Hdcam workflow

Hi all,
I'll have a project comes in as hdcam source but the final is sd dvd so I am thinking of this workflow:
1- capture as proRES hd - edit - export to qt as is & compress in sd- author in dvdsp. back up the project in the hard drive with that proRES hd qt, so i don't have to pump back to hdcam deck.
2- same as option 1 but consolidate the project & recapture as full hd & pump to hdcam for back up.
3- capture as full hd. but don't know if my sonic sata enclosures can handle it. I have 1 promax 5bay sata enclosure & 1 sonic 5bay enlosure. thinking raid them together with 1Tgb then i'd have 10Tgb there.
please help.
thanks
JP
ps: with option 1 can i edit proRES HD in new macbook pro or have to be mac pro quad? I have both. thinking of using g5 to capture & edit on laptop too.
Message was edited by: JPNG
Message was edited by: JPNG

As long as you have the proper equipment (HD capture card, high speed drives, HD broadcast monitor) and the skills needed to online, then you should be fine. If not...then you are just shooting yourself in the foot. This isn't a MONEY GROWS ON TREES thing. If you think money grows on trees here in CA, you got another thing comin! Just figure that it'll be cheaper to hire someone with the proper equipment to work on this for a couple days, rather than go out and buy, or rent, the equipment needed to do this...possibly doing something wrong...and ending up hiring someone anyway to fix it.
You won't believe how often I or someone else is hired to come fix something that was done incorrectly.
This isn't to say that you don't have the experience. There is no way of knowing this from the short postings you have made. But unfamiliarity with the online process indicates a lack of knowledge in this area, and we just want to give you fair warning.
Shane

Similar Messages

HDCAM Workflow Questions

Hello Everyone,
Here is my situation. My client shot HDCAM footage (4 sony F900 cameras - TC Jamm sync) in 24p (not sure if is Advanced or not) and also shot an interview (2 Sony F900 cameras - TC Jamm sync) in HDCAM 30 FPS using green screen.
We are only shooting in HDCAM for the purpose of future compatibility. We will ultimatly master to DVCAM.
I am considering buying a Decklink HD Pro card to get the footage into my system. I understand I can capture the 30FPS green screen footage in uncompressed SD (in order to retain luminance for keying, I'll convert it to DVCAM after compositing).
HERE IS WHERE I GET STUCK. How do get the 24FPS footage to DVCAM? Will the decklink card convert 24 to 30FPS in realtime? Will I need to capture it in 24 and then convert it to 30? Unfortuntaly I do not understand this process, especially since I will be mixing frame rates.
Any help would be greatly appreciated. Any holes in my thinking would also be helpful.
Allan Spiers

Thanks Kyle,
You confirmed my hunch. Late yesterday, I spoke with the pre-sales guy at Black Magic Designs. He basically told me the same thing. He said I could do the pulldown usng the deck, using his Decklink card or using Nattress' standards converson software. My choice.
One more question. Say in the future we need to go back to the original HDCAM tapes and recapture. Will this be a problem with it having been in 24p? or is this were Cimema Tools comes into play and I create a flex file to reference the 24p?
Thanks.
allan

FCP Workflow for export to HDCAM SR

I have been asked to deliver a FCP job on HDCAM-SR.
The material will be delivered to me as Tiff / Targa sequences
I have not used HDCAM-SR before so I am not sure what would be the best sequence codec to use.
As I understand it, SR a 4:4:4 format, so Uncompressed 10bit 422 is out of the question.
I am using a Kona 3 on a 3Ghz Quad, but can't see anything suitable in the codec list. Is there another codec I need to get?

There are any number of codecs you can use. The Deck doesn't care what you use...it just receives the signal from FCP via the Kona. You can use HDV, DVCPRO HD, uncompressed, ProRes, XDCAM...anything. THe kona and the deck are codec independant. And it can be either 444 or 422. What you need to send it all depends on what the delivery requirements are.
So what you need to figure out is what best works with what you are receiving.
The material will be delivered to me as Tiff / Targa sequences
Test out ProRes, uncompressed 10-bit...see what works best.
There seems to be very little info out there about HDCAM-SR. Is it a YUV or RGB format?
No clue...beyond my scope of knowledge. I edit DVCPRO HD primarily, and output to HDCAM (not SR). And I have the tech head engineers handle that. I am the creative cutter.
Shane

