On Threads, Pools and other beasts

I'm seeing some unexpected behaviours in our production system relating to
(AFAICS) threads and connection pools, and hope you could bring some info
about them.
Our system is built over 4 PIII Xeon processors under Linux.
We do currently have this configuration:
15 threads for the "default" queue and 10 for an special servlet one, we
decided to separate threads in two queues in order to assure our users get
always a thread besides what the rest of the system is "doing".
Even we do not have a lot of users (about 20 or so) they do generate a lot
of load as for the bussiness logic inherent to the application.
For sample, so you can understand what goes with practically any user
"action", think on this.
After a user "confirms" some data via a servlet and after executing the data
validation and bussines rules some messages are sent via JMS to the
"asynchronous" part of the system (that is running in the same weblogic
instance). After commiting the user transaction an thus releasing the
servlet thread, so it can be used by the same or other user, JMS messages
are delivered to MDBs that must transform information from on-line (servlet)
processes in different ways so they can be stored onto other systems, i.e.
into a mainframe, into an XML DB and possibly into another RDBMS. Our
configuration is that there can be as much as 10 MDB of each type (I mean
for each kind of "action" of a servlet) running concurrently and as you can
suppose those processes do take some time to communicate with destination
systems and perform their work.
We end at last with a lot of concurrent processes in our system that ends
some time with the users complaining about system responsiveness.
After all this explanation I would like to know if 25 threads for
"background" and on-line processes is too low (as I'm afraid they are). The
problem is we can't seem to increase the number of threads without being
very careful with JDBC connection pools.
Currently we have two connection pools. We do demarcate transactions in the
clients (servlets, batch processes) we have a "transacted" pool and a "non
transacted" one.
We are delegating persistence to the contanier (formally in our case we are
using TopLink persistence and it uses in it's deployment descriptor both
types of pools)
Our configuration is as follows:
Oracle pool NON Tx 60 connections
Oracle pool Tx 30 connections
initially we create 5 connections for each pool with an increment of 5 for
each one too.
From the tests I have made I have discovered that setting more threads than
the minimum amount of pools yields to this exception:
weblogic.common.ResourceException: No available connections in pool
myNonTxPool
at
weblogic.common.internal.ResourceAllocator.reserve(ResourceAllocator.java:57
8)
at
weblogic.common.internal.ResourceAllocator.reserve(ResourceAllocator.java:40
5)
at
weblogic.common.internal.ResourceAllocator.reserveNoWait(ResourceAllocator.j
ava:373)
at
weblogic.jdbc.common.internal.ConnectionPool.reserve(ConnectionPool.java:165
at
weblogic.jdbc.common.internal.ConnectionPool.reserveNoWait(ConnectionPool.ja
va:126)
at
weblogic.jdbc.common.internal.RmiDataSource.getPoolConnection(RmiDataSource.
java:194)
at
weblogic.jdbc.common.internal.RmiDataSource.getConnection(RmiDataSource.java
:219)
the behaviour I would expect is that in case a thread needs a connection and
there isn't any one available the thread may be blocked and it would receive
the connecion once one is released, of course as I can see in the stack the
ConnectionPool.reserveNoWait() method is behaving just the other way.
The main problem with this is that as you can see we are "forced" to spend
90 (60+30) connections to the DB (even we will never use more than 25
(15+10) simultaneously just because we must assure that at least there is
one "reserved" connection to each thread.
Our DBA thinks that it can't be possible that we spend such number of
connections that could be taken by another application(s) (as the DB is
shared with other apps)
Currently our DB system is not set as "multithreaded" so each connection
created against the DB is a process on the system and of course they are a
really scarce resource.
My question is. What would be a "fine" number of threads for an application
like this that is mainly "background-batch processing" but assuring on-line
users have their threads always available?
I have just another doubt (maybe this is not the right thread to ask for it
but...) how does the UserTransaction actually works? I mean, is the
connection given to the thread (and thus extracted from pool) as soon as the
thread begin it's work? or is it given in the instant of "commiting" to the
DB. I know maybe using TopLink changes default Weblogic CMP behaviour but I
would like to know what the "default" Weblogic behaviour is; and, what
happens when you don't start a transaction in the client and total execution
time exceeds 30 seconds? I have seen a rollback due to "exceeding" those 30
seconds althought I'm sure we do not open any transaction, what kind of
"transaction" is that? Is just a way of Weblogic to assure a thread is not
"locked" more than a certain period of time so the system never "stalls"?
Thanks in advance.
Regards.
Ignacio.

