Is trim necessary?

Hey, I am looking to buy a Samsung 850 Pro SSD, and have a Late 2011 Macbook Pro running OS X Yosemite 10.10.1. I understand that trim not enabled for use with third party SSD's, in Yosemite and the only way to enable it is to disable kext, which I don't want to do... So, has anyone not used trim and how is the SSD working without it? I've seen and read many other threads about this topic, but I wanted current opinions. If I won't see major performance/life span degradation, then I'll use the SSD without TRIM, otherwise, I just won't get an SSD. I read OWC's SSD has a processor that makes TRIM unnecessary, or not as needed.

So, I know it does degrade life span, but is there any performance loss? Also, I don't want to spend that much to have the SSD break, from no TRIM. On the other hand, there's a 10 year warranty on that SSD, so if it dies within that, they usually replace/cover it, right? I've never used an SSD before, so it's pretty new to me, however, I research everything before I jump into it.

Similar Messages

Enable TRIM on Samsung SSD 840, is it necessary?

This type of question has been asked a lot of times, I know, but I would like to receive some advice from experts.
Few weeks ago I installed my Samsung SSD 840. People say that it's not necessary to enable TRIM for such type of SSD. Others say that it allows to maintain the life of the SSD. So, what do you think about? What way to follow?
Note that in this case TRIM would be enabled by third part apps (TRIM enabler or Chameleon) and not by Apple.
Thank you in adavnce.

TRIM does not improve performance. Do a google search for TRIM and read up on it. Is it necessary and a good thing to have enbled? I say yes it is even if the drive does some garbage collection. If TIRM was not needed or not good for the drive apple would not auto enable it on ssd's that are branded by apple. Neither would windows 7 auto enable trim when windows sees a ssd installed.
mac_giabber wrote:
Kappy,
Thank you for yur reply.
If I enable the TRIM, what about the performance? Will it improve or not? IMHO, this would put an overhead on the SSD. What do you think about?
Thank you again.

Trim marks positioning incorrect for files that have a larger crop box than trim box

I've seen this question in one other place on the forum, but it doesn't look like it ever got answered. It's been driving me nuts for months, so I'm going to try to do a very simple walkthrough for this problem to find out if this is a glitch in the software, or I'm doing something wrong.
When telling Acrobat XI Pro to print a PDF with "Trim Marks," the marks are applied to the "CropBox" instead of the "TrimBox." As far as I'm concerned, this is incorrect behavior. Acrobat 9 Pro, on the other hand, applies the Trim Marks to the TrimBox. Since I receive files with bleed and need to print out a sample on the printer on a regular basis, I have found it necessary to leave Acrobat 9 installed just to print these files. I've done a very simple walkthrough on how to generate a very simple mockup file from InDesign and output it to better illustrate the problem.
I've created a new InDesign document that is 5x7 inches with 1/8" bleed. To make it easier to spot the applicable boxes in the file, I've made a box with a 1/2 point stroke. I made a magenta stroked box that's 5x7 inches to signify the trim, and a cyan stroked box that's 5.25 x 7.25 inches to signify the bleed. I then output it to a high resolution PDF. For the purposes of this example to make sure this can be replicated easily, I'm using the built-in [PDF/X-4:2008] preset to start off with. The only adjustment I'm making to this preset is going to the "Marks and Bleeds" section to check the "Use Document Bleed Settings."
When opening the resulting PDF in Acrobat XI Pro, you can see that the various "Page Boxes" have been applied properly. "CropBox" is set to 0 to include all of the artwork in the file, "BleedBox" is set to 0 since there's nothing outside of the bleed area in this pdf, and "TrimBox" is set to 0.125 in since we gave this file 1/8" bleed. When going to print the file, you can go to "Advanced" and then "Marks and Bleeds" to enable printing with the "Trim Marks." Once you click ok, you can see in the preview image that the trim marks are lining up to the cyan box instead of the magenta box.
As an extra step, it's possible to confirm that the trim marks are going to the crop box and not the bleed box or trim box. If you add a slug to your InDesign document and reoutput the pdf (being sure to include the slug area in the "Marks and Bleeds" section), you will find that the Trim Marks are even further outside of the cyan box. If you output your PDF from InDesign with Trim Marks already applied, you can turn on the Trim Marks option when going to print in Acrobat to see that Acrobat's Trim Marks are going outside of the crop box as well instead of overlapping the ones generated by InDesign.
Is there any fix for this behavior aside from opening the files in Acrobat 9 and printing from there instead?