Unable to capture HD 1080 video from HDCAM deck using Decklink HD

I have an original decklink HD capture card with SDI I/O. I have a rented Sony HDCAM F500 deck for the weekend. I can not get FCP to digitize even a frame. All my QT, FCP, OSX and Decklink software is up to date and compatible with one another acording to Decklink's website.
The capture tool shows no video input. I am conecting via SDI from the HD output of the deck to the SDI input on the card, the capture settings are set to the HD format I need to work in, 23.98 PsF. I get the error mesage when I select the setting I want: Unable to locate the capture device Blackmagic HDTV 1080. Your system config may have changed or your deck/camera may be disconnected or turned off.
The system will work in SD using the downconvert output of the deck, but this does me no good on this job. I hope someone has experience with this problem and can help because I am out of ideas!

sorry mate, if I was in the office I would try to help troubleshoot this thing, but here at home its a bit pointless.
other than suggesting you check that you really do have an Declink HD card an not the Declink SD card, or th epossiblity the card may be faulty, the best I can offer is to point you to the Decklink forum at the Cow.
http://forums.creativecow.net/cgi-bin/newviewposts.cgi?forumid=124
have you tried to capture any other HD flavour with this card? how about capturing via the downcoverted SD and using the card to upconvert to HD? (this is not a suggested workflow, just trying to ascertain whether the card is working in HD at all)

Workflow sd letterbox to 16:9 hd through iohd?

Hi. Let me preface this with saying I've waited three years to be able to do the following workflow to get a hardware upres of my feature film affordably as using a teranex etc. was out of reach for me and I didn't want to throw my money away on editing houses when I preferred to acquire equipment and do this on my own...first I lucked out with getting an iohd on ebay, and then someone at b&h kindly told me about the ninja that had been invented and that I signed up and patiently waited for production on...this week I got a secondhand hdv recorder so now I'm ready to go. I was told along the way that I couldn't do this without a lot of money or a software alternative upres that wasn't acceptable for me...and I came up with this workflow but I have one last bug I'm wondering if any of you out there can help me with!
The original film was shot on a dvx100 in 4:3 and letterboxed. The file that I edited, and later could see output through my iohd to hd image on my flat screen as one of my monitors...I now plan to capture on the ninja as a pro res 422 hq file that I'll then throw back on fcp for preparation for hd files, one of which I'll output to an hvr-m15au as hdv1080i or 720p!
I have prepared various files and realized the ninja recognized the files uncompressed at 8 and 10 bit and not in rgb (?) when output from the iohd through hdmi...so I have ready uncompressed letterbox and uncompressed anamorphic set-up for digibeta or just 720x480 rather than 720x486...but I've decided on choosing the file I had ready for digibeta which seems to match the specs closer for hd.
The aja output is in 1080i 29.97 (for some reason the ninja only recognizes the signal as 59.97) and/or 720p 59.97.
But HERE'S MY QUESTION!
I get, of course a full screen capture of my anamorphic file that can then be recognized on the digital tv as 16:9 if I choose a "full" setting...is this the best solution considering the original source if I want to have at the end a full 16:9 picture onscreen...or is there a way to do all this and have a true 16:9 and at what point in the workflow would I do this "cropping" and if I do that am I back to square one with deterioration of image?????? I do have broadcast opportunities down the road with a distributor who is still pitching my film in its sd format and as well...I'd like to also fiddle around with blu-ray authoring on my own once I capture these files.
I'm also a little perplexed as to why I'm not seeing the stretched files on the ninja monitor out of the iohd when I choose the stretch options in the iohd which would solve the problem but that's not what's happening.
Thank you for your input or multiple suggestions on this...and for the naysayers out there who have said "why bother upresing at all"...you'd have to see the finished film output as hd on a monitor to know that answer and to recognize the reality that people will choose download or buying hd product or blu-ray, not to mention the broadcasters who want deliverables for some platforms on hdcam or other hd formats...and love of full screen ability of picture...the iohd is a wonderful tool that, before I owned it, I didn't think I could ever afford to have an upres of my film that would be acceptable...so now the green pasture is in sight and I'd appreciate any last suggestions on this last question as to the best workflow to get the finished picture to open 16:9 without it being anamorphic or if this is not a wise solution...if indeed there's such a thing as hd anamorphic as acceptable for broadcast which I think isn't the case (though I'm aware worse comes to worse the hd letterbox is probably ok but I still want to know how to do this).
Thank you!!!!!!!!!! Apple boards has helped me through the technical crazies and appreciate all input I get which has helped me learn and do things I never thought I could do or that others have said I can't do that I've accomplished with this simple footage...in any case HELP once I get through all of this I'll be moving completely away from SD and will never deal with this stuff again...(except of course with my other "legacy footage" arghhhh).

