Color profiles of placed Tiff files

Hi,
I'm using CS3 on Mac with 10.4.11. I want to know what happens to a color profile when placed in Illustrator. My color settings in Illustrator are to "Preserve Embedded Profiles". My guess though is that as soon as I choice to embed the .tif, it is converted to the working space. I realize that when I save out of Illustrator as a EPS there is not a profile attached, but is the info still maintained in the document somehow or is it really converted to the working space? Thanks for any info you can give me!
Trese

The way Adobe explains it ( i.e., Designer's Guide to Transparency CS1 ), the "Placed" file is converted to the Illustrator EPS' profile upon mismatch. I disagree with the previous statement that the EPS is "Profileless". The Illustrator EPS has an embedded profile setup in the color settings, which is read by a RIP or printer driver. The key to all of this is to have the "Placed" file's profile match the Illustrator EPS profile, otherwise, there will be a mismatch and the "Placed" file's profile will be converted, or, if yoiu choose, you can assign a profile when you Place the file in Illustrator ( when, if you set it, Illustrator asks you what to do with the profile upon mismatch ). You will encounter fewer problems by issuing the same profile to both the tiff and the Illustrator EPS. This is how I've set it up into an established workflow. There will be deviates, of course, and I think there is enough ways to deal with mismatches when they occur.
The Color Settings you implement in Illustrator are saved in the file and if you save as an EPS, the color information is saved as Postscript data, which, as I understand it, includes the profile you assigned or setup in the color settings. To go a step further, the EPS information can then be read by Distiller and saved in a PDF which should also honor the same profile that came in the EPS. All this comes back to the original tiff's profile, should it not match the Illustrator EPS, then a conversion will take place, but it will be based on the "preserved profile", not some arbitrary assigned conversion, Illustrator just converts based on the embedded profile. This is how I understand it. Others may want to chime in.

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Hi all,
I have recently output a job to print that was supplied .AI with a simple .TIFF image placed on an artboard at its desired crop.
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Close up detailing masking effect: (image below)
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Reading Pages User Guide is often useful.
Yvan KOENIG (VALLAURIS, France) dimanche 18 décembre 2011 22:24:23
iMac 21”5, i7, 2.8 GHz, 12 Gbytes, 1 Tbytes, mac OS X 10.6.8 and 10.7.2
My iDisk is : <http://public.me.com/koenigyvan>
Please : Search for questions similar to your own before submitting them to the community

IWeb 08 screws my photos color profile

Anyone has this problem with the new iWeb 08?
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iWEB 08 is a fully color confused application, whilst iPhoto is only partly color confused.
The following applies when dragging images from iPhoto library, with the "Optimize Images on Import" option on. According to the manual, this option only changes the size, but I would not be surprised if it changes something else also. Then after, exporting from iWEB to files on the hard drive.
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There are three rules to publishing photos on the WEB (files for download is a different story):
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b) There should be an sRGB color profile in the image file, including thumbnails (Otherwise it will NOT display correctly on MacOS, where browsers assume AppleRGB, but will happily adjust to any color profile)
c) Discard unnecessary information in the file to reduce size, such as EXIF information, thumbnails etc (optional rule)
Having said that, you may ask yourself, who do that? Well to tell the truth, not many. A quick check on Apples website reveals that there is a mix of color "strategies". For instance, the pictures demonstrating the cool features of iLife08, appear to be in sRGB but without color profile. Thus, they will be displayed correctly on a MicroSoft system but not on a Mac.
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1) Keep calling Apple Cupertino until they fix the problem (really, I am not joking, I am tired)
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a) Open picture
b) Assign AppleRGB profile
c) Convert to sRGB
d) Assign the original profile (usually sRGB or AdobeRGB or the cameras RGB)
e) Convert to sRGB
f) Save (with option: include color profile)
File is now about 2 times the original
g) Open graphics converter
h) Choose convert...
i) Choose file(s), hold Cmd-key and choose remove resources (which does not remove the color profile)
File is now ok for publishing on the WEB
TIP, if it seems like a daunting task to manually convert all of the exported images (and do not forget the thumbnails), make an Action-script in Photoshop, then use the Batch feature with sub-folders etc .... . Also the graphics converter operation can be applied to include subfolders. I did this, and it works ok, but be sure to only convert YOUR images, not the other files in the structure. I also applied the same conversion to the thumbnails to simpify things and it turned out not to bad. (Can somebody make an AppleScript maybe?)
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If you read all of this, you are a patient person. Thanks for the attention.
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Color profiling in Lightroom

