf (and this I believe is where relative and perceptual rendering intents come into play), and give them the best approximation, within the display's gamut capabilities. But now this person is editing thinking they're in AdobeRGB, thinking that green is AdobeRGB's green, but it's not. So any changes they make to this image, they're making to an image that's displaying to their eyes as sRGB, even if the color space is, technically, AdobeRGB. So they save, output this image as an AdobeRGB file, unaware that [they] altered it seeing inaccurate color. The person who opens this file on a wide gamut monitor, in the appropriate (wide gamut) color space, is now going to see this image "accurately" for the first time. Only it was edited by someone who hadn't seen it accurately. So who know what it looks like. And if the person who edited it is there, they'd be like, "wait, that's not what I sent you!"
Am I wrong? I feel like I'm in the Twilight Zone. I shoot everything RAW, and I someday would love to see these photos opened up in a nice, big color space. And since they're RAW, I will, and probably not too far in the future. But right now I export everything to sRGB, because - internet standards aside - I don't know anybody who I'd share my photos with, who has a wide gamut monitor. I mean, as far as I know, most standard gamut monitors can't even display 100% sRGB! I just bought a really nice QHD display marketed toward design and photography professionals, and I don't think it's 100. I thought of getting the wide gamut version, but was advised to stay away because so much of my day-to-day usage would be with things that didn't utilize those gamuts, and generally speaking, my colors would be off. So I went with the standard gamut, like 99% of everybody else.
So what should I do? As it is, I have my Photoshop color space set to sRGB. I just read that Lightroom as its default uses ProPhoto in the Develop module, and AdobeRGB in the Library (for previews and such).
Thanks for any help!
Michael

Okay. Going bigger is better, do so when you can (in 16-bit). Darn, those TIFs are big though. So, ideally, one really doesn't want to take the picture to Photoshop until one has to, right? Because as long as it's in LR, it's going to be a comparatively small file (a dozen or two MBs vs say 150 as a TIF). And doesn't LR's develop module use the same 'engine' or something, as ACR plug-in? So if your adjustments are basic, able to be done in either LR Develop, or PS ACR, all things being equal, choose to stay in LR?
ssprengel Apr 28, 2015 9:40 PM
PS RGB Workspace: ProPhotoRGB and I convert any 8-bit documents to 16-bit before doing any adjustments.
Why does one convert 8-bit pics to 16-bit? Not sure if this is an apt comparison, but it seems to me that that's kind of like upscaling, in video. Which I've always taken to mean adding redundant information to a file so that it 'fits' the larger canvas, but to no material improvement. In the case of video, I think I'd rather watch a 1080p movie on an HD (1080) screen (here I go again with my pixel-to-pixel prejudice), than watch a 1080p movie on a 4K TV, upscaled. But I'm ready to be wrong here, too. Maybe there would be no discernible difference? Maybe even though the source material were 1080p, I could still sit closer to the 4K TV, because of the smaller and more densely packed array of pixels. Or maybe I only get that benefit when it's a 4K picture on a 4K screen? Anyway, this is probably a different can of worms. I'm assuming that in the case of photo editing, converting from 8 to 16-bit allows one more room to work before bad things start to happen?
I'm recent to Lightroom and still in the process of organizing from Aperture. Being forced to "this is your life" through all the years (I don't recommend!), I realize probably all of my pictures older than 7 years ago are jpeg, and probably low-fi at that. I'm wondering how I should handle them, if and when I do. I'm noting your settings, ssprengel.
ssprengel Apr 28, 2015 9:40 PM
I save my PS intermediate or final master copy of my work as a 16-bit TIF still in the ProPhotoRGB, and only when I'm ready to share the image do I convert to sRGB then 8-bits, in that order, then do File / Save As: Format=JPG.
Part of the same question, I guess - why convert back to 8-bits? Is it for the recipient? Do some machines not read 16-bit? Something else?
For those of you working in these larger color spaces and not working with a wide gamut display, I'd love to know if there are any reasons you choose not to. Because I guess my biggest concern in all of this has been tied to what we're potentially losing by not seeing the breadth of the color space we work in represented while making value adjustments to our images. Based on what several have said here, it seems that the instances when our displays are unable to represent something as intended are infrequent, and when they do arise, they're usually not extreme.
Simon G E Garrett Apr 29, 2015 4:57 AM
With 8 bits, there are 256 possible values. If you use those 8 bits to cover a wider range of colours, then the difference between two adjacent values - between 100 and 101, say - is a larger difference in colour. With ProPhoto RGB in 8-bits there is a chance that this is visible, so a smooth colour wedge might look like a staircase. Hence ProPhoto RGB files might need to be kept as 16-bit TIFs, which of course are much, much bigger than 8-bit jpegs.
Over the course of my 'studies' I came across a side-by-side comparison of either two color spaces and how they handled value gradations, or 8-bit vs 16-bit in the same color space. One was a very smooth gradient, and the other was more like a series of columns, or as you say, a staircase. Maybe it was comparing sRGB with AdobeRGB, both as 8-bit. And how they handled the same "section" of value change. They're both working with 256 choices, right? So there might be some instances where, in 8-bit, the (numerically) same segment of values is smoother in sRGB than in AdobeRGB, no? Because of the example Simon illustrated above?
Oh, also -- in my Lumix LX100 the options for color space are sRGB or AdobeRGB. Am I correct to say that when I'm shooting RAW, these are irrelevant or ignored? I know there are instances (certain camera effects) where the camera forces the shot as a jpeg, and usually in that instance I believe it will be forced sRGB.
Thanks again. I think it's time to change some settings..