OK I did one pass and recorded a file on the ninja that was uncompressed anamorphic wide...but apparently I guess I was doing something wrong with my iohd before because going back...I was able to take the uncompressed 4:3 letterbox and this time the iohd indeed output the file as a zoom wide which now appears like it was a little stretched vertically but not very noticeable but then I decided maybe it would look better using the anamorphic digibeta file because of the lines being 720x486 out and indeed I was able to do this as a full 16:9 output this time with it set to down anamorphic up zoom letterbox on the iohd and it appears this did the trick as it's exact matching proportions I see on my ntsc monitor...
Anyway, am I doing this right? It appears now I've succeeded in making a full 16:9 file as a pro res 422 hq 1080i file from a 720x486 uncompressed 10 bit anamorphic fcp file that was created from what started as a letterbox 4:3 ntsc dvcam rgb file that was dropped into an anamorphic timeline.
I'll report how it looks once it's back in fcp on my large screen tv and after I output it to the hdv recorder.

720p24 to 1080i60 - best workflow?

Hello all - long time no type...
I have a long-form program that has been edited in DVCPRO HD 720p24 (23.98). I am getting ready to master this thing to D5. I have access to a Blackmagic Multibridge Eclipse, as well as a Decklink Extreme HD, and an Io HD. The deck is the Panasonic AJ-HD3700A.
I have heard that the most common standard for broadcast HD is 1080i60 HDCAM. My question is whether it's better to master in the program's native format at 720p24, or to try and upconvert to 1080i60 as I output. Some more specific questions:
If outputting to 720p24, is it better to use 24pN?
If upconverting at output, my thought is that the multibridge eclipse will be the most versatile and robust device for this, but how does the pulldown insertion get handled in this kind of workflow?
If I output to 720p24 and we want a 1080i60 dub made later, is this the kind of thing that can be done simply at a dub house without having to re-output from FCP?
If I master to Panasonic D5, will I still need a dub made if a station needs HDCAM?
Any expertise would be appreciated. Thanks.

You have the I/O HD...simply cross convert 720p to 1080i when you output. That device can do that...I believe.
If outputting to 720p24, is it better to use 24pN?
Doesn't matter. What are your SEQUENCE settings. That is what you will be outputting. If your sequence settings are 23.98, then that is what you will be outputting.
If upconverting at output, my thought is that the multibridge eclipse will be the most versatile and robust device for this, but how does the pulldown insertion get handled in this kind of workflow?
Sorry, the Eclipse does not cross convert 720p to 1080i...not even the Eclipse. This is why I stick with AJA Konas. I almost bought the Multibridge Pro until I learned this fact.
If I output to 720p24 and we want a 1080i60 dub made later, is this the kind of thing that can be done simply at a dub house without having to re-output from FCP?
Yes, but why do that? Just cross convert as you output. One tape...done. But if you do this, bear in mind that you need to find a place that has a Terranex to do this cross convert.
If I master to Panasonic D5, will I still need a dub made if a station needs HDCAM?
Of course. If you hand them a tape they can't air they will smack you on the head with the tape. You must deliver what the network requires.
Are you in the LA area? Contact Terry Curren at Alpha Dog in Burbank. Their "digital service station" is designed to take a file and output it to tape. And they have the Kona 3 that can do the cross convert....and handle the pulldown.
Shane

HDCam 1080i to ???? for PC and still look good compressed?

Client has asked for 1280x720 compressed in a codec that a PC can read via After Effects. Eventually they want to go to Flash. Their source is HDCam 1080i.
I've captured via FCP 6/AJA Kona LHe in Apple 10bit 4:2:2 Uncompressed, then let Compressor 3.0.1 turn it into Animation codec and H.264 in order to give them a file size they can work with. The H.264 and the Animation file look like the field order is messed up. But Compressor's frame control is set to Automatic and when it isn't it wants to deinterlace and take 2 hours or more to render a 5 second clip. I've got almost twenty minutes of material to process so that isn't a real world workflow.
They've come to me as a service bureau to give them a file they can work with. I just can't figure out what kind of file would work. I'm wondering if there is something wrong with the compression I've used or is this just state of the art for Compressor?
Look at some screen grabs of the original and the resultant H.264 (the animation codec has the same jaggy/zipper/comb effect on the edges. Look at the edge of the car and their clothes, etc.)
http://www.countdownvideoproductions.com/jaggies.html
What's the best way to get from the Apple Codec into a PC they can use and have the file not be so large, yet look good (unlike Compressor's output to H.264 and Animation)?
Graeme where are you?

