DAM: integrate/harmonize Collections, Keywords and IPTC location

Lightroom currently presents the user with two independent methods to assign photos to a hierarchical structure: collections and keywords. Unless I missed something, keywords do everything that collections do, and more.
In addition, there is one structure that is inherently hierarchical, but is not currently implemented as such: the IPTC (metadata) location. For instance, the city of Amsterdam lies in the province of North Holland in The Netherlands, so entering Amsterdam in the 'City' field implies a province and a country.
Based on these observations, I have a couple of suggestions:
* Enhance the usability of collections with a few of the keyword features: listing all assigned collections upon selection, and dragging collections onto photos to assign.
* Allow users to convert collection trees to keyword trees, and possibly back (convenient for import/export, or changing ones mind as to what paradigm to use).
* Allow users to either export a keyword tree to the IPTC location fields, or to make a dynamic link between the two (i.e. updating the keyword would immediately affect the location data). This feature would also require an 'exclusivity swith', see below.
* Introduce an 'exclusivity switch' for keywords or collections, implying that you may only assign *one* keyword in its sub-tree to any particular image. This makes sense for location, because an image was made in a particular location, but it can also be used other contexts. For example, to indicate where the latest version of a file has been backed up to, or what the status (imported, selected, processed, finished) of a file is.
* Introduce dynamic collections *and* dynamic keywords. I have read things about query-based dynamic collections coming to Lightroom, but please also create 'dynamic keywords'. This would allow keywords to remain the catch-all organization structure, instead of dividing functionality across collections and keywords.
I think these features could make a significant contribution to Lightroom's DAM capabilities. If implemented alongside improved search capabilities, they would allow me (and possibly others) to stop using my stand-alone DAM application.
Simon

John, I had forgotten the fact that keywords do not have any output settings associated with them, unlike collections. I support your idea of indicating which collections have these settings attached to them.
Still, except for this point, keywords can currently be made to do the same things that collections do. You can even keep them private by choosing not to export certain keywords. Note that even though this is the case, I do not ask for the abolishment of collections per se, because it is convenient to maintain the *conceptual* difference (in addition to the output metadata in collections).
On the locations, I don't think the 'problem' is solved simply by exporting the location data to a keyword tree. It's the other direction that would greatly speed up the workflow. For example, dragging Amsterdam (potentially one of many Amsterdams) onto an image, would automatically assign the higher level fields as well. A metadata preset would indeed do the same, but only after one has created such a preset for every location, which can quickly add up.
Also, I did not mean to imply that dynamic keywords would be beneficial for keeping track of the location metadata. In general, dynamic categories (collections or keywords) are very useful for saving searches or keeping track of an internal workflow (like: if an image is not in a backup collection, it is not backed up). Specifically, I can imagine someone wanting to couple a search result to an exported keyword. For example, for a personal website or a Flickr account, you may want to tag images with the keyword '5stars' that is automatically generated.
The way I see it, there is currently no real difference in the logical structures that can be constructed using collections and keywords. The distinctions between the two are in the input or output phase. It would be a shame to see the logical capabilities of collections enhanced with 'smart' collections, whilst leaving keywords behind.
By the way, I'm all for a scripting interface, but I think that it's best to get the basics implemented in the right way first.
Simon
PS - You pointed out the existence of custom fields as a workflow solution. I have no experience with them, and don't have access to Lightroom on this machine, so I'll get back on that later.

Similar Messages

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    What are the best ways to safely take care of all of the information in Bridge to avoid wasting time reinstalling things after buying a new mac or clean installing it, having had a crash or... ?
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  • IPTC location metadata import.

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  • Location, keywords and geotagging

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  • LR 1.3.1 strange behaviour: L key adds keywords and removes pictures from collection

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  • Metadata, keywords and collections

    This may be a dumb question but I would like to be sure.
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    Can these keywords and metadata be used by other management software?
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    Boy a lot of questions!
    Is everything that I type in the metadata trough bridge and all the keywords that I assign to a file staying with that file/photo/video/photoshop etc.
    Keyword file is in user/app data/roaming/adobe/keywords
    Can these keywords and metadata be used by other management software?
    Keywords, and some metatdata, but not all, are imbedded on the file.  So other software,such as Windows Explorer, can read them, even if you send the photo to someone else.
    Is it possible to share collections over LAN or internet? If we have a a lot of organized assets in one computer, everyone is using that and if one user make a collection on his computer, others can see that collection in their bridge.
    Collections are like a spreadsheet with the addresses of the photos on your computer.  So they can not be shared by sending a collection to another.  When you get into a networked situation you have lost me as I don't use them.  If the other person can access the others' computer and look through thier files I guess they could.
    Hope this helps.