How to set PS for the most reliable image previews and how to make sure the color spaces are the same across plateforms

I've been having an ongoing problem with some of my images changing color/luminance values after merging or flattening an image. This seems to most often happen if I use one of the filters (like crosshatch or notepaper, not sharpen or blur). I can make a copy using command/option/shift + E which most often will look exactly like what's on screen.
Some people have suggested that it's to do with resolution, PS showing me a low resolution image but I don't think so because the histogram changes -- sometimes in a big way, but most often those spikes in the luminance levels are shaved off. Also, when I have the image open at 100% and effect a merge/flatten, the color changes.
I'd like to know if there's a way to have PS show me one for one what I'm working on while I'm working on it, or if there is a way to control the color profiles when I'm saving. My best guess at this point is that there is a color profile mismatch going on somewhere. I just don't know where to look for it.
Typically I work in 16 bit, so my color space is set to ProPhoto RGB; my camera is set to the Adobe color space;
color management policies are set to preserve color profiles;
conversion options --> intent is set to relative colorimetric.

But it is calibrated. I use Xrite 1 and update it every month (on the first).
The colors can be really off. Here's an example.
https://flic.kr/p/r6A1Zd (what I want) https://flic.kr/p/qc5QTD (not what I want)
Also, I can't see how the bit depth will have any effect since the change in color happens in PS when I merge or flatten. It's 8 bit through the editing and 8 bit when I flatten it.
Have you any suggestions on what I can do on the computer side?

Needing Help with color setting for Photoshop 4 + imac

Hi, Is anyone able to assist me please. To cut a long story short. i have had to reinstall my original software onto my Imac as when i put on Snow leopard it was just slowing down Photoshop 4 and would keep crashing. So my problem is .... I had some prints printed today at Fuji and the prints have come back dark and just not up to scratch. I know that it is not Fuji, but my settings. I had someone set up my imac and Photoshop last time, but this time i will have to do myself and i just don't know what to set them at. Can anyone help please. Not sure if you need this info but i am in New Zealand. many thanks in advance.

Being in the business of printing other people's image files, I can say without any doubt that the advent of digital image processing has definitely muddied the waters to a much greater extent than was the case when printing negaive film. I'm also a shooter, and have been using such programs for many years, so I can understand the desire to manipulate your files before sending them to the lab. Color negatives never had "Profiles" attached to them. If the proper film was used for the lighting conditions, it was simply up to the lab to make sure the resulting print was in balance, both in color and density. It was also the lab's responsibility to maintain a degree of quality control that would make all of the above possible and repeatable. I have to agree with the other response to your question. Whether or not you have an embidded a profile, it's always the job of the printer to make sure the final print is up to a certain standard of quality. If that is not the case, find another printer. Unless you have indicated that your files should be printed without any corrections, the oweness belongs to the lab/printer. I do have a few customers whose work I can print with very few corrections, due to the fact that they have calibrated their displays and have a very tight workflow. However, the vast majority of files that I print require a considerable degree of correction, that's my job. It's also the job of your lab/printer and if they are nor satisfying your needs you have to find someone who does. I have printed many files that have no profile embidded and I simply convert them to my working color space(Adobe RGB 1998). If you are concerned about doing color settings, this is the obvious place to start. Create a custom space and make sure your working color is set to Adobe RGB 1998, not sRGB. Adobe RGB 1998 is a considerably larger color space with a wider gamut and will allow for more choices and a wider range when it comes to processing the image. Pro Photo RGB is an even larger color space, but one that is seldom used at this time. I suspect it will become more popular in the fairly near future, as other technologies continue to push the color gamut envelope.
So, I guess the gist of all of this is that you need to either have your lab/printer redo the dark prints, or find someone who knows how to print. And equally important, someone who cares about your work as much as yo do.
I am attaching a screen shot of my color settings and I would suggest this might be a good place to start.
Gary