Hi,
I send my photos to a lab for printing. Is there a way to use their color profiles in Lightroom or do I have to go back to Photoshop to do this? And, if I adjust the photo using the labs color profile in Photoshop will Lightroom recognize it?
Thanks,
j.

You can "print" a color managed JPEG file out of Lightroom's print module and select any color profile on your system.(It's a handy way of utilizing the layout features in the print module while using your local lab) You can also select any color profile when exporting your file. The only place where color profiles are limited is the exchange between Lightroom and Photoshop. You can choose between the three most common color spaces at that point.
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Regards,
Tom

Reinstating color profiles

I have a piece of proprietary software which has the unfortunate side-effect of stripping the embedded color profiles from my files.
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I've tried adding the color profile back in using Bridge Tools>Replace Metadata with a suitable metadata template, and this appears to work, in that the line "photoshop:ICCProfile: Adobe RGB (1998)" has been added in the Adobe Photoshop section in the Advanced pane of File Info. But when I try to open the image in Photoshop I get the "The document "XXXX" does not have an embedded RGB profile" dialog.
So, where else is Photoshop looking to find out if there is an embedded color profile? Is there any other way to reinstate the color profile without opening the file?

The name of the color profile in the metadata is not the ICC profile--just it's name.
You'll have to open the file and readd the profile.
I've seen flames over the years on the Photoshop forums about JPEG resaving and degradation. My take on the arguments is that if the image is unedited, a series of JPEG resaves degrades the image quality someplace between a very tiny amount and zero.

Color Profile Issue Vista x64

Hi..
I’m having the a problem but on Windows Vista Business X64. I installed an Acer LCD (X223w Q) yesterday for desktop expansion and updated its drivers automatically it installed the device drivers from God knows where and since then the Photoshop has gone all crazy it always asks to select color profile when opening the file. Claiming that "The RGB document "try.bmp" has a file format that doesn't support embedded color profiles". It does the same for everything.
I’ve tried your solution from the following link
http://lalor.net/index.php/2009/02/photoshop-colour-management-reset/
but the the OS doesn’t allow me to remove any color profile claiming that its system profile and can’t be removed. I’ve un-installed LCD drivers but it color profile Acer X223W is still showing in the advanced panel in ICC profile along with sRGB IEC61966-2.1 both have a file name and a class name 'display' written against them..
I've uninstalled and reinstalled graphics drivers as well as photoshop but nothing seems to be working. No matter what profile I select the photoshop opens it in a dark tint. How ever when I press Ctrl + Y to switch to Proof Colors its gets back to normal colors (My proof settings are set to Monitor RGB)
Following are my System Details
Machine : Lenovo 3000 n200
OS: Windows Vista Business x64
Graphic Card : Nvidia Geforce Go 7300
I've never have had this problem before the installation of drivers for that LCD. And after searching the internet for over a day its driving me crazy
Please review the attachment for details.
I’d really appreciate if anyone could look into this issue..

Well, why not simply set the monitor to sRGB again? The location of the physical files is C:\Windows\System32\Drivers\Printers\Color. You can delete the profile from there. Also reset PS' color management completely (Edit --> Color). I'm sure the warning has its reasons because based on your (wrong) monitor profile PS thinks it needs to compensate based on your CM policies...
Mylenium

Embed color profile for Spot Multichannel

Is it possible to embed a color profile into a multichannel file made up of spot colors onlys ? More specifically can you embed custom dot gain curves into such file like you can for other color spaces like CMYK. ?

