Converting RAW to DNG: what information gets lost?

My context: I shoot RAW on Canon cameras and I have no issue with CR2 files. But as I am working in a Adobe work-flow, and I experienced that DNG files are smaller, I would gladly transfer my RAW files to DNG. My only worry here is: I would like to know which information is transferred and which is dropped. I have no problem with dropping info, that I do not use. But I would have problems with throwing away valuable information that is simply not exploited by Adobe. I could store the original RAW file in the DNG stream, but I would not like to have that waste of space...

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Converting RAW to DNG! What are the advantages / disadvantages?

I have Canon cameras and shoot RAW, but the question itself is surely also valid for Nikon, Sony or other brand-shooters.
When importing my pictures to Lightroom, I could convert them to DNG but didn't do this up to now, because I do not know what I loose. I suppose that I loose the ability to process my files with DPP, but I will not do that anyhow. I can appreciate the advantage of having the file in an open documented format, where even I could easily write a reader for it. So the answer should not be what I can easily find in the Adobe introduction into DNG. I have also the DNG specification in front of me, and I can read it, because I once wrote a program to read TIFF files. I understand that I could add the original RAW image stream, but I do not want using up the space wasted for this. I know, that all development parameters used for the specific RAW image can be written with the image file instead of having those stored in a database or a side-car-file.
But what I did not find until now a technical explanation about what happens during the convert. Who can enlighten me? Where do I find the missing technical explanations?
Thanks in advance!
Lucien.

Feierwoon wrote:
That wasn't the question... .
Based on the title of the thread and your initial post, it seems like your question had a lot of
"What are the advantages / disadvantages?"
in it, and only a little
"What happens at a technical level when converting"
But if you want more detailed info about conversion, and you have the aptitude to understand, I recommend doing what Lr5user-pt recommended:
Download the DNG SDK and dig in - all your questions will be answered (and if not, you can also ask DNG-specific technical questions in the DNG forum).
As far as my "sources" regarding the technical summary I presented, they are many and varied, none of which are the DNG SDK. In other words, my knowledge is based more on experience over the years - I don't know all the details under the hood..
Some experiments to consider doing:
* exiftool (-X) a proprietary raw file, then convert to DNG and repeat.
* open a proprietary raw in a DNG-supporting software of your choice and inspect metadata, then open the converted DNG in the same software and re-evaluate. Compare to proprietary raw opened in manufacturer's software, and what you see via exiftool.
Tom Hogarty (Lightroom project manager) and others who know have said: "DNG converter discards no metadata", and I believe them, but haven't verified for myself. Yet once proprietary metadata is in the DNG, most (all?) software will no longer decode it. A prime example is focus points - presumably they're there, but once converted, focus point feature is no longer supported. The amount of work required to support converted focus point data is unknown (to me), but as far as I know, no software has ventured to do it. If you want focus points, don't convert.
If you want the truth, I think for most people it's "not wise" to convert to DNG. Why? because unless you already know why you are converting (and need to convert to satisfy your goals), or you already know why you must NOT convert (e.g. so you can open the files in mfr.software, and see focus points..) the pros and cons are likely to be a wash, and now you have twice the number of raw files, unless you discard your originals, which would be REALLY "not wise", in my opinion. If you find the notion of "openly documented format" sufficiently compelling, then, ya know, more power to ya (I don't judge..), but there is no guarantee that DNG will outlast NEF (or..), and if it does, there will be ample opportunity to convert before you're left in the cold, unless you're stuck in a cave for a few decades, or are kryogenically frozen.. True, if all companies die, you may be able to write your own DNG converter (/reader), given the DNG documentation, but FWIW, NEF is also thoroughly documented (document is in freely downloadable SDK), and reverse engineerable (that's what Adobe and Phil Harvey does), so you could also write your own NEF converter, so not really a very compelling argument, not this year anyway - ask me again in a few decades..
If filesize is a main draw, then be sure NOT to save the hi-rez previews in your DNGs, otherwise you've just lost most or all of the filesize advantage. Also, you can strip previews from some proprietary raws (e.g. NEFs), to reduce filesize.
Personally, if DNG supported sidecars, I would be more likely to convert, because file-management/backup is only an issue if you "forget" about xmp sidecars (and I do not forget), and I'd rather have my xmp in separate ready-to-read xml text files, rather than embedded in binary files, but hey, that's me..
PS - I always use/encourage-others-to-use DNG when distributing raws to others for use in Adobe software, so xmp is not separate and can not get lost.
PPS - proprietary raws and dngs are both just glorified tiff files - raw data, previews, and metadata..
Don't get me wrong: I am NOT anti-DNG, and in fact - just the opposite: I am PRO dng, it's just that I wouldn't (don't) convert my own raws to DNG at this point. If you find the reasons to convert now are sufficiently compelling, you have my complete support and cooperation, fwiw..
Cheers,
Rob