Color space problems

Somewhere the colors seem to get messed up. Viewing in LR and Photoshop the skin tones look pink but when viewing in windows photo gallery on computer or typepad site the skin tones are grey. I have LR and Photoshop set to ProPhoto rgb 16 bit resolution 240, monitor calibrated with spyder 3 and exporting file setting is procolor rgb. Does anyone know what's wrong? Where are my settings getting messed up. It really is messing with my editing b/c I keep trying to put more pink in b/c I know it'll print and web view more grey than I see it in LR/cs3. Very frustrating. At this point I'm afraid to edit any photos b/c nothing is what it seems.
thx for any advice.

>and exporting file setting is procolor rgb. Does anyone know what's wrong?
Yes. You're using prophotoRGB. The other apps you mention are not color managed and thus do not understand the prophotoRGB profile. You need to use the sRGB color space and even then will you see small differences if your screen is correctly calibrated and profiled. Non-managed apps (internet explorer and such) always lie to you color wise, even if you calibrate your screen. Read this excellent (but long) article on this: http://regex.info/blog/photo-tech/color-spaces-page1 If your images are meant for web viewing, ALWAYS use sRGB.
Also consider using a managed browser. Safari is one and Firefox (
using the secret setting) is another. Flash galleries will not be color managed even in those programs however.

Color space conversion problem when importing JPEG's

Hi,
I'm currently playing with the trial version of LR. While importing JPEG's with different color spaces (sRGB and Adobe RGB) to LR I've noticed a strange effect: There is a small but noticable difference in color, depending if the JPEG was previously saved in AdobeRGB, or sRGB. All the images I've tested so far should not contain critical colors that exceed normal sRGB. When opened in CS2 both versions of a JPEG, AdobeRGB and sRGB, typically look perceptually identical, no matter if I leave the sRGB image to sRGB, or convert it to the working space (AdobeRGB). Also my color-managed image viewer behaves as it should. So I don't think it's a matter of the different color spaces.
Looking at the imported images in LR I would say that the AdobeRGB image is correctly converted while the sRGB image suffers from a slight reddish cast, most noticable in skin tones. The effect is not as strong as if I would load the sRGB image into CS2 and skip color conversion to my working space (AdobeRGB).
The sRGB versions of the JPEG's were obtained from the AdobeRGB JPEG's using CS2 for conversion.
Anyone else here experienced a similar problem? Is this a bug in the xRGB-to-ProPhotoRGB conversion of LR, or a feature?
/Steffen

Hi Uli,
thanks for pointing me to your thread. I followed the discussion with great interest. Actually, I think the effect I am describing here is of different nature and a LOT stronger, at least for the type of images I've tested.
I did some more experiments yesterday with interesting results:
1) When I export a processed RAW from LR to JPEG or PSD, no matter what Color Space (I tested AdobeRGB, sRGB and ProphotoRGB), and re-import those JPEG/PSD's to LR, they look absolutely identical to the RAW I started with. Also, at first glance, they look similar when opened in CS2, but only because I tested with color images. I can indeed see small differences when testing with B/W, as you described in your "Color management bug" thread.
2) When I change the color space of an PSD or JPEG inside CS2 (I used the default setting 'relative colorimetric') and save it to JPEG and then import this JPEG to LR, colors are far off. The strength of this mostly reddish color cast depends on the color space of the imported JPEG, strongest for Prophoto, less strong for Adobe and sRGB. Interestingly, when I convert the color space inside CS2 and save the result to PSD, it will display correctly when imported in LR. Another interesting side effect: the thumbnails of LR-exported JPEG's in the "Open" dialogs of CS2 and LR (I guess those are not color-managed) show the typical color-flatness for the Adobe and even more the ProPhoto version. For the CS2-converted JPEG's, all thumbnails look just a colorful as the thumbnail of the sRGB version.
3) Such an image which doesn't display correctly in LR will keep its color cast when exported again to a JPEG (not sure about PSD). So something goes wrong with the color conversion during the import of such CS2-converted images.
My explanation so far is that CS2 uses a slightly different way of coding the colorspace information in the metadata of JPEG's which somehow prevents LR to recognise the color space correctly.
Can you confirm this behaviour?
Steffen

PS CS with color space set to Prophoto RGB - will ACR change embedded profiles?

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