  • Metadata: IPTC Location bug

    Have clean LR install (no previous beta's) and fresh created database with 1159 images (mixed CR2 and jpg) on PC (AMD 3000+, 1Gig RAM) -and I do know how to maintain WinXP.
    I've selected one image and tagged all four IPTC location fields:
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    I still see country (Slovenia) there, but it contains zero entries! So I have in total 1159 Location entries, Slovenia zero entries and 1158 Unknown Country -weird. I can click on Slovenia (which is greyed out), but no image gets shown in thumbnail preview. If I look after this particular image manually, I can still see that image's Country is Slovenia (and I can also find image using Find: IPTC=Slovenia). Also I don't see State and City entries (which are "Doma") anymore in left pane.
    Yes, I've closed and reopened LR, but things remain the same. There's no way I can force LR to refresh it's database.
    Before continuing I need to say, that I AM database approach fan. Here and there I can read LR's database (workflow, speed,..) isn't so bad after all.. and that some are too picky, complaining all the time.... Let me tell, that LR's database approach is one of the worst I've seen so far:
    Reflections (updating on the left pane) to every correction made by user takes way too long. Actually I wouldn't care about that (being done in background), but if you type fast enough (on the right pane) and edit your mistakes here and there, then you simply cannot know how far have you come -it takes too long before left pane is up to date.
    Why can't I simply select couple of images and drag them into desired Location field (simila as with Keywords)? It's a basic task. Why there's no simply way to see untaged (Not Keyworded, Not Localized, Not edited) files? Yes, I can do something of that with Color/Star/Flag labeling, but why increasing workflow?
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    Greetings to all,
    Bogdan

    I think I'm getting to understand IPTC Location issue here (if somebody interested)...
    On the left panel (Metadata Browser), tag Location (once filled with some string) has the the lowest (deepest) position in the tree:
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  • How do I import Bridge keywords and metadata to CS6 from CS4 so that I don't lose them if CS4 is not

    I have hundreds of keywords and metadata including Ratings and Labels using CS4 and Bridge CS4.
    It is time to replace my PPC Mac with a new Intel Mac.
    I am going to install CS6 on the new Intel Mac without installing CS4.
    By default.... this eliminates ALL keywords and ratings and labels from my Bridge browser. The keywords will still be present on the files but Not present in Bridge keywords list and all ratings and labels will be lost.
    Making a copy of Bridge CS4 metadata to another computer is quite simple.
    Simply copy All of the Bridge CS4 application support folder to the other computer.
    The question then becomes.... can I aslo do this with CS6 without introducing an incompatibility?
    1. incompatible due to CS6 application support.
    2. incompatible due to transfer from a PPC (APM) to Intel (GUID).
    This concern results from an Bridge CS4 export problem I experienced.
    Bridge CS4 will export all of your keywords and you can import them from a text file but it has some odd troubles. (try it and you will see)
    This does Not mean that CS6 has the same troubles.
    What do I require to preserve existing metedata and keywords that exist on a PPC using CS4 and import them into CS6 using Intel?
    Sound simple?
    I doubt it.
    The points are.
    1. CS4 not installed.
    2. CS4 source is PPC not Intel.
    3. Ratings and Labels are metadata that Are Not part of the file metadata and unique to Bridge only.
    4. Keyword Search and keyword Use requires that Bridge have keyword list, otherwise Finder is the far more useful browser and the new version of Bridge will require hours of keyword listing.
    I don't want to spends hours retyping keywords lists in Bridge.

