Equi join as well as outer join
Hi all,
I have two table. They have common fields case_id and issuer_id.
I want to retrieve the data from two tables first based on case_id(equi join) and then issuer_id(outer join). The query like this
select t1.case_id,t1.case_name,t2.issuer_name from case t1,issuers t2
where t1.case_id=t2.case_id and t1.issuer_id=t2.issuer_id(+)
The above query displays error
so, My query first gets the data based on equijoin , then i want to apply outer join on that same tables.
plz try to solve the above problem
SQL> create table mycase
2 as
3 select 1 case_id, 'NAME1' case_name, 1 issuer_id from dual union all
4 select 2, 'NAME2', 2 from dual union all
5 select 3, 'NAME3', 3 from dual union all
6 select 4, 'NAME3', 4 from dual
7 /
Tabel is aangemaakt.
SQL> create table issuers
2 as
3 select 1 case_id, 1 issuer_id, 'ISSUER1' issuer_name from dual union all
4 select 2, 3, 'ISSUER2' from dual union all
5 select 3, 4, 'ISSUER3' from dual union all
6 select 4, 6, 'ISSUER4' from dual
7 /
Tabel is aangemaakt.
SQL> select t1.case_id,t1.case_name,t2.issuer_name from mycase t1,issuers t2
2 where t1.case_id=t2.case_id and t1.issuer_id=t2.issuer_id(+)
3 /
CASE_ID CASE_ ISSUER_
1 NAME1 ISSUER1
1 rij is geselecteerd.The above query doesn't make sense: the outer join predicate says "if I don't find a matching issuer_id, Oracle please make up an entire null issuer record for this one". Then the other predicate says "t1.case_id=t2.case_id" where a null value for t2.case_id will never match t1.case_id and will be excluded from the result set. Effectively you could drop the plus sign in this query to achieve the same result.
Maybe you want the query below?
SQL> select t1.case_id
2 , t1.case_name
3 , case t1.issuer_id
4 when t2.issuer_id then t2.issuer_name
5 else null
6 end issuer_name
7 from mycase t1
8 , issuers t2
9 where t1.case_id = t2.case_id
10 /
CASE_ID CASE_ ISSUER_
1 NAME1 ISSUER1
2 NAME2
3 NAME3
4 NAME3
4 rijen zijn geselecteerd.Regards,
Rob.
Similar Messages
-
Equi Join and Outer join using outer keyword
Hi,
First lets take the create statment for scott schema.
create table scott.emp_details(empno number, bonus_date date);
Insert Into Scott.Emp_Details Values(7369, To_Date('01-jan-2013'));
Insert Into Scott.Emp_Details Values(7499, To_Date('05-jan-2013'));
Insert Into Scott.Emp_Details Values(7521, To_Date('10-jan-2013'));
Insert Into Scott.Emp_Details Values(7566, To_Date('01-feb-2013'));
Insert Into Scott.Emp_Details Values(7654, To_Date('05-feb-2013'));
commit;lets also consider the basic scott.emp and scott.dept tables
Now I would like to equi join emp table deptno col with dept table deptno col and left outer join emp table hiredate with emp_details bonus_date and empno col in emp_details can be joined(Equi Join) with empno col of emp table if needed .The outer join has to be placed using the keyword (left/right)outer join
The select statement can have all the detials of emp table .The requirement may look weird but we have some such requirement.
Please suggestHi,
sri wrote:
Hi,
First lets take the create statment for scott schema.
create table scott.emp_details(empno number, bonus_date date);
Insert Into Scott.Emp_Details Values(7369, To_Date('01-jan-2013'));
Insert Into Scott.Emp_Details Values(7499, To_Date('05-jan-2013'));
Insert Into Scott.Emp_Details Values(7521, To_Date('10-jan-2013'));
Insert Into Scott.Emp_Details Values(7566, To_Date('01-feb-2013'));
Insert Into Scott.Emp_Details Values(7654, To_Date('05-feb-2013'));
commit;
It's best not to create your own tables in Oracle-supplied schemas, such as SCOTT. Use your own schema for your own tables.
lets also consider the basic scott.emp and scott.dept tablesI see; you're using the standard scott,emp and scott.dept tables, plus the emp_details table you posted above.