Converted raw (or .dng) will not open in ACR?

OK, now that I've gotten sort-of over the hurdle of synching all the pieces associated with a smart object, I've hit the NEXT hurdle (SOs appear to be the usual double-edged sword - kinda handy in a way but rife with pitfalls and hurdles)...
I open a .NEF in Bridge, go into ACR and open the file as a Smart Object in Photoshop. Double-click the layer icon and I'm back in ACR, just like all the demos and seminars I've watched. But, take the SAME .NEF in Bridge and open it as a standard image in Photoshop, then CONVERT it to a smart object, double-click the layer icon and all I get is a .psd and NOT jump into ACR. It does exactly the same thing with a .dng file And from Lightroom OR ACR...
I found an entry from a discussion (not in here, I couldn't find anything about this in here) about CS3 (yes 3), where a user had this problem and was told it's because the original image was opened as a rasterized image, NOT as a Smart Object from ACR... Which isn't making sense to me 'cause who cares what it was way back when, it's NOW a Smart Object and should be treated like one no matter HOW it got there...
Is there some preference or setting or something I need to change in Photoshop so this will work as expected is is there really some restriction about exactly HOW the Smart Object got created? And if so, is there some paragraph is big, bold letters in the documentation that makes it really clear to the uninformed that you MUST open it as a Smart Object or it won't work?
And yes, I KNOW that in ACR I can set it so it defaults to opening as a Smart Object, but like many other PS users I normally use Lightroom and I haven't seen any such default. Which means it's REALLY easy to forget to go down to the Open as Smart Object and instead just hit Open in Photoshop...

Listen, buddy, no one has any obligation to answer your questions here in this user to user forum. Lose the attitude.
I'll repeat the answer anyway, as you apparently are unable to read replies carefully.
davepinminn wrote:
…CAN I take an image that was opened in Photoshop as a "standard" image, then converted to a smart object and edit it in ACR? If yes, HOW?
No, ABSOLUTELY NOT ! You cannot. Period. That's what I said in post #2 of this thread.
ACR will only open and edit Smart Objects that contain raw data. Any image opened in Photoshop —not as a Smart Öbject—is already cooked and contains no raw data any more. Additionally, ACR can edit JPEGs and TIFFs if you set your preferences accordingly, but with much less latitude and functionality than a raw file.
What's more, the cooked Smart Object 's now in the cooked PSB format (a variation of PSD that can handle much larger files than PSD can) so there's no way on Earth ACR can open it.
davepinminn wrote:
I've gotta remember that people in here will pummel the semantics to death and miss the question…
…and we forum regulars have to remember that some folks come here just to argue, looking for a fight.
Please read this FAQ for advice on how to ask your questions correctly for quicker and better answers:
http://forums.adobe.com/thread/419981?tstart=0
Excerpt:
• Do not be abusive or aggressive in your tone
An aggressive or abusive sounding post will often evoke an aggressive or abusive and unhelpful reply
Remember, you are requesting Help from other users, just like you, who are giving their time free of charge. No one is under any obligation to answer your question.

Lightroom mysteriously deleted files after trying to convert RAW to DNG

Running Lightroom 1.3 on the MacPro 10.4.8
Strange thing happened. I had a catlogue of 11,824 photos yesterday.
The catalog was a mix of RAW and dngs and I wanted to convert the remaining RAWs to DNGS.
All photos were in place, no ? marks before I used "Convert photo to DNG" command. In the Convert photo to DNG I had the boxes for Only Convert RAW files, and Delete originals after successful conversion CHECKED.
I realize I may have been asking way too much for the computer to do, and wasn't surprised when nothing happened for about 5 minutes. Finally I got the message that it couldn't convert because the original file could not be found.
After that 2,268 files were missing. And as the day goes on today, and use the program that number is increasing, even when not asking to convert.
I don't think it's a hardware issue. Ran disk utility and all checks out with that. And the deleted files are on 2 different drives.
Any suggestions? Thanks!