yes, in the pure definition of the word in the world of print, Crop DOES equal trim...in the exact concept of what YOU see it as.
in Adobe's little bubble, they decided to call the outer box the "Crop" so that they could differentiate between trim and crop in the page box model.
These pictures should help, if not, I'm not going to continue to explain something that you don't want to grasp.
Each picture shows what Acrobat is calling each page box line. since they felt the need to call one trim and one crop, you have to widen your concept of what Adobe is defining "crop" as. Not saying its right, but it is what they are doing, and what is causing the whole issue.
All that aside, if you are not understanding the page box model, then your PDFs are probably not set up this way, so you probably wouldn't even notice the change... So why are you posting on this thread?

Poster Frame and Trim Mode not working properly with post-synced clips

Hi Everyone-
Final Cut Pro seems to be doing something really odd and I'm wondering if anyone else has experienced it and if so what is the fix:
We are shooting a movie on Red with sound coming in on multitrack wav files. We downconvert the R3D files to Prores and then manually sync the tracks in the timeline.
We link the pix and sound and drag them to the bin to make our dailies. They all play, in sync. When we try to set a poster frame the issues begin. If I load the clip into the browser park the playhead on a frame and choose poster frame, the actual frame in the bin is very noticably offset (often by a few seconds).
Also, when I use the trim mode, the frames jump to a different part of the shot during trim. It's like the shot is jumping ahead or back while I hit the frame advance or recede buttons. Once I let go of the button the image jumps to the correct number of frames. But, it's very distracting if I am trying to trim, for example, to just before an actor blinks. I can't trim 1 frame at a time. I have to keep hitting the button, watching the picture jump to a different part of the shot, release the trim button and watch the picture jump back to the now correctly trimmed frame...
As a test I took some of the Prores clips with scratch track sound and brought them into the bin directly from the finder, bypassing the syncing. Using those clips, the trim and poster frames work as expected. Obviously something is going on during syncing.
I assumed maybe because the audio and pix we different lengths the clip was getting "confused", and didn't know where to "start". So, in the timeline with the synced clips, I razor bladed a few shots, linked them, and dragged them to the bin so the audio and video were the exact same length... Same issue.
I have noticed the same behavior on 2 separate Macs so I don't think its a preference or corrupted install issue.
Anyone seen this and have any suggestions?
Thanks,
David

Yes, David, I'm having the same problem under the same circumstances. we're using merged clips made from Prores QTs and multitrk BWF files. In the trim window, the display frame jumps ahead considerably in a frame-by-frame trim, but trims accurately in the timeline. My only work-around has been to use the left/right scrub arrows in the trim window when necessary, which displays the correct frame. Sorry not to have an answer, but I saw a post on another forum from 2007 that speculated it was an FCP 6 bug. Resetting prefs doesn't help.
Tim

Way to trim precomp to current layer time?

I've got an animation pretty much done as far as timing goes and everything. Now I'm going back and editing some things that require adding a few layers to add some things to the current layer that already is trimmed appropriately to the correct time.
Anyone know of a script or something that will create a composition from a layer using the length of the layer's in and out point instead of the whole comp time?
Right now I'm opening the precomp, hitting "i" "b" "o" "n", then right clicking on the comp range bar, choosing trim to comp time. Then I go back to the main comp, move the time back to where the layer previously started and hitting "["
So it all goes by pretty quick, but I consistently have to do that like 20 times. And no, it isn't completely necessary, but if I have to give the file to someone else it makes it Much easier to see what's going on if they can see the actual length of a layer. If you leave it at default it appears the layer is needed for the entire composition.
So, is there a way to script that or something? I usually just need to do something like add some text, simulate a graphic display, or create some fake animated depth of field or something like that. I don't like to add more than one layer per action in the main comp, so if more is needed then i usually precompose it as to not have more than a hundred layers or so for the bulk of the comp.