Now I would like to equi join emp table deptno col with dept table deptno col and left outer join emp table hiredate with emp_details bonus_date and empno col in emp_details can be joined(Equi Join) with empno col of emp table if needed .The outer join has to be placed using the keyword (left/right)outer join
The select statement can have all the detials of emp table .The requirement may look weird but we have some such requirement.
Please suggestThanks for posting the sample data. Don't forget to post the exact output you want from that sample data.
Do you want something like this?
` EMPNO ENAME DEPTNO DNAME BONUS_DAT
7369 SMITH 20 RESEARCH 01-JAN-13
7499 ALLEN 30 SALES 05-JAN-13
7521 WARD 30 SALES 10-JAN-13
7566 JONES 20 RESEARCH 01-FEB-13
7654 MARTIN 30 SALES 05-FEB-13
7698 BLAKE 30 SALES
7782 CLARK 10 ACCOUNTING
7788 SCOTT 20 RESEARCH
7839 KING 10 ACCOUNTING
7844 TURNER 30 SALES
7876 ADAMS 20 RESEARCH
7900 JAMES 30 SALES
7902 FORD 20 RESEARCH
7934 MILLER 10 ACCOUNTING
40 OPERATIONSIf so, here's one way to do it:
SELECT e.empno, e.ename -- or whatever columns you want
, d.deptno, d.dname -- or whatever columns you want
, ed.bonus_date
FROM scott.dept d
LEFT OUTER JOIN scott.emp e ON e.deptno = d.deptno
LEFT OUTER JOIN emp_details ed ON ed.empno = e.empno
ORDER BY e.empno
; -
May I know the difference in processing time or execution time when we use the Equi-Join and when we use Suquery in Search criteria.
Plz help, because the query (137 query) which we have written contains Subquery and fetching thousands of records, taking processing time 10 min.
We also altered the query batch with Equi-Joins and it is taking only 5 min. So can we say that Equi-Joins are much faster then Subquery.
Do Reply.
Thank in Advance
Vishal
(Database Developer)In theory, it shouldn't matter. If you are able to figure out how to unnest subquery, the optimiser query transformation engine would likely to be able to do that that as well.
-
Help needed on Equi join?
I have 3 views and in that common column datatype is varchar. I have to use equi join to get the data from 3 view.
In 3 views total records are 23668,111,3033
when i wrote the join i am getting the output in lakhs. I don't whether the output is right or not.
Please guide me on this.
Waiting for valuable replies.
Thanks and Regards
Sridhar.If you're returning more rows than you expect, it means that you have 1 to many or even many to many join.
I would re-write your query this way:
SELECT p.facid, rxs.rxno, rxs.rxbatch,patlname,patfname,InitReview,LabelPrintedOn,packed,PlacedInTote,street1,zip,BatchDescr
FROM Patients p
INNER JOIN rX.dbo.rxs rxs
ON p.facid = rxs.FacID
INNER JOIN rX.dbo.RxBatches Batch
ON p.facid= Batch.FacID
WHERE p.facid in('CRH','LSRX') and Batch.batchdescr LIKE 'STAT%'
I also suggest to add alias to every column in your query. Even if the column belongs to a particular table, adding the alias in front of it will make maintenance of this query much easier. Say, I have no idea if BatchDescr field belongs to the second table
RxBatches or rxS, so I made a guess.
For every expert, there is an equal and opposite expert. - Becker's Law
My blog
My TechNet articles -
Equi join v/s natural join
hi
i am using oracle 9.0.1.1.1...