Cinephile8 wrote:
... I'm licensing images from a company that offers two sizes: 200 and 800 KB. ...
kB doesn'r measure the 'size' of a picture in terms of 'looking good', if you don't know resolution, bit-depth, codec etc.
a jpg, showing plain blue rectangle of 3000x5000 pixel with <20kB could look much better than a 16bit.tiff of 480x360 pixel...........
Brad told you about res of HDef video.
if you don't plan to add massive Ken Burns Effects, this res is enough.
a less compressed pic (same res, but more kBs) will finally deliver better quality, forinstance less probs with 'banding'.
I would purchase the same picture in BOTH 'sizes' and make a test, including final delivery (YouTube, DVD, web, Vimeo, projection, whatever) .... and judge with your own eyes, what fullfills YOUR criteria of 'quality'.

HDV/ sony ZIU workflow for editing & mastering

I'm new to this forum so first off thanks for having me.
I'm trying to develope a successful workflow that will carry this studio throught the upcoming year of producion.
We wil be shooting HDV w/ the Z1U and editing in FCP 5.0...
We need to edit webisodes weekely as well as log and master the HDV footage for stock footage, broadcast use and other future applications.
Here is my initial game plan:
I was planning to work in SD by capturing the footage with the downconvert option (HDV-DV) strait off the camera. I'm doing this to keep my logging speed and disc space low. Also, I'm assuming that for exporting QTs for the web the quality will still look great.
Then later for my HDV masters I will open a new project in FCP, compile all my clips and re-capture the footage in HDV.
At this point I would be running all my FCP setups for native HD, 1080i60, etc. Then, Print to Video from my FCP project back to the Sony Z1U camera.
Does this make sense to other out there, considering we can't afford and HDcam deck or AJA Kona at this juncture?
Has anyone had issues re-capturing footage in HDV and/or printing back to tape?
Thanks and Aloha,
BGP Editor
G5 Mac OS X (10.3.9) AJA Io, FCP 5.0, Sony Z1U

Welcome!
I can't comment on you workflow,
however since you are looking towards the future, I would strongly recommend that you upgrade your OS X to 10.4.8, and purchase the FInal Cut Studio 5.1 crossgrade for $50.00 (before offer expires sometime in Dec I believe).
http://www.apple.com/universal/crossgrade/
FInal Cut Pro 5 was last updated to 5.0.4, there will be no more updates.
G5 1.8 DP (PCI-X) Mac OS X (10.4.8) ATI X800 XT, 4GB RAM, 20" & 23" ACDs, M-Audio Revolution 5.1, Fostex D15 DAT

24P Workflow

We got a new HD system last year with two Panasonic HPX500P cams. We do Corporate Video so we generally stick to 30/60i settings but I wanted to play around with the Cine settings on the camera. I've been digging through the menus and output some 24P footage but everytime I bring it into FCP, even in a sequence that is set for 24fps it still looks bad to me. I know it's the pulldown but I don't understand why FCP isn't compensating for that. I've seen other posts that say to bring the footage into Cinema Tools to correct the pulldown and get it to 30fps but that just seems odd to me. Shouldn't you be able to edit it raw in FCP and then change the settings when you do final output, depending on how you want it to be output?
I would love to hear experiences/workflow from someone that has shot 24p both for final output to TV and for Film if possible. Thanks!

I had just assumed that when you were in FCP and had the sequence set to 23.98 that it would be smooth on my monitor. Why wouldn't it be?
Well, did you SHOOT 23.98? Look at the frame rate of the footage. Is it 29.97 or 23.98? If it is 29.97, and you put it into a 23.98 sequence...then no, it won't look good at all! FCP doesn't remove pulldown properly in the timeline. Instead of 2:3:3:2 or 2:3:2:3, it does 2:2:2:4. BAD. So no, just changing the frame rate doesn't work. That only works well with Avid Media Composer 4.0.
So, why shoot in 24p at all?
To get the film look. You can shoot 24p and have the frame rate still be 29.97...as I said. People who shoot 23.98 either master to 23.98 (HDCAM SR, HDCAM, D5 formats support this)...or output to DVD directly, and that supports this, or print to film. Or upload to the web only...that supports 23.98. OR, because 23.98 takes up a lot less space than 29.97. And if you have a decent HD capture card, it will add the proper pulldown when you output. So you can shoot and edit 23.98, but deliver 29.97. SD tape, and a lot of broadcasters and corporate delivery requirements are still 29.97.
Why have the option on the camera?
Because people want the film look, and don't like the VIDEO look. Mainly people shooting short or feature films...and TV shows and some documentaries. Before 24P people bought PAL versions of cameras that shot 25fps, then adjusted the speed when they were done to 24fps.
I had assumed that was part of getting a more Cinematic look to the footage.
EXACTLY.
But if it just ends up as 29.97 why do it at all?
Because some of us don't like the smooth video "soap opera" look of 29.97. And as I stated, you can shoot 24p at 29.97 and edit 29.97 just fine.
I shot in every mode on that camera and did comparison. It won't do 1080p/24p, though, just 1080i/24p.
1080i 24p is the way to get 24p in a 29.97 frame rate. it is just called 1080p24 by some people.
Shane