    Ratings are NOT placed into the file under CS4 Bridge and neither are
    Labels.
    That depends on your file type and settings voor Camera Raw.
    Like Curt stated usually metadata is written in to the file itself. Only Raw files can't be written to and by default they create a XMP file, also called Sidecar XMP files (and do have the same filename, only a different extension called .xmp). These files are also by default hidden in Bridge but If you use Bridge to move files they travel along with the original.
    If you move or copy them using finder you have to be sure these XMP files are also copied with the originals to the new location.
    Using the menu View / show hidden files should reveal the XMP files.
    An other option for the Camera Raw prefs is to set metadata to the Camera Raw database instead of written to sidecar XMP files ( to my knowledge using sidecar files has been the default since about CS3).
    Now here it becomes a bit tricky and I only can tell you my findings, not to be confused with true facts. (and mind you, it is at least 5 years ago I was on a PPC and not even remember which OSX 10 was able to work on it, I just present the acting of CS6 on an intel Mac Pro with OSX 10.7, but I don't believe the difference in location is that much)
    Having written the Metadata to the Camera Raw Database your image settings get written to a file in the user library preferences folder called logically "Adobe Camera Raw Database". But also some info gets added to the Camera Raw Cache folder (User library / Caches/ Adobe Camera Raw) in a file called index.dat.
    Also not having set metadata to xmp sidecars stores the ACR settings in a new .dat file with a unique number (not to be traced as a corresponding filename. And also the default maximum is set to 1 GB of space and when full the oldest files are overwritten with the new ones.
    Personally I use converted DNG files that are capable of writing metadata to so all info and settings are in the file itself and I don't need to bother about central storage that can get lost. The downside is that changes to a DNG need to save the whole file instead of a small xmp file and probably reading cache takes more time then getting info from central storage but I like to be on the safe side and speed is not really needed to be nailed down to split seconds in my workflow.
    Keywords are stored as a file in the Bridge preferences but Like Curt already stated exporting the old list first and then via the same route import again to CS6 should solve your problem and they will be back as persistent, otherwise the files in the content window show as italic and sadly enough have to be made persistent one by one with right click mouse menu, so that is not really an option for you.
    Exporting the list does create a text file that can also be altered manually with a simple text app and as said, again be imported in newer versions as Curt described earlier.
    Making a copy of Bridge CS4 metadata to another computer is quite simple.
    Simply copy All of the Bridge CS4 application support folder to the other computer.
    Well, in fact it is true to call copying this folders a simple task but replacing the existing new CS6 would not be my method. The biggest change for Bridge CS6 was the transition to 64 bit and I lack the knowledge for this but also cache format for thumbs and previews has been different for every version.
    But if you have located the CS4 folder for Bridge in your PPC user library / application support / Adobe / Bridge CS4 you should find a file called 'Adobe Bridge Keywords.xml' and it is fairly safe to replace this CS4 version with the new CS6 version.
    Also custom settings for the output module can be copied (however to my memory the option for custom settings in Output where introduced in CS5) and collections can be copied.
    So for your keywords the copy option might work, rating and labeling for Raw files they will be read in CS6 if they are stored as XMP. ACR settings idem but CS6 ACR has a new (2012) conversion mode that has different settings that do not work with previous settings (unless you first choose to use the 2010 conversion as default Raw setting.
    If it is in the Central Data Base I would start trying to replace the CS4 with the CS6 edition (after back up of existing CS6 version) and see what happens. If it works your out of trouble.
    You can also open the Camera raw Database as a text file but there is a lot of data in. Maybe scripting would be able to reveal those data and transfer to XMP but you have to visit the dedicated Scripting forum for this.
    And while you state to have not installed CS4 anymore it might be wise to reinstall it (but first make a proper back up of the previous mentioned folders and files to be on the save side.
    This gives you the opportunity to export keywords properly and if needed you can use Show Items from subfolders option with filter and set preferences to XMP sidecar to refresh the rating and labels to those XMP files. Just an escape route that might not be as painstakingly as it looks at first sight, just use the options for Bridge to filter.

  • Aperture Keywords VS IPTC keywords

    The Aperture manual says:
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    Thanks
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    I copied the text shown below from the online manual.
    *Applying IPTC Metadata and Keywords to Your Images*
    <SNIP> You can apply these keywords to your images when
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    To include metadata with images at export:
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    2 Choose File > Export > Versions (or press Command-Shift-E).
    3 Navigate to the location where you want the exported images placed.
    4 Choose Edit from the Export Preset pop-up menu.
    5 In the Export Presets dialog, select the export preset you want to use to export
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    6 Select the Include Metadata checkbox.
    7 Click OK.
    8 Choose a name format for your exported files from the Name Format pop-up menu.
    9 Click Export Versions.
    I am ok for steps 1,2,3. But, after I navigate to the folder, I don't see where I can "choose edit from an Export Preset Pop-up Menu"
    I don't have an Export preset Pop-up Menu....
    Is it on the file navigation window? Or the main Aperture pull-down menu?
    Thanks