First step I'd check and find the actual images, make note of their file paths. I'd be surprised if any file was truly missing; just that LR has lost the path for whatever reason.
Second, I'd do the conversion on a much smaller scale- in my case, my workflow is such that I choose to convert to DNG when most or all of my work on a folder is done. So I do it pretty much by folder, which generally don't exceed a few hundred images.

Convert raw in dng inside Bridge

I'd like to convert raw files in dng like this:
browse a folder on my hard disk
select the pictures I want to convert
convert them to DNG
but I can't find a way to do this. In LR it can be done.
Any help?

but I can't find a way to do this. In LR it can be done.
Select the files you want to convert and open them in ACR. With multiple files they will appear in filmstripmode. Choose select all and then choose the 'Save Images' Command (bottom left in ACR Window.
From the options for saving choose 'Digital negative and you will see the DNG options appear.
Choose a location and hit OK.

Trading partner information getting lost during the IO and PS settlements

Hello,
When the settlement is run for an internal order or a WBS element, although the primary cost element line has the trading partner information, this information is lost after the settlement process. The settlement can not carry the trading partner detail further. I can see this detail in CO tables or in PS tables before it has been settled. (Tbale name is COSP) But the table that keeps the settled objects (as far as I kow the table name is COSS) does not have the trading partner field in it.
If anyone knows whether there is a way to keep this type of detail after the settlement process has been executed in the system, it would be great.
Thanks
Aysegul Gumus

I am not looking for the tables. What I am looking for is to find out whether there is a way to keep the trading partner information in the settlement process so I can see it in the settled cost lines.
Have you met such a business requirement before?
Aysegul

Trouble converting RAW to DNG from Nikon D90

Hi,
I'm using CS4 and have uploaded the latest Adobe DNGConverter, 8.7.1 and still my raw photos taken with my Nikon D90 don't convert in Bridge or Photoshop.
Anybody have ideas for what to do?
Take care,
Paul

You have to convert the NEFs to DNGs with the converter and then those DNGs should work, but not the original NEFs.
What process are you following that leads to apparent failure? Are you creating DNGs and those don’t work, or are you having troubles even creating the DNGs?

I have tried to convert and this is what I get for an answerFile does not support conversion? How can that be Its a PDF??

File does not support conversion? How can that be Its a PDF??

Hi vang,
Kindly refer this FAQ link:What file formats does Adobe PDF Pack support?
Regards,
Florence

I am not happy with Firefox 4.0 and want to go back to 3.6. How can I do this without my information getting lost? Running Windows 7

I do not like the new format. It is not compatible with my Norton.

Please read this thread:
http://support.mozilla.com/bs/questions/797708

RAW to DNG just some simple advice please

I would like some advice on converting RAW to DNG. I have read on line that it is a good practice to convert all my RAW images to DNG after uploading them. I am using Adobe Lightroom 2.2. When I use "Convert to Linear Image", my files double in size. Should I be using "Preserve RAW Image" ? What is best practice and why? Should I be "embedding original RAW image"? Should I leave it as the one Panasonic/Lumix RAW format?
I am really confused and would appreciate any advice?
I have tried reading all the threads on this site and they are just too technical and confusing for me at this stage. I just want to know that I am following good practice and treating my images in the best possible way. I have much to learn about using Lightroom but would just like to get past what formats to actually use.
Should I be doing all my edits on the jpeg instead and not even bother with the RAW?

