CSS Positioning or DW Problem?

I am having difficulty with CSS positioning after spending several hours reading and trial and error.  I am beginning to think that Dreamweaver is broken, and thoughts of reloading are crossing my mind.
My desire is to have a background image "beneath" my page wrap div, essentially acting as a border surrounding it.  I have assigned the position to this image "background" as relative, and therefore assigned the positioning of my page wrap div as absolute.  The page wrap has been given a background color, and a line of text to enable me to "see" where I am in securing the proper placement. I would think that the background color of the page wrap div would "show" but it is not. (?)
I have positioned my palette, as we will call it, with margins, while attempting to place my page wrap using top, right, bottom and left through the CSS dialog box.  Regardless of values used, the div remains in the bottom left hand corner of the browser window and refuses to budge.
#palette {
    background: url(images/pallete.png) no-repeat;
    width: 1200px;
    height: 1400px;
    margin: 100px auto;
    position: relative;
#page wrap {
    position: absolute;
    background: #C06;
    height: 1100px;
    width: 960px;
    top: 100px;
    right: -120px;
It has gotten so that any changes I make to the CSS at this stage will not even trigger a Refresh of the CSS styles panel?  What gives?
Thanks.

I've never used "Live Code" before, and was able to place #page more to my liking, but it is a ballpark position so to speak, I can only approximate it's center within #palette.  I begin to think I have success, until I go to browser view, where #page position seems to shift.
You are trying to use HTML like a word processor and that's the absolute (no pun intended) wrong approach!
An absolutely positioned element's location is calculated from the location of its nearest positioned ANCESTOR.  An "ancestor" is a containing element, not an adjacent element (which would be a 'sibling').  Thus, if you want your absolutely positioned element to key off of the location of a relatively positioned element, it must be a child (or descendent) of that relatively positioned element.  In other words, to make #page work relative to #palette, it must be inside #palette.
If there are alternatives to securing positioning other than my current method, I would be interested to learn about it.  I am not aware of the drawbacks mentioned with employing this type of positioning, could you provide some detail please?
There is an excellent alternative without using positioning at all - it's called 'best practice'!   The disadvantages of using absolute positioning for everything are:
1.  Because absolutely positioned elements are removed from the flow of code on the page, they are immune to shifts in other non-positioned page elements due to browser viewport size changes, or text display size changes.
2.  Since #1 is the case, and since text display size changes may cause the height of the container to change, if that container is absolutely positioned, its contained text may overlap other content on the screen.  The more absolutely positioned text containers there are the worse this effect becomes, quickly producing an unusable, overlapping mess.
3.  Absolutely positioned elements are located on the screen without regard for where the elements appear in the code, and as a result, it's quite possible to have two bits of text that only make semantic sense when taken as a unit separated by quite a bit of code, perhaps even other text bits.  Thus, pages built with absolutely positioned text containers are usually not semantically sensible, meaning that they would not fare well when run through a screen assistive device.
4.  Considering all of these things, pages that contain both centering elements and positioned elements frequently go wandering as viewport widths are changed.
The upshot is that the method most likely to be chosen by an inexperienced user because of its apparent simplicity is also the absolute worst possible approach to building the page.
Oh, by the way, the values for positioning below were obtained through "dragging" div=page into position.  I would rather not use Live Code, but plug in concrete values in the future.
The word processing approach in action!  The only way to achieve plugging in concrete values is to have a layout already planned on paper before you start.
Say more about how you want your page to look (I'm not sure what you mean exactly about centering #page "above" #palette, but if you mean "before" then consider this -
<style type="text/css">
h1, h2, h3, h4, h5, h6, p, address, blockquote, ul, ol, li {
    margin: 0px;
    padding: 0px;
html {
    background: #3E4A9C url(images/Untitled-2.png) repeat;
body {
    font: 1em Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif;
    color: #000;
    width:1200px;
    margin:0 auto;
#palette {
    background: url(images/map.png) no-repeat;
    margin: 100px auto;
#page {
    width: 960px;
    margin:0 auto;
    background-color: #03C;
</style>
</head>
<body>
<div  id="page">This is my page </div><!--End of page-->
  <div id="palette"></div><!--End of palette-->
</body>
(note that I have removed all positioning, as well as all heights - it's generall a bad idea to declare explicit heights on elements that contain text, again due to potential overflow problems)