and using hr schema table employees and departments..when i use equi join on both table it return 107 ...when perform natural join it return 32 rows,,i read in books equi and natural join is same ....why both r return diffrent answer...if they r same...The following sample data was used:
WITH emp as
SELECT 'joe' AS emp, 1 AS dept_id FROM DUAL UNION ALL
SELECT 'jill' AS emp, 1 AS dept_id FROM DUAL UNION ALL
SELECT 'jack' AS emp, 1 AS dept_id FROM DUAL UNION ALL
SELECT 'jane' AS emp, 2 AS dept_id FROM DUAL UNION ALL
SELECT 'jeb' AS emp, 2 AS dept_id FROM DUAL UNION ALL
SELECT 'jed' AS emp, 2 AS dept_id FROM DUAL UNION ALL
SELECT 'joseph' AS emp, 3 AS dept_id FROM DUAL UNION ALL
SELECT 'jackie' AS emp, 3 AS dept_id FROM DUAL
dept as
SELECT 'accounting' as dept_name, 1 as dept_id, 2 as real_dept_id FROM DUAL UNION ALL
SELECT 'IT' as dept_name, 2 as dept_id, 4 as real_dept_id FROM DUAL UNION ALL
SELECT 'hr' as dept_name, 3 as dept_id, 6 as real_dept_id FROM DUAL
)NATURAL JOIN (implicitly joins on dept_id columns because of the same column name):
SELECT emp,dept_name
FROM emp NATURAL JOIN dept
EMP DEPT_NAME
joe accounting
jill accounting
jack accounting
jane IT
jeb IT
jed IT
joseph hr
jackie hrEQUIJOIN, you must specify the columns. In this case if you specify the same join condition the NATURAL JOIN chose you will get the same results:
SELECT emp,dept_name
FROM emp JOIN dept ON dept.dept_id = emp.dept_id
EMP DEPT_NAME
joe accounting
jill accounting
jack accounting
jane IT
jeb IT
jed IT
joseph hr
jackie hrHowever, if the real join column was REAL_DEPT_ID then the NATURAL JOIN cannot satisfy that condition because the column names are different. You would have to use the EQUIJOIN
SELECT emp,dept_name
FROM emp JOIN dept ON dept.real_dept_id = emp.dept_id
EMP DEPT_NAME
jane accounting
jeb accounting
jed accountingHope this helps! -
how can we identify that when we have to use equi join and when we have to use non equi join?
Hi,
Use an equi-join if you want to join two tables when each table has a value that will be exactly the same as some value in the other table.
For example, each department in scott.dept has a deptno. Employees in scott.emp are asigned to department. The deptno value of the department (from the scott.dept table) is also put into the deptno column of the scott.emp table. When joining those tables by deptno, use an equi-join:
FROM scott.dept d
JOIN scott.emp e ON e.deptno = d.deptno -
Equi join-same output get from subquery??
Hi,
I written one equi-join query, same ouput can i get from sub query??.
select e.empno,e.ename from emp e,dept d
where e.deptno=d.deptno;
Regards,
Venkat.Really have no idea what you mean.
If you need those d. columns, just add them to your select list.
There's no subquery here at all. -
Can sombody tell me the difference betweeen Query 1 * Query 2. They give the same result. Let me know keeping performance in mind which one should be used.
create table x (id number, name varchar2(100))
create table y (id number, name varchar2(100))
create table z (id number, name varchar2(100))
insert into x values(1,'test1')
insert into x values(2,'test2')
insert into x values(3,'test3')
insert into x values(4,'test4')
insert into y values(1,'test5')
insert into y values(3,'test6')
insert into z values(1,'test7')
insert into z values(4,'test8')
QUERY1
select x.id,y.id,z.id,x.name,y.name,z.name
from x,y,z
where
x.id = y.id
and x.id = z.id
and (x.id =2 or x.id = 1)
QUERY2
select x.id,y.id,z.id,x.name,y.name,z.name
from x
JOIN y
ON x.id = y.id
JOIN z
ON x.id = z.id
and (x.id =2 or x.id = 1)Sorry i forgot the integrity constraints:
create table x (id number, name varchar2(100))
create table y (id number, name varchar2(100))
create table z (id number, name varchar2(100))
alter table x add constraint x_pk primary key(id)
alter table y add constraint y_fk foreign key(id)
REFERENCES X(ID)
alter table z add constraint z_fk foreign key(id)
REFERENCES X(ID)
insert into x values(1,'test1')
insert into x values(2,'test2')
insert into x values(3,'test3')
insert into x values(4,'test4')
insert into y values(1,'test5')
insert into y values(3,'test6')
insert into z values(1,'test7')
insert into z values(4,'test8')
select x.id,y.id,z.id,x.name,y.name,z.name
from x,y,z
where
x.id = y.id
and x.id = z.id
and (x.id =2 or x.id = 1)
select x.id,y.id,z.id,x.name,y.name,z.name
from x
JOIN y
ON x.id = y.id
JOIN z
ON x.id = z.id
and (x.id =2 or x.id = 1) -
Hi
Let's say I have three tables ORDERS, PRODUCT and CLIENT. I want a query that will give me all PRODUCT and CLIENT combinations and the total sum of orders if it has one. If I try to do this:
select P.NAME, C.NAME, SUM(O.AMOUNT)
from PRODUCT P, CLIENT C, ORDER O
where P.ID = O.PRODUCT_ID(+) and
C.ID = O.CLIENT_ID(+)
I get an error where I cannot double outer join a table.
