Greyscale images

I am trying to create medical wall posters. I have converted the X-ray images to Greyscale using Photoshop, then inserted them into my Indesign poster. After exporting to pdf then printing, the images are no longer greyscale but are coming out in various tones of purple-blue grey. How can I keep my greyscale images "grey: without losing my coloured images? I have tried converting in Acrobat Pro, but this converts all my images to greyscale - I cannot select just the x-ray images. Thanks to anyone who can help.

I copied your screen. I have now also tried withthe following which seems to work quite well. Thanks for your help - I would never have got this sorted without it!!
Sarah.

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How do I paint accurate grey levels between 0-254 in an alpha or a greyscale image? Seems impossible ... Works in 5.5 .. not in CC. Bug?

So here's the thing . I need to be able to assign accurate shades of grey in an alpha channel as our code takes the value (between 0-244) and uses it to do its thing. I assumed this would be easy .. just choose your colour and paint .. but not so.
In an alpha channel, or even in a greyscale image, make a selection and fill it with RGB 6,6,6. Since there doesn't seem to be a way to get a greyscale pallette or input the value for Alpha this is th eonly way I can see to do it.
Now, using the info panel, check that it is indeed RGB 6,6,6. It is.
Now, make another selection and fill it with RGB 7,7,7. Check this with the info panel and ... its 6,6,6.
OK so now use levels or brightness to try to shift that 6,6,6 upto 7,7,7 ... check it with the eyedropper color sampler tool .
What you'll find is that the RGB value will go from 6,6,6 .. to 8,8,8 to 10,10,10 it's impossible to make it 7,7,7 or 9,9,9. Theres a whole bunch of other values that are also impossible.
If you do the above in any of the RGB channels themselves it will work fine .. its just the Alpha and in a greyscale image.
On a similar vein, on a regular layer, fill an area with you RGB 7,7,7, copy it and paste it into your alpha. Looks fine .. until you use levels to increase the contrast and you'll find that what was 7,7,7 is now a noise filled mixture of, I assume, 6,6,6 and 8,8,8.
( NB. As a note the above also happened in CS5 but in an old version of Photoshop 5.5 it works perfectly .. I can give the RGB 7,7,7 and the value thats painted is 7,7,7. Bring it into CC and its fine. So its just the creation of tones in CC that is wrong.
Also, it works fine if you edit the individual RGB channels .. you can get 6,6,6 AND 7,7,7 .. but as soon as you copy and paste it into the alpha . .the 7,7,7 reverts to 6,6,6 )
So
Q1 .. what am I doing wrong?
Q2 .. if 8bit alphas and greyscale images can have values ranging from 0-254 .. then how do I define the value I actually want? I can't use the K value as that's only a percentage so has fewer increments and there isn't a separate input for alpha value.
Q3 .. or put it more simply .. how do I set the grey value to a particular number, eg. 7
Thanks.
Pat
Message was edited by: Patrick Ward

Thanks Herbert. I'll have a good look at Photoline.
I don't know if these have anything to do with it but
the first is the color settings from CS5,
the second is the default from a demo install of CC14. I see the gamma tickbox but it doesn't refer to the alpha.
the thrid are the colour settings of PS 5.5. Note this is the one that gives the correct ( with respect to my expectations ) result

How can I minimise the file size of a greyscale image ?

Hi,
What methods are there for making as small as possible the file size of a greyscale image. I need to keep the resolution at 200pixels per inch. The image is going to be big, 5835mm wide and 1780mm tall ! Some of them have some fine soft detail so I need to keep an eye on how that degrades. Others are better.
Can the same work for colour images or are there different approaches for those ?
Thanks
Envirographics

My need is to enlarge up a plan for placement in, then tracing over in a CAD program, retaining the fine detail prior to tracing. I have some at 1/10th the full size item at 200ppi, others still as digital slr raw files. I have found that less than 200ppi the detail starts to go. considering this, if I am now working full size item surely I would need 200ppi also ? I could try simply enlarging it up 'as is' but would imagine when I am zoomed in that the ability to work closer in would be lost as I would be seeing great big pixels. Certainly taking an image currently raw and making it 200ppi and 5800 wide would give me better detail retention.
I had hoped for some suggestions on how to save at lesser colour or grey numbers than 256. Some scanning of large plans can for storage purposes use 17 colours for example. Do I need 256 shades of grey, can I save as 64 shades perhaps ? Certainly LZW is the right direction here, retaining detail but using compression. JPG compression starts to frogspawn the edges below quality 6, so losing detail again. What about png or gif, thats what I had hoped for. Does anyone know how to reduce colour palette numbers to 64 or 32 shades ?
Envirographics

Greyscale image not displaying properly.