Similar Messages

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    > However, the next box 'jumps' down to the next line,
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    Murray --- ICQ 71997575
    Adobe Community Expert
    (If you *MUST* email me, don't LAUGH when you do so!)
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    ==================
    "socks_" <[email protected]> wrote in
    message
    news:[email protected]...
    >I am learning the rudiments of CSS positioning - I have
    gone through the
    >good
    > Macromedia docs and even bought a book which is useful
    (HTML Utopia). I am
    > now
    > applying some concepts to my first site.
    >
    > Oh how I thought I knew how to apply theory.
    >
    > The sily thing is I am stuck on a very basic stage. And
    I just cant figure
    > out
    > the solution. This is my problem.
    >
    > I want to centre my site on the page so I created a
    #wrapper <div> which
    > works
    > fine
    >
    > Then, I wanted to position two <div> 'boxes', each
    containing a logo
    > within
    > this wrapper, next to each other, left to right, with a
    small margin
    > imbetween
    > them.
    >
    > The first box on the left aligns fine, relatively
    positioned to the
    > wrapper.
    > Great.
    >
    > However, the next box 'jumps' down to the next line,
    even though there is
    > space within the wrapper element for it. I assumed as
    <div> tag elements
    > 'flow'
    > after each other, it would continue right. But no, it
    flows onto the next
    > line,
    > a bit like this
    >
    > image 1
    > image 2
    >
    > I was after
    >
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    >
    > What am I doing wrong. Im sure Im missing the obvious.
    Should I be
    > floating at
    > this stage?
    >
    > Forgive me - Im grasping the concepts here
    >
    > Heres the code:
    >
    > CSS
    > #master_wrapper {
    > width: 760px;
    > margin-top: 0px;
    > margin-bottom: 0px;
    > margin-right: auto;
    > margin-left: auto;
    > position: relative;
    > }
    >
    > #logo_box {
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    > height: 120px;
    > position: relative;
    > }
    >
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    > width: 580px;
    > height: 120px;
    > margin-top: 0;
    > margin-left: 25px;
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    >
    >
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    >
    > <div id="logo_box"><img
    src="website_graphics/index_page/logo.jpg"
    > alt="Logo"
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    > src="website_graphics/index_page/banner_cityscape.jpg"
    alt="Banner"
    > width="580"
    > height="120"/>
    > </div>
    > </body>
    >
    > If you are feeling especially kind, could you let me
    know the correct code
    > to
    > position a further 2 boxes which sit under the logo and
    the banner
    > respectively
    >
    > Yours, cap in hand
    >
    > Chris
    >

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  • Css position:fixed works on mozilla 21/IE10 but not in chrome ?

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  • CSS positioning learning - I must be missing the point?!

    CSS positioning learning - I must be missing the point?!
    Okay I would like to know the benefit of using CSS
    positioning with DIVs when you have templates that helps your pages
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    how you make a site look consistent doing it the other route.
    I have been reading through a CSS positioning tutorial at
    http://www.adobe.com/devnet/dreamweaver/articles/css_concepts.html
    and it is indeed somewhat complicated ESPECIALLY when you
    have to compensate for Internet explorer quirks.
    So again... someone please tell me what the benefit would be
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    out. And have liked templates since you can apply them to many
    pages quickly. Is CSS positioning really the future way to go?
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    Templates have nothing to do with layout. They are only able
    to control
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    dependent not on the
    region but on the HTML structure of your page.
    The real advantage of using a CSS layout is that a) the pages
    are somewhat
    to considerably lighter in weight, and b) the externally
    linked CSS file is
    cached so that you don't have to continually load the same
    structural markup
    every time, and c) once you understand how to use the CSS,
    you have so much
    more control over the placement of things on the page....
    Murray --- ICQ 71997575
    Adobe Community Expert
    (If you *MUST* email me, don't LAUGH when you do so!)
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    "computerkitten" <[email protected]> wrote
    in message
    news:[email protected]...
    > CSS positioning learning - I must be missing the point?!
    >
    > Okay I would like to know the benefit of using CSS
    positioning with DIVs
    > when
    > you have templates that helps your pages look all
    consistent with the same
    > navigation or header? I don't see how you make a site
    look consistent
    > doing it
    > the other route.
    >
    > I have been reading through a CSS positioning tutorial
    at <a target=_blank
    > class=ftalternatingbarlinklarge
    > href="
    http://www.adobe.com/devnet/dreamweaver/articles/css_concepts.html
    > and">
    http://www.adobe.com/devnet/dreamweaver/articles/css_concepts.html
    > and</a> it is indeed somewhat complicated
    ESPECIALLY when you have to
    > compensate for Internet explorer quirks.
    >
    > So again... someone please tell me what the benefit
    would be to learn CSS
    > positioning....because I haven't for sure figured it
    out. And have liked
    > templates since you can apply them to many pages
    quickly. Is CSS
    > positioning
    > really the future way to go?
    >
    > Thanks,
    > Angie
    >

  • CSS positioning for complext layout

    I've been creating web page layouts with tables for many
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    instead. Having gone through various tutorials, I've mastered the
    art of creating a 3-column layout, however the design I'm working
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    http://www.sweatshop.co.uk/dev/pagelayout.htm
    Is this too complex for CSS positioning? Would I be better
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    detailed tutorials that might help me achieve this using CSS?
    Thanks in advance.
    Claire