HDcam to MPEG-2

Hello!
I'm trying to undestand how can I convert a tape HDcam to MPEG-2 file. I have some telenovelas recorded into this tape and I need to transform this tape into a single MPEG-2 file. But I really don't understand how I can do it.
Ok, I know that I need a HDcam player, but what is more appropriate? After buy the player it's just plug-in the HDSDI into computer and than the computer will reconize the tape?
My file needs this specifications:
- 1920x1080p/i
- 80Mbit/s
- Any FPS
- Any audio channel
I need to use compressor?
I heard about one divece, I don't know what it's, this Blackmagic. I'm gonna buy one Mac to do this job and work with FCP. What I need to do? Buy the player, connet into Mac? And than just use FCP to transform in this specifications?
Sorry, but I'm new in this stuff.
Thanks

If your question is: Once the hardware is properly installed on your system, FCP is configured to utilize the hardware, the material is properly ingested, and the media is stored on drives/arrays that will properly support the date rate required, does FCP edit in the same way? The answer is yes.
Making sure your system is properly equipped with the correct hardware, the hardware is properly enabled, FCP is configured to access the hardware, and your media storage system is capable of supporting the media you are ingesting is beyond what a forum post can answer. A lot depends on your individual requirements, and the workflow you want to use - questions like: do you want to capture source timecode from your source tapes? How many channels of audio are you ingesting? Do you have sufficient audio and video monitoring capabilities? etc.
That is why you need to have a systems integrator or an experienced tech assess what you want to do, what you already own, and configure the system accordingly.
MtD

FCP HDSR Online Workflow

I'm editing a 35mm (2 Perf) feature in FCP using a DVCam offline standard workflow. We will eventually online to HDSR which will then be used to conform the film for film-out.
My question...
It is very expensive to have the post place to the HDSR online, and all they are really doing is capturing the HDSR tapes to the FCP sequence. My producer owns a AJA ioHD box and as u can see, I have a powerful computer.
Could we just rent the HDSR deck, and use the AJA box to online it ourselves. I've heard something that we need an internal RAID or something, and that the AJA box might not be able to handle the 4:4:4 color.
Any thoughts would be appreciated. Cheers

1. Yes they are. Does that affect anything in this potential process?
Wait, the DVCAM are 29.97 and the HDCAM tapes are 23.98? Whoa... well, I'll stop you here and say hire someone. Your entire offline cut and all of your footage is in a completely different timebase than the masters. This affects EVERYTHING in the process. Now you have to spit out EDLs and convert the EDLs and then make sure that the captured footage didn't slip any frames forward or back. There's a LOT that needs to be done to ensure that you capture the right footage. This isn't something a beginner should tackle. Pay someone, do it right.
2. Is the AJA Kona 3 a card? I assume 4:4:4 is required?
Yes, AJA Kona 3. And I mentioned 4:4:4 because YOU mentioned 4:4:4. Now, are you going to master on HDCAM? Or HDCAM SR? Well, since your footage is already on HDCAM, the damage is done. HDCAM is 3:1:1...yes...you read right. 3:1:1. So going 4:4:4 is pointless. Best to work 4:2:2 (normal) and then just output back to HDCAM. Except you are going to FILM OUT, right?
Hire someone.
Shane