This is my first post here, so greetings!
I am working in LabView 11, and all updates are current.
I am trying to display a greyscale image with five shades varying from black to white. (The shade corresponds to a voltage, this is used to control a piece of optical equipment.)
The image is incorrectly displaying only the black shade and the next shade up (on an 8-bit color scale, it is showing only 0 and 63). I am using "draw unflattened pixmap", and I'm passing to it a 2D array of 8-bit numbers (0, 63, 127, 191, 255) and a Greyscal color table that I created. Each value in the 2-D array that is 63 or greater is drawn on the picture as a shade of 63. I've checked to make sure that the input array does have values that range up to 255.
The mysterious part is that I am using the exact same process in another step of my VI, and it is working perfectly. Same color table, same type of array, and I'm doing it several hundred times in a loop. It has never failed even once to produce the correct image.
I've attached my code, and two of the sub-VI's that I call from it. The main code is "Adaptive Optics Experiment". You won't be able to run it, as it requires a software development kit for a company called Andor for some of the sub-VI's, but maybe just by looking you can detect an issue. I've noted on the block diagram where the problem occurs, and where the same process seems to work fine. It's in the large stacked sequence structure; the working part is in frame 1, non-working in frame 2.
I've also attached an image of the final picture that shows only two shades.
Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated!
Attachments:
Adaptive Optics Experiment.vi ‏88 KB
OptimumPhase.vi ‏14 KB
BuildPhaseMap.vi ‏18 KB

Hi mjpur,
Suggestion: Please check this link for better coding in LabVIEW
http://www.ni.com/newsletter/51735/en/
-Coming to problem:you said in sequence:1 it is working and it's not in 2nd sequence and you mentioned the color tables are also same.
-Now the only terminal looks connected is with data terminal which is coming from BuildPhaseMap.vi
-Please check if the data coming from Build Phase Map is proper or not.
Thanks
uday,
Please Mark the solution as accepted if your problem is solved and help author by clicking on kudoes
Certified LabVIEW Associate Developer (CLAD) Using LV13

Converting greyscale images to single spot colour

Hi there.
I’m trying to convert a greyscale image into a single spot colour image. The spot colour is PMS425C, a grey version but as I’m only printing 2 colours I need to convert these images into one spot colour.
Can somebody please assist?
Thanks

Did you see the monotone separated into cmyk? If so, you may not be making the PDF correctly and the spot is being converted. It can still have cmyk channels but they are empty and will not end up as plates. Check your output to PDF settings and make sure in the ink manager that spots are retained. Also, there is more than one way to view in output preview which can be confusing at first.
You should be exporting as PDF X/1a and if your settings are correct, when you view in output preview (separations) in Acrobat, you should see the spot as spot.
Try saving your monotone as .psd too many other formats will not support the monotone. If you view separations in ID, you will be able to see if your file actually supports spot colour.

Why do 16 bit greyscale images look significantly worse than 32 bit?

Howdy,
I am trying to display a greyscale image from a camera. Parts of the program are written by someone else, and the image comes in as a U16 array. I am using IMAQ create and IMAQ arraytoimage. The image displays perfectly if I use the 'float' inputs on the above to sub vi's, but if I use 16 bit or 8 bit, the image quality is terrible. I would like to be able to display the image as 16bit.
If I save the 16 bit image, and reopen it with another program, it's still just as bad. I have also tried converting the array to I16, and U8, but it makes no difference to the image quality.
From what I understand, there should be very little visible difference between 8, 16 and 32 bit greyscale images. Does anyone have any ideas where the problem might be? my next guess is the camera settings, but I'd love it to be something in my code..
Cheers,
Andy

Andy,
Thank you for contacting National Instruments. The key thing to note is that the image data type that LabVIEW uses is a signed interpretation so you need to do some more conversion to get an Unsigned 16-bit array to display properly as an NI-IMAQ image. Refer to the Knowledge Base: 16-bit Images in NI-Vision for more information on how to do this. Thanks and have a great day.
Regards,
Mark T
Applications Engineering | National Instruments

How to save greyscale image as jpeg?

Anyone know how to save a greyscale image as a jpeg in labview?