    > Is this too complex for CSS positioning? Would I be
    better off using tables?
    > Or can anyone point me in the direction of more detailed
    tutorials that might
    > help me achieve this using CSS?
    >
    > Thanks in advance.
    >
    > Claire
    >
    Heres the html code and css:
    <!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.01
    Transitional//EN"
    http://www.w3.org/TR/html4/loose.dtd">
    <html>
    <head>
    <meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html;
    charset=iso-8859-1">
    <title>Untitled Document</title>
    <style type="text/css">
    body {
    font-family: verdana, helvetia, ariel, sans-serif;
    font-size: 11px;
    background-color: #fff;
    color: #fff;
    #pageWrapper {
    width: 750px;
    margin: 0 auto;
    #header {
    background-color: #999;
    margin-bottom: 8px;
    #navigation {
    background-color: #999;
    margin-bottom: 8px;
    #leftSide {
    float: left;
    width: 480px;
    #basket {
    width: 170px;
    float: left;
    background-color: #999;
    #productDesc {
    width: 302px;
    float: left;
    margin: 0 0 8px 8px;
    display: inline;
    background-color: #999;
    #productImage {
    background-color: #999;
    clear: both;
    height: 200px;
    margin-bottom: 8px;
    #pollProductoptionWrap {
    width: 480px;
    #poll {
    width: 170px;
    float: left;
    background-color: #999;
    #productOptionUpsellProdsWrap {
    width: 302px;
    float: left;
    margin-left: 8px;
    display: inline;
    #productOptions {
    background-color: #999;
    margin-bottom: 8px;
    #upsellProducts {
    background-color: #999;
    margin-bottom: 8px;
    #results {
    width: 262px;
    float: left;
    margin-left: 8px;
    display: inline;
    background-color: #999;
    #footer {
    background-color: #999;
    clear: both;
    </style>
    </head>
    <body>
    <div id="pageWrapper">
    <div id="header">Header</div>
    <div id="navigation">Navigation</div>
    <div id="leftSide">
    <div id="basket">Basket</div><!-- end Basket
    -->
    <div id="productDesc">ProductDesc</div><!--
    end ProductDesc -->
    <div id="productImage">Product Image</div><!--
    end ProductImage -->
    <div id="pollProductoptionWrap">
    <div id="poll">Poll</div><!-- end poll -->
    <div id="productOptionUpsellProdsWrap">
    <div id="productOptions">Product
    Options</div><!-- end productOptions -->
    <div id="upsellProducts">Upsell
    Products</div><!-- end productOptions -->
    </div><!-- end productOptionUpsellProdsWrap -->
    </div><!-- end pollProductoptionWrap -->
    </div><!-- end leftSide -->
    <div id="results">Results</div>
    <div id="footer">Footer</div>
    </div><!-- end pageWrapper -->
    </body>
    </html>

  • CSS positioning question

    Am just trying to nail this CSS positioning thing once and
    for all, with a simple enough two column layout.
    I've posted a link below which is pretty much there - but
    there is an unintended gap between the banner image, and the navbar
    link with
    unwanted gap
    It should look like this :
    link without
    unwanted gap
    Cheers,
    Iain

    Al Sparber- PVII wrote:
    > "Thierry | www.TJKDesign.com"
    <[email protected]> wrote in
    > message news:ei5iju$od4$[email protected]..
    >> Iain71 wrote:
    >>> Am just trying to nail this CSS positioning
    thing once and for all,
    >>> with a simple enough two column layout.
    >>>
    >>> I've posted a link below which is pretty much
    there - but there is
    >>> an
    >>> unintended gap between the banner image, and the
    navbar :
    >>>
    >>>
    http://www.oriental-chamber.co.uk/homepage5.htm
    >>>
    >>> It should look like this :
    >>>
    >>>
    http://www.oriental-chamber.co.uk/homepage2.htm
    >>
    >> Try this:
    >> #header img {vertical-align:bottom}
    > Float left should work too. I believe this is a function
    of using a
    > strict DOCTYPE.
    >
    http://www.projectseven.com/csslab/images/baseline/
    As well as "display:block".
    I just didn't want to plug a URL:
    http://www.tjkdesign.com/articles/imageanddoctypes.htm
    Thierry
    Articles and Tutorials:
    http://www.TJKDesign.com/go/?0
    The perfect FAQ page:
    http://www.TJKDesign.com/go/?9
    CSS-P Templates:
    http://www.TJKDesign.com/go/?1
    CSS Tab Menu:
    http://www.TJKDesign.com/go/?3

  • CSS Positioning - Help!

    I am new to Dreamweaver and web design, and I must be missing
    something on how CSS positioning works.
    I am using DW8 and in design view the text is positioned at L
    200px, T 200px, but when I preview in browser for IE 6.0, it is
    positioned at L 0px, T 0px.
    The code is below.
    I gave this as a basic example of what is happening to me,
    but every time I position layers and preview them in the browser,
    they are showing up all over the place.
    - Doug

    #Layer1 {
    position:absolute;
    left:200px;
    top:200px;
    Non-zero values always need units.
    Murray --- ICQ 71997575
    Adobe Community Expert
    (If you *MUST* email me, don't LAUGH when you do so!)
    ==================
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    ==================
    "dugmug" <[email protected]> wrote in
    message
    news:e2b5u7$9nr$[email protected]..
    >I am new to Dreamweaver and web design, and I must be
    missing something on
    >how
    > CSS positioning works.
    >
    > I am using DW8 and in design view the text is positioned
    at L 200px, T
    > 200px,
    > but when I preview in browser for IE 6.0, it is
    positioned at L 0px, T
    > 0px.
    >
    > The code is below.
    >
    > I gave this as a basic example of what is happening to
    me, but every time
    > I
    > position layers and preview them in the browser, they
    are showing up all
    > over
    > the place.
    >
    > - Doug
    >
    >
    >
    > body {
    > margin-left: 0px;
    > margin-top: 0px;
    > }
    > #Layer1 {
    > position:absolute;
    > left:200;
    > top:200;
    > width:185px;
    > height:68px;
    > z-index:1;
    > }
    >
    > -->
    > </style>
    > </head>
    >
    > <body>
    >
    > <div id="Layer1">This is a test! </div>
    > </body>
    > </html>
    >