Ann,
>I have just tried the time-honoured Photoshop "Difference" Test.
Not disputing the possible veracity of
your conclusion, but
the time-honoured Photoshop "Difference" Test should be reviewed.
Even Bruce Fraser didn't adhere to that test.
If there should be a very small difference in a given pixel, the otherwise 255,255,255 pixel would then appear as 255,254,255 or 254,255,255 or something similar, which you would still
see as black on your monitor, regardless of magnification.
Two better, more definitive testing methods would be (a) one suggested by Bruce Fraser himself (I'll post it if and when I find the exact text), and (b) a new (to me) method suggested by someone in the Color Managament and Photoshop Windows forums, which follows:
(NOTE: only the methodology is of interest and pertinent, not the questionable context in which it has brought up and used.)
* 1) Open the two images to be compared in Photoshop
* 2) Move one image as a layer over the other one
* 3) select "Difference" as blending mode in the layers palette
* 4) now the whole image should appear seemingly black on the monitor
[So far this is the traditional,
"time honored" method.]
* 5) select the magic wand tool with these settings:
Tolerance: 0/
Anti-alias: no/
Contiguous: no/
Sample All Layers: yes
* 6) click somewhere into the formerly gray area
Explanation: you just selected all completely black pixels (0,0,0) i.e. all pixels that are identical in both layers.
* 7) you should see "marching ants" forming rectangular patterns
* 8_) invert the selection (Shift Command I)
Explanation: the selection now covers all the other pixels, i.e. all pixels which are different between both layers.
* 9) create a new empty layer and select it in the layers palette
* 10) set the foreground color to white
* 11) fill the selection with white (Alt+backspace on Windows, accordingly on Mac)
* 12) set the blending modes of all layers back to normal
Explanation: you now see all identical pixels in their respective color
and all different pixels in white.
This method is a lot more sensitive than the traditional one which stops at step #4 above.

RAW to DNG & TIFF to DNG

I have a Fujifilm IS100. I would like to convert RAW to DNG and TIFF to DNG. Could someone advise me what software I would need to do this.
I presently have have Lightroom 3.6 and Elements 4 (I am sure you can see I am on a really tight budget), when I export DNG from Lightroom it ends up in My Pictures as a PSD file, I open it and it opens in Elements 4. I have deleted Elements 4 and the PSD file will not open at all. Do I need another package other than Lightroom, like Elements 11?
Barry Patman

Ian, the answer to the second portion of your query: after you've opened
the image in the Raw Converter and made your adjustments, select the choice
"Open" rather than "Save" at the bottom right. This takes you directly into
the main Editor screen, where you can then save as JPEG, TIFF, and a variety
of other formats. That Save in the RAW converter is a new feature in PE 4,
and I ran into the same dilemma.
Regarding the JPEG that comes along with the RAW, can you open it and see
whether it's a full-size image? It could be a thumbnail. On the other
hand, as Colin suggested, your camera may have a mode that creates an
'embedded' JPEG when shooting in RAW. My Canon's do that.
Chuck

How do i choose what information is synced

i have 1260 albums 550 artists. when i sync my ipod i get thousands of artists, i only want the album artist. how do i limit what information gets sync'd?

The iPod classic only recognizes the artist field, not album artist. You can cut down some of the clutter by setting the compilation flag for compilation albums, and enabling one of the Compilations menu items in the classic menus. To get things really organized however you should also move all guest/featured artist information out of the artist field. There are other issues regarding common album titles such as Greatest Hits. See Grouping tracks into albums for more information.
tt2

Lightroom 5 only converts 1 photo in folder from RAW to DNG

I am fairly new to Lightroom and I am having problems with converting photos from RAW (RW2, Lumix FZ200) to DNG.
I am in Library Mode, select all photos in a folder, go to Library>Convert Photo to DNG and only 1 photo gets converted. I am aware that it says Convert Photo and not Photos but I did not find any other menu item that offered to convert them all.
Any help would be appreciated.
Hans
Edit: I continued to play around and after I synchronized the folder it worked.

Hello and thank you for your reply. When I export, this is what I have used:
File Settings:
Image Format: JPEG
Color Space: sRGB
Quality : 80-100
I have not checked the box for "output sharpening", although I did minor sharpening as part of my edit process in LR.
For Image Sizing, I have not changed anything. This is what is currently selected: "resize to fit" box is checked and "long edge" is selected, 500 pixels. Resolution 72 pixels per inch. The "don't enlarge" button is NOT checked.
I'm hoping this is where my issue resides!!
Thank you!

DNG Converter 8.7.1 not converting RAW files. Windows 7.