Hi Ignacio,
See my answer inline.
"Ignacio G. Dupont" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
I'm seeing some unexpected behaviors in our production system relating to
(AFAICS) threads and connection pools, and hope you could bring some info
about them.
Our system is built over 4 PIII Xeon processors under Linux.
We do currently have this configuration:
15 threads for the "default" queue and 10 for an special servlet one, weThat numbers defines number of concurrent requests services
associated with that queues can handle. If monitoring CPU utilization
shows that CPU load is not high, let say less than 90%, - you can increase
that numbers.
decided to separate threads in two queues in order to assure our users get
always a thread besides what the rest of the system is "doing".
Even we do not have a lot of users (about 20 or so) they do generate a lot
of load as for the bussiness logic inherent to the application.>
For sample, so you can understand what goes with practically any user
"action", think on this.[eaten]
We end at last with a lot of concurrent processes in our system that ends
some time with the users complaining about system responsiveness.You will have to run a load test in your QA environment and play with queue
sizes. In addition, you may want to run a profiler (like JProbe or
OptimizeIt)
for maximum load to find if there are bottlenecks in the application.
After all this explanation I would like to know if 25 threads for
"background" and on-line processes is too low (as I'm afraid they are).The
It all depends of the usage pattern. I'd say that for a production
environment
with any noticeable load, it's low.
problem is we can't seem to increase the number of threads without being
very careful with JDBC connection pools.Yes, you will have to increase size of the pools to match maximum
number of ongoing transactions. Minimum would be a number of execution
threads. Actual number should be determined either by load testing or
by setting it to a guaranteed high level.
Currently we have two connection pools. We do demarcate transactions inthe
clients (servlets, batch processes) we have a "transacted" pool and a "non
transacted" one.
We are delegating persistence to the contanier (formally in our case weare
using TopLink persistence and it uses in it's deployment descriptor both
types of pools)
Our configuration is as follows:
Oracle pool NON Tx 60 connections
Oracle pool Tx 30 connections
initially we create 5 connections for each pool with an increment of 5 for
each one too.
From the tests I have made I have discovered that setting more threadsthan
the minimum amount of pools yields to this exception:That's quite natural.
weblogic.common.ResourceException: No available connections in pool
myNonTxPool[eaten]
the behaviour I would expect is that in case a thread needs a connectionand
there isn't any one available the thread may be blocked and it wouldreceive
That would lock exec threads very quickly. A connection pool is a vital
resource that is to be available constantly. So weblogic uses fail-fast
approach so that you can adjust setting to match highest load.
the connecion once one is released, of course as I can see in the stackthe
ConnectionPool.reserveNoWait() method is behaving just the other way.>
The main problem with this is that as you can see we are "forced" to spend
90 (60+30) connections to the DB (even we will never use more than 25
(15+10) simultaneously just because we must assure that at least there is
one "reserved" connection to each thread.That's right.
Our DBA thinks that it can't be possible that we spend such number of
connections that could be taken by another application(s) (as the DB is
shared with other apps)I don't think it's a correct observation. Oracle can be configured to handle
more connections. I saw weblogic pools configured to handle 200
connections.
Currently our DB system is not set as "multithreaded" so each connection
created against the DB is a process on the system and of course they are a
scarce resource.Application demand for resources should be satisfied.
My question is. What would be a "fine" number of threads for anapplication
like this that is mainly "background-batch processing" but assuringon-line
users have their threads always available?It should be high enough to satisfy requirement to handle given number
of concurrent requests processed on given hardware. Normally this
is determined by load testing and gradual increase of this number
to the point where you see that hardware (seen as CPU load)
cannot handle it. Buy the way this point sometimes is unreachable
as application becomes DB-bound, i.e. bottleneck is shifted to
the database.
I have just another doubt (maybe this is not the right thread to ask forit
but...) how does the UserTransaction actually works? I mean, is the
connection given to the thread (and thus extracted from pool) as soon asthe
thread begin it's work? or is it given in the instant of "committing" tothe
It's given when a connection, assuming it's obtained from TxDatasource,
is requested.
DB. I know maybe using TopLink changes default Weblogic CMP behavior but I
would like to know what the "default" Weblogic behavior is; and, what
happens when you don't start a transaction in the client and totalexecution
time exceeds 30 seconds? I have seen a rollback due to "exceeding" those30
seconds although I'm sure we do not open any transaction, what kind of
"transaction" is that? Is just a way of Weblogic to assure a thread is notFor instance, stateful session beans are transactional.
"locked" more than a certain period of time so the system never "stalls"?Basically, no, it's not. There is no way to "unlock" thread after certain
period.
So when a queue has finished processing, TX monitor checks the timeout,
and if there is one, issues a corresponding rollback. So, it's possible
for thread to run for 10 hours if the timeout is 30 seconds.
Since 7.0 weblogic is capable of detecting such situations so that
administrator can be informed about it and required actions can be
taken [on application side].
Hope this helps.
Regards,
Slava Imeshev

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Disregarding what it is for, in my experience, tuning this setting rarely has much effect. For 6.1, the main thread pool related tunables to look at are the EJB thread pools and EJB max-beans... settings, the "default" thread pool, and the internal thread-pool for stand-alone clients -- all of which are mentioned in the performance guide.

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Boy am I just flooded with just 6.1 migration issues. Life was much
simpler with weblogic.properties file.
Looking at Config.Dtd I couldnt see the different thread pools that WLS
5.1 offered.
How do I do set up thread pools for
a) Servlets
b) RMI
c) JMS
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In 6.1
There isn't any seperate execute ThreadPool for servlets.
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see below
http://e-docs.bea.com/wls/docs61/perform/AppTuning.html#1105201
Kumar
Aswin Dinakar wrote:
Boy am I just flooded with just 6.1 migration issues. Life was much
simpler with weblogic.properties file.
Looking at Config.Dtd I couldnt see the different thread pools that WLS
5.1 offered.
How do I do set up thread pools for
a) Servlets
b) RMI
c) JMS
In 5.1 you had a servletthreadpool, an executethreadcount(for RMI) and a
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