File size Tiff vs Psd

Does anyone know exactly why .psd files save out in a smaller size than a .tiff
In other words, if I create a tif then duplicate that same file and save it as a .psd, the .psd
is significantly smaller than the identical tiff. This seems to hold true for flat files and layered files.
anyone?

This is only true if you save the PSD without the backwards compatibility option...that's the differences in sizes. TIFF can actually use Zip compression with is more efficient than PSD's RLE compression.

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ACR PSD files - larger file size and max compatible

When using ACR > Save As to save a bunch of PSD files from raw files the resulting PSD file sizes are larger.
for example:
if I output and save from ACR directly to a folder as a PSD, I'm seeing the file size at 63.1 MB
If I open the raw file to PS and save it within Photoshop to a PSD file the file size is 56.1 MB ( this is true whether the Max Compatible is turned on or off... probably because it's a flat PSD file)
why the difference? same output settings from ACR, bit depth etc.
Also,
The file saved out of ACR appears to be "tagged" as a Maximum compatible file even though it is flat, so subsequent saves, even if the PS pref is set to Never for maximum compatibility are disregarded. Whereas the same file that was opened into PS from ACR and then saved with the Never PS pref behaves correctly.
Is there a preference setting within ACR to not save the PSD's as Maximum compatible?
thanks
j
ACR 6.4
PS 12.0.4
10.6.7

Hi Noel
I may not have been clear in my post. It's not about PSD v. Raw file size, just comparing PSD files.
Starting with a raw file ( in this case a 5DmII CR2)
Using the same settings (mid-bottom of ACR window) when saving a file using the "save image" within ACR or opening the file into PS and then saving. This is where I'm seeing the file size difference.
The second part of the problem is that PSD files that are saved directly out of ACR using the "save image" (bottom left of ACR window) are all set as Maximum Compatibility. As a result opening these files will always be have the extra data and saving time that files with Maximum Compatibility enabled have. The only way to get around this is to have your PS prefs set to Never or Ask and the "Save As" to overwrite the file.
I just reprocessed a folder of PSD's that were saved out of ACR by overwriting as above and the 36 files (with layers, retouching etc) went from 6.9GB to 5.6GB, and the save time is also faster.
This isn't intended to be a discussion about the benefits or disadvantages of the Maximum Compatibiliy "feature", but just a question as to whether it can be turned off in PSDs saved from ACR.
thanks
j

CS6 Links Window Shows jpeg file name but not tiff or psd file name

So I have a question, I noticed that in CS5 and CS6 that when i place a jpeg file in Illustrator, the file name does appear in the links window, but when i place a tiff or a psd file there is no file name in the links window, this drives me nuts. Is there a way to see the files name of placed psd and tiffs in the links window?

Here's my thoughts...
1. You are a bit confused and I wonder how you can determine a file is a PSD or a TIF by looking at it? Not all print drivers can recognize PSD's, but can recognize TIF ( this means almost all output devices can interpret TIF's no problem ). That said, PSD's can manage layers better than TIF's which add to file size each layer you include in the TIF.
2. Never say never. This all depends on the file's use. Layered TIFs can add complexity in which a print driver can or cannot deal with. As you work on an image, you may want to merge layers for whatever reason(s) and you always have the option to flatten whenever you feel like it. However, It is also a good idea to dupe the file as you move along. That means you always have a layered version to fall back on should you need to edit later on. I also Place transparent PSDs in Illustrator files with no problems. But, I save as EPS in Illustrator and when I do that, then the file is automatically flattened. This is perhaps what the internet was talking about.
3. Yes, see number 2 above. There's no such thing as automatic flattening of TIFFs. Again, this all depends on the printer and whether or not it can print while retaining original layers. Some do, some don't. Most of the time, I edit in PSD with layers intact. Then, when I prep the file for printing, I will save a copy as a flattened TIFF so the file streamlines through the RIP and Print process.
4. Makes no difference. Use 'em if you've got 'em.
Try to get some good resource material at a library or college bookstore or barnes & noble. Also, get Adobe's Print Publishing Guide. This is a good reference guide.
Message was edited by: John Danek