DNG Converter is not recognizing any RAW files hence it will not convert anything to DNG. Tried the download a few times and different versions but nothing is happening. I just had the computer repaired and iI have lost the ability to convert CR2 and IIQ files. Previously, before the computer crashed I was able to do so. At the recommendation of the service tech, I went from Windows 8 to 7, since I hated 8 and other machines I work on are 7.
It probably is a simple fix but I have no idea what needs to be done. Please advise.

update your lr to lr 5.7.1
your ps can still be updated, but i can't determine why you're showing an old cr and you've stated you've already updated ps to 13.0.1.3
Downloadable installation files available:
Suites and Programs: CC 2014 | CC | CS6 | CS5.5 | CS5 | CS4 | CS3
Acrobat: XI, X | 9,8 | 9 standard
Premiere Elements: 13 | 12 | 11, 10 | 9, 8, 7 win | 8 mac | 7 mac
Photoshop Elements: 13 |12 | 11, 10 | 9,8,7 win | 8 mac | 7 mac
Lightroom: 5.7.1| 5 | 4 | 3
Captivate: 8 | 7 | 6 | 5
Contribute: CS5 | CS4, CS3
Download and installation help for Adobe links
Download and installation help for Prodesigntools links are listed on most linked pages. They are critical; especially steps 1, 2 and 3. If you click a link that does not have those steps listed, open a second window using the Lightroom 3 link to see those 'Important Instructions'.

Does converting RAW CR2 + XMP convert both of those into the DNG file, or does it just convert the CR2?

This is a stupid question that somehow, after hours of searching, I can't find a definitive answer for:
I have an existing catalog of photos that are stored in .CR2 (Canon RAW) format, plus accompanying XMP sidecar files on the photos I've edited. If I decide to convert those to DNG, does the conversion process automatically pick up the edits I've done from the XMP files and write those edits into the resulting DNG? Or does the conversion process just convert the CR2 --> DNG only, ignoring the XMP sidecar file?
Stupid question, but a really important one!
Bonus question:
Does the conversion process leave the CR2 and XMP files in the folder as they are, and just add the DNG in addition to those? Or does it delete the source CR2 and XMP files, REPLACING those with the DNG?

PenaltyShot wrote:
Have you run into any really important / crucial ones to your workflow that don't support DNG?
really important / crucial?, to me? - never.
Don't get me wrong: some people *love* the feeling they get when deleting the original proprietary raws - like they're standing up for a cause or something. If you are such a person, then by all means: knock yourself out, and enjoy - nothing terrible is likely to happen (unless Adobe goes under and/or DNG format falls flat..).
I have discovered a surprisingly large number of cases where some (Adobe-converted) DNGs were not readable, e.g.
* Bibble
* CaptureOne
* DxO
(note: original proprietary raws were fine).
All of which purport support for DNG (and likely read out-of-camera DNGs from supported models just fine).
And if you search the forums you can discover more..
(in case Adobe responds (rare): "it's not our fault - programmers must not have read the spec closely enough..". On the other hand, Adobe is sometimes a year or so tardy when it comes to releasing the new spec - hmm.. - I guess turn-about is fair play (Nikon is sometimes tardy with NEF documentation which supports new cameras, forcing Adobe to work without (reverse-engineer) for the mean time..).
Two other software's that don't support DNG:
* Canon's DPP (and other Canon software).
* Nikon's NX2 (and other Nikon software).
If you want to display focus points, proprietary raw is required, period.
Me? If I were to bother to convert raw files to DNG, I would do the opposite of what most people do - instead of archiving the originals and using the DNGs, I'd archive the DNGs and use the originals. That way, I can open my photos in any software I choose, and/or see focus points if I feel like it, but if I get cryogenically frozen for a few decades whilst DNG wins the format war, I'll have the DNGs to use.
To each their own, just realize: DNG is not a standard, yet, and may never be, so you are playing the odds (burning bridges) if you discard originals. Adobe really wants it to be a standard, because it gives them an edge over their competitors (since Adobe controls the spec, and when it's released..), so if you want to help ensure Adobe success in the format war, then by all means: delete your originals.
To be clear: I personally support the DNG format, completely. I just don't convert my existing raws to DNG yet, and generally recommend to others who convert: keep your originals.
Rob

Converting RAW to DNG: what information gets lost?

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