Thanks, Andy.
Your comment that "just like most of adobe's links, it doesn't work" made me think that you were seeing more than one problem. If you are, please leave comments on the problematic pages. (Go ahead and mention them on this forum, too, if you like.)
I'll go ahead and remove the one that you just mentioned.
The usual way that we cull dead items from the Exchange is to read the comments that people leave on the items in the Exchange. We don't know what to fix if you don't tell us what's broken. Keep in mind that the Exchange is a place for user-submitted content. If a user doesn't maintain their entry, there's not a lot that we can do other than take the entry down.

[solved] Best Practice for SSDs with crypto on it regarding TRIM

Hi,
I was doing some research on this matter but did not find too much information on that that's more useful than confusing.
The setup is the following: I have an SSD (Crucial, Marvell-Controller) with two partitions: a small one for /boot and a bigger one for the rest, which is a LUKS-Container. I left some unpartitioned space at the end of the SSD. I'd like to *not* enable TRIM on the LUKS-device for security purposes.
I was wondering now:
I read that TRIM does reduce the write amplification of garbage collection. But shouldn't the garbage collection do not write at all, but just erase cells with no information on it?
If TRIM helps keeping up performance: do I need to explicitly trim the unpartitioned space? Or does this area behave like the spare area?
If TRIM of the unpartitioned space is necessary: what's the most elegant way to do so?
If someone could shed a little light on this matter, that would help a lot and would be greatly appreciated.
Last edited by Ovion (2015-03-09 19:20:13)

I have the same setup. Crucial SSD, LUKS, TRIM (cron.weekly fstrim). A full hexdump (minus gigabytes of random data) looks like this: https://bpaste.net/raw/505157 (tell me about it)
There is no issue with security. At least, none I care about. So the attacker can see how much free space there is [and where]. The where part is important since lots of small files give a different picture [lots of small free spaces in between] than a single very large file would [no free space in between], assuming there is no fragmentation worth mentioning [which Linux filesystems are usually good at]. So an attacker could probably make some guesses about your amount of data and file sizes. On the other hand I don't see how that's important, in ecryptfs you get this kind of info for free, and I have all sorts of files in all sorts of sizes either way, so it's not a big secret.
The question is, when all it takes to crack your encryption setup is a keylogger or a $5 encryption wrench, does it really matter?
Don't use TRIM on your SSD if you don't want to (there are lots of reasons not to TRIM... like better data recovery chances if you delete something by accident). But don't fool yourself thinking it's somehow really important for your security...
As for unpartitioned space, if it ever was in use before, you need to trim it once. Create a partition on it, then blkdiscard the partition, then delete the partition. That way it's good until it's "in use" again because you dd all over it or had it resynced in a RAID.
Apart from that, TRIM does all the things you said (reduce write amplification, performance, etc. etc.) but it's not like the SSD can't take it if you're not writing 24/7 because it's a database server burning up or something.
Last edited by frostschutz (2015-03-09 19:19:16)

Trim date in database

hi all
how to convert this type of date dd/mm/yyyy to yyyyyddmm ...cause my database read as yyyyyddmm , how to trim it....

cause in database taht date declare as char...
ouch
If you don't have the choice of converting this column to a DATE type, you could do as follows:
1. Create a JDBC connection
2. Select all rows of the respective table, iterate
3. Read date value and check against a regular expression (or a simple indexOf())
4. Convert value if necessary and prepare for an update statement
5. Commit changes.

Dumb question...trim marks

When I send a document to the printer, do I need to place trim marks? Are they necessary? If so, how do I create them?

jiyasa,
It depends on your printer, your way/format of saving the document, your version, and the moon.
So, the answer could be no, just save your document as PDF with bleed outside the Artboard/page, or yes save your document as PDF with Trim Marks and Artboard/page corresponding to the addition of bleed, or something else.
And the meaning of Trim Marks has changed over the versions.