External Editors file format- choose more than one:i.e. either tiff or psd

External Editors file format- would like to be able to choose more than one OR I'd like to be able to easily change between opening a file in an external editor in either psd format or tiff. i.e. PSDs to photoshop, or TIFFs to one or more other editors like Topaz Labs, FX Photo Studio Pro or Snapseed.
While when editing in PhotoShop, one would like to edit in psd format, other plug-ins will not take a psd format, they need tiff. There is only one choice for external editor in Aperture. is it possible to set up a work around for this?
This issue is also discussed on http://www.apertureexpert.com/tips/2012/1/25/using-3rd-party-apps-with-aperture. html

Here's my thoughts...
1. You are a bit confused and I wonder how you can determine a file is a PSD or a TIF by looking at it? Not all print drivers can recognize PSD's, but can recognize TIF ( this means almost all output devices can interpret TIF's no problem ). That said, PSD's can manage layers better than TIF's which add to file size each layer you include in the TIF.
2. Never say never. This all depends on the file's use. Layered TIFs can add complexity in which a print driver can or cannot deal with. As you work on an image, you may want to merge layers for whatever reason(s) and you always have the option to flatten whenever you feel like it. However, It is also a good idea to dupe the file as you move along. That means you always have a layered version to fall back on should you need to edit later on. I also Place transparent PSDs in Illustrator files with no problems. But, I save as EPS in Illustrator and when I do that, then the file is automatically flattened. This is perhaps what the internet was talking about.
3. Yes, see number 2 above. There's no such thing as automatic flattening of TIFFs. Again, this all depends on the printer and whether or not it can print while retaining original layers. Some do, some don't. Most of the time, I edit in PSD with layers intact. Then, when I prep the file for printing, I will save a copy as a flattened TIFF so the file streamlines through the RIP and Print process.
4. Makes no difference. Use 'em if you've got 'em.
Try to get some good resource material at a library or college bookstore or barnes & noble. Also, get Adobe's Print Publishing Guide. This is a good reference guide.
Message was edited by: John Danek

How to reduce size of RAW & PSD files after all adjustments are finished?

I thought I read something about an Aperture feature that reduces file size of RAW files to something like a large .jpg file. I have finished adjusting many RAW files and could better use the disc space for other things. Is there any such feature or procedure? I have not upgraded to Aperture 2.0 but will soon.
Also, after making the round-trip to PhotoShop Elements, I see a large PSD file. Can I shrink that file after all adjustments are made?

If you're using referenced files in Aperture, you can archive the raw files onto a CD or some other place and delete the original. Just make sure Aperture is set to generate previews before you do this. That way you can see the file even after it's gone. You can't export or make any adjustments unless you can re-link the raw file.
And as far as PSD files, you should change your preferences to use TIFF for external editors. Then at least you can save the file in Photoshop as a compressed TIFF, which can save quite a bit of room. Also, I've noticed that Aperture uses 16-bit TIFF files, so you can save even more room by converting the file to an 8-bit TIFF.
By the way, take note that while Aperture defaults to ".tiff" as it's file suffix for TIFF files, Photoshop prefers ".tif". This can cause confusion. You've been warned.

How can I reduce the file size when saving a psd as a pdf

I have a psd with graphics and text, it is 8.5 x 11, 300 ppi
I flatten the image and go to save as .pdf I un-check all of the options in general.
In compression, I have tried a dozen different combinations and the way I've found to get a document that is not pixelated or blurry is to use jpeg 2000 > lossless or jpeg > maximum.
So I have a high quality document but the file sizes are around 900 kb.
I have downloaded other people's documents of the exact same type and size (8.5 x 11, 300 ppi) that I am making and viewed them in Photoshop, they are not pixelated or blurry and their file sizes are 300 kb or even less than 200 kb
How are they doing this?!

Delete all unused, invisible layers.
Sometimes zip compression is better than jpg compression (in the pdf output settings). Zip is lossless, and works better with non gradient colour or no images.
Flattening the image before you save it to pdf can reduce the file size if you are using jpg compression.
Post a preview of your pdf and we can comment further on how to reduce the file size.

How do I keep the same file size, going from tiff to jpg?