24 fps Film Workflow in FCP

Hello all,
I'm planning out a film workflow for a feature-length motion picture I plan to edit with my Final Cut Pro setup.
The equipment is as follow:
Mac Pro Quad 2.66 GHz
5 GBs RAM
6 TB Cal Digit RAID
Kona LHe capture card
The stock will originate on 35mm and there is a chance that this will go back to film to have the negative reconformed (pending purchase by a studio and/or distributor). However, the initial plan is to master to HDCAM SR and do a Digital Intermediate.
Ideally, I'd like to stay in 24p (23.98) for offline.
One plan for offline includes getting all dailies transferred via telecine at one-light to DVCAM, then digitize and doing the reverse telecine in Cinema Tools, then correcting for the timecode variance, then doing offline in SD in a 23.98 project.
Would it time-saving (I know not cost-effective) to get all the dailies telecined at one-light to DVCPRO HD tapes at 24p, then digitizing into the system at 24p, and eliminating the whole "reverse telecine" process.
Is this the only way to ensure that offline and online media originates on 24p and stays that way? I want to stay away from conversion as much as possible.
Thanks in advance!
Mac Pro Quad 2.66 GHz / 5.0 Gigs RAM / GeForce 7300 GT / 2.0 TBs internal SATA

Of course Keycodes...I planned on this from the beginning. However, for your recommended method, I don't see why we'd have to have our 1-light transfers to HDCAM SR 4:4:4...wouldn't it make more sense to transfer directly to DVCPRO HD tapes, dig them into the FCP station (we'll rent a deck and tri-sync) and cut, then pull our selects from keycodes for an HDCAM SR 4:4:4 master for the final format.
Ok, you really don't need to transfer as 1-Light, have the colorist make a full color correction. The only reason why I mentioned 1-Light was for reducing the time in the transfer suite. You still be have to do Tape-to-Tape Color Correction and they can do some pretty amazing stuff that you won't be able to do in the dailies and vice-versa (Go with a DaVinci System or EQ or Pablo).
The only reason why I don't recomend the whole transfer to DVCPro and the re-transfer to HDCam SR is because you can get the DVCPro quality from the 4:4:4 Master (Just digitize straight from the HDCam SR master with a DVCPro codec). You save the 2nd Re-Transfer time, the Dubs to DVCPro, the DVCPro Tapes and you same TIME. Remeber that they still have to re-clean the film, spend time loading to the telecine, and problems that are going to arise due to a re-transfer like possible scratches, lab dirt, chemical spots, film tears, etc. And these DO happen).
*Also, if you're also editing your way, and matching back to you keykode for selects, you won't be able to do it in Final Cut. I checked today and this option is only available for Avids. *
Since it's a 1-light transfer, is it really taking advantage of the HDCAM SR's 4:4:4 color space bandwidth? Why not go directly to DVCPRO HD if it's only going to be 1-light...
Again, don't do a one light. If you can afford it have the colorist do their best. Yes, if you are going 4:4:4 might as well go all the way. Regarding the DVCPro, see above.
I'm not sure our budget will allow for an HDCAM SR 4:4:4 transfer of our dailies. Is there typically a price difference between transfering on different HD tapes formats? HDCAM SR seems like it'd be more expensive than DVCPRO HD. If there is no price difference than I can see your point...but how good would it look at only 1-light (albeit w/ video color-correction).
HDCam SR 4:4:4 is expensive. Next best thing would be HDCam SR 4:2:2, followed by HDCam and finally DVCPro HD. Lately, DVCPro and HDCam are going about the same rate for transfers. If you have a good Post Supervisor he/she can probably sweet talk the post house for a HDCam SR deal. DVCPro HD has a compression of about 15:1, HDCam is 7:1, HDcam SR is 3:1 and SR 4:4:4 is 1:1. (It varies from source to source, these are only approximates) If you're doing a Film-Out, the higher quality, the better the Film-Out.
Oh, and one more thing... a friend of mine, after choosing his selects from the final format of his feature, had the HDCAM select reel made with a 3-light transfer, BUT, also had a downconvert made with Keycode and Timecode burn-in to help with the reconform...if the keycode stuff failed to match...it seems to help him a lot. Any merit to this method?
This is how you re-conform your offline. The whole DVCam dub thing is a given, is part of the method. You have DVcam dubs made (with keykode and timecode burns), you digitize this new material with its respective list and then you match the keykode from the dailies, to the keykode from the selects and bring in your new timecode from the new "selects" masters so that your sequence/EDL (and therefore online) will have matching timecode (the timecode from the original dailies will be useless). (*This system is only available on AVID as far as I know*). Again, this is where keeping track of keykode is super important and you will encounter problems.
In my humble opinion, most of this stuff is for the Post Supervisor to figure out with the Editor and the Post-House. I have talked to post supers that have gone this method and you would not believe how confident they were the 1st week and totally lost it after the 4th week. I have seen shows that have gone through 4 or 5 assistant editors and had to hire a 2nd editor to help with the problems that came up. I have worked on this kind of shows many times and that's why I HIGHLY discourage it.
If you (or someone else) wants to know more, feel free to contact me and I can go into details and help you figure out a workflow that will save you TIME and a lot of headaches and a tiny bit of money. My email is in my profile and feel free to contact me, I won't bite! At first...