  • CSS positioning problem in IE 6 and earlier only

    Hello Forum Amigos,
    This page has a problem in IE 6 which I cannot figure out.
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    much appreciated!
    http://fuentek.com/sites/GRC/index.html
    If you look at the page with any newer browser, the section
    with the heading
    "What We Offer" - a <div> with the ID "mainContent" -
    displays at the top of
    the middle column, where it belongs.
    In IE 6, it displays far down on the page, still in the
    middle column, but
    vertically just after the end of the content in the right
    column.
    Here's a screenshot of it in IE 6:
    http://ayersvirtual.com/Screenshot_GRC_IE6.gif
    Thanks very much in advance for any help,
    Patty Ayers | www.WebDevBiz.com
    Free Articles on the Business of Web Development
    Web Design Contract, Estimate Request Form, Estimate
    Worksheet

    I didn't think I could say that it wasn't my site any more
    times than I
    already had! :-)
    Patty Ayers | www.WebDevBiz.com
    Free Articles on the Business of Web Development
    Web Design Contract, Estimate Request Form, Estimate
    Worksheet
    "Murray *ACE*" <[email protected]> wrote
    in message
    news:[email protected]...
    > I'm relieved!
    >
    > --
    > Murray --- ICQ 71997575
    > Adobe Community Expert
    > (If you *MUST* email me, don't LAUGH when you do so!)
    > ==================
    >
    http://www.projectseven.com/go
    - DW FAQs, Tutorials & Resources
    >
    http://www.dwfaq.com - DW FAQs,
    Tutorials & Resources
    > ==================
    >
    >
    > "P@tty Ayers ~ACE"
    <[email protected]> wrote in message
    > news:[email protected]...
    >> Yes, and if it were my site, it would be a lot
    different. :-)
    >>
    >> I really appreciate your help.
    >>
    >> --
    >> Patty Ayers | www.WebDevBiz.com
    >> Free Articles on the Business of Web Development
    >> Web Design Contract, Estimate Request Form, Estimate
    Worksheet
    >> --
    >>
    >> "Murray *ACE*"
    <[email protected]> wrote in message
    >> news:[email protected]...
    >>> It's minorish... (and amateurish, too!) 8)
    >>>
    >>> --
    >>> Murray --- ICQ 71997575
    >>> Adobe Community Expert
    >>> (If you *MUST* email me, don't LAUGH when you do
    so!)
    >>> ==================
    >>>
    http://www.projectseven.com/go
    - DW FAQs, Tutorials & Resources
    >>>
    http://www.dwfaq.com - DW FAQs,
    Tutorials & Resources
    >>> ==================
    >>>
    >>>
    >>> "P@tty Ayers ~ACE"
    <[email protected]> wrote in
    >>> message
    news:[email protected]...
    >>>> Ok, I can't see that in my screenshot so
    don't know how bad it looks.
    >>>> If it's minorish, it may be acceptable for
    IE6. Unless you're
    >>>> suggesting a fix..?
    >>>>
    >>>> --
    >>>> Patty Ayers | www.WebDevBiz.com
    >>>> Free Articles on the Business of Web
    Development
    >>>> Web Design Contract, Estimate Request Form,
    Estimate Worksheet
    >>>> --
    >>>>
    >>>>
    >>>> "Murray *ACE*"
    <[email protected]> wrote in message
    >>>> news:[email protected]...
    >>>>> Looks better to me in IE6 now. I note
    that the content container is
    >>>>> still just a few px wider than the top
    background image - I can see
    >>>>> the background color peeking out past
    the right edge of the rounded
    >>>>> corner image....
    >>>>>
    >>>>> --
    >>>>> Murray --- ICQ 71997575
    >>>>> Adobe Community Expert
    >>>>> (If you *MUST* email me, don't LAUGH
    when you do so!)
    >>>>> ==================
    >>>>>
    http://www.projectseven.com/go
    - DW FAQs, Tutorials & Resources
    >>>>>
    http://www.dwfaq.com - DW FAQs,
    Tutorials & Resources
