FCE Vs iMovie. Quality Difference?

hello there.
i'm just wondering whether such emphasised phrases as "high quality effects/transitions/rendering/etc" in the FCE manual or general description mean that, for instance, iMovie's quality, as far as rendering, effects and transitions are concerned, is worse. am i correct in understanding so?..
the problem i am facing is that, although i'm in the middle of switching to FCE from iMovie for doing all/most of my video work, i still find that i've got much-much more effects and transitions in iMovie than in FCE, due to having 7 of the 10 Slick-GeeThree packages. so what i'm thinking is that i could share the work between the two applications, using the best features of each to the benefit of my projects.
however... the thought that suddenly occurred to me was - would the quality of my video footage suffer in iMovie? or has iMovie got the same quality parameters as FCE?

thanks for your replies.
i don't think i'll be having any problems with audio, as most of my projects are music videos, which means i won't be using the sound of the original footage: the soundtrack is added separately.
as for the quality of some effects. yes, that's exactly what i meant. the captured video looks great in iMovie. but as soon as i add such effects as colour correction, for instance, or saturation, the sharpness of the picture disappears and it starts to look edgy. for example, if it's a human face, the original oval curve of a cheek or a chin will look slightly saw-edged, i.e. i can spot square pixels...
which is why i thought that perhaps the "high quality" bit in the FCE official description meant that i won't be encountering similar problems in FInal Cut?

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IMovie HD and FCE 4: video quality difference?

Hello,
I imported 20+ hours of video and organized it in FCE4. However, as a novice amateur video artist, I find it far easier to work in the older iMovie HD than FCE4. Do you lose video quality in any way by working in this simpler application?
iMovie HD allows you to save files at "full quality" as a .dv file, but this is still compressed, right?
If I should just suck it up and learn Final Cut in order to not lose video quality, please let me know. Thanks...

The quality for the most part will be the same. Do not try to mix the two applications. They work in different formats. Either work in iMovie or learn FCE, which, if you know how to use it is, is much faster. The more complex the program becomes the faster it will be in comparison to iMovie.

More about FCE vs iMovie import

Everyone should remember that FCE originally only supported HDV. And, as Steve writes in his book, HDV is always RECORDED as 1080i by both FCE and iM. Makes no difference what you set you camera too.
There are no 1080P settings for FCE -- only 1080I and 720P. This is the world of HDV.
When FCE first supported AVCHD it only did 1440x1080i. Then they added support for 1920x1080i.
Steve found that 1080p30 AVCHD was converted to 1080i60 AIC. He assumed FCE missed the fact the video was PROGESSIVE. I think he mat be wrong. I think FCE saw 1080p30 and said "I don't support 1080p30" so I'll convert it to INTERLACE when I compress it to AIC.
So I Goggled MPEG-2 and learned that progressive has a HEADER per FRAME while interlace a HEADER per FIELD. WOW!
That means when P becomes I the number of Headers doubles. Since each Header is a bunch of bits, the I file must become larger -- without any increase in image quality.
This may explain why you found 20% more bits but no difference in picture quality. What do you think?
Can you give us the data rates for 1080i60 for FCE and iM. This is where yu can really see if there is any quality difference. If the bit rates are the the same then the video is the quality is the same.
And, can you post the picture that you used to compare FCE vs iMovie. I'd like to see if I can SEE any difference.
PS: does imakefullhd support 10.6 yt?

Both 1080i50 and 1080p25 are RECORDED on AVCHD as 1080i50 at 25fps.
Although this is different behavior from the Region 60 Canon's, it is not incorrect. FCE and FCP will convert this to 1080i50 AIC with a frame rate of 25fps. The difference is that the video SHOT at 25p will never show combing!
How does iM09 convert (Optimize) them to AIC?
Both 1080i50 and 1080p25 are converted to 1080i50 AIC.
A) If you add a Swap FX to 1080i50 (shot at 50i) and export as 1080i50 you'll see NO combing because iM sees the 50i and deinterlaces.
That's not what happens! Adding a Swap FX to 1080i50 (shot at 50i) and exporting as 1080i50 you WILL see combing because iM did not deinterlace. This indicates that iM09 is "seeing" the video as PROGRESSIVE and passing all 1080-lines through.
Either iM09 is ignoring the QT 50i tag or it is checking the 25fps tag and calling it 25p or it is ignoring both QT flags and working internally with all 1080-lines -- just like iM08 and iM09 v8.0.0. I suspect that Apple only changed the Region 60 code when they released 8.0.1.
B) If you add a Swap FX to 1080i50 (shot at 25p) and export as 1080i50 you'll see NO combing because no combing is possible with Progressive video.
PS1: what will FCE do with 1080p25? Since the AVCHD recording claims it is 1080i50 it will pass it through as 1080i50 AIC just as does iM09. This will make no problems for FCE.
PS2: Just as a reminder: 1080i60 and 1080i60/24p are recorded as AVCHD at 1080i60. Both FCE and iM09 pass both through as 1080i60 AIC. However, 1080p25 is recorded as AVCHD at 1080p25. iM09 passes this through as 1080p25 AIC. FCE converts it to 1080i50 AIC.