Going from tiff to jpg, how do I keep the same file size? Seems like I am not able to save the jpg´s in 16-bits... Thanks!

file size? you mean dimensions or file bytes ?
Jpg is compressed so it won't be the same
Tiff is losless / lossy format to get the better quality
as for 16bit jpg the format doesnt support it

PSD files sent over FTP given 1kb file size, archived, and have .bin appended to extension

I'm trying to deliver PSD files to someone over our server's FTP. If the FTP shared folder is accessed via a browser (like safari which is the main thing I've been testing on), the files in are listed as being only 1kb in size when each is approximately 60MB and all have had .bin appended to the .psd file extension. When the file is downloaded it's still 1kb and when opened it is associated with the archive utility which attempts to unarchive it and produces and identically named and extensioned file of 4kb size which cannot be opened by preview or text edit or photoshop.
Changing the extension does not help as suggested here http://forums.appleinsider.com/archive/index.php/t-25119.html . Also if the file is downloaded via 3rd party FTP software like cyber duck, though the file size is listed as 1kb, the correct size file is downloaded though still has the .bin extension. When this full sized .bin file is opened, archive utility instead of unarchiving attempts to archive it and produces a file roughly half the size which too cannot be opened. Speaking with apple care resulted in the suggestion that I use terminal command line to force the client to use binary mode when downloading the file which also downloads a file of correct size but with the .bin extension and that can not be opened.
Is this a known issue with PSD files? I've not come accross this before, the server is configured correctly and different file types are successfully downloading with no changes to size or extension and then opening as they should upon receipt at the client side.

Hi and thanks,
that was my next port of call but I stumbled across a more permanent fix. Mac OSX server automatically converts files sent over FTP to something called MacBinary on the fly and it seems this process doesn't agree with PSD files. Someone else encountered this problem back in 2003 and found this solution
http://forums.appleinsider.com/archive/index.php/t-25119.html
speaking to apple care they also sent a link for the official mac instructions for achieving the same thing here
http://support.apple.com/kb/TA20996
and here
http://support.apple.com/kb/TA20645?viewlocale=en_US
in the second explanation it's important to note for anyone attempting to follow this that if you're fixing the problem on MacOsX server rather than just MacOSX it isn't necessary to enable the root account as it is automatically enabled by default. Simply log out and log back in as root and use the same password as the first administrator account you set up when the server was first configured.

Tiff file size reduction

I notice that when I open a tiff file with CS6 and then close it, the size has been reduced. If I do the same thing with Microsoft Image software, the file stays the same size. Any idea why? As far as I know I am not telling Cs6 to compress the file.

Using PS CS6 with NO changes applied to the original TIFF the JPEG file size is 8.686 MB. The slightly larger file size is due to metadata differences between LR and PS.
Both Adobe applications (PS CS6 and LR 5.71) are producing near identical and much larger highest quality JPEG files. PS 12 Quality is the same as LR 100.
SUGGESTION:
1) Close LR and rename your LR Preferences file by adding the extension .OLD to it:
Mac OS X
Preferences
/Users/[user name]/Library/Preferences/com.adobe.Lightroom5.plist.OLD
Windows 7 & 8
Preferences
C:\Users\[user name]\AppData\Roaming\Adobe\Lightroom\Preferences\Lightroom 5 Preferences.agprefs.OLD
Reopen LR and it will create a new Preferences file. Try the JPEG Export again using the same settings as I have posted.
2) If still no change I suggest uninstalling LR, delete the new LR Preferences file created in step #1 above, keep the .OLD Preferences file, and reinstall LR 5.71.
3) If all is well now close LR and try restoring you original Preferences file by renaming the new Preferences file something like .OLD.OLD and removing .OLD from the original file.

Include Develop settings in metadata inside JPEG, TIFF, and PSD files ignored when unchecked

In the Catalog Settings under the Metadata tab, I have unchecked the option 'Include Develop settings in metadata inside JPEG, TIFF and PSD files'.
I then selected a JPEG photograph in the Library module and chose Metadata/Save Metatdata to File. I wanted to save the metadata that I had added (keywords, IPTC, rating, etc), but not the develop settings.
I then imported the jpeg back into another catalog. The metadata I had added was there as expected, but so are the develop settings. This I did not expect or want.
Have I got something wrong here? My understanding is that turning off the 'Include Develop settings in metadata inside JPEG, TIFF and PSD files' option means that develop settings are not written to the xmp area in non raw files such as jpegs.
Looks like a bug to me.
Tony