Hi Jonathan,
If I understand you correctly, you had a greyscaled image, which you applied color to and now want to save this new image. Before I jump into possibly solutions, I have a question for you.
Are you using any IMAQ, Motion, or Vision VIs? If not, try using the Picture Control VIs - specifically, the "Write JPEG File.VI"
If that won't work, please post a small piece of code illustrating the issue.
Thanks!
Janell Rodriguez | Applications Engineer | National Instruments

Export greyscale images

Even though I have have converted a color image to greyscale with great ease and control in Lightroom (that's why I chose LR over Aperture) I cant find a way to EXPORT the image as a greyscale image!
It is really annoying to have to run another programme to be able to make it a greyscale imagefile.
It should be a "Greyscale" choice in the exports menu for color space. Am I missing something or why is this not possible with Lightroom???
Please tell me how I can do it - and if it is not possible - get it into Lightroom 2, please!!!
FinnK

Like printing services and such. Basically every commercial lab will have an issue with greyscale jpegs as the machines cannot read them. Photoshop of course reads them fine and if they go to professionals that do their own CMYK separations or other color management, there is no issue. On the other hand, if you would put them on the web, many web browsers (except safari and firefox 3 with color management turned on) usually get them wrong. I think it would be good to have the option to write greyscale files, but the default should be RGB jpegs even for black and white conversions. In jpeg, you should not get any size advantage, but you will certainly get it in tiff. If you go tiff, then all this about web and labs does not apply anyway.

Curves adjustment layer for greyscale images

If you are editing a greyscale image, the curves adjustment layer is shown in "reverse" style (as you would expect to work with a CMYK image) that that is awkward to work with. If you use Image->Adjustment->Curves, you have the option to invoke the curve display in Light (0-255) or Pigment/Ink % in which the LIGHT does what is appropriate.. It would be nice to have the ability to toggle the Light/Pigment in the Curves Adjustment layer.
I think I remember that, in the good old days of CS/CS2, you could alt-click on the gradient to alter the tonal direction of the curve.

Woops... I just found that the Curves Adjustment layer flyout has a Curves Display Options that allows the setting - and it is sticky. Sorry for the waste bandwidth.

Metadata Status and Greyscale Images

I have a number of 16 bit DNG grayscale images in my collection. In spite of the fact that I update the metadata files, after a short time, the metadata returns to indicating metadata has been changed and the update arrow appears in the Grid even though the file has not been modified. This seems to be isolated to grayscale images.
Any solution available?

Brent,
I have had this problem with more than just greyscale images. The real difficulty is being able to find them since there is no way to filter for those images which have an update arrow on the grid (i.e., needing metadata updated).
If you can isolate them, I have had great success in updating the DNG Preview, which also updates the metadata. This is not selective so only update those that have the icon. Sometimes I have to do them one at a time but it usually gets rid of the icon.
As a side note, if you have "Automatically write to XMP" turned on, the mysterious icons that won't disappear with the Ctrl-S or by left-clicking the icon also have a memory leak which can freeze LR if you are in a session long enough to use up the available memory.
Give the Update DNG Preview a try on one and see what happens.
Jeff

Prepare a greyscale image for an old copy machine

How can I prepare a greyscale image, so that it will look as good as possible on an old copy machine? I have a job that they want to print on a cheaper to use, copy machine, Is it called xerography?
I'm seeing 4 different shades of grey on the machine's output.

You might want to take a look at the blue box at the bottom of this document from Time Capsule and Time Machine expert Pondini
http://web.me.com/pondini/Time_Machine/TCQ5.html

Semi transparent models, using a greyscale image

Hi,
Ive done a few searches on the forum for this. But couldnt
find a specific answer. With regards to textures with alpha
channels, and im not sure if im aiming in the right direction.
I want to have a semi transparent model, of a hair model
actually. I have a grayscale image, which is the alpha channel
information, and i have a number of textures of various hair
colours that work with this greyscale alpha jpg.
I'd like to assign the alpha channel jpg to textureList[1],
to ahieve transparency according to the greyscale image. then apply
the specific hair colour jpg to textureList[2].
Ive played around with blend, blendSource and blendConstant,
and I can get a bit of an effect(streaks in the girls hair), but
not the alpha channel effecting the visibility of the model effect
i'm after.
Is it possible to affect the visibility of a models polys,
through a greyscale texture/jpg being used for alpha channel
information? Is there another way, that ive missed?
Thanks in advance,
Glenno

You could even animate the alpha of the image using imaging
lingo. To set it on a single #fromImageObject texture you will need
to create two images, a 32 bit "host" image and an 8 bit grayscale
image. You can then use setAlpha() to apply the alpha information
to your host image and then create the texture using the 32 bit
imageobject (with the correct texturerenderformat). If either the
host imageobject is not 32 bit or the grayscale image not 8 bit the
setAlpha() operation will fail silently.