Importing DVD into FCE with decent quality

Can anyone tell me what they would do if they needed to import a DVD into FCE maintain decent quality? Not a produced movie, just like a home movie...and I can't afford DVD Pro...
Thanks very much!
Curt

Hi
My old list on this
*DVD back for futhur editing*
A. don't put a mini DVD into Your Mac unless it’s a trayloaded DVD burner/reader
B. iMovie’08 prob. 09 can import from DVD (homemade without copyprotection)
C. I prefere one of these two ways
• Copy to miniDV tape from set-top DVD-player --> Camera -or-
• Roxio Toast™ - Can back convert to streamingDV for iMovie or FinalCut
D. Read what Karsten collected.
*DVD back to iMovie.*
.. and here the complete 'full 9 yards' ... .
//discussions.apple.com/thread.jspa?messageID=3822853&#3822853
DVDs are in a socalled delivery format (mpeg2), which isn't meant and
made for any processing as editing... or, as honorable forum member
QuicktimeKirk stated. I use the analogy of the old Polaroid
"instant" cameras. Push the button, wait for the print to develop and
show it off. ..
for using the iLife apps, you have to convert'em first, in
recommended order, choose one of the following tools/workarounds.
• DVDxDV (free trial, 25$, Pro. 90$)
• Apple mpeg2 plugin (19$) + Streamclip (free)
• Cinematize >60$
• Mpeg2Works >25$ + Apple plug-in
• Toast 6/7/8/9/10 allows converting to dv/insert dvd, hit apple-k
• connect a miniDV Camcorder with analogue input to a DVD-player and transfer disk to tape/use as converter
• Drop2DV (free) a free tool claiming to convert DVDs into dv-stream...
• Use iSquint for your conversions . www.iSquint.org
from. Bobby Keene
none of these apps override copyprotection mechanisms as on commercial dvds...
//danslagle.com/mac/iMovie/tips_tricks/6010.shtml
//danslagle.com/mac/iMovie/tips_tricks/6018.shtml
be nice to copy rights ^-^
... and, next time, try the forum's search-feature...
from Beverly M.
//docs.info.apple.com/article.html?artnum=42724
Yours Bengt W

Backing up unedited family video: Should I capture using FCE or iMovie?

I have >50 hours of family video (kids) that I'm not ready to edit yet. I would like to capture the footage in order to back it up because it is priceless. My plan is to buy some large hard disks and save video there, and then when Blu-Ray comes out, I'll buy a Blu-Ray drive and burn Blu-Ray disks as an additional layer of safety.
The captured files will need to be in a format that lasts. As far as I can tell, both FCE and iMovie save captured clips as Quicktime files, which I'm guessing will be around for a while and compatible with future video editing apps. Both FCE and iMovie can import Quicktime clips. I'll be importing the entire hour of video from each tape, in a single capture.
My question is this:
If...
(a) rendering doesn't bother me (like importing clips using iMovie then editing using FCE)
(b) timecode isn't important to me (iMovie doesn't save timecode)
... is there any reason to capture the video using Final Cut instead of iMovie?
The only feature that FCE has that iMovie doesn't, is the ability to detect dropped frames during capture. Are there other reasons?
I like the fact that iMovie splits the capture into individual clips at each break and saves each clip as an individual file. If you're willing to do the work, FCE/FCP can do this to, using DV Start/Stop detect, making the segments into subclips, then exporting them as individual clips. FCP makes this a practical possibility using batch export, whereas FCE lacks that feature and exporting each clip one by one is impractical (I have maybe 200 individual clips per hour of tape). But this is a task I plan for later. Right now my concern is finding the "best way" to capture and save all this video for later editing.
I guess I could also ask, should timecode be important to me? My tapes contain a lot of timecode breaks, so recapturing video from tape automatically isn't likely to work well. I don't know any other reason timecode might be important for consumer-level family video.
PowerMac G5 Quad 2.5 GHz 3GB RAM Mac OS X (10.4.7) NVIDIA GeForce 7800GT