    >>>>> ==================
    >>>>>
    >>>>>
    >>>>> "P@tty Ayers ~ACE"
    <[email protected]> wrote in
    >>>>> message
    news:[email protected]...
    >>>>>> I've done what you suggested and
    uploaded it, Murray - do you have IE
    >>>>>> 6 to check it, by any chance?
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>> --
    >>>>>> Patty Ayers | www.WebDevBiz.com
    >>>>>> Free Articles on the Business of Web
    Development
    >>>>>> Web Design Contract, Estimate
    Request Form, Estimate Worksheet
    >>>>>> --
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>> "P@tty Ayers ~ACE"
    <[email protected]> wrote in
    >>>>>> message
    news:[email protected]...
    >>>>>>> Hi Murray - I wouldn't have
    built the page this way either. I'll fix
    >>>>>>> the Library item muy pronto.
    >>>>>>>
    >>>>>>> And I'm about to try your
    suggestion. Thank you, I really appreciate
    >>>>>>> it.
    >>>>>>>
    >>>>>>> --
    >>>>>>> Patty Ayers | www.WebDevBiz.com
    >>>>>>> Free Articles on the Business of
    Web Development
    >>>>>>> Web Design Contract, Estimate
    Request Form, Estimate Worksheet
    >>>>>>> --
    >>>>>>>
    >>>>>>> "Murray *ACE*"
    <[email protected]> wrote in message
    >>>>>>>
    news:[email protected]...
    >>>>>>>> You have a link to a
    stylesheet in your Library item, you know?
    >>>>>>>>
    >>>>>>>> I wouldn't have built the
    page that way.
    >>>>>>>>
    >>>>>>>> I would have made
    div#mainContent be the full width (no margin),
    >>>>>>>> and have it contain both the
    content and the sidebar, with each of
    >>>>>>>> them floated left. I just
    think it's easier to control things that
    >>>>>>>> way. But nevermind...
    >>>>>>>>
    >>>>>>>> What happens if you reduce
    the right margin on the div#mainContent
    >>>>>>>> by 5px (and remove the
    z-index which is unsuitable here)?
    >>>>>>>>
    >>>>>>>> --
    >>>>>>>> Murray --- ICQ 71997575
    >>>>>>>> Adobe Community Expert
    >>>>>>>> (If you *MUST* email me,
    don't LAUGH when you do so!)
    >>>>>>>> ==================
    >>>>>>>>
    http://www.projectseven.com/go
    - DW FAQs, Tutorials & Resources
    >>>>>>>>
    http://www.dwfaq.com - DW FAQs,
    Tutorials & Resources
    >>>>>>>> ==================
    >>>>>>>>
    >>>>>>>>
    >>>>>>>> "P@tty Ayers ~ACE"
    <[email protected]> wrote in
    >>>>>>>> message
    news:[email protected]...
    >>>>>>>>> Hello Forum Amigos,
    >>>>>>>>>
    >>>>>>>>> This page has a problem
    in IE 6 which I cannot figure out. Any
    >>>>>>>>> help would be much
    appreciated!
    >>>>>>>>>
    >>>>>>>>>
    http://fuentek.com/sites/GRC/index.html
    >>>>>>>>>
    >>>>>>>>> If you look at the page
    with any newer browser, the section with
    >>>>>>>>> the heading "What We
    Offer" - a <div> with the ID "mainContent" -
    >>>>>>>>> displays at the top of
    the middle column, where it belongs.
    >>>>>>>>>
    >>>>>>>>> In IE 6, it displays far
    down on the page, still in the middle
    >>>>>>>>> column, but vertically
    just after the end of the content in the
    >>>>>>>>> right column.
    >>>>>>>>>
    >>>>>>>>> Here's a screenshot of
    it in IE 6:
    >>>>>>>>>
    http://ayersvirtual.com/Screenshot_GRC_IE6.gif
    >>>>>>>>>
    >>>>>>>>> Thanks very much in
    advance for any help,
    >>>>>>>>>
    >>>>>>>>> --
    >>>>>>>>> Patty Ayers |
    www.WebDevBiz.com
    >>>>>>>>> Free Articles on the
    Business of Web Development
    >>>>>>>>> Web Design Contract,
    Estimate Request Form, Estimate Worksheet
    >>>>>>>>> --
    >>>>>>>>>
    >>>>>>>>>
    >>>>>>>>>
    >>>>>>>>>
    >>>>>>>>>
    >>>>>>>>>
    >>>>>>>>>
    >>>>>>>>
    >>>>>>>
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>
    >>>>
    >>>
    >>
    >