Hello all,
I have investigated this problem further and now have the answer. It is not that the option "Include Develop settings in metadata inside JPEG, TIFF, and PSD files" is ignored, but it appears that the LR catalog is not properly updated when this option is turned off.
Here are steps to test and illustrate the problem:
1. Create a new folder and place a copy of an original jpeg image (original from camera) in the new folder. Make sure you keep the original safe and only work on copies.
2. Create a new catalog in Lightroom 2.3.
3. Import the jpeg image from the new folder.
4. Add some metadata (keywords, ratings, title, caption, IPTC data, etc).
5. Make some Develop adjustments to the image.
6. Open "Catalogue Settings" from the Edit menu and check (enable) the option "Include Develop settings in metadata inside JPEG, TIFF, and PSD files". Uncheck (disable) the "Automatically write changes into XMP" option.
7. Select "Save Metadata to File".
8. Delete the jpeg image from the Library module, then re-import it.
9. Copy the original image back to the new folder, replacing the updated jpeg (once again, the jpeg image now contains no metadata from Lightroom). At this stage, Lightroom fails to recognize that the metadata in the LR catalog doesn’t match the metadata content in the jpeg file. I would have though that it should.
10. Open "Catalogue Settings" from the Edit menu and uncheck (turn off) the option "Include Develop settings in metadata inside JPEG, TIFF, and PSD files".
11. Reset the Develop settings.
12. You now need to make a change to the metadata like increase or decrease the rating (otherwise LR won’t save any metadata to the jpeg file - LR is being too smart and thinks it’s already up to date, so does nothing when you do the next step).
12. Select "Save Metadata to File".
13. Delete the jpeg image from the Library module again, then re-import it again.
14. Look at the develop settings (that you specifically did not want saved within the jpeg file in step 10).
Although the Develop settings were Reset in step 11, you have ended up with the original Develop settings from step 5. It is true that LR has not saved the reset develop settings, but it also hasn’t removed the old develop settings that are still stored in the catalog. This must be considered a bug (oversight). Note that it has also saved an Import snapshot as well.
For the more technically minded (and the LR developers if you are listening), the field "xmp" in the table "Adobe_AdditionalMetadata" is not updated (old camera raw settings and snapshot settings are left behind) when the "Include Develop settings in metadata inside JPEG, TIFF, and PSD files" option is unchecked (disabled) and it seems that this is the data that is written to the jpeg file when you select "Save Metadata to File". Note that the state of "Automatically write changes into XMP" has not effect on this process - I tried it on and off.
Hope that this might be of some help to others one day.
Tony

.psd file size does not make any sense to me

I am hoping someone can explain the huge .psd file sizes I am seeing.
I have a Canon 7D and shoot raw. I have a raw file that is 24.6 Mbytes and is a 3456 x 5184 pixel image. I then open with ACR and do nothing but save it as a 16-bit .psd file with the same image (pixel) resolution. The .psd file is 102.5 Mbytes.
By my calcs a 3456 x 5184 x 2 bytes (16 bit depth) is 35.8 Mbytes uncompressed. Yet the .psd is nearly 3 times this size before it is ever opened in Photoshop.
Can anyone explain why? My 256 GByte disk has been eaten up like a bunch of breath mints...

Your assumptions are wrong.
"16 bit" RGB data has 3 colors per pixel x 16 bits per color. Thus, 3456 x 5184 x 6 bytes = 107 megabytes and change.
The raw file has, as I recall, 14 bits per photosite of measurement data that has not been debayered. Only one color range of light is measured per photosite.
Both the Canon CR2 raw format and the Photoshop PSD format include lossless compression as well.
I hope this helps clear things up.
-Noel

What does "Include develop settings metadata inside JPEG, TIFF, and PSD files" do?

I am wondering what the option "Include develop settings metadata inside JPEG, TIFF, and PSD files" found in catalog settings/metadata does? what happens if you uncheck it?