Workflow Question: 24p (Varicam) Masters, 29.97 down converts for offline

I know in part this question has been raised here before, and I know the Cinema Tools method for getting back to 24p... but I would like to discuss briefly the pending workflow on a project I am about to begin with someone who has tackled this before.
I am cutting a feature, shot on Varicam at 24p. The film has already been rough cut in FCP and I am inheriting the project to re-work the rough cut and "on-line" finish the film. The initial editor did not reverse telecine the clips before cutting, so all the clips and the timeline are in 29.97. I know I could finish the off-line using the DV footage, then reverse telecine the EDL to on-line back to the 24p HD masters, but there are a few other issues.
First, there is over 19 hours of original scenes that currently make up a 2 hr rough cut. This cut needs a pretty extensive re-edit before it's ready for the sound designer to step in, maybe 2-4 weeks of work. The FCP project has not been broken down by scenes, just master clips for each reel (yikes!). I am not confident in the audio that is on these DV tapes and I would prefer to work with the original HD source to finish the job, as the audio editing will fall mostly to me to accomplish. This project will also need extensive color timing as well. From a general workflow standpoint, I feel that if I had all the HD loaded, and re-organized by scene that I could work more efficiently to finish all the aspect of this film.
So the nuts and bolts of my question is this. Can I convert both the timeline AND the already logged master clips to 24p so that I can load in the HD as whole reel clips as they currently are logged and refer back to the timeline? I want to work from the existing timeline, but also have ALL the footage loaded in as HD 24p so I can sub clip by scene and rework the cut.
Thanks in advance.

HD isn't as simple as SD...not by a long shot. With SD, we captured offline at 29.97, and then onlined at 29.97. The biggest thing to worry about was that our shoot masters were 29.97 NDF but stock footage was 29.97DF, and that tended to mess up EDLs for the online.
But then comes HD. 720p...1080i...1080p. 23.98, 24, 29.97, 59.94. So many options...things got really complex. Now with HD you really need to know what your deliverable is...even before you shoot. Because everything is geared toward getting that final master. You CAN proceed without knowing that, but then getting the proper master will require more hoop jumping. So, at this point, you need to figure out what you want to deliver and work towards that. 1080 23.98psf HDCAM? 720p 59.94 D5? 1080i 29.97 HDCAM? You have to figure this out.
Editing 24p footage from the Varicam (which translates to 23.98) at 29.97 DV was a poor choice. DVCPRO HD 720p24 isn't even twice the file size of DV. DV is 3.6MB/s, and DVCPRO HD 720p24 is 5.4MB/s...so editing native would have been the wise choice. But that is moot. Moving on.
When I edited a 16mm film...shot on 16mm, telecined to HDCAM at 23.98...I captured DV downconverts that ran at 29.97. I asked the post facility doing the online if I should do it at 29.97, or should I reverse telecine to 23.98...they said stick with 29.97, so I did. Then we changed post facilities and they said I really should have been editing at 23.98...because I have now made the online rather tricky. But this is what they had me do. Export an EDL of the 29.97 timeline. Use Cinema Tools to convert that from a 30fps EDL to a 24fps EDL. Then give them this and the final project. They were able to rebuild the cut, with some issues where I had speed changes, but they did it.
So what you need to do now, is find the place that will be doing the online, and get someone there to get this thing where it needs to be. It isn't as simple as recapturing at 29.97 or 59.94. The footage was shot at 59.94, but with flags set to make it 23.98 when captured. If you had a Kona or Decklink capture card, you could capture it at 59.94, but that format won't match up with the 29.97 EDL...different time base. And you cannot capture 59.94 as 29.97...not unless the footag was flagged in the camera as 720p30.
This is a very complex situation and I have barely scratched the surface. THis is why you need help from an HD expert, preferrably someone from the post facility where you will be doing the online.
Shane