  • Incompatibility issue with imported images losing keywords and other metada

    I am reposting this with a more descriptive title in hopes that the powers that be will look into this. This really nice piece of software is currently doubling the time in my workflow by having to re-input keywords, etc. after importing.
    Wayne_N
    Posts: 5
    From: Texas
    Registered: Sep 24, 2006
    Re: import keywords and ratings into Aperture from adobe apps?
    Posted: Nov 18, 2006 2:40 PM in response to: Egg
    Click to reply to this topic Reply email Email
    I am getting the opposite result. I have lost a lot of my keywords and various other data input in Bridge. Is there a setting I'm missing? I also put in Country name, city, state, contact, etc. in my Brdige metadata, but this is not importing with the RAW files. I am referencing images if that matters, although it shouldn't.
    Macbook Pro and Mac Pro Mac OS X (10.4.7)
    pvonk
    Posts: 19
    Registered: Mar 2, 2005
    New! Re: import keywords and ratings into Aperture from adobe apps?
    Posted: Nov 18, 2006 3:25 PM in response to: Egg
    Click to reply to this topic Reply email Email
    I also used Bridge/ACR to rate and add keywords to RAWS (Canon) and also used Adobe DNG converter to make DNG files from these.
    No ratings or keywords have imported for any RAWs and DNGs. And, for some DNG files (which I can see in Bridge and iViewMedia), they cannot be displayed in Aperture. It's very strange since I've used the same workflow to create the DNG files over the past year. Some can be imported/viewed, some cannot be viewed. All originally from the same camera/RAW file. I've read in this forum that Aperture cannot read things like keywords from sidecar files.
    I am hopeful that Apple will make DNG sidecar file import a big priority.
    - Pierre
    MacBook Pro, 2.16 GHz, 2 GB SDRAM Mac OS X (10.4.8)
    Macbook Pro and Mac Pro Mac OS X (10.4.7)
    Macbook Pro and Mac Pro Mac OS X (10.4.7)
    Macbook Pro and Mac Pro   Mac OS X (10.4.7)  
    Macbook Pro and Mac Pro   Mac OS X (10.4.7)  
    Macbook Pro and Mac Pro   Mac OS X (10.4.7)  
    Macbook Pro and Mac Pro   Mac OS X (10.4.7)  
    Macbook Pro and Mac Pro   Mac OS X (10.4.7)  
    Macbook Pro and Mac Pro   Mac OS X (10.4.7)  

    I have been testing Lightroom since beta 2, but after reading The DAM Book, I decided to hold off committing to LR since it was not clear that it would fit into the workflow recommended in the book.
    I had processed some of my recent photos, adding ratings and keywords (and doing some editing - but I knew that was not necessarily permanent due to LR's incompatibility with PS/Bridge when it came to metadata).
    I had briefly looked at Aperture a while back, but was turned off by the price (then $500) and the fact that it couldn't reference the original files. When the 1.5 demo came out with its improvements, I tried it and loved it! After much thought about the workflow I had developed, I decided that I could alter it so that Aperture would fit in - in fact it would be my main app (giving up Bridge/ACR/iViewMedia Pro).
    As per The DAM Book, I had begun converting my Canon RAWs to DNG (fortunately kept most of my RAWs). The first thing I discovered in the demo (I have since purchased the app, 1.5.1) was the fact that none of my ratings and keywords came through. Also, I used the color labels in Bridge to help during the evaluation phase, those didn't come through either, but I expected that. As I also noted in the previous post, some of my DNGs can't be viewed in Aperture even though they can be viewed in Bridge and iViewMedia.
    Fortunately, I had not "processed" all that many photos in my collection, so I can easily start again with the ratings and keywords. BUT there will be many photographers who have, and if Aperture hopes to tempt them away from LR or the other workflows, the Apple team should seriously consider providing support for Adobe's keywords/ratings found in sidecars and perhaps in DNGs. Also, good support of DNGs might be another thing to look at, as many users have been converting from RAW as I have.
    Just my three cents (inflation).
    - Pierre

  • IPTC location fields - best practices?

    Lightroom offers various location-related data - Scene, Location, City, State/Province, Country, ISO Country Code.
    Country and State/Province are usually straightforward. In a major city, City is also obvious, and for Location I typically enter a street name or street/cross-street.
    Elsewhere, things aren't so obvious. For example, I shot some pictures recently in a village with about 200 inhabitants: is that a city, or a location? Other pictures were taken between villages in a large river valley. Should I enter the name of the valley ("Wakhan Valley") as 'City'? What about shots taken on a major road? Would the name of the road ("Pamir Highway") count for City or Location?
    And what to enter for 'Scene'? And should ISO Country Code use 2-letter, 3-letter or numeric values?
    Does anyone have any advice to offer on these points, or pointers to industry guidelines?
    Thank you,
    Angus

    For industry guidelines, go directly to the IPTC organization. At the following link, download the IPTC Core PS Panel file (along the right side of the page), unzip the file, and look at the pdf for a description of how the various fields are generally used.
    http://www.iptc.org/IPTC4XMP/
    Of course, you can use them any way you wish. What you've described is most commom. Since Countries, States, and Cities are all political subdivisions (arbitrary man-made boundaries), I generally limit their use to just that. The village you described fits this criteria, so in my collection, I would use the City field. I broadly view the City field as being the smallest political subdivision that we use to govern ourselves (just my definition).
    The Location field, on the other hand, could be most anything defined politically, geographically, or otherwise. The IPTC standard suggests using only the Location field, leaving City blank, should you be on a mountain top in the middle of nowhere. Personally, I usually fill in the closest City to the location I'm at, but that might not be what the New York Times or other media outlets would do. I recently took some shots on board a flight at over the Gulf of Mexico - had to really scratch my head on how I wanted to fill in the IPTC fields. Made me wonder what NASA does.
    Hope this helps, Gary

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