  • Spry Menu Bar 2.0 (1.0) - Handling of widget generated CSS, placement and rendering problems in CSS

    Hello:
    I wanted to repost my question to re-frame the issue based on what I have learned thus far.
    I am working on a website that has been developed using the Spry Menu Bar Framework UI (2.0) I.0, that has some peculiar rendering problems that affect IE 6 in particular.  The CSS is reprinted below.
    In particular, when I post the widget generated CSS in the head as it is orginally situated by the framework, the menu bar works fine.  However, it seemed to me that I should be able to reduce page weight (an important consideration considering my target population) by placing it in the general style sheet governing the entire site.
    When I place the styles at the beginning of the style sheet the menu doesn't render at all in any of the browsers (IE 6+, Firefox, Opera, Safari, Netscape, etc.) as it conflicts with the general rules governing links that appear later in the style sheet.  When I place the styles specific to the Menu bar at the end of the style sheet, then the menu bar renders properly in all browsers except IE 6.
    The odd thing is that the only way to ensure that the menu bar works in IE 6 is to keep the menu related styles in the head of each page.  This raises problems related to page weight (not an insurmountable consideration if no other solution can be found) but still an issue.  Likewise I need to support IE 6, again given the target audience/population.  The issue obviously has something to do with specificity, but I am not certain that is the only consideration at work here.  I have not tried the !important selector in regard to the menu, as IE 6 seems to only partially support this.
    Thanks in advance for any advice or insight that can be provided.  Thanks in particular to Martin for his contributions to my earlier question related to this issue.
    Steve Webster.
    The CSS governing the horizontal menu bar is as follows:  (currently the following CSS is embedded in the head of the web page)
    <style type="text/css">
    /*  -- Begins Spry Menu Widget 2.0 (1.0) Horizontal menu bar Custom styles --  */
    /* BeginOAWidget_Instance_2141544: #MenuBar */
    /* Settable values for skinning a Basic menu via presets. If presets are not sufficient, most skinning should be done in
       these rules, with the exception of the images used for down or rightpointing arrows, which are in the file SpryMenuBasic.css
         These assume the following widget classes for menu layout (set in a preset)
       .MenuBar - Applies to all menubars - default is horizontal bar, allsubmenus are vertical - 2nd level subs and beyond are pull-right.
        .MenuBarVertical - vertical main bar; all submenus are pull-right.
       You can also pass in extra classnames to set your desired top levelmenu bar layout. Normally, these are set by using a preset.
        They only apply to horizontal menu bars:
            MenuBarLeftShrink - The menu bar will be horizontally 'shrinkwrapped' to be just large enough to hold its items, and left aligned
            MenuBarRightShrink - Just like MenuBarLeftShrink, but right aligned
            MenuBarFixedLeft - Fixed at a specified width set in the rule '.MenuBarFixedLeft', and left aligned. 
            MenuBarFixedCentered -  - Fixed at a specified width set in the rule '.MenuBarFixedCentered',
                            and centered in its parent container.
            MenuBarFullwidth - Grows to fill its parent container width.
        In general, all rules specified in this file are prefixed by #MenuBar so they only apply to instances of the widget inserted along
       with the rules. This permits use of multiple MenuBarBasic widgets onthe same page with different layouts. Because of IE6 limitations,
        there are a few rules where this was not possible. Those rules are so noted in comments.
    #MenuBar  {
        background-color:transparent;
       font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif; /* Specify fonts on onMenuBar and subMenu MenuItemContainer, so MenuItemContainer,
                                                    MenuItem, and MenuItemLabel
                                                    at a given level all use same definition for ems.
                                                    Note that this means the size is also inherited to child submenus,
                                                    so use caution in using relative sizes other than
                                                    100% on submenu fonts. */
        font-weight: normal;
        font-size: 17px;
        font-style: normal;
        padding:0;
    /* Caution: because ID+class selectors do not work properly in IE6, but we want to restrict these rules to just this
    widget instance, we have used string-concatenated classnames for our selectors for the layout type of the menubar
    in this section. These have very low specificity, so be careful not to accidentally override them. */
    .MenuBar br { /* using just a class so it has same specificity as the ".MenuBarFixedCentered br" rule bleow */
        display:none;
    .MenuBarLeftShrink {
        float: left; /* shrink to content, as well as float the MenuBar */
        width: auto;
    .MenuBarRightShrink {
        float: right; /* shrink to content, as well as float the MenuBar */
        width: auto;
    .MenuBarFixedLeft {
        float: left;
        width: 80em;
    .MenuBarFixedCentered {
        float: none;
        width: 80em;
        margin-left:auto;
        margin-right:auto;
    .MenuBarFixedCentered br {
        clear:both;
        display:block;
    .MenuBarFixedCentered .SubMenu br {
        display:none;
    .MenuBarFullwidth {
        float: left;
        width: 100%;
    /* Top level menubar items - these actually apply to all items, and get overridden for 1st or successive level submenus */
    #MenuBar  .MenuItemContainer {
        padding: 0px 0px 0px 0px;
        margin: 0;     /* Zero out margin  on the item containers. The MenuItem is the active hover area.
                    For most items, we have to do top or bottom padding or borders only on the MenuItem
                    or a child so we keep the entire submenu tiled with items.
                    Setting this to 0 avoids "dead spots" for hovering. */
    #MenuBar  .MenuItem {
        padding: 10px 10px 10px 4px;
        background-color:#000088;
        background-image:url(../ACLCO%20Graphics%20-%20Web%20site%20Parts/Nav igation%20Bar%20Segment-Dark.png);
        background-repeat:repeat-x;       