Specifying a percentage of black in a greyscale image

Hi, I can't figure this out even though it seems like a fairly simple task to want to achieve.
I have a greyscale image and I want to create a colour fill layer that has a particular percentage of black in it (let's say 72%)
If I type C0 M0 Y0 K72 in the solid colour dialog box, when I hover over the image with my eyedropper tool the info palette tells me there is 67% ink down. If I hit okay and go back into the adjustment layer, the fill colour has been converted to C60 M51 Y47 K17. I thought trying to choose a HSB value of H0 S0 B72 might work but the same kind of conversion still occurs.
I've tried changing my document colour space from dot gain 20% to something else but I still can't choose a K value without it converting it to something else. I created a custom dot gain profile with no curve and it still converts it.
Any ideas?
I know I could setup a CMYK profile and specify a black value easily but I want my file to be greyscale so I can assign it various colours in Illustrator. I also want to create grey gradients in the file rather than just a flat fill colour, I'm just using a flat colour in this example because it's easier to explain.
Cheers.

To reproduce the problem, all you need to do is:
Create a new file where the colour mode is greyscale and the colour profile is generic grey profile.
Go to fill under the edit menu, under contents choose "colour...". Enter C 0%, Y 0%, M 0%, K 72%. Hit OK.
Checking the colour that has been put down, the info palette will tell you that there is 65%K ink down, not 72% like I want it to be.
So it does it even if it's not an adjustment layer.
Cheers, Darren

Working with greyscale images in InDesign

I am designing a photobook in InDesign with several B&W images in it. InDesign in currently in PhoPhoto RGB working space. I am having the book printed by LuLu, and they require that any monochrome images in the PDF be in greyscale with a gamma between 2.2 and 2.4.
So I opened all the image files in Photoshop and converted them to "grey gamma 2.2", and then saved as JPGs and made sure to check the "embed grey gamma 2.2 profile" box.
However, when I place those images in InDesign, they look completely different! I went to "Color Settings" and then saw that InDesign doesn't have a greyscale working space. Now I understand why they look so different, but my question is - when I export the PDF from InDesign, will the images look like they did in Photoshop or will they have the "washed out" appearance they have in InDesign?
What's the best way to do this?

>I just want to make sure I'm getting all of this. I did also notice that LuLu recommends not converting from RGB to CMYK or vice versa. Since I shoot all of my images RAW and import them into Lightroom, which is in ProPhoto RGB, then I guess that means all of my color images should be exported from Photoshop in ProPhoto RGB and my working profile in ID should also be ProPhoto RGB. Since the working space and profiles are the same in each application, the images should look the same in both. Correct?
That's right, but again if you want to see the a preview of ProPhotoRGB converted to CMYK, you'll need to set your Proof Setup to a CMYK space. In Photoshop I edit color in RGB with Proof Colors turned on and the Proof Setup set to the destination CMYK space.
>You were suggesting converting them to CMYK in Photoshop
No! I was suggesting that you use a CMYK profile as your grayscale profile, which Photoshop allows. So, instead of Edit>Convert to Profile>Greyscale Gamma 2.2; you could set your Gray Working space to US Sheetfed via Color Settings>More Options>Gray>Load..., and then simply convert the RGB image to Grayscale via Mode>Grayscale. In this case your grayscale is profiled as if it were on the black plate of a CMYK file, so if you also use US Sheetfed in ID you'll get a similar preview.
Using a CMYK profile for grayscale in PS is a nice trick, but it isn't going to make or break the jobthere will always be variation depending on how much ink density the press operator is running. If this is the first job you are sending Lulu I would follow their instructions and use 2.2 as the grayscale space, then if there's an issue you can honestly say you followed their instructions.

Greyscale image, can't adjust contrast/levels.

A very recent problem - I have some greyscale scanned images - nothing fancy, batch-scanned via document feeder at 600 dpi - and my problem is this: I try to adjust contrast or levels, I see the effect I want in the image as I do so, but when I dismiss the contrast/levels dialogue, the change doesn't 'stick'.
I can delete parts of an image, paint-bucket for example works fine, I can save. I expect it's something obvious :(
OS X 10.3.9, Photoshop CS2. Memory is 1.25Gb (yes, I'm a lightweight ;) )

No. What I'm saying is they are
i like
bitmap mode, in that scanned grayscale images of line or halftone pics tend to have very little gray information. It's made mostly of black or white pixels. So Level or Curves adjustments have little effect. In addition, you will get a FALSE preview on any Level/Curves adjustments on these types of images when viewed at less than 100%. Just as you describe.
Same thing would happen if you took a detailed 1-bit file and converted to grayscale. The Levels/Curves adjustments would be available. A preview at less than 100% might show that Levels are lightening or darkening. But when you commit the command, the adjustment seems to disappear! That is because you only have 0 or 255 pixels, you can't lighten white and you can't darken black and there are no pixels in-between to affect.

Greyscale images

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