Anthony,
while I fully agree with Al answer, let me add one note in favor of iMovie in answering your original specific question (note: I'm a quite happy user of FCE for all its advantages over iMovie, but for the point I'm going to make).
The basic difference between FCE and iMovie in scene detection (based on the same principle of using date/time breaks as dividers), is that iMovie creates as many media files as clips during capture itself, while FCE Subclips are created AFTER the capture of a unique media file, using DV Start/Stop Detect and Make Subclip, that does NOT splits files.
So you'd better consider now if recovering unused disk space, by trashing unused clips, will be a major issue for you in the future, when you'll be editing your movies. If so, keep in mind that this job is very simple if you captured with iMovie and then imported its clips to FCE (and if you confirm you don't mind about TC and audio rendering), while it is quite complex if you captured directly with FCE, and, I'd say, not recommended unless absolutely needed.
Piero

Follow-up question to FCE vs. iMovie

When I asked yesterday for a comparison of FCE to iMovie, and how they were different, I realized what I really I want to know is why FCE is considered better than iMovie. And what can FCE do that iMovie can't do? Thanks.

Please don't start another thread on the same topic when you have one that you haven't responded to.
The question is mostly answered in the thread that was linked in your original post. What about the discussion in that linked thread is not clear?
http://discussions.apple.com/message.jspa?messageID=13175828#13175828
x

Print quality difference between iphoto and aperture...?

when ordering books, is there a print quality difference between using iPhoto and Aperture? or are they sent to the same lab?
it's possible i may have some setting wrong, but when i order a book using iphoto, i never really feel the quality is that great. it's good, i just feel it could be a lot better. the print quality sort of reminds me of newsprint, albeit high quality newsprint. similar sized prints made at home on my basic 3-in-1 printer look better.
thanks...

Previews are what you view on your display. When you import a photo into Aperture (and I'm pretty sure iPhoto as well), your computer automatically generates a preview for quick viewing. The original images are stored in your library, but it is the preview that you see.
In Aperture, you are able to set the size and quality of these previews. When sharing photos between Aperture and iPhoto, the process is as follows:
Let's say that your images are stored in Aperture, but you also want to be able to view them in iPhoto without taking up too much room on your hard drive. Essentially, if you were to import the originals into iPhoto as well, you would be storing two exact, yet separate copies of the same image on your hard drive. As you are aware, with large images (whether JPEG's, and especially RAW) this would put quite a tax on your storage capacity after not too long.
So, you have your images in one or the other (in this case Aperture), but you want to play around with them in iPhoto. What you can do, is open iPhoto, go to the File menu and then select, Show Aperture Library. This will open a window with all of the contents of your Aperture Library. You can then drag any images you want into iPhoto . The only thing is, you are not dragging the original JPEG's, but rather, the previews of those images. If you have those previews set to a lower quality (again for capacity concerns), you will only have lower quality and lower detailed images in iPhoto. These images might not be ideal, or even suitable for printing high quality prints. The previews that you generate in Aperture though can be adjusted to be extremely high quality with no size limits.
My thinking was that since you mentioned Aperture, it sounded like you had experience with working with it and with ordering a photo book through Aperture. I guess you were saying that you ordered via iPhoto, weren't happy with the quality and were wondering if Aperture created books were better.
Anyway, if this is the case, I cannot answer that for you. I have never ordered a book through Aperture. If the quality of your images is good, you should be able to get a decent product no matter where you order it from. There is not doubt that the materials used and the print shop that does the work makes a difference, but if your images are good, you should still get a decent product through iPhoto. Perhaps iPhoto isn't the way to go though if you have had poor experiences with them.
If you haven't used Aperture yet, I would highly recommend it though aside from the photo book aspect of this thread. It is a stellar product.
I hope this helps.
Message was edited by: macorin

LARGE GPU vs. CPU Export quality differences in MPEG2 (and others?)