    #MenuBar  .MenuItemFirst {
        border-style: none none none none;
    #MenuBar .MenuItemLast {
        border-style: none none none none;
    #MenuBar  .MenuItem  .MenuItemLabel{
        text-align:center;
        line-height:1.4em;
        color:#ffffff;
        background-color:transparent;
        padding: 0px 18px 0px 5px;
        width: 10em;
        width:auto;
    .SpryIsIE6 #MenuBar  .MenuItem  .MenuItemLabel{
        width:1em; /* Equivalent to min-width in modern browsers */
    /* First level submenu items */
    #MenuBar .SubMenu  .MenuItem {
        font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;
        font-weight: bold;
        font-size: 15px;
        font-style: normal;
        background-color:#000088;
        padding:0px 2px 0px 0px;
        border-width:0px;
        border-color: #cccccc #cccccc #cccccc #cccccc;
        /* Border styles are overriden by first and last items */
        border-style: solid solid none solid;
    #MenuBar  .SubMenu .MenuItemFirst {
        border-style: none;
        padding: 0px;
    #MenuBar  .SubMenu .MenuItemFirst .MenuItemLabel{
        padding-top: 0px;
    #MenuBar .SubMenu .MenuItemLast {
        border-style: none none none none;
    #MenuBar .SubMenu .MenuItemLast .MenuItemLabel{
        padding-bottom: 10px;
    #MenuBar .SubMenu .MenuItem .MenuItemLabel{
        text-align:left;
        line-height:1em;   
        background-color:transparent;
        color:#ffffff;
        padding: 10px 10px 10px 10px;
        width: 240px;
    /* Hover states for containers, items and labels */
    #MenuBar .MenuItemHover {
        background-color: #2E35A3;
        background-image:url(../ACLCO%20Graphics%20-%20Web%20site%20Parts/Nav igation%20Bar%20Segment%20Light2.png);
        background-repeat:repeat-x;
    #MenuBar .MenuItemWithSubMenu.MenuItemHover .MenuItemLabel{
        background-color: transparent; /* consider exposing this prop separately*/
        color: #ffffff;
    #MenuBar .MenuItemHover .MenuItemLabel{
        background-color: transparent;
        color: #ffffff;
    #MenuBar .SubMenu .MenuItemHover {
        background-color:#2E35A3;
    #MenuBar .SubMenu .MenuItemHover .MenuItemLabel{
        background-color: transparent;
        color: #ffffff;
    /* Submenu properties -- First level of submenus */
    #MenuBar .SubMenuVisible {
        background-color: transparent;
       min-width:0%;  /* This keeps the menu from being skinnier than theparent MenuItemContainer - nice to have but not available on ie6 */
        border-style: none none none none;
    #MenuBar.MenuBar .SubMenuVisible {/* For Horizontal menubar only */
        top: 100%;    /* 100% is at the bottom of parent menuItemContainer */
        left:0px; /* 'left' may need tuning depending upon borders or padding applied to menubar MenuItemContainer or MenuItem,
                        and your personal taste.
                       0px will left align the dropdown with the content area of theMenuItemContainer. Assuming you keep the margins 0
                        on MenuItemContainer and MenuItem on the parent
                        menubar, making this equal the sum of the MenuItemContainer & MenuItem padding-left will align
                        the dropdown with the left of the menu item label.*/
        z-index:10;
    #MenuBar.MenuBarVertical .SubMenuVisible {
        top: 0px;   
        left:100%;
        min-width:0px; /* Do not neeed to match width to parent MenuItemContainer - items will prevent total collapse */
    /* Submenu properties -- Second level submenu and beyond - these are visible descendents of .MenuLevel1 */
    #MenuBar .MenuLevel1 .SubMenuVisible {
        background-color: transparent;
        min-width:0px; /* Do not neeed to match width to parent MenuItemContainer - items will prevent total collapse*/
        top: 0px;    /* If desired, you can move this down a smidge to separate top item''s submenu from menubar -
                    that is really only needed for submenu on first item of MenuLevel1, or you can make it negative to make submenu more
                    vertically 'centered' on its invoking item */
        left:100%; /* If you want to shift the submenu left to partially cover its invoking item, you can add a margin-left with a
                    negative value to this rule. Alternatively, if you use fixed-width items, you can change this left value
                    to use px or ems to get the offset you want. */
    /* IE6 rules - you can delete these if you do not want to support IE6 */
    /* A note about multiple classes in IE6.
    * Some of the rules above use multiple class names on an element forselection, such as "hover" (MenuItemHover) and "has a subMenu"(MenuItemWithSubMenu),
    * giving the selector '.MenuItemWithSubMenu.MenuItemHover'.
    * Unfortunately IE6 does not support using mutiple classnames in aselector for an element. For a selector such as '.foo.bar.baz', IE6ignores
    * all but the final classname (here, '.baz'), and sets thespecificity accordingly, counting just one of those classs assignificant. To get around this
    * problem, we use the plugin in SpryMenuBarIEWorkaroundsPlugin.js to generate compound classnames for IE6, such as 'MenuItemWithSubMenuHover'.
    * Since there are a lotof these needed, the plugin does not generate the extra classes formodern browsers, and we use the CSS2 style mutltiple class
    * syntax for that. Since IE6 both applies rules where
    * it should not, and gets the specificity wrong too, we have to order rules carefully, so the rule misapplied in IE6 can be overridden.
    * So, we put the multiple class rule first. IE6 will mistakenly apply this rule.  We follow this with the single-class rule that it would
    * mistakenly override, making sure the  misinterpreted IE6 specificity is the same as the single-class selector, so the latter wins.
    * We then create a copy of the multiple class rule, adding a '.SpryIsIE6' class as context, and making sure the specificity for
    * the selector is high enough to beat the single-class rule in the "both classes match" case. We place the IE6 rule at the end of the
    * css style block to make it easy to delete if you want to drop IE6 support.
    * If you decide you do not need IE6 support, you can get rid of these,as well as the inclusion of the SpryMenuBarIEWorkaroundsPlugin.jsscript.
    * The 'SpryIsIE6' class is placed on the HTML element by the script in SpryMenuBarIEWorkaroundsPlugin.js if the browser isInternet Explorer 6. This avoids the necessity of IE conditionalcomments for these rules.