Any ideas?3360 wrote:
BluShadow wrote:
and ANSI allows a little more in those terms than regular oracle syntax.It is different, but it cannot do anything that regular equi-joins cannot do. In most cases the optimizer converts ANSI joins to regular joins for execution, and this additional conversion has been subject to numerous bugs.ANSI does allow for doing things that regular Oracle syntax cannot do.
Here's an ANSI way to do it if you only want to see those client/product combinations that exist in orders table:
SQL> with product as (
2 select 101 id, 'Product 1' name from dual union all
3 select 102 id, 'Product 2' name from dual union all
4 select 103 id, 'Product 3' name from dual
5 ), client as (
6 select 11 id, 'Client 1' name from dual union all
7 select 12 id, 'Client 2' name from dual
8 ), orders as (
9 select 11 client_id, 101 product_id, 10 amount from dual union all
10 select 11 client_id, 103 product_id, 30 amount from dual union all
11 select 12 client_id, 102 product_id, 20 amount from dual union all
12 select 12 client_id, 102 product_id, 20 amount from dual
13 )
14 --
15 -- end-of-test-data
16 --
17 select p.name
18 , c.name
19 , sum(o.amount)
20 from orders o
21 left outer join product p
22 on p.id = o.product_id
23 left outer join client c
24 on c.id = o.client_id
25 group by
26 p.name
27 , c.name
28 order by
29 p.name
30 , c.name
31 /
NAME NAME SUM(O.AMOUNT)
Product 1 Client 1 10
Product 2 Client 2 40
Product 3 Client 1 30(If the datamodel is good with product_id being a foreign key of product.id and the same with client, then outer join is not really necessary, I know. But for the sake of argument assume bad datamodel that needs outer join ;-) )
The above ANSI can be written in regular Oracle syntax as well:
SQL> with product as (
2 select 101 id, 'Product 1' name from dual union all
3 select 102 id, 'Product 2' name from dual union all
4 select 103 id, 'Product 3' name from dual
5 ), client as (
6 select 11 id, 'Client 1' name from dual union all
7 select 12 id, 'Client 2' name from dual
8 ), orders as (
9 select 11 client_id, 101 product_id, 10 amount from dual union all
10 select 11 client_id, 103 product_id, 30 amount from dual union all
11 select 12 client_id, 102 product_id, 20 amount from dual union all
12 select 12 client_id, 102 product_id, 20 amount from dual
13 )
14 --
15 -- end-of-test-data
16 --
17 select p.name
18 , c.name
19 , sum(o.amount)
20 from orders o, product p, client c
21 where p.id(+) = o.product_id
22 and c.id(+) = o.client_id
23 group by
24 p.name
25 , c.name
26 order by
27 p.name
28 , c.name
29 /
NAME NAME SUM(O.AMOUNT)
Product 1 Client 1 10
Product 2 Client 2 40
Product 3 Client 1 30Many old Oracle coders will probably state that this syntax is much easier. For a simple case like this I find both ways easy. But I have complex cases where I much prefer ANSI where I can easily distinguish join predicates from filter predicates. It is a matter of opinion, I know ;-)
But if we then take the original post as a literal specification, that we want all combinations of products and clients and then the sum of order amount if it exists, null otherwise.
This can be written easily in ANSI notation:
SQL> with product as (
2 select 101 id, 'Product 1' name from dual union all
3 select 102 id, 'Product 2' name from dual union all
4 select 103 id, 'Product 3' name from dual
5 ), client as (
6 select 11 id, 'Client 1' name from dual union all
7 select 12 id, 'Client 2' name from dual
8 ), orders as (
9 select 11 client_id, 101 product_id, 10 amount from dual union all
10 select 11 client_id, 103 product_id, 30 amount from dual union all
11 select 12 client_id, 102 product_id, 20 amount from dual union all
12 select 12 client_id, 102 product_id, 20 amount from dual
13 )
14 --
15 -- end-of-test-data
16 --
17 select p.name
18 , c.name
19 , sum(o.amount)
20 from product p
21 cross join client c
22 left outer join orders o
23 on o.product_id = p.id
24 and o.client_id = c.id
25 group by
26 p.name
27 , c.name
28 order by
29 p.name
30 , c.name
31 /
NAME NAME SUM(O.AMOUNT)
Product 1 Client 1 10
Product 1 Client 2
Product 2 Client 1
Product 2 Client 2 40
Product 3 Client 1 30
Product 3 Client 2
6 rows selected.ANSI notation allows outer join with more than one table.
