Creating Subtitles for Feature Film Documentary

I am finishing up editing work on a Brazil documentary, and I am looking for the best advice in adding subtitling in FCP. In searching the forums, I have came across this,
_*http://www.belle-nuit.com/subtitler/index.html*_
Is this a better way to create subtitles other then just creating a text layer in FCP and creating a text block through the text generator for every line of text?
Is NOT recommended to create subtitles in FCP because it will embed them into the video once exported?
My main question is, what is the best way to create subtitles for a feature length film that is edited in Final Cut?
Appreciate any advice as our deadline is coming!
Thanks,
ben
Message was edited by: Cinematographer NW

I just looking for the best option now, before we start the final subtitling, so that we don't shoot ourselves in the foot. < </div>
That would be to create a standardized .smi file that can be read by many different subtitle applications.
Looking for a method that will give us the best options for distributing the film. Not having to re-do the entire output of the film to change languages, re-edit subtitling.< </div>
Umm, how exactly would you release the project in three different languages without creating three different versions? Or at least three different subtitle files?
Would that link I previously posted, or even using DVD SP give the best option, just dropping in a different DVD SP title stream? < </div>
DVD is a terrible way to deliver subtitles, IMO. Just bring one home and watch it. But there's a huge difference between open and closed subs and open and closed captioning, too.
There is no best solution that applies to all distribution media. You must decide on the delivery format and then work backwards.
I offer these as helpful places to visit (there are hundreds more!):
http://www.captionmax.com/faqTechProb.php
http://www.ccaption.com/nccwork.shtml
http://www.robson.org/capfaq/
http://www.channel4.com/corporate/4producers/resources/documents/ForeignLanguage SubtitlingGuidelinesJan06.pdf
bogiesan

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@Studio X:
I have not walked into anybody's office and asked for free advice, I have gone to a place that is specifically allocated as a place to share ideas and knowledge.
Secondly this is not a contractor speaking to an architect, as you put it; a better analogue is an architect asking another architect for advice.
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I am surprised though that you find my outlook curious! In what way?
@Shawn:
Thanks for the links. I appreciate the effort.
@RedTruck:
Thanks mate, but the features we are involved in don't work like that. In terms of the post team, they have a very well rehearsed working relationship. We are not hired to tell them how to do their job; they tell US how they want to work and we design the systems to do it. In this instance they have asked for the system to run FCP which is very unusual, its usually Avid. But they have Oscars and I don't, and its their money, so I'm not going to argue!
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00:00:12:04 , 00:00:14:12 , This is a subtitle...
00:00:16:14 , 00:00:19:08 , ...followed by another subtitle.
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00:00:22:08 , 00:00:26:15 , This is the next subtitle.
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Creating subtitles by the thousands...

I began a documentary series in 2007, and am now in the final phase of production.
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Currently, I'm copying the dialogue text to the clipboard, then using paste, cut, paste, cut and so on...to create subtitle files in Livetype, then placing the files manually within the film segments.
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To see the films as they are, in English and Portuguese, check here...
www.TheHindsightYears.com

My old method of subtitling in FCP involved formatting the script in a Text Editor, then creating a text generator in FCP, then copying & pasting. Here was my workflow:
*Technique 1: Adding Subtitles to Video*
This method is the most basic method. This method will involve Copying text from a document (I prefer using the TextEdit app) and pasting the text into the Text Generator in the Viewer.
a. Once the video is edited to the sequence, set the Video Source Tab to track V2.
b. Open a New Text Generator in the Viewer, and change the Control Tab settings to match the text you want displayed.
c. Open the Subtitle text file and arrange the document window so that it fits next to the viewer.
d. Play the sequence and mark an In Point at the first word spoken, and listen for the keyword listed in the transcript document. Once that word is spoken, mark an Out Point.
e. Select the text from the document and press Command C to copy the text.
f. Select the Viewer, and paste the text in the text area by pressing Command V.
g. Locate the middle of the text and insert a hard return (for double lines).
h. Press F10 to Overwrite Edit the Text Generator to the sequence. (By setting the Source Tab properly, this will keep the text on the track above the video.)
i. Repeat this process for the rest of the dialogue.

Fastest way to create subtitles

Hi! What is the fastest way to create subtitles. I have a short film with one hundred subtitles. I have a text list with time codes, can I use that somehow? Or do I have to enter every subtile separately? And what are the basic settings?