I noticed that encoding to MPEG2 (for DVD's) using the CPU (through Media Encoder) produces much better results than does the MPEG2 codec the uses the GPU. Just finished a documentary and was preparing it for DVD. During fades to black, I would get grey macroblock errors on the first full-black frame. Also the encode quality was very poor (mosquito noise, lots of pixelation, and the macroblock errors). Rather than exporting directly from the timeline, I decided to queue to Media Encoder (which on CS6, only uses the CPU). While this increased the render time from 20 minutes up to 55 minutes (for a 57-minute show), the resultant file was of much higher quality (less mosquito noise, no macroblock errors, MUCH less pixelation). Both of these encodes had the exact same parameters. Exact. With the Media Encoder render, the CPU was maxed properly at 99% and the GPU was only handling the RT Effects from the timeline and such, varying in the low percentages of its utilization. With the GPU direct timeline render, the CPU was working around 40%-50% and the GPU was utilizing about 50%-88% of its potential.
I also tried test renders changing from single-pass to two-pass encoding. Absolutely no difference. Results were visually identical with same issues in GPU encode. Also tried the usual tests with switching on and off various features (maximum render quality, maximum depth, etc.)
I'm assuming, as with many other compression programs, there are different codecs because of the different processor architectures (cpu vs. gpu).
Has anyone else seen whether this has been resolved in later versions (CC+)? Because while I LOVE the low render times, the quality difference is HUGE (with MPEG2 for DVD).
Thanks!
Intel 3930K
16GB RAM
GTX680 2GB
CS6
Win7/64 SP1

Give us your screenshots to better understand

Why is so hard for FCE or iMovie to read AVCHD files?

I have some AVCHD files (.MTS) on a hard disk. No camera. And no, the directory format has not been preserved. The files were just copied, and renamed for backup purposes. "Log and Transfer..." in FCE gives me an error about the directory structure. And I can't import with iMovie (just won't let me select the files.)
Now, I think I would have a better chance of finding a solution, if I knew why Final Cut Express 4 or iMovie 7.1.1 can only read the AVCHD file format from the camera directly, or when the directories are setup in a particular way.
Why can't it just read the file? Like how any program can read a JPEG without having to plug-in a camera or create a folder called "PRIVATE" or whatever?
I've wasted several hours on this problem today, and the the only conclusion i can come up with is that Apple has some seriously incompetent or just plain lazy engineers.
There must be a proper technical reason... right?

Hi -
Jason Moore3 wrote:
It's just so weird that all FCE and iMovie can read the files - they just require you to "connect the camera". Why is the camera so important to reading the file?
It's not. It's just an easy way to insure that when FCE or iMovie are looking at the file storage directory, FCE or iMovie will see all the files, the metadata, the media, etc.. It also makes for an easier work flow- just plug in the camera, no need to off-load files and remember where the are stored, etc.. And, it helps develop a workflow where people are not just copying the media files to another disk without the metadata, as in your case, or make a mistake and copy the metadata without the media.
Imagine this: three big tractor trailers pull up outside your house loaded with stuff. As you go out to meet them a driver hands you a small package. You open it up, and inside is a complete description of what is packed, how each item is packed, where each item is in the container, and how best to unpack the containers for the easiest installation in your house. That is what the metadata does. Could you unpack the containers without it? Yes. Is it the optimal way? No.
Many threads discuss how it's possible to backup the whole directory and making a disk image and then "tricking" iMovie/FCE into reading the files, which leads me to think that this stupidity is intentional.
This is not a trick. iMovie has the "Archive All" button on the import window. To later access those files you would use the menu File > Import > Camera Archive. In FCE, where one would expect a slightly more computer savvy user, you can use Disk Utility to create a disk image of the contents of the camcorder files, then later, use Log and Transfer from within FCE to import the footage from that disk image.
Someone doesn't want people to actually have a HD video format that is easy to work with (OMG pirates!!) and so it's been crippled to make it a PITA to work with.
Hmmm, well, all you have to do is follow the recommended workflow - connect the camera, import the footage, and edit. FCE and iMovie take care of the footage conversion from AVCHD which is a format incredibly difficult to edit in to a format that allows easy editing, all without user intervention.
The end result is, I can't view my own content.
The system Apple developed of converting AVCHD to either AIC or Pro Res is probably the best way to make the editing process as painless as possible for the end user.
Having said that, Sony Vegas, a windows application, will natively edit AVCHD files, without any conversion. I don't have any experience with it so can't say what the experience is like, but it might be an alternative for you if the iMovie/FCE workflow is not working for you.
Hope this helps.
Message was edited by: Meg The Dog to fix typo

Widescreen from FCE to iMovie

How do I ensure that widescreen in FCE exports to widescreen in iMovie. The iMovie project is created as widescreen, but when I export from FCE which is also in widescreen it open in iMovie as a small rectangular box with a very large border of black.
Thanks

What are the sequence settings & clip settings in your FCE sequence? You can check these in the FCE Browser.
How are you exporting from FCE? To QuickTime Movie ... or to QuickTime Conversion?
What versions of FCE and iMovie are you using?