Trying to Understand Tapeless Workflow

I know a lot of editors talk about tapeless workflows and it seems that most of the tapeless workflows involve a camcorder or P2 card reader to get footage into your hard drive but I'm curious... what if an editor doesn't shoot footage or own a camera - what if they just want to be a freelance editor. How would they setup a tapeless workflow? Would the person giving them the work have to give them the camera to capture footage? Or would they have to give them the P2 card? or is there another type of workflow? Any insight on this is greatly appreciated. Thank you

Would the editor need to provide the Hard Drive for the camera person to back up everything on?
Nope. Camera person responsibility. Just like tape stock is their responsibility.
Also if an editor edits with tapeless material - would there be a reason to have a tape deck?
That's the big advantage...you don't. Only if you need to output to tape would you need one. But, if you aren't handed tape, why have a deck? Although many people archive to LTO or DLT data tape. VERY secure. used by banks.
Also what output is typical when you have a tapeless workflow?
Depends on your client. I work in broadcast TV, so it is HDCAM, HDCAM SR, Digibeta...or data file delivery. Some clients want BluRay, others just a web video. There is no such thing as TYPICAL, as there are literally DOZENS of delivery options for video. All based on what the clients wants and how they intend to view it.
Shane

Kona DVCPro HD to HDCAM Cross-Convert Question for Shane Ross

Hi Shane (Or anyone else whose done this)... Shane posted the comment below at Creative Cow Oct'06:
Quoting Shane: "...because with FCP I can capture DVCPRO HD 720p 23.98 and edit at full resolution. When I lock picture I can, with the use of a Kona 3, cross convert to 1080p 23.98 via the hardware and output to HDCAM."
GREAT! I want to mimic this workflow!!! I have a completed project that was edited as above in FCP (based on your creative cow video tutorial). I shot with the HVX200.
1. Are you happy with the cross-converted 960X720 DVCPro HD footage to 1080p 23.98 quality? I'm assuming this is 1920X1080...
1b. Why not 1280X720? The original .mxf. Seems like that would provide better resolution . What am i missing?
2. Any Artifacting/aliasing? How did titles and transitions hold up? Did the reds bleed?
3. Are there any new advances that you've come across that i should look into as well?
4. And, can you be more specific about how you did question # 1. What codec; Does it come with the card or is it in FCP? What VTR do you suggest?
5. Can i do the above with a BlackMagic card? Which one?
6. What am i forgetting to ask?
Big fan, your posts have saved me hours of headaches over the last 5 months. Cheers...
Hayden
Mac Pro 2.66, 2GB ram, 250GB system, 1TB internal raid, ATI x1900xt and NVidia 7300GT Mac OS X (10.4.8)
Mac Pro 2.66, 2GB ram, 250GB system, 1TB internal raid, ATI x1900xt and NVidia 7300GT Mac OS X (10.4.8)

1. Are you happy with the cross-converted 960X720 DVCPro HD footage to 1080p 23.98 quality? I'm assuming this is 1920X1080...
Absolutely. It looks great. But, this is HDCAM, so it is anamorphic HD...1440x1080. Since DVCPRO HD is anamorphic as well...it all works out.
1b. Why not 1280X720? The original .mxf. Seems like that would provide better resolution . What am i missing?
The network delivery specs require a 1080p 23.98 master on HDCAM or D5. They chose that because you can convert that into anything.
2. Any Artifacting/aliasing? How did titles and transitions hold up? Did the reds bleed?
No artifacting or aliasing whatsoever. Titles and transitions all held up. No bleeding in the reds.
3. Are there any new advances that you've come across that i should look into as well?
ProRES...that will come with FCP 6. I'll be playing with that codec when I get my hands on it.
4. And, can you be more specific about how you did question # 1. What codec; Does it come with the card or is it in FCP? What VTR do you suggest?
It was really VERY simple. The Kona 3 has an option in the Kona control panel to cross convert 720p to 1080p. We chose that. Then we blacked the first 3 min of the tape, then used EDIT TO TAPE to output. The card did everything. Not sure about the model of the VTR...it was the Sony HDCAM deck (not HDCAM SR).
5. Can i do the above with a BlackMagic card? Which one?
I don't know if any of the Blackmagic cards can cross convert. You'll have to ask them.
6. What am i forgetting to ask?
Where you can send the check for all the workflow advice I am giving to you (and everyone)
Also, how did we deal with our downconverted masters we were also required to deliver. While the network wants an HD master, they don't air HD. They air in SD from a digitbeta master. We had to do a separate output to digibeta with all the graphics properly sized for letterbox output.
Shane

Hdcam workflow

Similar Messages

Maybe you are looking for