Trim marks??

When I've been working on a brochure lately, all I've done is use the content rectangle (little box with X inside of it until you place a graphic or text, I'm a newb) and place whatever I want in it and pull it roughly a little less than 1/8th an inch beyond the original dimensions of the document (bleeding for the printer) first of all, am I doing this right?
Secondly, do I need to place any kind of trim marks for the printer? I don't even know if InDesign has an option to place them but if they are necessary for the printer, how do I create them?

Wow, a lot to take in. I'll look into that book, lately I've just been learning by what you guys tell me and youtube tutorials. What's sad is that I actually just walked away in december with an associate's degree in graphic design and all I really learned was how to use the lasso tool in photoshop and paste into other adobe programs, bout it. I'm trying to revamp everything I've learned and teach myself because it's taking me days at a time to finish one brochure, it's awful.
So let me see if I have this right, just work on the brochure and then let the document setup do the rest and do bleed about 1/8th an inch or so and then do the crop/trim marks about .15 further than the edge of the bleed? As far as the fold marks, I'm not so sure about that but I'll try to play around with it, maybe do it the same as the crop/trim marks. And then export to PDF? BTW, just out of curiousity why do we export to PDF? Does it retain quality better than the original .indd format?
Thanks again for your help guys!

Do i have to be concerned with TRIM with a 3rd party SSD

Im looking into getting a 3rd party SSD for my late 2008 aluminum unibody macbook
i am under the impression that TRIM is off by default,
Do i need to turn it on?
will it mess up my mac running Yosemite?
can i simply ignore the word TRIM all together ?
thx, jay

TRIM is off by default, because Apple doesn't enable TRIM support for 3rd party SSDs. Each SSD has a different firmware and operates differently and Apple presumably doesn't want to go through a bunch of testing on devices it has never shipped.
It used to be you could use a 3rd party utility called "TRIM enabler," but Apple has improved security in OS X Yosemite and only runs signed kernel extensions by default. TRIM enabler isn't signed so it won't run, unless you disable kernel extension security (I don't recommend this).
SSD firmware has improved over the years and it's debatable whether explicit TRIM support is actually necessary these days. I'd suggest ignoring TRIM and seeing how performance works out. If after 6 months, performance has degraded, then see if there's an easy way to enable it.
That said, the machine is approaching 7 years old, it may be worth looking into a new MacBook Air instead of spending on a new drive

Clean Install Yosemite onto new SSD (Also, what is TRIM?)

Hi,
I've been researching how to replace the Hard Drive on my Late 2011 13inch Macbook Pro (MacBookPro8,1 / 2.4 GHz / Intel Core i5 / SATA III) with a new SSD (maybe a Samsung 840 EVO) and clean install Yosemite onto it. I've found a few ways to do this on the support forums and the macrumors forum, but I want to confirm if I can do it this way:
1. Plug new SSD into the Macbook via a USB cable
2. Download Yosemite onto current Macbook Hard Drive. When I'm prompted to install, chose the new SSD from the list. Complete Installation.
3. Remove old Hard Drive from Macbook and plug new SSD in it's place (and not in the optical bay).
Would this work? I have another external hard drive with all of my documents, pictures and music on which I'm just going to manually remove over, and have no problem doing. I can also download the iLife programs directly from the App Store so I wouldn't be missing out on those either (I do have the iLife '09 discs too). I've also read about creating a bootable USB using DiskMaker X, but I feel the route I outlined would be easier.
Am I missing anything? I do have the EFI Firmware v2.7, so the problems the 2011 MacBooks were having with SATA shouldn't be an issue during this. Also, during my research, I found a references to something called TRIM. Can someone explain TRIM to me?
Thanks,
Steve