Regular Oracle syntax could only do this by creating an inline view of the cartesian join and then outer joining orders with the inline view. Doable, but not as nice (IMHO) as the ANSI method for a case like this ;-) -
Full outer join --- bug? Urgent
Hi,
I have a simple mapping using 2 source tables and doing an full outer join. While executing the mapping it is throwing me out with an error --
Starting Execution LOAD_SAP
Starting Task LOAD_SAP
ORA-01790: expression must have same datatype as corresponding expression
ORA-02063: preceding line from ODSD@LOC_TGT_LOC_ODSD
ORA-06512: at "DWH_USER.LOAD_SAP", line 12
ORA-06512: at "DWH_USER.LOAD_SAP", line 481
ORA-06512: at "DWH_USER.LOAD_SAP", line 795
ORA-06512: at "DWH_USER.LOAD_SAP", line 1973
ORA-06512: at line 1
Completing Task LOAD_SAP
Completing Execution LOAD_SAP
The SQL generated at line 12 is -
CURSOR "JOIN_c" IS
SELECT
/*+ DRIVING_SITE("CONNECTION_LOC_TGT_LOC_ODSD") */
"CONNECTION_LOC_TGT_LOC_ODSD"."END_USER_CUST_ID" "END_USER_CUST_ID",
"SERVICE_LOC_TGT_LOC_ODSD"."SERVICE_NAME" "SERVICE_NAME",
"CONNECTION_LOC_TGT_LOC_ODSD"."CE_CLLI" "CE_CLLI",
"CONNECTION_LOC_TGT_LOC_ODSD"."PE_CLLI" "PE_CLLI"
FROM "ODS"."CONNECTION"@"ODSD"@"LOC_TGT_LOC_ODSD" "CONNECTION_LOC_TGT_LOC_ODSD"
FULL OUTER JOIN "ODS"."SERVICE"@"ODSD"@"LOC_TGT_LOC_ODSD" "SERVICE_LOC_TGT_LOC_ODSD" ON ("CONNECTION_LOC_TGT_LOC_ODSD"."END_USER_CUST_ID" = "SERVICE_LOC_TGT_LOC_ODSD"."END_USER_CUST_ID") ;
If I replace the Full outer join with an equi join everything works fine. The SQL generated with an equi-join is ---
SELECT
/*+ DRIVING_SITE("CONNECTION_LOC_TGT_LOC_ODSD") */
"CONNECTION_LOC_TGT_LOC_ODSD"."END_USER_CUST_ID" "END_USER_CUST_ID",
"SERVICE_LOC_TGT_LOC_ODSD"."SERVICE_NAME" "SERVICE_NAME",
"CONNECTION_LOC_TGT_LOC_ODSD"."CE_CLLI" "CE_CLLI",
"CONNECTION_LOC_TGT_LOC_ODSD"."PE_CLLI" "PE_CLLI"
FROM "ODS"."CONNECTION"@"ODSD"@"LOC_TGT_LOC_ODSD" "CONNECTION_LOC_TGT_LOC_ODSD",
"ODS"."SERVICE"@"ODSD"@"LOC_TGT_LOC_ODSD" "SERVICE_LOC_TGT_LOC_ODSD" WHERE ( "CONNECTION_LOC_TGT_LOC_ODSD"."END_USER_CUST_ID" = "SERVICE_LOC_TGT_LOC_ODSD"."END_USER_CUST_ID" );
We are using Oracle 9.2.0.4 AND OWB Clinet 9.2.0.2.8 and runtime repository 9.2.0.2.0.
Any help on this appreciated?The discussion on this thread has moved to the later thread Problem with JOINs
Nikolai -
Multiple Outer join in ORACLE 8.1.6
Hi ,
Can anybody suggest me how can i use multiple outer join on one table. I'm using ORACLE 8.1.6.