    .SpryIsIE6 #MenuBar .MenuBarView .MenuItemWithSubMenuHover .MenuItemLabel /* IE6 selector  */{
        background-color: transparent; /* consider exposing this prop separately*/
        color: #ffffff;
    .SpryIsIE6 #MenuBar .MenuBarView .SubMenu .MenuItemWithSubMenuHover .MenuItemLabel/* IE6 selector  */{
        background-color: transparent; /* consider exposing this prop separately*/
        color: #ffffff;
    .SpryIsIE6 #MenuBar .SubMenu .SubMenu  /* IE6 selector  */{
        margin-left: -0px; /* Compensates for at least part of an IE6 "double padding" version of the "double margin" bug */
    /* EndOAWidget_Instance_2141544 */
    /* Ends Spry Menu Bar Widget 2.0 (1.0) Horizontal Menu Custom styles */
    </style>
    The CSS governing the site generally is reproduced below:  (my belief is that it is the a:link, a:visited,  a:hover, a:active styles that may be in conflict).
    @charset "utf-8";
    body  {
        font: 100% Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;
       min-height: 0; /* This is necessary to overcome the "haslayout" bugthat is found in Windows 7 in conjuction with IE8.  For Moreinformation see: URL -- http://reference.sitepoint.com/css/haslayout.html */
        margin: 0; /* it's good practice to zero the margin and padding of the body element to account for differing browser defaults */
        padding: 0;
        text-align:center; /* This allows for the centering of the container and overcomes a bug inherent in IE 5 */
        color: #000000;
        list-style-image: none;
        background-color: #FCFCFC;
    h1,h2,h3,h4,h5,h6 {
    color:#000066;
    a:link {
        color: #151A96;
        text-decoration: underline;
    a:visited {
        text-decoration: underline;
        color: #1B8DCD;
    a:hover {
        text-decoration: none;
        color: #F30A0A;
    a:active {
        text-decoration: underline;
        color: #151A96;
    #container {
        width: 960px;   
        margin: 0 auto; /* the auto margins (in conjunction with a width) center the page */
        text-align: left; /* this overrides the text-align: center on the body element. */
        background-image:
        url(../ACLCO%20Graphics%20-%20Web%20site%20Parts/Website%20Midsection %20_960.png);
        background-repeat: repeat-y;
    #header {
           padding: 0;  /* this padding matches the left alignment of the elementsin the divs that appear beneath it. If an image is used in the #headerinstead of text, you may want to remove the padding. */
            width:960px;
            height:332px;
            background-image:
            url(../ACLCO%20Graphics%20-%20Web%20site%20Parts/Website%20Header_960 .png);
            background-repeat:no-repeat;
    #header h1 {
        margin-right: 0px; /* zeroing the margin of the last element in the #header div will avoid margin collapse - an unexplainable space between divs. If the div has a border around it, this is not necessary as that also avoids the margin collapse */
        padding: 0; /* using padding instead of margin will allow you to keep the element away from the edges of the div */
        display:none;
    #header img {
        display: none;
    #Main_nav_contents {
        padding: 0;
        margin-top: 0px;
        height: 39px;
        width: 950px;       
        padding-top: 275px; 
        padding-left: 39px;
        z-index: 3; 
    #MenuBarVertical {
        margin-bottom: 50px;
        padding-top: 50px;
        padding-bottom:200px;
        padding-left: 15px;
        padding-right: 15px;
    .mainContent_left {
       margin: 0;/* the right margin on this div element creates the columndown the right side of the page - no matter how much content thesidebar1 div contains, the column space will remain. You can removethis margin if you want the #mainContent div's text to fill the#sidebar1 space when the content in #sidebar1 ends. */
        padding-left:30px;
        padding-right:20px; /* remember that padding is the space inside the div box and margin is the space outside the div box */
        width: 600px;
        float: left;
    .sidebar_right {
        float: right; /* since this element is floated, a width must be given */
        width: 270px; /* the actual width of this div, in standards-compliant browsers, or standards mode in Internet Explorer will include the padding and border in addition to the width */
        margin-top: 30px;
        margin-left:0;
        margin-right:10px;
        font-size:90%;
    .mainContent_right {
        margin-left: 10px;
        padding-left:30px;
        padding-right:20px;
        width: 600px;
        float: right;
    .sidebar_left {
        float: left; /* since this element is floated, a width must be given */
        width: 270px; /* the actual width of this div, in standards-compliant browsers, or standards mode in Internet Explorer will include the padding and border in addition to the width */
        margin-top: 30px;
        margin-left:30px;
        margin-right:0;
        overflow: hidden;
        font-size:90%;
    .main_content_centered {
        width: 650px;
        margin-left: 155px;
    .main_content_centered_header {
        margin-left: 75px;
    .sidebar_textbox {
        margin: 0px;   
        width: 260px;
        padding: 2px;
    .sidebar_textbox_header {
        width:255px;
        height:58px;
        background-image:url(../ACLCO%20Graphics%20-%20Web%20site%20Parts/Por trait%20Textbox%20Header.png);
    .sidebar_textbox_background_middle {
         width: 255px;   
        padding-top: 12px;   
        padding-bottom: 10px;
        background-image:url(../ACLCO%20Graphics%20-%20Web%20site%20Parts/Por trait%20Textbox%20Middle.png);
        background-repeat: repeat-y;
    .sidebar_textbox_content {
       /* The width and padding are set as follows to accomodate quirks inbrowser rendering and to ensure that text is contained within thebackground of the text box */
        width: 230px;
        padding-left: 20px;
        padding-right: 40px;
    .sidebar_textbox_footer {
        width:255px;
        height:64px;
    background-image:url(../ACLCO%20Graphics%20-%20Web%20site%20Parts/Port rait%20Textbox%20Footer.png);
    #issues_menu a:link {
        color: #151A96;
        text-decoration: none;
        font-weight:bold;
    #issues_menu a:visited {
        color: #151A96;
        font-weight:bold;
        text-decoration: none;
    #issues_menu a:hover {   
        color: #F30A0A;
        font-weight:bold;
        font-style: oblique;
        text-decoration: none;
    #issues_menu a:active {
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