Thanks for the response and confirming I can clean install Yosemite onto a new SSD using the process I listed in my initial post.
I have a 13'' MacBook Pro with Yosemite already installed onto it so my graphics card should be set. After almost a month of using it, I haven't noticed any issues on that end.
I guess this TRIM thing is a totally separate subject from this thread. I read Apple is no longer supporting third-party SSD for TRIM support. If you turn it on, but keep a security feature on, you risk your computer not booting correctly. It looks like the only way to have TRIM enabled on a SSD using Yosemite is to have an Apple supplied SSD, or an SSD that can trick Yosemite into thinking it's Apple supplied (like the Angelbird Wrk for Mac SSD).
I've also done a good amount of research that TRIM is only necessary if you're saving a lot of items to the hard drive in one sitting (like photoshop). I primarily use my Mac for Pages (which saves my documents into the cloud now), iTunes and Safari. I guess this would fit me into the "casual user' criteria? I've also read that if you don't use TRIM, your SSD uses "Garbage Collection" (which actually sounds terrible) to keep the SSD informed on what data can be overwritten since it's been deleted by the user. I read that most modern SSD hard drives have a pretty decent Garbage Collection function, so if you leave your computer idle, keep "Put the hard disk(s) to sleep when possible" unchecked, the SSD will run Garbage Collection on it's own and that should be sufficient enough to keep the SSD in good working order.

Trim a single bit from a byte?

OK so im a mechanical guy, not a programming guy so lets start there. I just learned how hexadecimals work and have limited experience in LABview. I have been searching this topic for days, maybe its just my vocabulary but I havent found anything.
I need to analyze a signal coming from a CAN system. I dont have the can device yet but I'm accessing position sensors on the system. They come in as 8-bit hexadecimal messages. I am currently simulating this message as a string in LABview so i can get one part of my program ready. The manufacturer has given me example code that requires concatenating two bytes but I only need 3 of the bits to be concatenated. (one needs the last bit trimmed and the other 2 need the first bit trimed.) I have already concatenated the two bytes necessary but cannot figure out how to get rid of an individual bit. I need to do this as hex values to get the proper measurements. I know my programming grammar is probably a bit off so let me give you an example.
Example String of Hex Values
03 23 F6 21 B4 C4 74 F6
The first sensor requires bits 3 &4 (21 & b4)
In this case they are required to be in the order 4,3 and drop the first bit to receive 421 as the needed hex value. So far I have made an input string to simulate the incoming CAN message with that 8bit hex values. I then use string subset to isolate the individual bytes and finally concatenate to get them in the correct order and end up with B421. I cannot figure out how to drop the "B" bit or replace with a zero. I can only replace the full byte.
Is there an easier way to do this. I plan to use the example VI to receive the CAN messages which outputs to a string, hence why I am using strings.
Thank you in advance for the help. I am going crazy trying to figure this out.
Also if any other details are necessary please let me know

jpc335 wrote:
I was told by the manufacturer that the 3 bit hexadecimal string can then be converted into usable numbers. So if its faster/easier to replace the first byte with a 0 or turn it into a 3 bit hex string. Either will work.
You want to break yourself of this misuse of bit ASAP. A bit is a single 1 or 0. Hex requires 4 bits to find the values. The purpose of hex is to reduce the number of bits you must write out so things are easier to read.
0000 - 0
0001 - 1
1010 - A
1111 - F
When you have two hex digits, you have 8 bits, or a byte. You're talking about two entirely different conversations when you ask how to extract a bit or a byte. It's generally easier to pull out the byte.
You'll also want to be careful with words like "third." You're not looking for the third byte. You're looking for the fourth byte. WIth zero-indexing, it could be the byte at index 3. But, you're creating confusion when you use third to mean fourth.
In terms of solving your problem, it sounds like you're going to have a string of characters. At this point, it's relatively meaningless to view them as hex. The environment sees them as a string and will operate on them as such. You can use string parsing VIs to remove the parts of the string you don't care about. If the format always looks like what you showed us, it wouldn't be hard to traverse through the string by looking for spaces. From there, you'd need to worry about whether you need the values to be in a numeric type or if string is still sufficient. But, you should handle splitting off only the string values representing the two bytes you're worried about. Once you can do that, you can take the next steps.