I know this version of oracle doesnt support this. But is there anmy other wa\y I can achieve this.
Thanks amd Regards
DeependraTricky question - but I went through this about 3 months ago, and found a good thread on here that explains it pretty well.
check out Re: Outer join a table with two diff table
You basically will have to create an inline view with one outer join in there, and then a second outer join on the outside. Read through the posts in that thread and it should help! -
I am trying to do left outer join in ODI for the source tables in SQLserver.
I have created a join between 2 columns and made it left outer join by checking the box in join properties.
It is not working as expected. In the query it just does T1.Col1=T2.col1 and makes it as equi join.
Any suggestions?
ThanksI have the same problem..
For example:
Interface:
SOURCE: tbl_employee, tbl_positions
TARGET: tbl_persons
In ANSI SQL it would be:
INSERT INTO tbl_persons (..., position_name)
select ..., tbl_positions.name from tbl_employee left join tbl_positions on tbl_employee.pos_id = tbl_positions.id
But when I execute Interface, inserted data as JOIN, didn't inserted "NULL" in position_name.
"LEFT JOIN" is in Interface's script...
How decide this problem? -
Outer Joins Generated in SQL but not specified in Data Foundation
Hi:
I created a very simple universe on a MS Access database. there are four tables, joined by equi joins. Yet, when I select the objects (one from each table), the generated SQL has outer joins! This was not the case in XI 3.1 using Designer. Has anyone else run into this?
I tried to create a similar scenario with SQL server and I got the same issue.
Here is the generated SQL from the MS Access based query:
SELECT
Country.country,
Region.region,
City.city,
Customer.first_name,
Customer.last_name
FROM
Country,
Region,
City,
Customer,
{ oj Country LEFT OUTER JOIN Region ON Country.country_id=Region.country_id },
{ oj Region LEFT OUTER JOIN City ON Region.region_id=City.region_id },
{ oj City LEFT OUTER JOIN Customer ON City.city_id=Customer.city_id }
Notice all the outer joins -- they are not specified as outer joins in Data Foundation yet Webi Rich Client continues to generate the outer joins.
Thanks!
-MikeHi,
This sounds familiar.
I think this may have been a bug recently solved in Patch2.10 for BI 4.0 SP02
Whenever a user creates a join in the data foundation using drag & drop (and not editing the join using the UI), the flag for defining the outer join status is improperly set.
This causes the SQL generation to create a left outer join when the UI displays that no outer join has been set.
The workaround is to edit the join (double-click to show the join editor) and then do OK. In this case a inner join will be used in the SQL generation.
This was confirmed fixed (in an internal discussion) in Patch2.10 . Does it sound familar ?
Regards,
H -
How to create a condition with out join
Hi all,
I m using Oracle Discovere Desktop. I want to know that how can i use outer join in conditions.
e.u.
category(+) = 'E'
RegardsHi,
Actually i want to use both equi join and outer join in my one worksheet I have discussed with Micheal and he told me that this is not possible. Because whenever you create more then one condition between two same folders then you have to choose only one condition prompted by Desktop during creation of worksheet.
Anyway thanks for reply.
Best Regards,
Hassan -
Joining 2 Tables - Left outer joing is not working
I have a primary Table and then a Secondary. I am doing the left outer join and what I am expecting a list from my primary table and if any thing matches from seconday , that should be picked up. But what my CR2008 does it l it lists all the items on my primary and if there is one record matches from 2ndry, it will list that record in front of all the items from my primary.
What am I doing wrongequi join = inner join
T1 T2
key value key result
1 100 1 A
2 200 3 B
3 300 5 C
Equi Join= Inner Join: T1 inner join T2 on t1.key = t2.key
Key Value Result
1 100 A
3 300 B
Left Outer Join; T1 left outer join T2 on t1.key = t2.key
Key Value Result
1 100 A
2 200 *null*
3 300 B
Right Outer Join: T1 1 right outer join T2 on t1.key = t2.key
Key Value Result
1 100 A
3 300 B
5 *null* C
Full outer join: T1 full outer joib T2 on t1.key = t2.key
Key Value Result
1 100 A
2 200 *null*
3 300 B
5 *null* C
Edited by: Jürgen Kirsch on Oct 20, 2009 5:05 PM
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