As far as I know, there is no connection or relation between gamma and dot gain. However, if your workflow excludes print media, you do not have to indicate any type of dot gain and, therefore, can assign a particular gamma to your "video" intended image ( i.e., television graphics, powerpoint oresentation files, etc. ). So, if you knew you are heading for a 30% dot gain ( i.e. offset press, magazine or newsprint, etc. ), then assign it in the working space dialog in PS. Again, this is my interpretation of gamma vs. dot gain. Once you understand the dynamics of the working space ( i.e., what you typically work on day-to-day )), then it sort of makes sense. I suppose if I were to suddenly be assigned to work on a video graphics project, I could change my gamma and eliminate dot gain because there is none. I'd just have to remember to go back and re-assign dot gain for my print projects. If, for instance, I was chosen to design a logo graphicv for a TV news program, perhaps a gamma of 2.2 would help the appearance of the color's brightness on screen. It comes down to the final application of the file itself. That's my take on it.

The availability of color space in RAW, TIFF and JPEG files

This is useful if your new to DSLR photography.
This is Nikon response on my question in the discussion: View photo metadata
I'm assuming that you know that Adobe RGB shows about 50% and sRGB 35% of CIELAB color space.
In a DSLR camera like the Nikon D800 you can select a color space (Adobe RGB or sRGB) in the shooting menu.
In Adobe Lightroom 4.3 the RAW metadata shows no color space info. Therefore I asked why not?
In the (Dutch) Nikon D800 manual on page 84 (about RAW) and 274 (about color space) and Nikon FAQ website there is no descripton about the color space availability/behavior in RAW, JPEG and TIFF files.
In the book "Mastering the Nikon D800 by Darrel Young" on page 125 - 126 is written: "If you shoot in RAW format a lot, you may want to consider using Adobe RGB....."
All experts on this forum answered: color space does not apply/affect the RAW data file or RAW files have no color space.
The respone of Nikon Europe Support (Robert Vermeulen) was: In Nikon D800 NEF RAW files both color spaces (Adobe RGB and sRGB) are always physically available. In JPEG and TIFF files only the in the shooting menu selected color space is physically available. So the forum experts gave the correct answer!
Of course you can convert afterwards a JPEG or TIFF file with sRGB color space to Adobe RGB but you don't get more colors.
When you install the Microsoft Camera Codec Pack or FastPictureViewer Codec Pack they only show color space metadata for JPEG and TIFF files and nothing for RAW because color space "doesn't exist". I thought the codec packs removed the color space metadata for my RAW files.
Adobe Lightroom also can not show color space for RAW files because that "doesn't exist".

Van-Paul wrote:
The respone of Nikon Europe Support (Robert Vermeulen) was: In Nikon D800 NEF RAW files both color spaces (Adobe RGB and sRGB) are physically available. In JPEG and TIFF files only the in the shooting menu selected color space is physically available.
I still think this is an evasive answer that doesn't really pinpoint the exact chain of events that take place. They are:
1. The raw file contains the naked data captured by the sensor. This is just a very dark grayscale image.
2. In the raw converter it is encoded into a working color space to process the information. In Lightroom this is known as "Melissa RGB", or linear gamma Prophoto. It is also demosaiced to bring back the color information.
3. From Lightroom it can be exported to one of the familiar color spaces like sRGB or Adobe RGB. This is, in principle at least, a normal profile conversion.
These three steps are what the camera does to produce a jpeg. So the basic steps are the same, the camera is just doing it automatically (and usually butchering the image in the process...).
This Darrell Young is, I'm sure, an excellent photographer, but in this he is seriously confused and just propagating a common myth. Anyway, thanks for bringing up this discussion, hope you didn't object too much to the tone of the answers... Our only concern here was to get this right and with no room for misunderstanding.

Color profiles of placed Tiff files

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