A possibility seems to be using Quicktime Pro to add your text to a Quicktime movie. The Apple instructions are in Text Track Tutorial. I never used it in real life,... but I tested it in the past and it seemed to be doing what I expected: to layout text over an existing movie at preassigned timecodes...
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Piero

Using Speech Analysis to create subtitles

Does anyone know if its possible to take the results of a Speech Analysis transcription in Premiere Pro and export it as a Subtitle file to be used in Encore?
Mainly, I'm thinking of two possible uses for the Speech Analysis function, that I can use in our workflow.
1) Creating subtitles with the click of a button. We have a script for our video, which is narration only - with the help of a reference script, Speech Analysis reproduces the script nearly 100%, and now has timing associated with each word. Is there any way to take this timing and turn it into something that is useful for subtitle purposes?
2) Creating a transcription for clients. If we had an interview, and - without a script - did a Speech Analysis, [which I imagine would have varying amounts of success, but may be good enough] - how can we export that analysis, with some timing for reference, for the client to use.

Hi,
I'm not sure if this thread is really about the accuracy of the speech-to-text process, but because Frank_xrx asked, I thought I might give my own answer. I've been working with this workflow for the last four weeks now, and have finally decided that it is not possible to do serious work with the tools as they are at the moment.
All the comments from Adobe about the quality of the voice-recording affecting the accuracy of the text analysis are true, but, as others have noted, when your sound-track has spontaneous speech you cannot always separate one voice from the background, nor have recording-studio quality all the time. In such cases the text that is produced will simply not be accurate enough to use, whether you have attached an accurate script or not. Also, this speech analysis process does not like long pauses between speakers (e.g. if you have any action in your video, this will really mess up the timing of text that is produced).
However, above and beyond all this, the main flaw in the whole process, from my point of view, is that even with a word-perfect script typed into Story, attached to video clips in On Location, and then "speech-analyzed" in Premiere... if the resulting text has omissions or mistakes, there is almost nothing you can do to edit them. OK, I know there is an editing facility but it is a sham. If you add missing words into the text, then these words appear in the text, but they never get a time stamp, so they never appear in the exported xml-file, and they can never be used to "go to" a particular point in the video. If, like me, you want to find out where and how many times certain words are used in your video, then none of these newly added words will be found! Also, if you look closely, you'll find that you cannot add anything before the first word of the analyzed text that is produced in Premiere, nor can you add anything after the last word of that text. It is just not possible (right click on the first and last words to see the greyed out items). I've had several instances where the first speaker in a scene is completely missed out of the analyzed text, and also, in my experience, the analysis process always (i.e. always) misses off the last word in each scene, regardless of sound-track quality or the attachment of a full script. When these things happen this is a major problem for me. For me, the feature of searching for and playing back individual words or phrases in a video was the main attraction of the Production Premium Suite; this was why I bought it. I'm trying to produce spoken and visual "concordances", as a step up from the text-only versions now available (sorry if that's a bit esoteric).
I know that a lot of editing can be done to the analyzed text if you use After Effects. And this is great if you want to show subtitles. But anything you add, or change in AE is still beyond the reach of the xml files exported by Premiere or Encore, so, again, no changes you make in AE will be searchable (or findable) in the final video. There is another route to producing a text-searchable video, which involves putting physical cue points into the video whilst in AE, and then writing a Flash program to use those cue points, instead of using the xml-file data. I haven't tried that yet, as I kept on hoping that the (frequently) advertised speech-to-text workflow would actually work. But after four, increasingly frustrating weeks I've given up on it, simply because I can't get even a small proof-of-concept project to work exactly as advertised. Starting a serious project, with the current tools, would be unwise.
I realize that there must be work-arounds for some of the problems, but at the price of this suite (even more expensive for those of us who don't live in the US), I feel that things should work as advertised. This is not Version 1.0 from a start up company.
So, I hope this wasn't too verbose. I have specific requirements of the speech-to-text workflow which I've tried to explain above. If your requirements are not the same, then maybe you can get away with the work-arounds.. and... this thread was originally about subtitles, and there is some hope for those, using AE. I thought I'd still write this, though, as I need a bit of an outlet for all these weeks of frustration :o)

Creating Subtitles for Feature Film Documentary

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