Tape or Live Capture? Quality Difference?

I have never captured live footage direct from camera to computer. I have an opportunity to do so tomorrow on a 2-camera shoot. I have questions:
1) Is it possible to capture 2 firewire streams simultaneously in OnLocation or with some other program?
2) Is there a quality difference between live capture from an HDV camcorder and from a tape?
3) I have a Matrox MX02 Mini with which I can capture a stream via component HD. How does this compare quality-wise to HDV?
It is a long event - a bodybuilding contest (about 4 hours) I would love to save time not having to capture from tape afterwards, but wondering if the setup is worth it. I do not have a laptop, so I would bring my editing computer to the gig.

Hi(Bonjour)!
If you shooted in DV format (standard resolution) monitor your footage on a Standard tv monitor, not on a HD one.
Did you shoot with extended play activated ?
See this post:
http://discussions.apple.com/click.jspa?searchID=-1&messageID=3921401
Michel Boissonneault

Fce or imovie 06

what are some advantages with using fce over imovie 06 ? i've only been using a mac for a few months now and have gotten pretty used to using i movie 06. i like imovie 08 for editing but it just does not have as many features as i like it to have. for only $200 it seems really tempting, i'm just not sure what it would add for me.
another thing for me is to be able to add a new track to a movie and be able to choose which track to listen to when played on a dvd player. i know imovie does not do this. does fce do this ?

I think you should read something about FCE: Final Cut Express.
Anyway FCE (and today a new version 4 was released) provides far more features than iMovie.
And it's also quite different from iMovie (either 6 or 08) and more difficult to learn: as a Mercedes is different from a... bike: with both you can move around, but you need a driver licence for a Mercedes.
About being able to choose tracks on the DVD player, it's not a feature for iMovie or FCE: It's up to the DVD authoring application. And, as far as I know, only DVD Studio (in the FCS 2 suite) can do that.
Piero

Quality difference between picture taken with iPhone 4 and 4S when sent to iPad?

Is there quality difference in picture if it's taken with iPhone 4 and sent to iPad via iMessage or if it's taken with iPhone 4S? Or does the software compress the images so that it doesn't matter if the 4S has better camera because both will be compressed to equally small file size?
At least video quality is compressed so badly when sent via iMessage that it's unwatchable in iPad. Picture quality seems "ok" when sent from my iPhone 4, but I'm thining if 4S would be able to send images in better quality.

Yes, but iMessage will always "optimize" videos (= make the file size small and quality bad), does it make the same process for images too? If it does, then the slightly better camera doesn't matter because both will be compressed to same low quality file.

Print PDF vs Save as PDF - Quality Difference?

I know there's other posts about PDF vs Save but I didn't see my issue answered, so here it goes:
I print a lot of large-format (24"x36" and larger) Illustrator files that contain both vector drawings and raster images. The guys at my print center insist that we do a print to PDF and not a save as PDF. So my questions are:
Is there a quality difference between printing and saving?
Does one have better vector quality?
Does one have better raster quality?
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An important oversite is accessibility. Apparently screen readers, like JAWS, used by visually-impared students, can NOT interpret PDFs created via printing. However, PDFs created by "Saving As" CAN be read by JAWS.
Since colleges, like where I work, are required by law to be accessible ("508 compliant"), this becomes a huge issue. Therefore I'll be recommending that all faculty create PDFs using the "Save As" function, large file or not.
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If so, feel free to e-mail me at [email protected]
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Encore - CS6 vs Older Version (2006 Copy) Encoding Quality Difference?

Encore - CS6 vs Older Version (2006 Copy) Encoding Quality Difference?
I have an 2006 Copy of Encore for SD DVD's, will a new version have better quality encoding? Thank You

They both use the MainConcept encoder, so it's likely you won't be able to see much difference.
For a real improvement, go the freeware route.
HC Encoder for MPEG2
http://www.bitburners.com/hc-encoder/
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http://www.videohelp.com/tools/XviD4PSP

FCE Vs iMovie. Quality Difference?

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