Enable TRIM on SSD Mac OS X Mountain Lion

I recently purchased and installed a Samsung SSD 840 Pro series on my MacBook Pro. I was reading up on SSDs and I heard something about enabling TRIM and how it makes the SSD last longer. How can I enable TRIM on my SSD on my MacBook Pro that's running Mac OS X Mountain Lion?

TRIM is necessary as SSD have limited writes, so the new written data has to go to a less frequently used spot on the SSD.
It's a real shame Apple doesn't automatically enable TRIM on non-Apple SSD's, it knows when it formats it that it's one as it won't enable scrubbing.
http://www.mactrast.com/2011/07/how-to-enable-trim-support-for-all-ssds-in-os-x- lion/
Secure erase data on a Solid State Drive?

Iphoto .MOV issue - "a necessary data reference could not be resolved" when opening certain videos

I have recently perchaced a brand new Mac Book Pro. The apple store very kindly tranfered everything from my old Mac Book to my new Mac Book Pro. I keep my iphoto library on and external hardrive, which seems to be working fine since I moved everything. BUT..."some' movies won't play from my iphoto library and a window appears saying "a necessary data reference could not be resolved". I can find these videos when I search for them in finder manually (I backed everything up before I transfered everything into a file called TEMP VIDEOS), but why can't my iphoto application find them, like it used to...it still still should right!? Very frustrating.
Please help..
Thanks

Actually this happened to me today and although it would not let me play the file it allowed me to use that same file i had exported from iphotos but could not play and then it allowed me to open it in imovie (you can go to import and then get it from the desktop or wherever) although I made a couple of changes to it the main thing is once you drag it into the space to begin a new project you can then right click and select open in finder and that file actually plays......if its cause i made some changes to it i.e trimmed it slightly then its worth doing so.

How do I turn off the "dynamic trim mode"?

How do I turn off the "dynamic trim mode"? I hate it, hate it, hate it. For those that love it... great. I am glad you do, keep working. I tried to adapt, but it just isn't worth the hassle. For me, I want it gone forever. Too much zooming, no simple ripple delete.
Again, if you love it, great! I want to turn it off, how about me adobe? I am so ready to move back to CS5.

PierreLouisBeranek wrote:
Hi Jim,
You're right. What I wrote isn't the actual problem. My mistake.
The real problem is this:
If I select an edit point with the Selection Tool ('V'), for example, and then change to the Rolling Edit Tool, the cursor doesn't change while hovering over the currently selected edit point, and the only way to use the Rolling Edit Tool on the selected edit point is to first deselect it and then reselect it again. The same problem occurs vice versa.
If you toggle the trim type to "Roll" after selecting the edit with a keyboard shortcut this is not necessary. It might take some getting used to, but see if that works for you.
PierreLouisBeranek wrote:
If I select an edit point's left side (outgoing clip) with the Selection Tool, but then want to select the right side at that same edit point (incoming clip), dragging the cursor over to the right side of the edit point has no effect (i.e. the cursor stubbornly remains a left-pointing arrow for editing the prior clip's out point). The only way to select the right side of the edit point to first deselect the left side (i.e. click on any clip) and then select the right side. The same problem occurs vice versa.
Again, toggle the trim type with a keyboard shortcut (Shift-T is for Windows, Ctrl-T is for Mac), then your tool will appear and behave as expected.
It sounds like you wish to have the Final Cut Pro behavior, where the cursor that is chosen will appear over the edit, regardless of how the edit is selected. Note that here you must click to select the edit with the proper trim type before you drag the tool.
In Premiere Pro, the cursor will not change to the selected tool unless the edit is selected with the corresponding trim type. If you want to click and drag the trim tools as you did with Final Cut Pro, yes, you must deselect the selected edit point first.
Anyone can send me a PM at any time. I'm your representative to the Premiere Pro team.

Is trim necessary?

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