Bob12312321 wrote:
also when this is unchecked will lightroom still save keyword changes to raw(nef) files? thank you!
Metadata ("real" metadata like keyowords nor develop adjustments) are never saved into non-DNG Raw files (like .nef, .cr2) directly. With these files, there is always a so called sidecar file (with the extension .xmp) created to hold the XMP information.
And yes, if the option is unchecked, LR will save the keywords to the XMP sidecars, when you perform "Write Metadata to File" or have the autowrite option active.
Beat

When round tripping with photoshop cc, i get a saved psd file with my original raw,the problem is these are high file sizes and taking a lot of space,can i stop this?

when round tripping with photoshop cc, i get a saved psd file with my original raw,the problem is these are high file sizes and taking a lot of space,can i stop this?

That's not the workflow that I use. I have my Lightroom preferences set to create TIF images when going to Photoshop. I keep the original raw file and the TIF image (usually reduced to an 8-bit image) and only export JPEG's when they are needed to send to a lab or to send to someone over the Internet. JPEG files are highly compressed. I only create them when they are needed, and they are discarded as soon as they have been used for their intended purpose. I keep the raw file and the Photoshop-created TIF in my library. This requires extra disk space. But I always have the highest quality files available.

Bloated PSD File Sizes?

Our 18MB 14-bit Canon camera produces RAW images (converted to uncompressed DNG) that are about 22MB. On a Win7-64bit CS6 workstation, the PSD file that is created from the DNGs has the following sizes (single layer, no masks/paths, maximum compatibility):
16 bit, DNG as smart object: 207MB (10x of the DNG)
16 bit, DNG as rasterized layer: 187MB (8.5x of the DNG)
8-bit (less information than the DNG), DNG as smart object: 115MB (5.2x of DNG)
8-bit (less information than the DNG), DNG as rasterized layer: 95MB (4.3x of DNG)
Just for kicks, a blank 8-bit image with a white background layer saves as 818KB, adding a few scribbles with the brush tool saves the file at about 30MB.
Am I missing something? Is this normal? I know that storage is cheap these days, but sheesh! Does anyone know of a more efficient workflow?
thanks!
JP

Guess you need a primer on the differences tween raw files and rendered files. Raw files that have not been demosiaced are indeed small bcause the raw data hasn't been turned into RGB pixels yet. Once a raw file is rendered into RGB pixels, you get a much larger file, 8-bit is actually more like 3x the raw file (although that changes based on compression options when saving and whether you have backwards compatibility turned on or off). A 16-bit file will be 2x the size of an 8-bit file–again, depending on compression options. Saving a raw file in a Smart Object makes the file sizes swell considerably because it has to save the a copy of the raw file inside the rendered file plus any layers plush a composite preview.
So, what you've discovered is, it's useful to keep a raw file raw until you need a rendered file. When rendered, you'll have to expect the file sizes to be much larger...

16x9, 300ppi, 75mb tiff file, LR converts to 1mb jpg. Export in LR 5 is being done at 100%, no file size reduction.

I've got a 16x9, 300ppi, 75mb tiff file that LR converts to 1mb jpg. Export in LR 5 is being done at 100%, no file size reduction. Can't figure out why it is downsizing so small? Even upsized to 420ppi in PS and the export was still only 2mb. Stock agency wants 3mb .jpg minimum. Any help appreciated. Thanks.

Using PS CS6 with NO changes applied to the original TIFF the JPEG file size is 8.686 MB. The slightly larger file size is due to metadata differences between LR and PS.
Both Adobe applications (PS CS6 and LR 5.71) are producing near identical and much larger highest quality JPEG files. PS 12 Quality is the same as LR 100.
SUGGESTION:
1) Close LR and rename your LR Preferences file by adding the extension .OLD to it:
Mac OS X
Preferences
/Users/[user name]/Library/Preferences/com.adobe.Lightroom5.plist.OLD
Windows 7 & 8
Preferences
C:\Users\[user name]\AppData\Roaming\Adobe\Lightroom\Preferences\Lightroom 5 Preferences.agprefs.OLD
Reopen LR and it will create a new Preferences file. Try the JPEG Export again using the same settings as I have posted.
2) If still no change I suggest uninstalling LR, delete the new LR Preferences file created in step #1 above, keep the .OLD Preferences file, and reinstall LR 5.71.
3) If all is well now close LR and try restoring you original Preferences file by renaming the new Preferences file something like .OLD.OLD and removing .OLD from the original file.

File size Tiff vs Psd

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